Sure.piece of cake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
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Sure.piece of cake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Huh thats wierd, my orders were:Quote:
It's completely ridiculous. Roughly 50-100 people knew where the wedding was, and at least half were escorts. With the intrigue level that Renly has, the cunning of Margaery, and the vigilance of Brienne, ya'd think that at least one one of them would have thought something was up when Doran Martell sent Arbor wine to the secret wedding location.
Maybe that merchant got really lucky.Quote:
5. Varys will provide a forger and a craftsman who make wax stamps who has less than exepilary morals, Maester Pycell will provide samples every wax seal and letter sent to Robert that he has kept over the years, he should have at least one example from each major lord, and Tywin will aquire a barrel of the finest Dornish wines from Robert's old wine Cellar, I am assuming he'd have left some undrunk. Tywin's own Maester will provide some Strangler crystals.
With all this I will give the Forger some of Doran Martell's and Stannis' letters as examples and order him to make out two letters in each person's handwriting. One from Doran saying the wine is a wedding present, wishing well the marriage etc.
The second will be in Stannis' handwriting giving orders to deliver the wine and Doran's letter to Storm's end with explicit instructions for the bearer not to let anyone drink the wine before it is delivered and that they will be paid twice as much if after delivering the wine and letters they go to Griffin's roost and present Stannis' letter to the lord. While he is doing that I will have the craftsman make stamps that will reproduce the seals of every lord that has sent letters to KL and one blank stamp. With the letters ready Tywin will seal Doran's letter with the copy of Doran's stamp and a wax that can pass off as Dorn's wax, he will seal Stannis' letter with the Blank stamp with black wax.
With that ready he will give the wine and letters to the most loyal Lannister soldier who is not well known enough to be recognised, (i.e. no named character) who will dress in Baratheon colours, go down the road to Storms end and wait at the border for a Trader heading to Storms end, preferably not a local. He will Pass on the wine, the letters, instructions to only open the unmarked letter and a 50 gold advance to get it done. After that I cannot plan but hopefully it will end in Renly or Margery dying at thier wedding.
Well maybe easy is a bit of an exaggeration but easier than I would otherwise expect, especially if I had the baratheon troops pretend to be defecting to you and then stab you in the back later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
The wedding was at Summer Hall. How that succeeded I will never know. You must have rolled a natural 100 on a D20.
Woah, you paid 50 gold? That's an army of 10000!
Honestly I had enough to afford the expense and it's pretty cheap price to pay if it took out Renly, I was hoping the money would provide enough incentive for the trader not to rat me out.
With that kind of sum involved, it was an offer he couldn't refuse. :laugh4:
That doesn't explain how a random merchant found out where the wedding was.
Search me, I was surprised it worked, I was half expecting the wine to be drunk by a random guard.
cuz the game is restarting now i can say this but you never had superiour odds. 1 longship was a strronga as a carrack and we had 30-40 ships at the sound...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
That's ridiculous. Longships are the fastest thing in the sea, not the strongest.
I bet they cost less too.
Might be ridiculous but it was true haha. Cost as much as a cog and had the power of a carrack.
We woulda crushed you.
Conflicts with the Lore though. Longships rivalled that of a Caravel, but a Longship could never match a Carrack. I believe in is Dance of the Dragons? but it says how only the Iron fleet has ships which could even touch a carrack, but struggled. Only bested them due to the experience of the crew since they were the Best of the Best.Quote:
Originally Posted by scottishranger
WTH/// this is totally crazy. the ironborn ought to have the biggest fleet and the strongest too. the fact that i had so few ships i could live with cuz of their strength but that the tyrells would be able to defeat my full strength fleet... next turn?? and i mean i lost 6 longships wotrh a carrack in a surprise attack but the tyrells just lose 6 cogs in a full naval engagement...??? wthQuote:
Originally Posted by Tiaexz
naval warfare needs a slight fix i think.
all of this no disrespect to JHT. you did great and i was loving it. sad its restarting.
Yeah, it sure does need a fix. Longships are overpowered.
yes but we paid for the strengtrh with our size. and regarding how dropping and picking up soldiers work, id rather have more ships tthan stronger ones. in this case it wouldve meant more victory even cuz i had to leave a significant amount of my fleet in a part to pick up soliders which never came...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaexz
and the tyrell fleet is oversized. he has like double my numbers... also you could easily replace your entire fleet for me every lost ship was onel ost for good. i could perhaps make 10 more longships before going bankrupt and that means i couldnt pay any upkeep for more turns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Double A
And he can apparently replace the whole thing in 1 turn.Quote:
and the tyrell fleet is oversized. he has like double my numbers...
I'd be fine with more or cheaper longships as long as they aren't as strong as freaking carracks.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stranger
Personally I was kinda confused by the ships in general, I though westeros used galleys mostly not 2+ mast ocean going ships.
actually you are wrong there. i did understand that only i had a plan of my own and i wanted to take out the tyrells asap to get naval supremacy on the west coast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
The facts are:
The Ironfleet is nearly 40 longships (as far as I remember), which each carry 1000 men, big. Their banners have hundreds of ships but only small longships, who are used for raiding. In fact the greyjoy fleet is nearly as strong as all fleets of the other Houses together, but that's just as it is. THe greyjoys lack catapults and rams for their ships though.
Building ships should not be too fast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stranger
That is an issue which will be solved. The whole Naval system is getting worked upon. Ships are going to end up dying and they are going to be a pain to replace, especially Carracks. The advantage the Greyjoys have is they can field bigger numbers and just swarm the bigger ships and far easier for them to manufacture and cheaper to keep afloat, which are their effective advantages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Double A
So will they suffer in narrow straits, where their manoeuvrability will be impeded?
a 1000 men on their longship wtf.. thats insanely much.
but ye anyway i dont think my fleet was overly strong compared to tyrells now that i see what happened. definitly if he was just so rich he could buy everything back in 1 turn. im also dissapointed my fleet didnt smash through and burned down the harbor...
i had forseen stannis his betrayal but i just couldnt account for everything. also the surpirse attacks of the tyrells was the best thing that happened to them and it wasnt even planned. i mean how can i make orders and run a fleet if i have to take into account how my opponents behave and npcs (host) i know nothing about :S
dont forget about size :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Tiaexz
I'm not sure how it was in John's game, but nearly each small House on coast has a small war galley or something similar too, so calling the banners for lannisters and tyrells should bring also some nice amount of ships (though only minor ones).
Ahm, I speak thinking about Vikings, Liburni and any other people with small vessels in history: one thing they don't lack or gets impaired is manuverability...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishmael
Well if you cram a lot of small, agile longships into a narrow strait and send heavily armoured ships with catapults and the like at them, there will only be one outcome. Out on the open sea it's a whole different story, of course.
is there a possibility of gettign some intervention during battles? i mean its humanly impossible to account for every situation. i had faction orders of about 3,500 words but still many things that were vital i couldnt control :S
this could perhaps happen on that monday, where the faction gets the chance to react to some things that happen? or would that be too much :P
Make the game real-time.
:cool:
Wiki entry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kival
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...p#note-RaCoK24
Clash of Kings, Chapter 24, p. 379 (us paperback):Quote:
Longships, are used as fast raiding ships in see and land. They can travel twice as swiftly as a merchant cog[5] and carry about 1,000 men, specifically a hundred feet long longship would have about fifty oarsmen and room for about a 100 men on the deck.[6]
About a new build ship, not the largest ship (Balons ship and Victarions ship beeing bigger e.g.)
Also described as very fast.Quote:
hundred feet long ....deck enough for hundred men...
Here's an answer of the author directly towards that question:
http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/...Greyjoy_Fleet/
So, after reread I need to correct my former posting:
Greyjoys have smaller but fast ships, are not lacking rams (only catapults) but they have really hell of a lot of them and the lord's vessels are comparitively bigger.
also did the tyrells break both the oldtown and the mander blockade? how did they do that? there were not supposed to be ships there since i took the shield islands :O
Point is the crammed ones would be the large vessels...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishmael
Think that's Stannis and Renly doing...Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stranger
the wiki entry is weird i read it before. its prolly a typo 1000 troops is way too much and 100 seems much more likely. its roughly the number john let me transport safely as well. so that was fine only problem was i had so damn few of themso i ahd to split off way too many ships to pick up soldiers which never came... which meant that my fleet was only at 28 ships instead of 40.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kival
Everyone would be crammed.
Also, catapults.
Well they would both be crammed, but the larger vessels would have the advantage in that type of fighting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjos
The Stranger, our orders were just to break the Oldtown blockade, but our results suggest we broke two of them. I'm not 100 % sure.
oh well im off to bed... :P
Greyjoy are Zerg, everyone else is Protoss.
If you are protecting a strait, your ships are already crammed and incapacitated: the small vessels in such tactical scenario have already won without engaging, all they need to do it to keep the blockade...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishmael
Leaving the strait to fight gives again the edge to the small vessels...
Only solution would be to "capture" the small ones locked in a strait...
I think it's 1000 ships, not troops, though that's insane too!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stranger
You should have waited for your banners ;-).Quote:
its roughly the number john let me transport safely as well. so that was fine only problem was i had so damn few of themso i ahd to split off way too many ships to pick up soldiers which never came... which meant that my fleet was only at 28 ships instead of 40.
OH NO ONLY 28 CARRACKS WHATEVER SHALL I DO
I was thinking of a EU3 HRE mechanic for the Iron throne...I found it weird that there was really no blow back after Joffrey murdered Ned. In a feudal system nobles would get nervous about a child who has not even been officially crowned murdering the king's regent without a trial if not outright rebel because of it. And then there was the "Second Greyjoy Rebellion" and the Lannisters didn't even declare war to restore authority to the Iron throne, even when the Riverlands would have bended the knee had he done so.(Greyblades drop the ball there, a whole kingdom was right there for him)
A mechanic like that would give incentive to keep the status quo and try to stay on top. If it adds unnecessary problems don't do it though.
The problem was I kinda paid them to do it. Also far as I knew at the time the greyjoys were the only ones with a fleet that could beat the combined forces of Stannis and Highgarden, which I thought was inevitable, declaring war on them seemed counter-productive. Still I'll know better next time :evilgrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by White_eyes:D
Oh yes, no coronation was so peculiar in this game XDQuote:
Originally Posted by White_eyes:D
Heh, funny story :sweatdrop:
With all my attention on repositioning my forces, trying to anticipate eddard's escape and generaly being a troll to Stannis... I forgot.
I honestly thought that your plan was to have the Greyjoys to attack the Riverlands and then have them sue for peace with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Imagine my surprise when Edmure accused me of working with the Greyjoy's....I was thinking "Tywin you..:daisy:".
I saw that it wasn't part of your plan when the Greyjoys finally spilled the beans on why they attacked(for money).
I pretty much freaked out when I was told that and told him to keep silent about it as it would only make it look worse to the Tully's.:laugh4:
I still dont know why they did it, it sure wasnt my idea.
Why didn't Theon die?
Starks are too weak-hearted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Double A
Oh your were working with Riverrun that is why I got the response I did when we sent out a possible idea of killing the mountain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Uh... no I wasnt working with riverrun. They were as pissed at us about eddard as the starks were.
I would think sending Theon to the wall is a fate worse then death personally.:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kival
@Greyblades: Riverrun was just looking for back-up, had you put pressure on them they would have caved.... you would have needed to declare war on the Greyjoys before we did but by that point the Greyjoys were attacking Stannis and the Highgarden forces anyway. You could have wiped out 3-4 rival Kingdoms by taking advantage of my diplomatic blunder with the Tully's.:book:
You did that? Was it announced publically?Quote:
Originally Posted by White_eyes:D
I would not have said anything but I assume John would have mentioned it with Cat going to the wall and all.(I also wanted her to hate on Jon for no reason while there):bounce:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kival
Cat was going to the wall?
I honestly hadn't thought of that, though I'm pretty sure if I tried you would have come up with some way out of it.Quote:
@Greyblades: Riverrun was just looking for back-up, had you put pressure on them they would have caved.... you would have needed to declare war on the Greyjoys before we did but by that point the Greyjoys were attacking Stannis and the Highgarden forces anyway. You could have wiped out 3-4 rival Kingdoms by taking advantage of my diplomatic blunder with the Tully's.
My first knee jerk reaction was to declare war on the Tully's for accusing Robb of working with the Greyjoy's. I knew that it would look really bad to declare war on your allies even for an insult such as that though.:mean:
I had no counters in place and I knew I couldn't declare war on the Lannister's until it was straighten out.(They're not going to let a believed hostile army pass through)
If you had sent some "spy's" out, I am sure it would have show this. Didn't you find it weird Robb didn't declare war after Ned was killed? Usually is a sign something has gone wrong and that something for the Starks was the Riverlands.:grin2:
In reality it is not. The host made a huge error with your faction, based on typo on the wiki of ice and fire. The number should be 100 men compared to 1000. :P There are several mentionings that the Ironborn have a huge amount of ships, but they are smaller then war galleys and carracks. The largest are about 100 meters long and only few meters wide, so good luck cramping 1000 marines to those.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stranger
This is one of those issues that need some work.
Can I make a request here guys?
I have decided I won't be returning to the Gameroom due to the behaviour of a number of players towards myself over the course of this game, though I have told Beskie I'll help him with his reboot. Reading through this I am getting a lot of criticism for "errors" and such like, which are completely incorrect. I would like to request that this thread is closed please, and that the players in the reboot try to have a little more respect for the host when they have an issue with the game, there is nothing wrong with taking issue with the decisions made in a game, but there are ways of doing it.
Truly JHT, we all greatly appreciate your fantastic work. I apologise if any of my or others' comments have come across as offensive, but at the moment we're just trying to give constructive criticism to our new host, to help make your concept as good as it can be. It goes to show how engrossed we got in this game that we got genuinely upset when things went poorly, and I apologise if I was rude at any point because of this.
I am truly saddened by this. I am sure all the players have great respect for the amount of time and energy you have put in to host this game. Poor behaviors towards you might just be due to the fact they are deeply engrossed in the world you have set up for us. I am not condoning the behavior, far from it, just hoping that you would see it in that light and not stay away from the gameroom. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhughthom
I want to thank you JHT as well. It was a really good game while it lasted
Thanks Ishmael (and everyone else), and I would point out that any constructive criticism given to me was always taken as such, I had many discussions with players over subjects we were on totally different levels regarding, and always took the time to put my side across and listen to the players, more often than not coming to some sort of compromise. I understand that the players got deeply involved, and overlooked certain comments because of this, but the weight of criticism, 9 times out of 10 because of events the players were unaware of (which was stressed by myself many times), became far too much. Sitting at my computer for 12 hours straight, trying to make order of extensive orders from many factions, then trying to put up brief outlines to be padded out with detail later, only to be told my effort were "crap" (to the relevant player, in no way is this aimed at you, simply a constant stream of comments that ate away at my confidence and motivation to host the game came to a head at that point). The vast majority of the comments in the QTs were edited almost immediately, clearly they were said in the heat of the moment and the players realised that they were unfair, and more than one player did apologise for something they said, which was appreciated, but I saw most of them and it's not nice to put something together for the enjoyment of others and come across such posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishmael
Anyway, I just wanted to make clear that I have nothing against any player, there were definite issues with the game, most notably naval strengths and the fact that standing armies were much too strong in comparision with calling up sworn houses. Though I would like to point out that at no stage did I say the game was based exactly on GRRM's lore, this was an alternate history, not an interactive history. :wink:
Good luck with the new game guys, and play nice. Now Beskie gets to host the game with the problems ironed out, and I'll be the guy who ragequit (well, sadquit) because his game sucked... :laugh4:
I'm going to close the thread as per johnhughthom's request, but I think that there is something that needs to be said first.
I have only been a member of the Org for two years, drawn here by the promise of a strong mafia community, a promise that was not only delivered but exceeded tenfold. Even when my passion for mafia has waned, I've always held the opinion that the Gameroom epitomises the kind of community that we want to foster at the Org; there's a strong sense of respect and camaraderie among the patrons in this little corner of the site, regardless of whether you're new to forum gaming or one of those old timers who played GH's Mafia I shortly after the invention of the wheel.
Much of the traffic that comes to the Org still focuses on the Total War series, yet the Gameroom is able to gather 117 people together for a game of mafia, a truly amazing feat for both the local moderator team and the player base. Capo IV may not have been the best game of mafia I've seen in my time at the Org, but it was a real joy to behold just how welcoming our community was to the large influx of new members, many of whom have opted to hang around as a result. You all earned yourselves a pat on the back with that one.
Hosting is an extremely time-consuming and stressful process, during which even the best laid plans can unravel; non-mafia games moreso, as there's a greater degree of freedom in player actions when you're not confined to the structurised style of mafia. When you have a game with such expansive lore and vastly different victory parameters and thus phase orders for each player/faction, you have to realise results are not always going to go your way, whether that is due to a poor roll of the dice or the actions of your fellow players. When that happens, you need to roll with the punches and accept the fact that you have been outwitted or unlucky, rather than venting your displeasure to the host, who only wants you to enjoy their work.
The Gameroom is about fun and community, and no member should ever feel that they have to step away from that because of the actions of others. I only hope that johnhughthom's decision to cease his participation in the Gameroom is not a permanent one, I for one will miss his unique approach to playing.
Let's focus on the reboot now, shall we?