NATO - Warsaw Pact conflict

Nearly two years ago, Cuban Missile Crisis almost sparked open conflict between West and Eastern bloc. Both superpowers might have made bargain to escape military confrontation. Nevertheless, the tense remained high throughout the decade.

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4 October 1964. USSR. 18,000 meters above Sea of Azov...

The sky was clear and dark blue -- the sky that only the small band of jet pilots know the world around. At this altitude the weather, whatever weather there was, was a remote thing, noticed only as patches of white cloud below, obscuring the ground. A black aircraft flies at a supersonic speed. This, however, is not a usual aircraft. It is a Dragon Lady, nickname for the Lockheed U-2 reconnaissance aircraft. The aircraft is on a highly-classified mission, but something has gone very wrong. Two Soviet MiG-21 fighters are pursuing behind closely. The U-2 attempts to accelerate itself and break the pursuit, only to be responded by barrage of missiles from its pursuers. Hours later, the spy plane was found on the coast 30 km southwest of Rostov, sealed off by Soviet authority. This incident is only the start for the chain of events to come.


6 October 1964

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v..._Newspaper.jpg

Soviet Bomber Exploded in Canada Airspace

Big explosion shattered a quiet morning at St John’s after a Soviet Tu-20 bomber, famously known as “Bear”, collided with a CF-101 jet. The Bear, believed to have deliberately enter Canada airspace was spotted on radar and soon two CF-101 jets were sent from 416 Squadron Base in Chatham, New Brunswick. Shortly after the collision, the two aircraft exploded. Both of the CF-101 jet and Bear pilots were killed. The other CF-101, although managed to avoid the collision, was hit by fire from the enormous blast. The pilot, unable to control the aircraft and knew it was burning, ejected and reached the ground unharmed. His aircraft crashed into the ground, and was found 15 kilometers south of St John’s hours later. According to the pilot, who is also the only survivor and eyewitness, Captain Francis Schalk, after the Bear’s left wing hit his companion’s aircraft, it suddenly made a sharp maneuver. This occurred only seconds after he managed to take a picture of both aircraft. Moments later, both his companion’s plane and the Soviet aircraft engulfed in flame, followed by explosion which happened very quickly. His friend didn’t manage to eject from the plane in time...


https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v..._Newspaper.jpg

Another American Spy Plane Downed

An American spy plane, most probably flown from Turkey, was shot down over Bulgarian airspace yesterday evening. The plane, which the American most probably use to conduct counter-revolutionary activity, given the fact that only two days ago similar spy plane was spotted to have been deliberately violated Soviet airspace and shot down near Rostov, crashed into Yugoslav territory. Soviet authority believes these two incidents prove that Western imperialist countries led by America are conducting activity for preparation of war against the Warsaw Pact states. However, the Soviet First Secretary of Communist Party and Premier, Mr. Khrushchev has said that “We will not be provoked by this deliberate attempt by imperialist countries. But if they truly wanted war with us, then they better prepare to dig their own graves!”...

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NATO – Warsaw Pact Conflict is a multiplayer based on alternate history depicting conventional warfare between two military alliances, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization led by United States, against the Warsaw Pact led by Soviet Union.

Here is the map of Europe in mid-1960s, showing each state’s alignment

https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/...lish301um2.jpg

Another maps:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...que_grande.jpg

https://img227.imageshack.us/img227/...emapbw7.th.jpg https://img146.imageshack.us/img146/...pe64qc4.th.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...nrelief_01.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Topography.png

While any military conflict between NATO and Warsaw Pact will hypothetically, and most probably, turned into nuclear warfare, and resulted complete devastation for all participants with neither side achieve victory. Here we assume that not a single nuclear weapon will be used, regardless of the military doctrine, situation and possible outcome. All states are completely forbidden to use nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, and the conflict will be entirely conventional. Any attempt to use them will be denied. Also, due to the nature of modern warfare, I have decided to make each turn last one week in-game time (or less, depending on the situation) and several states will not be available to be chosen. These states will be played by me.

List of states

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eaders_in_1964

NATO States


Unplayable NATO States


Warsaw Pact States



Unplayable Warsaw Pact State


Non-Aligned State (Playable)


Your TASK for this turn:

1. Choose the nation you want to play. The list is available above, some nations are not available and will be controlled by me. However, if you choose United States or Soviet Union, there are requirements you must fulfill before:
   
   • You must find out the strength of your military around 1964, including the armaments and Order of Battle (ground, naval, and air forces). Advice: You might want to study troops deployment during Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962, as the military strength is not much different than in 1964, and you might also want to look other sources.
   • Find out about your military doctrine, general strategy, and battlefield tactic for war in Europe.
   • Find out who’s your second-in-command, the commander-in-chief (of NATO or Warsaw Pact) and defense minister or secretary of defense.
   • Find out the nature of your military alliance, and your relation to each of member states.
   • All requirements above must be either posted in the thread, or sent by PM to me (to keep it secret). You will be denied choosing one of the two nations above before you complete the requirements.
2. Make some research about your state (including US or USSR, if you choose either one as your state). This information will be available to all players, and can later be used to plan your strategies. Things to research:
   
   1. Your head of government (and maybe head of state), even though I’ve listed them, it will be better to check and clarify.
   2. The strength of your military (in general, doesn’t have to be explicit, but it will surely be helpful), your military readiness, and mobilization time for both active military personnel and reservists (for all ground, naval, and air forces)
   3. Your country’s economy, political, and social condition in 1964
   4. Potential uprising and rebellions, such as Forest Brothers in Baltic, North Ireland separatists, communist insurgents, etc

Since my PM box size is very limited, please try to gather all the decisions that need to be sent to me by PM into a single PM, if possible.


RULES

- Objectives :

• NATO: Liberate Warsaw Pact states (except Soviet Union) by capturing their capital cities, Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania), and end effective offensive from the Soviet military.
• Warsaw Pact: Free NATO countries (except America, Canada, and Iceland) by capturing their capital cities and gain naval superiority over North Sea to deny more reinforcements from continental America.
• Non-aligned / Neutral states: Defend your country and repel any aggression to your country, prevent your capital from falling into enemy’s hand (or recapture it if it already fell) until either NATO or Warsaw Pact is defeated. NOTE: If you later choose to join one of the military alliances, your objectives will change into them.

- If your capital city is captured or if most of your country territory falls into the enemy, you’re not immediately defeated. You can set up government-in-exile somewhere within your ally states and continue to control resistance movement within your country. While the invaders are also free to set up their own “friendly government”.
- Switch into other military alliance: If you are playing as either a nation of NATO or Warsaw Pact, then you can’t change your allegiance for at least 6 turns. After 6 turns of playing, you will only be able to become a “neutral state” and must wait for another 2 turns to join the opposing military alliance. Beware though, the consequences can be very dangerous and you might end up being removed from power (and perhaps executed) for treason, although it differs from one state to another. If you’re removed from power or executed, then you will no longer be able to play and will be replaced by new player (new head of government).
- Neutral states joining military alliance: You must wait for at least 2 turns before you can decide to join a military alliance. However, you should be careful with your decision as it might cause unrest or even lead to civil war within your country.
- Newspaper: Each turn I will try to publish “a newspaper” if available, the example can be seen here in introduction chapter. Liberty Tribune will be presented as “Washington-based media” while the Socialist Enquirer will be presented as “Moscow-based media”. Newspaper is another source of information about what happen, other than in-game story, some might contain exaggerated information, but most of them are based on what actually happen. You are allowed to submit your own article if you want, however I might edit the articles to match or suit more with the situation (or perhaps the grammar). Newspaper might be counted as propaganda.
- Inactivity: Failure to send orders in at least 3 turns (not necessarily 3 turns in a row) will result in immediate removal from office (you will no longer play) and replacement by a new (player) head of government. However if you drop a message here in the thread informing about your absence (and the reason), you will not be removed and your state will be temporary run by me or by your second-in-command (temporary substitute player).
- How to play :
Every turn, I’ll list questions about the most relevant issues for the player to decide. However, each turn it’s also possible to decide about things that aren’t listed in that turn. Examples of actions that you can decide are listed here for reference during the game:

* Actions made publicly in this thread:

1. Declaring war (normally against or by non-aligned / neutral states)
2. Propaganda - Your nation probably wants to use propaganda actions posted as a public proclamation in the thread. This can also be a general call for, but also actions for your own population. Normal actions that aren’t explicit propaganda can also have propaganda effects. Public propaganda has much greater effect than covert propaganda.
3. Setting up government-in-exile

* Actions made by sending a PM to me (this information risks being leak out into the public):

1. Organizing your army (particularly reservists) and militia
2. Diplomatic discussions, particularly with neutral states
3. Using non-aligned / neutral states territory to cross your army (doesn’t have to ask permission)
4. Choosing where to launch offensives, what strategy or tactics to use and key targets to strike - You’re allowed make very complex strategies with conditional plans and diversions etc. Just remember it must be logistically feasible within the length of the chapter. Also remember that pushing soldiers too hard can result in undisciplined behavior, mutiny and desertion etc.
5. Starting war without formal declaration (for neutral states only)
6. Determining what to do to POW / Prisoner of War (and rebels). I’ll ask more specific questions and give you options about how to act when POW were captured or when rebellion takes place.

* Other decisions:

You can decide about almost anything you can think of that isn’t very historically unlikely (but possible), like sending soldiers into extremely hazardous area, killing prisoners of war, etc. Those decisions can be sent to me by PM. However you should be able to figure out the consequences of your actions.

Current Status: Chapter 08

Index:
Chapter 1
Chapter 2 - 11 October 1964
Chapter 3 - 18 October 1964
Chapter 4 - 26 October 1964
Chapter 5 - 2 November 1964
Chapter 6 - 9 November 1964
Chapter 7 - 16 November 1964
Chapter 8 - 23 November 1964

Looks very interesting. If I play, I think I'd like to be the U.S.S.R. or some Warsaw Pact country but not 100% sure if I'll have time or not.

OMG
This is the MOST FREAKING AMAZING THING EVER!

Sign me up for U.S. of A.

THIS LOOKS AWESOME!

Sign me up as Rumania.

If Derf can't play U.S.S.R, I will fill in. But for now sign me up as the U.K!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Derfasciti

Looks very interesting. If I play, I think I'd like to be the U.S.S.R. or some Warsaw Pact country but not 100% sure if I'll have time or not.

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I suggest you play a nation other than USSR and US if you don't have much time. I am opening both slots for people with enough time (they certainly require the most time and dedication)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

OMG
This is the MOST FREAKING AMAZING THING EVER!

Sign me up for U.S. of A.

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Sure, I'll reserve the place for you, but I'll still wait for the requirements though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warluster

If Derf can't play U.S.S.R, I will fill in. But for now sign me up as the U.K!

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I will sign you as UK, however if you have more enough time and have already filled the requirements, then you might play as USSR.

As I said; I'm shall take U.S.S.R only if Derf isn't taking it.

Put me down for Turkey - will there be naval combat? and air?

Looks interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warluster

As I said; I'm shall take U.S.S.R only if Derf isn't taking it.

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I'll reserve the place for you, but I'll still wait for the requirements to be fulfilled.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by King Kurt

Put me down for Turkey - will there be naval combat? and air?

Looks interesting.

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Yes, definitely. It will involve naval and air combat as well.

I have just spent an hour or so looking for info on the Turkish armed forces in the 1960's with not a lot of sucess - I have some stuff, but could do with orders of battle etc - anybody out there able to help me?
Tran - if I can't get detailed stuff, I might have to take an educated guess - I will PM you with it.

I would like to join as France

this looks amazing... really well presented and a great idea :2thumbsup:

sign me up for Czechoslovakia, please

No Germany, no nukes? :furious3:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

No Germany, no nukes? :furious3:

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Franc - No nukes makes it interesting - it would be a short game if they were allowed!! As for Germany - I assume that there is a good reason to leave them out. Central Europe would be a difficult area to control in this sort of game, so action around the edges makes for a more controlable game - I'm second guessing Tran here really - but conflict in secondary theatres was always a scenario which was thought as being possible - so called "Limited War"
So Franc - why nor mirror your 17th Century efforts and be France - playing as DeGaule, you would be just as likely to declare war on the USA as opposed to the USSR!!!

Give me Spain please.

Leader: Franciso Franco. He was beginning to relax his rather vast powers at this time, although those can be halted.

Economy: Was going through an economic revival at this time and was receiving a great deal of aid from the U.S and Argentina.

Military
Military: Plenty of older U.S Ordnance, like the M48 Tank, M8 Greyhound etc.
Political: Wasn't going to be declared a monarchy or republic etc. any time soon. I have free reign over who I want Franco's successor to be.
Social: Generally content, due to improvements in the economy. High amounts of militant oppression in Cataluna and the Basque Country.

Rebellions: None that I really know of. People don't want the dictatorship to continue after Franco's death however. ETA doesn't appear until ~early 70s.

Actually not.
Found some info and will accumulate the data.

Too bad there are no nukes. Obviously it could get out of hand but hey, wouldn't mass destruction be fun? :end:


As for U.S.S.R. I might actually be able to do it.

Anyone know if the contents in "The World War August 1985" would be pertinent information? I haven't finished it but I think I have a good source for Warsaw Pact forces in general here.

So MM, your not the U.S anymore?

If so I'll take it!

Romanian Information

Economy
http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-11182.html

For several years following the war, the devastated economy was burdened with reparation payments to the Soviet Union, which already by 1946 had expropriated more than one-third of the country's industrial and financial enterprises. By mid-1948 the Soviets had collected reparations in excess of US$1.7 billion. They continued to demand such payments until 1954, severely retarding economic recovery.

After the installation of a Soviet-styled communist regime, Romania's economic evolution would faithfully follow the Stalinist pattern. Adopting a centrally planned economy under the firm control of the PCR, the country pursued the extensive economic development... strategy adopted by the other communist regimes of Eastern Europe but with an unparalleled obsession with economic independence. The development program assigned top priority to the industrial sector, imposed a policy of forced saving and consumer sacrifice to achieve a high capital accumulation rate, and necessitated a major movement of labor from the countryside into industrial jobs in newly created urban centers. The first step on this path was nationalization of industrial, financial, and transportation assets. Initiated in June 1948, that process was nearly completed by 1950. The socialization of agriculture proceeded at a much slower pace, but by 1962 it was about 90 percent completed.

Economic growth during the first twenty-seven years of communist rule was impressive. Industrial output increased an average 12.9 percent per year between 1950 and 1977, owing to an exceptionally high level of capital accumulation and investment, which grew an average 13 percent annually during this period.

Relations with Soviet Union
http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-11132.html

After Stalin died in March 1953, Gheorghiu-Dej forged a "New Course" for Romania's economy. He slowed industrialization, increased consumer-goods production, closed Romania's largest labor camps, abandoned the Danube-Black Sea Canal project, halted rationing, and hiked workers' wages. Romania and the Soviet Union also dissolved the Sovroms.

Soon after Stalin's death, Gheorghiu-Dej also set Romania on its so-called "independent" course within the East bloc. Gheorghiu-Dej identified with Stalinism, and the more liberal Soviet regime threatened to undermine his authority. In an effort to reinforce his position, Gheorghiu-Dej pledged cooperation with any state, regardless of political-economic system, as long as it recognized international equality and did not interfere in other nations' domestic affairs. This policy led to a tightening of Romania's bonds with China, which also advocated national self-determination.

Romanian Army
http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-11289.html

When the PCR was firmly in control of the country and Romania securely within the Warsaw Pact, the Soviet Union was willing to withdraw its occupation forces, which happened in May 1958. By the mid-1960s, however, the Ceausescu regime had begun to de-Sovietize the armed forces, to reemphasize Romanian military traditions, and to carve out an autonomous position within the Soviet-dominated Warsaw Pact.

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-11316.html

In the late 1950s, Romania curbed excessive Soviet influence over its armed forces, built up in the years after World War II, and ceased sending its officers to the Soviet Union for military education and training. After 1962 it did not allow Warsaw Pact troop maneuvers on its territory, although occasional command and staff exercises were permitted. In November 1964, PCR General Secretary Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej announced a unilateral reduction in the term of compulsory military service from two years to sixteen months and in the size of the Romanian armed forces from 240,000 to 200,000 soldiers. His successor, Ceausescu, openly asserted that these moves reflected the precedence of Romanian national interests over Warsaw Pact requirements. He criticized Soviet domination of the alliance, its command, and policy making, and he called for structural changes in the Warsaw Pact, to include rotating the position of commander-in-chief of the joint armed forces among non-Soviet officers and allowing the non-Soviet Warsaw Pact member states a bigger role in decision making. In the late 1960s, Romanian forces essentially quit participating in joint Warsaw Pact field exercises except for sending staff officers to observe them, and Ceausescu announced that Romania would no longer put its military forces under the Warsaw Pact's joint command, even during peacetime maneuvers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by King Kurt

Franc - No nukes makes it interesting - it would be a short game if they were allowed!! As for Germany - I assume that there is a good reason to leave them out. Central Europe would be a difficult area to control in this sort of game, so action around the edges makes for a more controlable game - I'm second guessing Tran here really - but conflict in secondary theatres was always a scenario which was thought as being possible - so called "Limited War"

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Excellent guess, King Kurt.:2thumbsup:

If you have read many of the "war plan" about NATO-WP by both Western and Soviet commanders, you will know that Germany was supposed to fall within one week, three weeks at most. That's even with three garrisons from US, Britain, and France. Soviet + Warsaw Pact forces would leave little chance for NATO forces in (West) Germany (plus Benelux and Denmark) to retaliate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DemonArchangel

Give me Spain please.

Leader: Franciso Franco. He was beginning to relax his rather vast powers at this time, although those can be halted.

Economy: Was going through an economic revival at this time and was receiving a great deal of aid from the U.S and Argentina.

Military
Military: Plenty of older U.S Ordnance, like the M48 Tank, M8 Greyhound etc.
Political: Wasn't going to be declared a monarchy or republic etc. any time soon. I have free reign over who I want Franco's successor to be.
Social: Generally content, due to improvements in the economy. High amounts of militant oppression in Cataluna and the Basque Country.

Rebellions: None that I really know of. People don't want the dictatorship to continue after Franco's death however. ETA doesn't appear until ~early 70s.

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Hmm....you seems to know some thing about Spain from this period? I'll create Spain and reserve the place for you, but I will also wait for you to come with more infos, like the OOB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Derfasciti

Anyone know if the contents in "The World War August 1985" would be pertinent information? I haven't finished it but I think I have a good source for Warsaw Pact forces in general here.

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Nope, but there are plenty available on the web. Check your PM.

@CA: Excellent infos!

Anyone having trouble finding information should check here:

http://www.country-data.com/

Most European Nations seem to be there.

I forgot to mention these:

For both the US and USSR, they are only allowed to commit forces for those who were supposed to fight in Europe. That means we assume:

USA: Can only use forces already available in Europe, its continental East Coast garissons (including National Guard), and reinforcements that were supposed to be sent into Europe. The rest, we assume (in theory), will be used to combat Soviet forces in Pacific and elsewhere outside Europe.

USSR: Can only use forces located in its European part, forces from location like Central Asia etc will, we assume (in theory), be used to combat US forces in Pacific and elsewhere outside Europe.

WHEW! That makes the OOB alot easier to ascertain.

Sign me up as Sweden please.

Sweden Info

Leader: Prime minister Tage Erlander, A social democrat and longest rulling prime minister in swedish history he persided over the creation of the welfare state.

Millitary: The plan for any defense rellied on forigen aid steping in. Making the army fairly weak at this point. However an air force was seen as vital to deter soviet submurine incurrsions on their boarders. The Swedish navy cooperated with NATO in submirine technology even to the point of assisting the U.S. in research on the Poloris nucluer sub missles.

Politics
Sweden had a long terrdition of nuetraillity in wars ever sense the loss of Finland in 1809. This policy was kept over the cival war although many behind doors deals took place to aid NATO. Cummilating with the U.S. secretly gurranteeing the safty of the country in event of war in 1960. At home Sweden was left and socilist with a extensive welfare system in place. An extensive enviromental and peace movement would play a part in the 70's.

Econemy:

Sweden's econemy was at it's highpoint at this time. The country was heavilly industrillized. However the recent wave of immegration was starting to stress housing. In response the government insituted the million programe in 1965 with the goal of building a million houses in 10 years.

Social
An extensive wave of immegration was witnessed durring this time. Their were also numerous peace and enviromental movements. As well as a movement to reintroduce terrditional values (much like the one going on in the U.S. toady).

Revolts

None were found except for few clashes with protesters and police.

Looks awesome. I'll sign up as Yugoslavia.

France Infomation

Leader: Charles De Gaulle

• Reformer of econmoy
• Tries to be strong internationally
• Strong support amongst public

Military:

• Demorailised (partly) after the ALgerian conflict and close to rebellion.
• Strong focus on weapons of massive destruction (pity i cant use it...)

Econmy

• Strong becasue of reforms and building projects

I cant find lots of infomation for France during that period, most of it are about USSR or USA :help: so if anyone could help, it would be very much appreciated

Yugoslavia information:

Head of State: Josip Broz Tito.

Military: Had some trouble getting info for this exact time. In 1952, Yugoslavian troop numbers were estimated at 500,000, with 22% of the budget devoted to defence. During the 60's, Yugoslavia depended on arms and equipment bought from the Soviet Union.

Economy: Recovering from recession in early 60's. In 1963, the country introduced market socialism, decentralizing decision making and allowing market forces more lattitude. The government was only to intervene in times of financial crises. Began period of growth for country's GDP, which rose an average of 6.1% during the 60's.

Revolts: Despite suppression of national identities(ie-Croation, Albanian, Serbian), no significan uprisings occur during the 60's.

http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-12965.html

As for an OOB, I'm going to have a bit of trouble finding one. I'll start looking right now.

Edit: here's one for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Army

2005.

The problem is that with the exception of the 4 Tercios of the Spanish Legion, Spain's generally doesn't deploy many foreign intervention forces. Also, Spain didn't perform that many military actions during this time period.

Ok, Tran Warluster and I have come to an agreement.


Warluster will take full command and I will be the advisor/second-in-command.

I've yet to have any luck finding the Russian Chief of staff or it's equivalent yet though. :(