Ukraine-in-a-thread

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03-03-2014, 16:04
Pannonian

Re: Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvg

This is really sad. I look at what is going on and can't help but shake my head in disgust. Not because of what Russia is doing, but to whom. This would be comparable to us invading Canada. There are certain things that you just don't do to someone that close to you, not even in big politics.

Just to extend the comparison, does this mean Russian forces will shortly be routed and the Kremlin burned? The Russians will eventually make up a song after a consolation victory at St Petersburg, hours after a ceasefire was agreed.
03-03-2014, 16:06
HoreTore

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Bah.

"Right" and "wrong" are irrelevant terms in the world of power politics.
03-03-2014, 16:13
rvg

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Western leaders, at least most of them, still have a colonial mindset of "we're entitled to everything and we can do no wrong". When you have Kerry condemning Putin about "invading a sovereign country under a false pretext" with a straight face, you understand just how out of touch with reality some of them really are.

You know, Serbia isn't that far from Ukraine. Who's to say you're not on Putin's hit list?
03-03-2014, 16:14
Husar

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Yes, and it's not just western leaders, it's also the public and the press, at least partially.

Merkel is also known as the Teflon lady because she always manages to blame others for her mistakes. She appoints all the wrong ministers and it's never her fault, there was even a joke statistic about how long people stay in office on average after she expressed her "full trust" in them: http://saschalobo.com/2013/02/11/ang...papst-edition/

She also loves to repeat the same empty phrases such as "We have to find a common solution...".

And do I really have to explain why Bush saying Putin is living in a different world is hilarious?
03-03-2014, 16:16
Montmorency

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

'he is not very well informed' and arguing with him is like 'arguing with an eight year old'.

Well, can anyone here deny having felt this way on the Org at some point?

It's a matter of strongly-contrasting frameworks.

But we're not as different as we think, ultimately...

Anyway, didn't Bush also throw a fit in front of Putin over Caucasian politics at the 2008 Olympics?
03-03-2014, 16:19
Kagemusha

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Husar

Do we even want to keep the peace or is it time to let off steam and release the tensions in a nice and shiny proxy war?
If we do nothing now and the tensions stay, the next war will not be a proxy war but a world war. For the sake of preventing the nuclear apocalypse, we should go there now and fight the Russians. I'm just thankful I'm not in the army.

Rule number 1. We do not want war until the day wars will be fought between politicians themselves.:yes:
03-03-2014, 16:20
Husar

Re: Ukraine

Merkel is doing it wrong anyway, if she wants to get through to Putin she should call Gerhard Schröder, he's always been a good friend of Putin. I wonder whether he still works for that russian gas company. Either way I do not believe that Putin has lost it, he probably has a plan and so far it seems to work rather well.
03-03-2014, 16:29
Kagemusha

Re: Ukraine

According to BBC, Russian Black Sea Fleet has given Ukrainian forces at Crimea deadline until 03:00 GMT,Tuesday, march 4th to surrender or face all out assault..:shame:
03-03-2014, 16:37
Sarmatian

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvg

You know, Serbia isn't that far from Ukraine. Who's to say you're not on Putin's hit list?

Actually it is quite far, but that doesn't matter. We're landlocked and surrounded with NATO bases. In your face, Putin! Not to mention that mighty Bulgarian Khans, our century old allies (minus a war here and there, and again here and there, and another one here... and few smaller skirmishes... some insults... footy trashings...) will defend us from the Bear. There still are fierce steppe horseman genes in them and you know what fierce steppe horsemen did to Russia? In winter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Rule number 1. We do not want war until the day wars will be fought between politicians themselves.:yes:

Oh, man, I hate boxing, but I'd sell my car to see a Putin-Obama match, with Merkel holding up the round number (but NOT in a Bikini).
03-03-2014, 16:52
Sarmatian

Re: Ukraine

They were given same kind of ultimatums before. It's intimidation. The important part is that it came from the Black Sea Fleet and hasn't been confirmed by anyone in Moscow who's actually authorized to order something like that.

We should start worrying when Putin says that.
03-03-2014, 16:54
Kagemusha

Re: Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

They were given same kind of ultimatums before. It's intimidation. The important part is that it came from the Black Sea Fleet and hasn't been confirmed by anyone in Moscow who's actually authorized to order something like that.

We should start worrying when Putin says that.

Lets just hope it wont be confirmed by Russian political leadership.

EDIT: Russia is now denying that any official ultimatum have been given. Little bit earlier Russia has called for an meeting of UN security council for this night. Sounds like good news. :yes:
03-03-2014, 17:00
rvg

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Actually it is quite far, but that doesn't matter. We're landlocked and surrounded with NATO bases. In your face, Putin! Not to mention that mighty Bulgarian Khans, our century old allies (minus a war here and there, and again here and there, and another one here... and few smaller skirmishes... some insults... footy trashings...) will defend us from the Bear. There still are fierce steppe horseman genes in them and you know what fierce steppe horsemen did to Russia? In winter?

I suppose Myth has more reasons to worry than you do. But you're next, right after Bulgaria gets subjugated.
03-03-2014, 17:23
Sarmatian

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvg

I suppose Myth has more reasons to worry than you do. But you're next, right after Bulgaria gets subjugated.

To be attacked you have to have something worth conquering. Nowadays, we can't even get the Germans, the traditional Balkan invaders, interested. We tried, pleading, crying, begging but the Germans were adamant - NEIN! No invasion for you, Balkanische Schweine. Back in the day, they'd do it for a sausage.

So, what is in the rest of the world incorrectly seen as mismanagement of the country and rampant corruption is actually a genius master plan by our politicians. Destroy anything of value and you're safe from invasion.
03-03-2014, 17:34
rvg

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

To be attacked you have to have something worth conquering...

Not a problem. If Russia considers Crimea important enough to conquer, then Serbia is definitely worth it. Heck, they put so much effort into maintaining Black Sea fleet, it's ridiculous.

Oh look, we're the masters of this puddle, the lords of this bottle! The Turks hold the cork to the bottle, but that's okay, in the meantime we can project our might at Romania and Bulgaria.

Waste of money, if you ask me, but good for posturing.
03-03-2014, 17:39
Kagemusha

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvg

Not a problem. If Russia considers Crimea important enough to conquer, then Serbia is definitely worth it. Heck, they put so much effort into maintaining Black Sea fleet, it's ridiculous.

Oh look, we're the masters of this puddle, the lords of this bottle! The Turks hold the cork to the bottle, but that's okay, in the meantime we can project our might at Romania and Bulgaria.

Waste of money, if you ask me, but good for posturing.

Apparently you are wrong about where Putin is looking for next. According to The Telegraph UK, Putin has been last seen checking out Russian tanks and artillery near Viborg at Karelian Isthmus, near the Finnish- Russian border just moments a go....~;p

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...aine-live.html
03-03-2014, 17:45
rvg

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Apparently you are wrong about where Putin is looking for next. According to The Telegraph UK, Putin has been last seen checking out Russian tanks and artillery near Viborg at Karelian Isthmus, near the Finnish- Russian border just moments a go....~;p

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...aine-live.html

That just proves my point: Russia will take anything that isn't nailed down. The value of what they're taking in unimportant.

P.S. Join NATO. Now. If you know what's good for you.
03-03-2014, 17:47
Kagemusha

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvg

That just proves my point: Russia will take anything that isn't nailed down. The value of what they're taking in unimportant.

P.S. Join NATO. Now. If you know what's good for you.

I have shared your opinion concerning NATO as long as i can remember. If only the majority of my countrymen would share that feeling..
03-03-2014, 18:06
Sarmatian

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvg

Join NATO. Now. If you know what's good for you.

Whole grain, non-saturated fats, sugar-free drinks and lots of excercise. What's that got to do with NATO?
03-03-2014, 18:10
rvg

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Whole grain, non-saturated fats, sugar-free drinks and lots of excercise. What's that got to do with NATO?

You get to do all that as a free man.
03-03-2014, 18:12
Kagemusha

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Whole grain, non-saturated fats, sugar-free drinks and lots of excercise. What's that got to do with NATO?

You do realize that diet could have life threatening effects to a Finn, when our normal diet consists of Vodka and beer and basic exercise method is brawling in front of late night food stands. :inquisitive:
03-03-2014, 20:47
Montmorency

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

You get to do all that as a free man.

Umm...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUIuUEH4qTY
03-03-2014, 23:05
Slyspy

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvg

That just proves my point: Russia will take anything that isn't nailed down. The value of what they're taking in unimportant.

P.S. Join NATO. Now. If you know what's good for you.

It is the taking of it which has value.
03-03-2014, 23:12
Papewaio

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

So Crimea is a cunning ruse so Putins real plan of liberating Nokia from the fiendish clutches of Windoze can go off without a hitch.

:smoking:
03-03-2014, 23:27
HoreTore

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papewaio

So Crimea is a cunning ruse so Putins real plan of liberating Nokia from the fiendish clutches of Windoze can go off without a hitch.

:smoking:

Nokia still exist...?
03-03-2014, 23:30
Papewaio

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Nokia still exist...?

If its good enough for Colonialism it is good enough for Nokia.

Being an out of date anachronism in a modern world they is...
03-03-2014, 23:35
Pannonian

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papewaio

So Crimea is a cunning ruse so Putins real plan of liberating Nokia from the fiendish clutches of Windoze can go off without a hitch.

:smoking:

The soundtrack of the film would certainly be interesting. Is it possible to do an epic, military version of the Nokia theme?
03-04-2014, 00:20
Kadagar_AV

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvg

Not a problem. If Russia considers Crimea important enough to conquer, then Serbia is definitely worth it. Heck, they put so much effort into maintaining Black Sea fleet, it's ridiculous.

Oh look, we're the masters of this puddle, the lords of this bottle! The Turks hold the cork to the bottle, but that's okay, in the meantime we can project our might at Romania and Bulgaria.

Waste of money, if you ask me, but good for posturing.

You think Putin regrets spending money on the Black Sea fleet? An interesting notion.

I for one believe he is more like "We have a fleet here, you don't".

Try getting carrier groups through the bottleneck when you don't control the air.
03-04-2014, 00:27
gaelic cowboy

Re: Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I was talking offensively

Defensively, you'd need to fight through layers of armour and motor-rifle Brigades.

Offensively, though, there's an upper limit to the number of those formations Putin can employ - not least because he has to leave a large portion of his army facing China.

Charles XII was overconfident, and he wasn't expecting to face the reformed Russian army, Napoleon had already started to lose his marbles to a God complex and Hitler attacked prematurely and got bigged down in the snow.

Rule one to conquer Russia: Obey the seasons. If it wasn't possible, the Tsars couldn't have done it.

Rule number one is to conquer russia start from the east.
03-04-2014, 00:45
Pannonian

Re: Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Rule number one is to conquer russia start from the east.

Rule number two: Not too far east.
03-04-2014, 00:58
HopAlongBunny

Re: What can "The West" do if Russia expands?

Russia abandoning Sevastopol is as likely as the USA abandoning Hawaii.

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