Re: Help with missile troops
Thats strange, I do not have this problem. Maybe your fire at will is off? And what do you mean by once melee starts? Like when any of your units engage or the missile troops engage in melee?
Re: Help with missile troops
The fact that missile units will "chase" routers is certainly annoying...but it's also not new. The only answer I have is to just keep paying attention, requires some micro-management. Personally, I'd like to see some sort of mechanic where a missile unit will not chase a routing target, but we don't currently have that.
One option is to simply not target individual enemy units at all. Simply turn on "fire-at-will" and let them shoot at whoever comes within their range. The obvious downside is that they may waste ammo on undesirable targets. But neither will they run off on a wild-goose chase.
Are your missile units' firing arcs visible on the field (I think that's a selectable option)? If not, and you're panned out a bit where you can't easily see the individual troops, then part of your problem may be that they're facing the wrong way. If they're in skirmish mode, then sometimes they about-face to run away....and then when they stop at a safe distance, they don't about-face again. They just stand there with their backs to the battle, and it's not necessarily obvious to you. So, I would suggest turning on the firing arc visibility; much easier to see if they're facing the right way. Also very useful during pre-battle maneuvering to see where your missile troops will engage at max firing range.
If we're talking specifically about infantry archers, then you might try this: Park them safely behind your melee line, and then turn skirmish-mode off. It won't solve the "chase targeted routers" problem, but will ensure that skirmishing behavior doesn't inadvertently leave them facing the wrong way. This technique doesn't work well with slingers or javelin troops, though, because those types are typically working ahead of or to the side of the melee line, rather than from behind it.
Re: Help with missile troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hooahguy
Thats strange, I do not have this problem. Maybe your fire at will is off? And what do you mean by once melee starts? Like when any of your units engage or the missile troops engage in melee?
My missile units fire normally at the first unit that becomes available. Then once that unit it was targeting becomes involved in melee my missile units stop and do not aquire a new target. Quite often I'll have enemy javelin units firing at mine and the only way to have my units fire back ist to target them. With forced targeting my units will sometime try to walk through the melee line even though they are in range.
At Bramborough- They had guard mode in previous releases. When guard mode was activated missile units would not follow the target if it moves out of range.
What is terrible about this is sometimes my cavalry will not chase a routing unit but my missile units seem to always chase a target no matter what
Re: Help with missile troops
I did some testing and it actually does seem you are right. If a single unit is engaged in melee ranged units wont attack, but if there is more than one in the immediate area, even if they are all bunched up together, they will attack. I wonder if CA put this in to prevent friendly fire? Also in my case they were rather close to the enemy so I wonder if it had to do with a minimum range plus if they were engaged with your own melee troops. I will do more testing since its a long weekend anyways and I should probably pace myself through my Friends marathon.
EDIT: after some testing it seems like range has something to do with it. The closer the missile unit is to the melee the less likely they are to keep firing at the enemy unit. So basically keep their area of fire to the middle to outer layers and you should still seem them fire upon an enemy in melee.
Re: Help with missile troops
So I pushed post on a longer post yesterday & then forums seem to have crashed...
Anyways: They do shoot but only if they have a clear shot at an enemy -> stuff like slingers with flat trajectory tend to not shoot at all.
Archers & Javelins will find occasional shots through/over the friendly unit.
Pretty sure that in the past missile units on 'fire at will' would switch to next closest unit once the closest is in melee.
Might have been a change between games rather than within Rome2 though.
Re: Help with missile troops
I kind of wish there was an override button for being able to fire upon enemies even when in close proximity to your own men. But I suppose this makes sense. As I posted before, having your archers further back allows the them to fire upon enemies even when their targets are in melee. Ive found that the best place to have them is when the enemy is just within their firing arc, as I mentioned before. Of course it is best to have your archers right behind your men initially when on the defensive, and then move them back when the enemy approaches so they can fire upon the advancing enemy as much as they can.
Re: Help with missile troops
Yes, when firing at max range they will use the highest angle -> least amount of interruption.
I guess that makes it not LoS interruption but Line of Flight.
Its actually something I've been paying some attention to just recently & have indeed noticed that archers further back after engagement works better.
And last night I found Javelins throwing far more usefully from much further back than I normally have them in a battle vs a Fortified army.
Had noticed similar with Slingers previously but never really used Archers except with Garrisons until playing Crimea(river).
Since then I've taken to using Archers much more: where I was typically using 4* Slingers in 2 rows I'll now have 2* Archers in the front row with the 2* Slingers further back.
Re: Help with missile troops
I've always had a strong preference for archers as the missile component of my armies. I think they have by far the best balance of range, trajectory, and damage. hoom brings up a great point about moving missile troops further back to ensure targets are always in the outer part of their firing arc. I haven't really been paying enough attention to that.
It makes perfect sense...longer range means higher trajectory, which in turns means the steepest downward angle in the "terminal phase" just before reaching target. Targeted infantry would normally raise their shields high in defense...but that's going to be tough to do if they're actually engaged in melee or close to it. It also occurs to me that the higher the projectile goes in the air, the more gravity will increase force of impact.
Re: Help with missile troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oaty
At Bramborough- They had guard mode in previous releases. When guard mode was activated missile units would not follow the target if it moves out of range.
Very true...and come to think of it, rather odd that they removed Guard mode. Of course, that's a bigger issue than just with missile troops. Bottom line: there needs to be some way to prevent ANY type of unit from chasing routers. Most of the time in the early/middle stages of a battle, I want my troops to hold position and disengage once their targeted enemy unit routs. A return of Guard mode would help.
Re: Help with missile troops
Quote:
hoom brings up a great point about moving missile troops further back
Hooahguy bought it up, I just elaborated :bow:
Also if you get the opportunity to do so, getting missile troops out the flanks & round the back can be very devastating.
Both because of no LoS interruption & because no shields in the way.
Problem is there is normally some Cav, a bunch of enemy missile troops &/or reserve/reinforcement infantry that makes this impractical until you've already pretty much won except with some elite stuff like Macedon Royal Peltasts.
Re: Help with missile troops
Quote:
I wonder if CA put this in to prevent friendly fire?
Re-instated would be a more accurate description. In Shogun I, when a targeted unit retreated beyond range, with fire-at-will off, your unit simply stopped firing and remained in position. Back then, guard mode was called "hold position" and was a manual command (you could click it on/off). There was also a "hold formation" command that kept the unit in whatever formation you had placed it...loose/tight...three lines/two lines, etc, that prevented unit blob or facing the wrong direction. A missile unit would disengage an enemy unit that entered melee combat with one of your own and targeted the next "free" enemy unit unless there were no other non-engaged units within range.
One other nice feature was the ability to check the battle log to see how many of your casualties were from friendly fire, and to see how many casualties each individual warrior caused...not just the unit, but each individual in that unit.
Re: Help with missile troops
Yeah I loved those logs.
I would try tof follow some individuals in combat then figure out who it was in the log, then try to follow through next battles.
I remember following a particular Naginata Samurai guy through several battles having watched him get at least something like 6 kills first battle.
Based on that he was one of the top several Honor in the unit, logs told the starting Honor, finishing Honor, kills & if they survived -> couldn't be the next down & was pretty sure it wasn't next up.
Through the next couple of battles the guys above in Honor thinned out & he still had a unique Honor level.
I think it was on the 3rd or 4th battle he survived again but the unit Commander died -> as highest Honor who survived the battle he became the new Commander & I got to learn his name!
Pretty sure he even survived a couple more battles after that but did get killed somewhere along the way sadly :bow:
I even kept those logs & his name in a .txt file somewhere on my HDD for a long time, lost since in a HDD crash or copy/paste fail I believe :no:
Re: Help with missile troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hoom
Hooahguy bought it up, I just elaborated :bow:
Also if you get the opportunity to do so, getting missile troops out the flanks & round the back can be very devastating.
Both because of no LoS interruption & because no shields in the way.
Problem is there is normally some Cav, a bunch of enemy missile troops &/or reserve/reinforcement infantry that makes this impractical until you've already pretty much won except with some elite stuff like Macedon Royal Peltasts.
This is precisely why whenever I can, I have horse archers in my army, which can do exactly what you said and are fast enough to out run the enemy should they give chase.
Re: Help with missile troops
Yep, for the longest time I hated HAs...found them too difficult to micromanage. Finally I stopped trying to use them in some sort of special "HA-unique" way, and started using them just like regular archers in early/mid battle, and then shifted them to light cavalry tasks in the end battle. Worked great; they became my armies' biggest killers.
Re: Help with missile troops
Yeah its much easier to do with Horse Archer factions :2thumbsup:
Tarantines can do it too but I often wish they had more ammo.
