Advice on an akward situation

So my family was friends with this other family whose twin girls were a little older than my daughter but developmentally behind due to being born extremely premature. Friends for most of the kid's lives, over three years. We were really close for awhile, then the mom went through some stuff, including a divorce, and we helped as much as we could. Eventually she said we were like family, and our daughter was like a sister to her kids.

Then she started dating a married man, her boss, who has a son with his wife. She didn't tell me for awhile, and I tried to be supportive after she did, but I also felt like we were close enough that I could be honest with her about what I thought of the situation and if nothing else we'd find a way to keep our kids friends. So she got pissed at me, naturally, but she did say she wanted our kids to be friends. This was back in Feb. I asked advice about it here I think, then.

Fast forward awhile and there's been other stuff. I've really tried to keep our kids friends, and she really hasn't, and before I realized it we were at the point where me sending her emails was unwelcome. A few weeks ago there was a county fair, and I texted her a few times (six over two days) about it, and she didn't respond. By coincidence we ran into her with the married guy there. I shook his hand, let my daughter play with the girls (His wife took his son to another state), and just stayed out of the way. Then my wife and the mom went on the little train at the same time, with her more developed twin and my daughter also aboard. During this trip the dude comes up to me, sets the less developed little girl on his foot, and proceeds to threaten me. Red faced, angry, saying he's going to get his brother and law and come down to my house.

In the middle of all this he says I stalked the mom's sister.

Quite honestly I responded the wrong way, because I didn't take him seriously at all. I just barely kept from laughing at him, shouting crazy stuff at me at a kid's event with a five year old sitting on his foot. It just made him more angry, naturally, but in the end I wished him a good day, shook his hand (He hilariously tried to squeeze my hand as hard as he could manage) and walked away. When the wife and my kid got back I told them both not to talk to them again, and there was an exchange of emails with the mom amounting to 'don't contact me again and I won't contact you again.' The mom also says the thing about stalking the sister. I figure too bad, they had cool kids, but it's over.

Today I saw the dude driving through my neighborhood. Twice. I know he lost his house, and he might even be living somewhere close. There are mutual friends, the girls have trick or treated in our neighborhood the last few years, etc. So the advice I need is; how seriously should I take this guy's threat knowing that he's around my neighborhood, where my daughter plays outside all the time?

To clarify the thing with the sister I... really can't clarify it. I have no idea what they mean. I was friends with the sister (Who is married, I was friends with her husband too as far as I'm concerned) when I was friends with the family, sent her some emails from six months ago to last year, but after the disagreement I defriended her on facebook and let things peter out. I did her a favor with her (failed) business that I continued to do for awhile after the end of the friendship, but this is a woman that I never called once, never been to her house, haven't seen her since Feb. of last year, and the last contact I had with her was to wish her happy birthday in June (She said 'thanks, who is this?') by text.

:egypt:

Take the threat seriously. He is driving around very close to where you live, and you can't be sure why. As the old adage goes, hope for the best and prepare for the worst. At the very least, make sure to keep an eye on your children. Call the police or a lawyer if he threatens you again or if you see him watching your house. I presume you live in America - if you do, get a firearm and learn how to use it only in self-defence (and pray you don't have to).

You have a family. Do not take any chances.

I am guessing his wife doesn't know about the affair, or does she?

erm. Well, only so much a guy can do. I mean, you could talk with your local police precinct, and see if they have any insights. It's obvious this guy is just trying to be "intimidating" to you, since he hasn't confronted you yet, chances are he'll never confront you. But, you do have a family, and that raises some concerns with me. Basically, the most you can do is maybe file a restraining order, but it may or may not be denied, and really, if a person is serious about fulfilling a threat, a restraining order will only make them feel as though they've been pushed harder. Your best bet is if you see him driving around, is to walk out, and let him know you know what's goin on, and you're not going to be intimidated. Eventually, as all Bully's are cowards, and he's got too much to lose at this point to try anything, he'll go away and hopefully without having to pay court fees.

Take the threat seriously and report what happened to the police including him cruising your neighborhood. One can never tell what irrational crazy thing some people are capable of doing. Hopefully, when the cops talk to him, he'll realize that he'll be the first one the authorities come looking for if something happens, and he'll back off.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

I am guessing his wife doesn't know about the affair, or does she?

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I don't know, I never met his wife. I know she has the kid and they're in a state far away, which might tend to make anybody a little crazy.

I have been considering reporting him coming through the neighborhood to the police, but the second time I caught his eye and he just nodded his head. I do wonder if bringing the police in might not trigger him to escalate matters. He is a gun owner, heck, practically everyone is here (I am as well) but I genuinely don't want believe it would come to that point. The man has a son who has played with my daughter. I've shaken his hand and looked in his eyes. If he's planning to be that crazy all I can do is wait and respond in kind.

I can definitely say I don't have enough grounds for a restraining order, and if by some chance he lives in the neighborhood, or is staying with someone here, it couldn't possibly do any good anyway.

I appreciate all your advice, I truly need some outside perspective on the situation.

:egypt:

Woah, what a psychological mess this situation...

So all the bad things started when you told her what you think of her dating this guy? OK maybe that was a bit too close to her personal attitude, but I generally don't get why most people don't seem to be able to appreciate someone who's actually telling them what they truely think instead of just yessing them. And then she must have told the guy some really weird story. I think most of the weird stories that women tipically make up contain some kind of stalking, the reason being that it will mostly have the desired effect... But that doesn't help you atm.

So it's up to your personal feeling towards the situation. Is he really threatening you? Or is it just coincidence that he drives along there, and you just think he would be threatening you because of his really awkward behaviour on that occasion?

I say show him that you noticed him and other than that, leave him alone. Watch the development of things closely and contact an able lawyer if necessary. To my understanding there won't be much the police could do. Oh and ask your mutual friends if the guy lives around your place or has business there, to clarify things (don't mention your suspect of course).

If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off.

You should have cut that woman out of you life when it began to sour way back when. You or your family don't need this burden.

I have started to cut stuff from my life which have bugged me for years. I.e. out-of work positions, voluntary stuff. Anything that puts a weight on your shoulders which do not involve your livelihood (income) or your close family are really just unwanted burdens. You don't need them and they will only shorten your life.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off.

You should have cut that woman out of you life when it began to sour way back when. You or your family don't need this burden.

I have started to cut stuff from my life which have bugged me for years. I.e. out-of work positions, voluntary stuff. Anything that puts a weight on your shoulders which do not involve your livelihood (income) or your close family are really just unwanted burdens. You don't need them and they will only shorten your life.

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yes

Dude,

Honestly shes told this guy a whole heap of poison about you, and hes trying to be the BIG man. pfft

Never contact her, him or the sister by email , text or otherwise ever again

after all what was his big demand - stop stalking - Im not saying you are, but crazy wierd insecure people can interpret any contact in wierd ways - dont give them an excuse

if you cut all contact - and you see the guy near your house call the cops - its not illeagal for dudes to drive around a neighbourhood

problem solved

if he comes on your land - blow him away - if you think you can

the family must be protected from your poor choice in friends

personally Im very choosy about who is allowed inside the inner circle of my home and loved ones

[edit] you shoulda cut her loose as soon as the mariage disintergrated - cause whos to say what sort of trash the cat will drag in - I mean my first thought reading your story was she brings back some guy who starts fiddling with the girls - you know uncle jo whos a bit too firendly with the children - you cant allow strangers within the personal contact of your family dude full stop

I'd say wait and see. If it's an option, maybe take a holiday with the family a bit further down the line, and see if there are developments on your return, but definitely break off contact with the whole opposite team, they have so many issues you just don't want to prod that bear...

I don't think you have grounds for legal action, unless he threatened you in front of witnesses which i assume is not the case, so just keep your eyes open, make your wife (slightly) aware of the situation (you don't want to freak her out and keep kids on a leash either...) Pity on the kids though. I guess there's always a new generation of gamblers and alcoholics.

Ugh. . .It's a shame that this has effected your child's friendship with the other children. However, I'd have to second the whole cut ties completely suggestion.

You tried to help this woman and her children, but now she wants you and your family not to have contact. It sounds like she has made some poor choices, and unfortunately dragged her kids into it, but until those kids are 18, emancipated minors, the Father gets custody or DSS intervenes, she has final say in their affairs.

As someone else said, it sounds like "Iron-grip" is trying to be the new adulterous alpha-male. Another poor decision, but there's not much to be done on your end. You have to place the safety of your own family first. So respect the other family's wishes, even if they did it in a stupid and ignorant way, and cut them out completely.

As for "Iron-grip" cruising your neighborhood, it could be coincidence. Unless he directly threatens you or your family again or comes onto your property there isn't grounds for police involvement. But if you ever do feel threatened, I'd listen to your instincts and call the police. Better to err on the side of caution.

You could consult with a lawyer to see what would meet the requirements for a restraining order or police involvement.

If you and your family do see them in public again, I'd just nod politely and move on.

Stay safe. What that entails is up to you.

If there was no family, I would bait him.

Since he lost his house he has nothing to lose. Creepy stuff good luck.

Cut off all ties. From what I understand, you probably should have done that much earlier, but it's never easy (or maybe even impossible) to make a satisfying decision in such complicated situations.

If that man has a reason to drive in your neighbourhood, then I wouldn't be too paranoid about it. He lost his house, maybe he moved to your neighbourhood, maybe he now lives with that woman (I assume she lives not too far away from you) or visits her regularly. Just nod friendly when you see him and ignore him for the rest. I would only consider further steps if it becomes really weird (e.g. he drives by your house 10 times a day).

Mind you that if he has no intention to physically harm you, that contacting a lawyer or calling the police could be seen as a declaration of war by him and might provoke him to actually do you some harm (phyisically or by playing childish games like calling the police himself and telling them that you are the one stalking him).

The man's an idiot (dating another woman (his own employee) while still being married + getting angry at you and yelling at you in front of little children because of some made up stories = QED).

Idiots are a waste of time. Ignore him as best as you can.

While I think it's weird, I'd avoid doing anything stupid such as:

- calling the cops
- getting a lawyer
- getting a gun

That is, as long as things stay that way. Ignore the guy, ignore your weird former friend. After some time, they'll get bored about it and will simply forget you.
If he starts driving by your house 10 times a day, then yes, you should consider doing something. Until then, I'd avoid giving him more reasons to get angry, not because he's right or scary, but because dealing with idiots is an unecassary burden.

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

- getting a gun

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At the risk of turning this into a backroom thread, there is nothing that should stop him getting one for self-defence. It doesn't matter though, since he already has one.

I would go berserk literally if anyone would threaten my family. :furious3:

In this case, do not take any risks. Since you have a gun, you took a first step. Take a look on your children always when they play, you never know what that freak has in mind. Taking revenge on children is the easiest thing to do and the one which will anger the parents the most, so take care on that one. Especially when they are your children.

Don't risk. If you see the guy anywhere near your children, react, but not aggressively. Stand firm by your side and let him subtly understand you'll take action if he keeps doing like that.

Contact your lawyer for advice if you wish, but always keep on a look out.
Don't contact the police yet because he might react and you never know. Keep it quiet, ignore him, smile at him if he looks at you, but that's it. Don't overdo it or else he will react.

And react only when necessary.

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

I would go berserk literally if anyone would threaten my family. :furious3:

In this case, do not take any risks. Since you have a gun, you took a first step. Take a look on your children always when they play, you never know what that freak has in mind. Taking revenge on children is the easiest thing to do and the one which will anger the parents the most, so take care on that one. Especially when they are your children.

Don't risk. If you see the guy anywhere near your children, react, but not aggressively. Stand firm by your side and let him subtly understand you'll take action if he keeps doing like that.

Contact your lawyer for advice if you wish, but always keep on a look out.
Don't contact the police yet because he might react and you never know. Keep it quiet, ignore him, smile at him if he looks at you, but that's it. Don't overdo it or else he will react.

And react only when necessary.

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Are you trying to scare the guy? No. If the guy steps foot on his property, gun him down, otherwise let dead dogs lie. The threats, the driving around, it's an instinctual habit that most men have used at one point or another, trying to be the alpha male. Obviously, Ramses isn't going to play that game, and eventually this guy will understand that. I severely doubt this guy has any intention of dragging kids into the game, it's not the right MO, since they tend to stick to the shadows and make their presence as little known as possible.

Are you serious about "gunning him down"?

Wow, lads... The poor sod did nothing so far! Just remember that. There's absolutely no reason to get into hysteria. Chances are, he has good reasons to drive around there. Just ignore him, as I stated before, and as Ramses mentioned "mutual friends", ask this friends secretively about the guy. Information is the key.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

At the risk of turning this into a backroom thread, there is nothing that should stop him getting one for self-defence. It doesn't matter though, since he already has one.

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I point you to this :

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No. If the guy steps foot on his property, gun him down

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Are you really advising Ramses to kill some guy because said guy got angry at him? Is that how far he should go? The guy steps on his property, and then 'bam', because he happens to drive by at some point during the day? Furthermore, it seems that the other guy has been told quite a lot of crap, which eventually gives him really good reasons to be worried and angry.

I thought civilization relied on things such as discussion, negociation and what not, rather than shoting other people whenever something might go not according to the plan.

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

I point you to this :



Are you really advising Ramses to kill some guy because said guy got angry at him? Is that how far he should go? The guy steps on his property, and then 'bam', because he happens to drive by at some point during the day? Furthermore, it seems that the other guy has been told quite a lot of crap, which eventually gives him really good reasons to be worried and angry.

I thought civilization relied on things such as discussion, negociation and what not, rather than shoting other people whenever something might go not according to the plan.

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1) That post was made after your post.
2) You're using an example of hyperbole.
3) Do you really think Ramses will do that?
4) In self-defence or defence of his family it is perfectly appropriate to use it, and he is a sensible enough person to use it only in that situation.
5) Boy Scout motto. Always be prepared.

Just to calm things down, the only way I'd use a weapon was in self defense. The guy has not been on my property and his threats didn't directly extend to my family, IMHO he just got mad and said the usual macho nonsense you'd expect directed at me. Although I did think the thing about his brother in law was pretty strange.

I wasn't much concerned until I found him actually driving in the neighborhood, and as long as it doesn't become some creepy kind of pattern I expect him to go back to where ever he's staying and worry a lot more about his son not being there with him than about whatever crazy stuff he believes about me.

I also don't want this to be a bash session. I disagree with the choices he and the mom have made, but I thought of them as friends on the wrong path all the way up until he decided to go off the deep end. Now they're pretty much just strangers that I know waaaay too much about.

So I thank you all for your advice. I think the wait and see course is really the only one right now. If he and the rest of their family just stay clear of me and mine there should be plenty of room in this town for us all. I'm not even mad about it, I just think it's a very strange episode in my life and I'm hoping it's over. The times I've seen them since that threat, and the things the woman said to me via email made me feel personally harassed. Like she implied that her kids and his son would be at my daughter's school next year, and they might spread rumors about me behind my back. Juvenile stuff, but still, I didn't get how things went from 'let's keep our kids friends' to 'you stalked my sister,' you know?

I was somewhat hoping someone might've had a similar experience and could offer advice from that base. It's a situation pretty much completely outside my experience.

:egypt:

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

I point you to this :



Are you really advising Ramses to kill some guy because said guy got angry at him? Is that how far he should go? The guy steps on his property, and then 'bam', because he happens to drive by at some point during the day? Furthermore, it seems that the other guy has been told quite a lot of crap, which eventually gives him really good reasons to be worried and angry.

I thought civilization relied on things such as discussion, negociation and what not, rather than shoting other people whenever something might go not according to the plan.

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Absolutely Not. :laugh4: If things were turn ugly (physically), and self defense was required. He should go for it, but that can apply to anyone. The point I was trying to make was chances are this 'grudge' this guy has, if indeed that is what it is, and isn't coincidental. Ramses should let the guy puff out his chest like a gorilla, until he gets tired of it, and he will, instead of stirring the pot by bringing in more drama into an already bad situation.