Two Pontos questions.

Greets to you all, fellow EBers. Please note that I do not want to criticize any of the creator's decisions regarding the correct representation of the kingdom of Pontos , it's more of a perhaps false belief of mine but:
1) I always thought that Pontos was a dynasty of Persian nobles who spoke Greek from day 1 since they were "conquered" by Alexander however on the battlefield they do not give orders in Greek but they share the same language as the Pahlava, Armenians and perhaps a few more factions.
2)I am pretty sure that Pontos army was bolstered with a number of Seleukid klerouchoi during their conquest of Anatolia however once again they can not recruit klerouchoi phalangitai.

So am I mistaken or was this supposed to be "corrected" through a newer version of EB1 but never quite made it.

Thanks for your time.

hey fraoula,

no idea and suggestion for the first question

but you can get those better equipped phanlagitai in Ipsos and the city north of Halicarnassus (Tarsus?) with a lvl4 regional mic. the do a better job than the pantodapoi are less cost-intensive than the elite ones but I for my self find a silver'chevroned pandodapoi' better than those, at least in puncto valuability.

cheers and have fun with the Kianos and Herakleotes families - they rock the field.

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Originally Posted by Hotseat_User

hey fraoula,

no idea and suggestion for the first question

but you can get those better equipped phanlagitai in Ipsos and the city north of Halicarnassus (Tarsus?) with a lvl4 regional mic. the do a better job than the pantodapoi are less cost-intensive than the elite ones but I for my self find a silver'chevroned pandodapoi' better than those, at least in puncto valuability.

cheers and have fun with the Kianos and Herakleotes families - they rock the field.

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Really? Thank you I did not know that. Well it's not so much for game play reasons. I tend to find the phalangitai way too overpowered to use plus I prefer something a bit more versatile given that I rely almost solely on infantry and can't use hammer and anvil tactics. It is the first campaign with Pontos I actually enjoy. Thankfully I only fight the AS and Makedonians and not all of my neighbours as many of my previous campaigns. I can't believe that Hayasdan are still allied to me and that I share a border with the Ptolemaioi and they have not attacked me for about 20 years.

I am not aware of the exact recruitment zones, but aren't the chalkaspides simply the Pontic equivalent of kleruch phalangites? They are a bit better equipped and have slightly lower morale, but they would be recruited from the same base population.

I can't answer the language question, other than guessing that the team may not have gotten round to implementing a Persian voice-mod.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

I am not aware of the exact recruitment zones, but aren't the chalkaspides simply the Pontic equivalent of kleruch phalangites? They are a bit better equipped and have slightly lower morale, but they would be recruited from the same base population.

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No, Chalkaspides are the equivalent of Agryaspides, they are meant to be an elite phalanx. However, they have less morale and lower stats in general than any of the other elite phalanxes. In fact their stats are more comparable to the Pezhetairoi than to Agryaspides, although they are still better than Pezhetairoi. They are also significantly better than Klerouchoi Phalangitai in both attack, defense, and morale. Chalkaspides are a bit unique as elite phalanxes in that they are more of a part-time levy than anything else (albeit a well-trained, well-equipped, motivated, and effective one). The soldiers expect to serve in the summer and be released in time for the harvest. So, in that respect they do share some parallels to the Klerouchoi Phalangitai I guess, in that the Klerouchoi Phalangitai expect land grants in return for service. But the situation is a bit different, the Chalkaspides don't get land grants as far as I can tell, they simply expect to go back to their farms in the fall.

Pontos does have access to Klerouchoi Phalangitai, I'm not sure of the exact AOR, but I do know that they are a regional unit for Pontos, not a factional unit. However, since you do not have access to Pezhetairoi, you may have to rely on them as your medium phalanx. Unless, of course, you decide to make your entire phalanx line be Chalkaspides, but considering they are a technically an elite unit I don't know how historically accurate that would be.

Yeah I konw. I tend not to use elites in great numbers cause it is both non-historical and non-gameplay wise.
Also I was not refering to the stats of each unit as to its way of recruitment and status in society.
For example, the Makedonian pezhetairoi were the equivalent of the classical greece hoplites. Citizens of a kingdom or city with full political rights such as electing officials for the army and infuencing foreign policies (war, peace, trade etc.) The klerouchoi on the other hand were mostly of greek and makedonian orgin and were given land for service as we all know , but did not have any political rights and were often switching sides in order too keep that land when it was conquered by a foreign power.
Given that the chalkaspides were an elite and the name of the unit was used as a makedonian pez. veterans I suppose that they are the the Pontic equivalent of pez. or argyraspidai in the game.
Finally I have checked the recruitment viewer and yes,the klerouchoi are recruitable through regional MICs so once again I must thank the fellow members from the previous posts for pointing that out.

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Originally Posted by WinsingtonIII

No, Chalkaspides are the equivalent of Agryaspides, they are meant to be an elite phalanx.

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I stand corrected.
:bow:

Expect the Chalkaspides to given a little overhaul in EB2.

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Originally Posted by Krusader

Expect the Chalkaspides to given a little overhaul in EB2.

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Now that sounds ... interresting. Can we accept to see anything of it in the upcoming preview?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoezvmZZ440

A cookie for those that remembers MIB.

@HunGeneral: It's expect, not accept. Since you were correcting spelling anyway. :grin3: I would be interested in that, too.

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the do a better job than the pantodapoi are less cost-intensive than the elite ones but I for my self find a silver'chevroned pandodapoi' better than those, at least in puncto valuability.

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Depends on the challenge. Sometimes it is better to have the Pandas because of their AP secondaries (although they are useless on walls).

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However, they have less morale and lower stats in general than any of the other elite phalanxes. In fact their stats are more comparable to the Pezhetairoi than to Agryaspides, although they are still better than Pezhetairoi.

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They are basically identical to the Makedonian Heavy Phalanx (Hysteroi Pezhetairoi), stat wise.

actually, iirc, Pontos was never penetrated by Alexander. as of language i thought they speak Greek in game, and so do the Armenians?

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Originally Posted by Sarkiss

actually, iirc, Pontos was never penetrated by Alexander. as of language i thought they speak Greek in game, and so do the Armenians?

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Of course they were not penetrated by Alexander. I said "conquered" because they accepted Alexander as their conqueror-liberator pretty much like the Judeans or the Egyptians.
However they do not give orders in Greek. If you select the Gen. Bodyguard they speak in Persian(?) even after the Pontikoi Strategoi reform. Same for the Armenians altough that is not wrong.

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Originally Posted by fraoula

Of course they were not penetrated by Alexander. I said "conquered" because they accepted Alexander as their conqueror-liberator pretty much like the Judeans or the Egyptians.
However they do not give orders in Greek. If you select the Gen. Bodyguard they speak in Persian(?) even after the Pontikoi Strategoi reform. Same for the Armenians altough that is not wrong.

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As heirs to the Achaemenid (SP?) throne, these two aforementioned factions rightfully speak Persian when you click on their bodyguards.

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Originally Posted by fraoula

Of course they were not penetrated by Alexander. I said "conquered" because they accepted Alexander as their conqueror-liberator pretty much like the Judeans or the Egyptians.
However they do not give orders in Greek. If you select the Gen. Bodyguard they speak in Persian(?) even after the Pontikoi Strategoi reform. Same for the Armenians altough that is not wrong.

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Yes it is wrong. Armenians are not Persian, and do not speak Farsi. Armenians speak Armenian, which is an independent branch of the Indo-European language tree, with the closest relative being Greek. The reason they speak Farsi in the game, is because it is a place holder until We finish off an Armenian voice mod (which foot and I had been working on before EB1 was released)

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Originally Posted by artavazd

Yes it is wrong. Armenians are not Persian, and do not speak Farsi. Armenians speak Armenian, which is an independent branch of the Indo-European language tree, with the closest relative being Greek. The reason they speak Farsi in the game, is because it is a place holder until We finish off an Armenian voice mod (which foot and I had been working on before EB1 was released)

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Arto have you two finished that by the way? I was wondering if it was going to be released...

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Originally Posted by vartan

Arto have you two finished that by the way? I was wondering if it was going to be released...

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most likely for EB2

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Originally Posted by artavazd

most likely for EB2

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Thanks axper. Looking forward to it. (It's about time we hear something familiar xD )

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Originally Posted by vartan

Thanks axper. Looking forward to it. (It's about time we hear something familiar xD )

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I know. I just dont want people on this forum to be mislead and think that the Farsi (language of the Persians) is the native tounge of Armenians. Hopefuly people read my post and understand that it is just a placeholder :)

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Originally Posted by artavazd

I know. I just dont want people on this forum to be mislead and think that the Farsi (language of the Persians) is the native tounge of Armenians. Hopefuly people read my post and understand that it is just a placeholder :)

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Oops. My bad. Thanks for the clarification.

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Originally Posted by artavazd

most likely for EB2

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aye! what would it be, grakan, ashkharabar? or can you make it grabar by any chance?

vartan, why do you write axper, when it should be akhper? just curios. i've seen that the same way nakharar, gets written as naxarar. that make things more confusing for those who dont speak the language and isnt correct.

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Originally Posted by fraoula

Of course they were not penetrated by Alexander. I said "conquered" because they accepted Alexander as their conqueror-liberator pretty much like the Judeans or the Egyptians.

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i said penetrated for a reason for that would involve a deeper degree of influence. he did not penetrate into Armenia either, it was ruled by proxy and "conquered" only on paper, so to speak. local dynasts remain in power and no foreign garrisons were stationed etc. that in its turn did not have the same after effect as we can observe in Persia itself were large Greek migration occured and communities intyermingled and cultures influenced each other to a considerable degree and so on and so forth.

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Originally Posted by Sarkiss

vartan, why do you write axper, when it should be akhper? just curios. i've seen that the same way nakharar, gets written as naxarar. that make things more confusing for those who dont speak the language and isnt correct.

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It is for those that speak. I don't direct my transliteration at non-Hayeren speakers. And the c represents ts, and x represents kh, and so on. Armenian speakers have no problem recognizing this, and this is the most common form of IM for us online. It's no problem though, as it is by and for Armenian speakers.

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Originally Posted by Sarkiss

aye! what would it be, grakan, ashkharabar? or can you make it grabar by any chance?

vartan, why do you write axper, when it should be akhper? just curios. i've seen that the same way nakharar, gets written as naxarar. that make things more confusing for those who dont speak the language and isnt correct.

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By grakan, u mean Grapar (Classical). Well I dont know Classical Armenian. Its like what Latin is to Italian. Most likely itll be in modern Armenian

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Originally Posted by artavazd

By grakan, u mean Grapar (Classical). Well I dont know Classical Armenian. Its like what Latin is to Italian. Most likely itll be in modern Armenian

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No problem with that. Just find someone who speaks Eastern Armenian and you're set (of course, because of the adaptation of the unaspirated consonant sounds from the surrounding Caucasians that was complete by the time of EB).

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Originally Posted by vartan

No problem with that. Just find someone who speaks Eastern Armenian and you're set (of course, because of the adaptation of the unaspirated consonant sounds from the surrounding Caucasians that was complete by the time of EB).

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I speak Eastern Armenian. Well unaspirated consonant sounds exist in classical Armenian, independent of its existence in Caucasian languages. The Western Armenian dialect (in which unaspirated consonants dont exist) was formed much later during the Cilician period. Western Armenian can be looked at as the latinization of the Armenian language (Cilician Armenia had a lot of contact with the Crusaders).

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Originally Posted by artavazd

By grakan, u mean Grapar (Classical). Well I dont know Classical Armenian. Its like what Latin is to Italian. Most likely itll be in modern Armenian

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thats good enough:-)

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Originally Posted by artavazd

I speak Eastern Armenian. Well unaspirated consonant sounds exist in classical Armenian, independent of its existence in Caucasian languages. The Western Armenian dialect (in which unaspirated consonants dont exist) was formed much later during the Cilician period. Western Armenian can be looked at as the latinization of the Armenian language (Cilician Armenia had a lot of contact with the Crusaders).

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Yeah I know, same here. I was suspecting you were Eastern by your name. I just had to make sure!