Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

ok but she's also never wolf

what else ya got

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Uhhh two balls of lint, a spare button, and a paper clip

Haven't fully read all of today yet but I posted a proposed set of world yday. Annika dying is certainly a thing but doesn't affect that overmuch.

Bruh I was up till 4am last night but the worst thing is I somehow have mask by dream stuck in my head I don't even know how that happened someone just kill me

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Originally Posted by Maple

I'm suspecting I was blocked unless the person I invented to is just being very tight lipped about it

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No you weren't roleblocked.

I'm just trying to decide how much it even matters, especially with how visor's handeled his "track results"

i dont love that i linked a capage game, ender quoted it, and then dya posted 1269. I don't need everyone to have read everything but like... It was less than 20 posts ago, so it rlly does feel like they're just not caring. Idk if sloppiness is wolfiness though, they have clearly had time/irl stuff in play.
@EnderWiggin i'll talk to you about ben later. I need to figure out how to actually verbalize my concerns. Tonights task (for me) is to go through ladd/dya/lissa/ben/waza and unpack their approached to the game/my thots and concerns.
@Maple i rlly rlly need you to talk about anyone other than Taffy. I do not care if taffy is 3p today. I need ur inner Moze so i don't have to be worried this is bitch3

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Originally Posted by Maple

I did have concerns wrt sunbae on the level of *vibes* and us not talking on a similar level to we have on past games, but that sort of thing could be accounted for w/ sunbae just not being into the game and not really being here for the game. I'm still processing if this could be a reflection on aligment, cause I had initially believed that that was all it was.,

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Originally Posted by Maple

See thats exactly what I'm saying lol

You're contradicting and counterarguing with irrelevant things, such as how katz of all people push you. If you want to call my push on you OMGUS, that's fine by me.

In fact I'd say over the years I have a pretty good track record of doming wolves into a grave when they try going on me lol

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Originally Posted by Maple

i eated pizza life is good

idr the name of that like italian salted spicy meat but it had that on it

eepy af but dont wanna wait till tmr so yall are getting the tldr version of my v list, im somehwere along the lines of

visor
benneh
lissa
arctic
annika
dyachei

top half at the moment, mostly unordered. Rask cfd >>rand pure (there were strong viable counters in taffy/me/ladd/arctic(though arctic wasnt a *real*, viable wagon given waza+others were defending). upon review i think dya posted well enough not a whole lot of notes, concluded lissa v likely village we'll see if ive developed into a lissa specialist but i feel fairly confident about this one, and went through arctics posts itg vs some of our other previous games and came away thinking hes prooooob v (arctic also has a history of fucking TUNNELING me, so him *not* pushing me itg and being pretty medium to positive on me actually stood out originally lol)

i did end up looking back at hsr and a few other games, and i MAINTAIN that annika is factually wrong on a few matters (the way she boiled my read down sucked) for example wrt pushes because the push on her in both hsr and ftr for example strike similarly to me (just comparing two pushes from the same player, though the game formats/subs/well the ftr game was lowkey toxic in atmosphere due to how fucked hte game was) and that her treatment of my slot was BAD and didnt have the same villagery clueless curiosity that she exuded during the hsr game, but i concede that it is HIGHLY unlikely that she buses rask in that postion as one of the most important/pivotal voters there (she opened up the possibility of compromising w/ lissa, which effectively bought 2 votes). so just gonna take the L here and conclude that the incongruity i found is probably nai.

visor is a gentleman who paid for brunch with gets him a free pass and benneh is my n0

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Originally Posted by Maple

Eh Im just gonna send it

I'm an inventor and I gave nl a track last night. The whole *bombs* thing is a pretty funny coincidence.

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Originally Posted by Maple

im inventing to someone who is probably v who is probably not dying

surely i dont stack with the wolves for 2 days in a row again

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Originally Posted by didistetter

No you weren't roleblocked.

I'm just trying to decide how much it even matters, especially with how visor's handeled his "track results"

i dont love that i linked a capage game, ender quoted it, and then dya posted 1269. I don't need everyone to have read everything but like... It was less than 20 posts ago, so it rlly does feel like they're just not caring. Idk if sloppiness is wolfiness though, they have clearly had time/irl stuff in play.
@EnderWiggin i'll talk to you about ben later. I need to figure out how to actually verbalize my concerns. Tonights task (for me) is to go through ladd/dya/lissa/ben/waza and unpack their approached to the game/my thots and concerns.
@Maple i rlly rlly need you to talk about anyone other than Taffy. I do not care if taffy is 3p today. I need ur inner Moze so i don't have to be worried this is bitch3

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I don't have time to reread every post and I'm skimming when I'm feeding the kids and such. so like I guess get over it? not everyone has the time to be as involved as everyone else and I feel like I've made it clear. I'm trying to play catch up today and solve things and like I'm allowed to have paranoia of different players because I think i've been clearing them too easily.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If you must know, I have been getting Amy to bed by 7:30 and she's been tantruming until I get into thread every night. Then I'm medicating my very sick cat who had me worried he was going to pass over the weekend. I'm sorry I don't remember what was posted last night and this morning, the last week hasn't been my clearest headed.

I get that you don't know how to read me that well but do you really think I would kill the person I've been trying to elim in game days every night after pushing them? does that really seem that plausible?

I think it's worth wasting a post to say f*** the multiquote function here

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Originally Posted by Maple

vote: taffy

straight meowted honestly this is never village


poor wittle arcy going over here but w/e we still have 2 wolves to find (im preflipping him v because i hate all of you)

annika + ender
benneh + ender/zelda
lissa + ladd?/ender

for bus worlds. i havent thought about visor or stett worlds much but who cares theyre v

non bus worlds its gotta be some combination of ender/zelda/ladd maaaaaaaaaaybe waza but he feels pretty v but like idk he could be playing lik a psycho this game mayyyybeeeeee dyachei but grrrr taht implies my reads are shit

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Yeah thinking it over some, the Annika kill amplifies my concerns about benneh here. It maintains the status quo and removes someone who was fairly unlikely to go over. I'm guessing nl got a "no where" result on someone who isnt particularly helpful getting that sorta result on.

My money is on he tracked lissa.

So not particularly help, but not literally meowted either, in either case.

Thinking I was right about dya and waza wolves being fairly implausible. Think dya has posted well today and has been fine most days.

vote: ladd

but no

this still feels right

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Originally Posted by Maple

Yeah thinking it over some, the Annika kill amplifies my concerns about benneh here. It maintains the status quo and removes someone who was fairly unlikely to go over. I'm guessing nl got a "no where" result on someone who isnt particularly helpful getting that sorta result on.

My money is on he tracked lissa.

So not particularly help, but not literally meowted either, in either case.

Thinking I was right about dya and waza wolves being fairly implausible. Think dya has posted well today and has been fine most days.

vote: ladd

but no

this still feels right

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why do you think I've posted well today? I think I've posted all over the place and feel directionless

im having a lot of troubles putting it to words, it just feels right that ladd would be a wolf here lol

between how d1 went down and just a general *lacking*ness. meow meow this isnt convincing at al i know but hopefully i get a second wind and can actually put the pen to paper

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Originally Posted by dyachei

why do you think I've posted well today? I think I've posted all over the place and feel directionless

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yeah you arent posting like a wolf

i think it *makes sense* that you would be sus of me, particularly the uh chronology of my eod yesterday

its just unfortunate timing, ultimately, but the rushedness and me trying to push into the game when it was sorta inevitable seem like things you wouldnt like

shrug im sorta posting like dogshit here and i recognize that

idk i need to sleep for 13 hours then maybe i'll be good to go

stett, just ftr, i think you'd have a lot easier time finding me if you just worked with me rather than holding a blanket concern about tinfoil worlds and talking around me like you have basically since slightly after SOD1. you're trying to solve me based off of how the game has flown but you have a good grasp on how i play the game philosophically and via interacting with me so i wish you'd do that

noting this could probably apply to several players that i am reading, so its not a shot at you and the appeal itself is obvious nai, i don't expect you to read this and be like "wow ok concerns dropped!" but i feel like you know how i town and how i wolf and you are just worried cause i'm a good wolf sometimes. but its pretty frustrating you have been playing around me all game cause you're worried i'm pocketing you when

idk i'd implore you to look at eod1 tbh. i was trying to parrot you and/or annika about killing ladd or maple day 1 and then we all ended up on rask. how likely is it you think ladd/maple has 0 wolves? if its highly likely then feel free to continue sussing me ig, but that's not how i see the worlds right now? and there's a different scenario day 1 where instead of landing on a shrugyeet of a wolf, you/me/annika all work together and hit on one of them who is a wolf. if i'm a 3rd wolf in that potential pairing what the fuck am i doing and how do you process that vs what you know about how i wolf lol

(ftr i know you're not super super concerned so this is LESS about you needing to lock town me and MORE about you playing the game with me. its kinda what i signed up for homie)

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Each night, target a player (you may self-target). If they are the same alignment as you, defuse any bombs strapped to them. You are told when you successfully defuse a bomb. If you target a villager with a bomb strapped to them on the night they die, only their alignment will be shown when they flip.

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good lord i have misinterpreted the latter half of this role almost all game, i read it as "if you target a villager with strapped bomb you kill them" not that you janitor their role

uhhhhhhhhhh

fuck me lol

what the fuck is the point of a hyper specific town role janitor if the roles are:

2x town redirect
1x tracker inventor which can be easily confirmed??????
1x town arsonist/bomb strapper

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uh, i guess this may lend credence to the idea that someone couldn't be a tracker and was FPSing if they got a track off in thread and then died over night as just Town

but the realities of this happening seem way to specific for general game design lol

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

good lord i have misinterpreted the latter half of this role almost all game, i read it as "if you target a villager with strapped bomb you kill them" not that you janitor their role

uhhhhhhhhhh

fuck me lol

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@didistetter @ladd @Lissa @Maple @dyachei @Visor

did you all correctly read the latter half of this, actually?
are we sure taffy has to be a village with this implementation?

if the tracks are real (well, we know tracks are real) -- why couldn't taffy be a mafia arsonist who sometimes can choose to target mafia for purposes of tracking since a wolf teammate would have ways to remove those douses on a future night?

before anyone suggests this is another gotcha moment, i am just spitballing cause i obviously fucked up the interpretation of that role

but taffy being a misclear off shoddy mechanics would somewhat make sense of the POE which otherwise seems hard to pair down

the only reason i thought that role was entirely clearing of being mafia was because i took rask's role to be a way for mafia to have gated KP (e.g. they could ignite a town/3p douse, which kinda served as the 'anti-claim' that taffy was talking about)

but since mafia don't actually ignite the town, why can't this just be part of their role set?

brother ive been calling taffy meowted for a hot minute

and yes, i was aware that it's a jani

actually that would explain a post you made

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Originally Posted by Maple

brother ive been calling taffy meowted for a hot minute

and yes, i was aware that it's a jani

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if you think that then why are you pushing ladd

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

if you think that then why are you pushing ladd

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people dont wanna kill her because she's just 3p or w/e nonsense people have been saying

she certainly aint v so who cares idgi im still annoyed taht like 2 or 3 other people got to arctic v yday and none of them voted with me

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Originally Posted by dyachei

visor - well he's not really doing much this game. I'm sure that's why I'm in the POE, too. But like he comes in and makes proclamations without really explaining them and it makes it hard to do much with him

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I don't think this is fair? I can remember a lot more of Visor's pushes/reads than of yours, at any rate. If anything I'd say he's being more communicative than I'm used to, and you are less so.

I honestly don't think either is AI since you're both good at both alignments and your activity is probably more influenced by real life / available time than by anything else.

Maybe this is another case like that time with Baudib where I just couldn't see what you were talking about but please make a more fleshed out read on Visor. For example, he made pushes on both Arctic (flipped town) and Stett (your top townread) D1, I'd like you to look at those and comment on his reasoning there. Look at Visor's posts yesterday before and after my claim, before and after Benneh thought he'd caught Arctic in a lie, does he seem like he had tmi anywhere? Or, have a chat with him bc I remember you saying that's how you read people best.

Don't just shrug-poe ppl that's how we'd lose.

Taffy (3)

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Originally Posted by Maple

people dont wanna kill her because she's just 3p or w/e nonsense people have been saying

she certainly aint v so who cares idgi im still annoyed taht like 2 or 3 other people got to arctic v yday and none of them voted with me

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well speaking generally, it'd be a big dum dum move for wanting to kill her so hard on day 2 if she's only ever 'not town' aka 'only has 3p equity' with 2 wolves alive and your infatuation with that resolving that as if its a priority world is one of the more wolfy things about you

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Originally Posted by ladd

vote:lissa

Gonna get back to sleep. Monday is busy so prolly will do re reading on tuesday but like I really believe there isnt much space for wolves to hide if people start taking stuff at face value

Dya wouldnt make that post @ sunbae as a wolf - they are a villager. Sometimes its that easy

Benneh is consistently solving in a genuine way, they are a villager

Stett is cleared by everyone who knows them well, they are a villager

Waza posting consistently villagery all game, they are a villager

Zelda pushing unusual angles and displaying paranoia and weird theories at every step, they are a villager

Taffy claim cannot be a wolf p much, they are a villager (or 3p but who cares rn)

Visor has been playing the agitator and having original pushes all game, they are a villager (probably)

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And in a similar vein I'd like you to look closer at Dyachei. "Ladd says town bc meta on one post" is perfectly fine for D1, but they've done stuff, we've had flips, tell me why they're town from how they treated Arctic/Annika/Sunbae.

The two of you are expressing almost diametrically opposed views on Visor's play this game and you're not talking to eachother about it, this is bothering me.

Taffy (4)

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Originally Posted by waza

Tbh I think town!you would probs have been killed last night if Ben or lissa is a wolf

I can go into more of the details but I think you not dieing and Annika dieing looks worse for maple/ender pairing and better for a dya/ben pairing

(Btw when I say pairing I don’t mean there has to be two in each pair but like hopefully one)

The other implication is that ur the wolf lmao but err I think I lean more in to being maple>ender>lisor=visor

Everyone else is pmuch town imo

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I don't need details per se but can you make clear to me whether you mean "it's more likely that Maple and Ender are paired now" or "Maple and Ender are more likely to be wolves" or entirely the opposite.

It's probably just a language barrier but I don't know what you mean from your sentence.

Taffy (5)

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

I don't need details per se but can you make clear to me whether you mean "it's more likely that Maple and Ender are paired now" or "Maple and Ender are more likely to be wolves" or entirely the opposite.

It's probably just a language barrier but I don't know what you mean from your sentence.

Taffy (5)

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he clarifies in the next sentence you highlighted--it does not mean those are paired w/w but that it looks better/worse for each individual within that pair.

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

EOD1?

They had 0 consideration about what else was happening. They basically had like maybe 2 or 3 posts that weren't just re-iterations of anti-Annika statements.

Which is an easy tunnel way of ignoring all other wagons. Annika mentioned the other wagons and gave reads around it but Maple's entire focus was just discrediting and pushing Annika.

"Small footprint" is a wolftell I still use to this day because even good wolves fall into it without realising.

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I was actually just going to thank your post and move on, but could you look at and compare Visor/Ladd/Dyachei/Stett's footprints for me? I know this is a lot of work so no worries if you don't have time - just in case ppl decide to kill you today and you're wondering what legacy would be most useful, for me it's this.

Taffy (6)

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

@didistetter @ladd @Lissa @Maple @dyachei @Visor

did you all correctly read the latter half of this, actually?
are we sure taffy has to be a village with this implementation?

if the tracks are real (well, we know tracks are real) -- why couldn't taffy be a mafia arsonist who sometimes can choose to target mafia for purposes of tracking since a wolf teammate would have ways to remove those douses on a future night?

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Yes i read it correctly


Yes i still dont see how taffy is a wolf, since 1)why d u need to be notifies if yiu successfully defuse a bomb if the bomber is same alignment and yiu and 2) i dont see the point of making such a complex combo just to janitor



I dont believe a word manti is saying (and like benneh pointed out if tehy feel so strongly about taffy not being a villager going after me makes no sense ghven how d1 played out)


@Totally not Taffy sometimes 1 post is enuf (but i also think they have posted well today and yday at eod). Idk who you are talking about that has the opposute visor read as me?

Visor is not a priority for me to look at right now so what you get is what you get taffy. I'm more concerned with manti, Ladd, and lissa.

Ben I missed that part entirely but idk if taffy pov makes sense as a wolf? Like why claim that role as a wolf?

Manti is just a wolf who latched onto something they could spin as wolfy (taffy vest stuff at eod) and blew it completely out of proportion. They did the same thing eod1 with annika


I genuinely dont care bout their claim, its nai. their posts are just super wolfy

I made the mistake of caring about arctic claim even tho they were posting villagery but no more. I am back at applying apoc school of werewolfing

I am fine with manti dying I guess

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

I think I'm happy with me/Lissa/Maple poe? I do think I've been letting Waza/Ladd go a little. Taffy's not wolf. Benneh's not wolf. Dya's not wolf. (I think) Pzelda is probably not a wolf (but god that theory on me was atrocious) Stett I keep getting paranoia about but everyone else agrees that they're town so I'm just telling myself to shut up there.

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+1

If I had bombed last night, it'd probably have been Stett.
Bc EoD1 she immediately bought and defended Arctic as PR (and I'm not dismissing the chance that Sunbae died defending him), combined with the plan(s) to keep him alive - it looks like she just couldn't see him as a wolf when everyone else could. And then yesterday's repeated begging at EoD not to bomb Annika only for her to end up dead - that's very much a move I've seen wolves do.

So no you're not alone.
But if anything I'm not a hero shooter.

Taffy (7)

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

before anyone suggests this is another gotcha moment, i am just spitballing cause i obviously fucked up the interpretation of that role

but taffy being a misclear off shoddy mechanics would somewhat make sense of the POE which otherwise seems hard to pair down

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I suggest Taffy should be more involved in solving the game. I'm more likely to lock them town for that tnan for a claim. Tbh with your observation it would make some sense for them to be aligned with mafia. Basically, it could be that anti-claim mechanic. Douse a player and then janitor them while killing that. Do you think it would make sense balance wise?

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Originally Posted by ladd

Yes i read it correctly


Yes i still dont see how taffy is a wolf, since 1)why d u need to be notifies if yiu successfully defuse a bomb if the bomber is same alignment and yiu and 2) i dont see the point of making such a complex combo just to janitor



I dont believe a word manti is saying (and like benneh pointed out if tehy feel so strongly about taffy not being a villager going after me makes no sense ghven how d1 played out)


@Totally not Taffy sometimes 1 post is enuf (but i also think they have posted well today and yday at eod). Idk who you are talking about that has the opposute visor read as me?

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very fair, only really makes sense in the world there is a town rb/jk and i imagine one of those woulda claimed by now

Btw taffy, what's your take on Visor? You asked Dya and Ladd a whole bunch of questions, but I have to admit I would like to know your take too.

brb throwing myself into the ocean

From what i re read (bit and pieces) ender is the second wolfiest poster itt

Their strongest wolfread on arctic was a classic example of a read that felt justified AFTER it actually started. Like ender wolfread arctic for a single post d1 but then d2 he made a whole wall for why artic was a wolf that was incredibky nitpicky and taking everything at its worst possible interpretation

Their vote on me today is justified by 1 silly reasons (beacause i slipped there is an arso? Lmao cmn brah) and lacking any sort of holistic view of my posting



Third guess would still be lissa but they have sunbae read and some okay posting during not eods going for them

Everyone else is villa. I rechecked eod and stett/benneh arent wolves. Zelda too pure. Dya too pure in some spots and showing some classic villa dya signs. Taffy not a wolf.

Like if i REALLY wanted to tinfoil someone it'be waza or visor but waza has been asking the right questions, posting good thoughts, being his villa self all game and visor idk what he is doing since d2 (guess just busy) but idt this is how he plays as a wolf




Also annika has been the best villager this game. So many good posts and reads d1

im gona guess manti is a wolf arso that douses and gives a track to the same player but they can't ever ignite or alternately they ignite only when they die

so rip visor and stett in that world

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Originally Posted by didistetter

@Totally not Taffy what made you think visor tracked you?

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The fact that he was/is keeping his target close to his chest, which to me means either a) he caught the NK and he wanted to give them time to spew more, or b) he tracked someone who hadn't posted yet when you asked and wanted to see if he could catch them in a lie (and I was one of the ppl who hadn't posted yet) - for example if he'd seen me do nothing but I'd claimed to have doused someone he'd have known I was lying. Or, if I'd doused someone but gotten NKed it might've been good for town to still know where the bomb was.

Taffy (8)

I'm going to waste one more post on mechanics before returning to my reread.

I can see a point of having a complicated janitor. It would give mafia half a killing role. There would be always an interesting decision for them to either explode a player or lose that extra kill and go with the janitor. I don't know how this combination jives with 2 half lightning rods and a inventor (unreliable informative + protective role).
The other thing is that the janitor is only hiding roles. So, ladd's probably right, because it would only make sense to use to hide a mafia role to me. Accidently janitoring town might be pro-town.

Ok, I feel like dropping this notion and returning to Taffy v/3p.

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Originally Posted by Visor

Has anyone got anything from manti today

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Not yet, and given her assertions yesterday that I'm so very much outed and needed to be killed, I want to know which revelation she had that changed that (assuming it changed from her SoD).


Taffy (9)

Also, to sum up where I'm at (I think it might be slightly confusing for you)
Towncore (I just don't consider entertaining a vote) - benneh, dya, stett
3p/town - Taffy
Towny players I find myself agreeing with a lot and I also find them quite towny, but he thread makes me feel like I should doubt them - ladd
Players I found towny and want them to be town, but can see them flipping mafia - Visor
Players I found to be clear towns earlier but I'm reconsidering them now - waza, lissa
Possible wolves, but they also are miselim baits aka it feels too easy - Maple, Ender

Based on this tier list max one wolf in Maple, Ender tbh. I would say my list is quite consensus, maybe too consensus.
Ladd is an interesting one. Quite a few players have voted him over the course of the day and I actually find him townier than most of them rn. So, maybe I should consider these votes.

The problem with Ender (and with Manti to some extent) is that they're wolfy. Can they be wolves? Yes Can they be wolfy towns manufacturing reads? Absolutely. So, it's natural they are in the poe, but we should be trying to find something they would have no need to do as wolves. Like Ender making quite a few drive by hottakes around page 9 without any pressure on him.

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

im gona guess manti is a wolf arso that douses and gives a track to the same player but they can't ever ignite or alternately they ignite only when they die

so rip visor and stett in that world

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thats craaaaaazy

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

im gona guess manti is a wolf arso that douses and gives a track to the same player but they can't ever ignite or alternately they ignite only when they die

so rip visor and stett in that world

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Did stett claim they got something

btw people, tell me if I'm misgendering you or if I'm using wrong pronouns. I forgot to ask early on. I know Benneh, Visor, Ender, ladd, sunbae, Rask should prefer he. I remember Manti using he as well, but Lissa is using she for them. Lissa used to be she. Is it still the case? Dya they/she. The rest I have no idea.

I mostly use he/him btw.

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Originally Posted by pzelda

btw people, tell me if I'm misgendering you or if I'm using wrong pronouns. I forgot to ask early on. I know Benneh, Visor, Ender, ladd, sunbae, Rask should prefer he. I remember Manti using he as well, but Lissa is using she for them. Lissa used to be she. Is it still the case? Dya they/she. The rest I have no idea.

I mostly use he/him btw.

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I prefer go/at

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Originally Posted by ladd

@Totally not Taffy sometimes 1 post is enuf (but i also think they have posted well today and yday at eod). Idk who you are talking about that has the opposute visor read as me?

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Dyachei.

You say "Visor has been playing the agitator and having original pushes all game" and they say "he's not really doing much this game" those two are completely opposite

So I'd expect you to notice it and talk about that to eachother. And afaict you're not. It's uncritical treatment of eachother and you're two keen players.

Taffy (10)

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Originally Posted by pzelda

Btw taffy, what's your take on Visor? You asked Dya and Ladd a whole bunch of questions, but I have to admit I would like to know your take too.

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I think Visor is town bc of how he's posting. I thought the inaccuracy he pointed out in Arctic's D1 case (against Visor) was justified and I'm sure he'd have made that post as either alignment. If I get round to reading D2 I might change my mind if I feel like he was standing aside and letting the town circus happen, but his posts today are also very towny. So for the time being Visor lives in the "don't vote till FX" category, together with you, Ender, Happy, and Benneh.

Taffy (11)

I've just recalled Visor's w meta here. He was mostly pocketing old school org/civfans players by reacting to their posts with this emoji :bow:
Also, I'm locking Lissa town and I feel good about it. If I'm wrong I'm leaving mafia forever. My reasons can be found if you click the button.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lissa's been posting well posting reads and all, but I'm not sure just yet if she's trying to solve the game as well. If there are any conclusions.
Waza talking about bussing rask is scary.
#281 is a mindmeld with Lissa on Visor.
Lissa on page 10 is super pleasant, but there's nothing I should lock her town for.
#292 dunno but I don't like this post. On one hand the read on Manti is written in a very flowing way. On the other hand It says nothing. And the question at the end. It makes sense but it also feels a little bit ad hoc.
I should comment on tracks I like. I love Big Thief for example.
I like Lissa's posts here overall. I townlean them, but It might not be enough at this point
Lissa's reaction to sunbae (calling stett town) feels charitable in a villa way.
There's some content in Maple's posts, but man is it burried.
I really like Lissa basically villareading everyone midday 1 that's a STRONG TOWN TELL tbh.
tbh I think I scumread @Sunbae because they're such a good villager it looked fake. They were miles ahead.

Ok, a stupid Lissa meta read. She entered this game after winning as a wolf. She was very charitable with her reads d1 and found everyone villagery midday 1. That would never happen if she were a wolf. I'm locking her town and I'm ready to fight with anyone voting her.

Manti's response to the same post (#322) isn't as towny. I find it interesting that Manti calls Ender town for the second time.
Ladd's overlooking some stuff. It feels like low effort villageing more than like a wolf staying on a surface level.

Visor dropping his Annika v lean when they got under pressure and voted by several town leaders is noteworthy.

pages 9-12 btw. I'm a slow reader.
I think my poe at this point is visor/waza/maple/ender with the focus on the former two.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

I think Visor is town bc of how he's posting. I thought the inaccuracy he pointed out in Arctic's D1 case (against Visor) was justified and I'm sure he'd have made that post as either alignment. If I get round to reading D2 I might change my mind if I feel like he was standing aside and letting the town circus happen, but his posts today are also very towny. So for the time being Visor lives in the "don't vote till FX" category, together with you, Ender, Happy, and Benneh.

Taffy (11)

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It still feels like he's standing aside not really helping town on the right course. Also, pointing out inaccuracies in a case aimed at you is easy tbh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

btw people, tell me if I'm misgendering you or if I'm using wrong pronouns. I forgot to ask early on. I know Benneh, Visor, Ender, ladd, sunbae, Rask should prefer he. I remember Manti using he as well, but Lissa is using she for them. Lissa used to be she. Is it still the case? Dya they/she. The rest I have no idea.

I mostly use he/him btw.

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I'm generally pretty ok with all pronouns bc it's interesting to me to see how I come across to ppl. The one exception is "it" bc I'm a person, not an object, and for similar reasons I dislike it when ppl don't capitalise my name.

Taffy (12)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

It still feels like he's standing aside not really helping town on the right course. Also, pointing out inaccuracies in a case aimed at you is easy tbh.

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Yeah my point about the case there was mostly that it's NAI and I don't hold it against him.
What would you like him to do in order to help town get on the right course?

Taffy (13)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maple

vote: taffy

straight meowted honestly this is never village


poor wittle arcy going over here but w/e we still have 2 wolves to find (im preflipping him v because i hate all of you)

annika + ender
benneh + ender/zelda
lissa + ladd?/ender

for bus worlds. i havent thought about visor or stett worlds much but who cares theyre v

non bus worlds its gotta be some combination of ender/zelda/ladd maaaaaaaaaaybe waza but he feels pretty v but like idk he could be playing lik a psycho this game mayyyybeeeeee dyachei but grrrr taht implies my reads are shit

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@Maple how did you get to these specific pairings?

Taffy (14)

Also, I'm kicking Dya out of towncore for now tbh. Btw It's not because of the low levels of activity. It's because of the content of these early posts being kind of weak sauce. I liked them earlier, but I admit I was influenced by my ancient meta on dya (which I love and I tried to play like her in several games).

I hope your cat's doing better btw.

Next point
That last d1 post from waza is something. The section dedicated to Rask is weird? Like he needed to justify the vote, maybe even call out rask a little bit. I admit I might be doing that tunnel vision thing now. Nothing he couldn't write as town.
Calling Sunbae wolf and at the same point declaring that he won't vote there is iffy. Stick to your guns, goes the saying.
And then it's just a pile of words. It feels a lot like a wall made for the sake of posting one. There are some good bits but the overall town is like I could imagine voting most of these players. Not too many townreads. I want to vote now waza tbh.

Vote: waza

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

@didistetter @ladd @Lissa @Maple @dyachei @Visor

did you all correctly read the latter half of this, actually?
are we sure taffy has to be a village with this implementation?

if the tracks are real (well, we know tracks are real) -- why couldn't taffy be a mafia arsonist who sometimes can choose to target mafia for purposes of tracking since a wolf teammate would have ways to remove those douses on a future night?

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@nebjiamn yes i correctly read it. The only world taffy is a wolf is like... lost wolf? The need to diffuse mafia at all doesn't coexist well with maf bomber


also to clarify: i did not get a track from Maple. dif invention,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Totally not Taffy

+1

If I had bombed last night, it'd probably have been Stett.
Bc EoD1 she immediately bought and defended Arctic as PR (and I'm not dismissing the chance that Sunbae died defending him), combined with the plan(s) to keep him alive - it looks like she just couldn't see him as a wolf when everyone else could. And then yesterday's repeated begging at EoD not to bomb Annika only for her to end up dead - that's very much a move I've seen wolves do.

So no you're not alone.
But if anything I'm not a hero shooter.

Taffy (7)

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ah yes checks notes lemme: kill my 0 posting mafia parter while defending you + arctic, nk sunbae who had me top town, try to start a wagon on someone i dont townread to counter the vote on someone i do, yell at you like 10 times to not douse annika, nk annika who had me as top town.

.... sick wolf play :wall:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

very fair, only really makes sense in the world there is a town rb/jk and i imagine one of those woulda claimed by now

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@nebjiamn

uh well

so

manti gave me a jailkeep.

dunno if track + jk inventor makes the world more functional for you or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

stett, just ftr, i think you'd have a lot easier time finding me if you just worked with me rather than holding a blanket concern about tinfoil worlds and talking around me like you have basically since slightly after SOD1. you're trying to solve me based off of how the game has flown but you have a good grasp on how i play the game philosophically and via interacting with me so i wish you'd do that

noting this could probably apply to several players that i am reading, so its not a shot at you and the appeal itself is obvious nai, i don't expect you to read this and be like "wow ok concerns dropped!" but i feel like you know how i town and how i wolf and you are just worried cause i'm a good wolf sometimes. but its pretty frustrating you have been playing around me all game cause you're worried i'm pocketing you when

idk i'd implore you to look at eod1 tbh. i was trying to parrot you and/or annika about killing ladd or maple day 1 and then we all ended up on rask. how likely is it you think ladd/maple has 0 wolves? if its highly likely then feel free to continue sussing me ig, but that's not how i see the worlds right now? and there's a different scenario day 1 where instead of landing on a shrugyeet of a wolf, you/me/annika all work together and hit on one of them who is a wolf. if i'm a 3rd wolf in that potential pairing what the fuck am i doing and how do you process that vs what you know about how i wolf lol

(ftr i know you're not super super concerned so this is LESS about you needing to lock town me and MORE about you playing the game with me. its kinda what i signed up for homie)

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i agree that your eod felt towny.

I think my problem is: the bit of ate d2 kinda shook me, and I 10000% you would have those emotions as town, but it kinda threw me back to indie mash where, when i solved around you I was mostly right, but when i fell for a ate moment and started solving with you you were indeed wolf and you stated talking me out of all my correct scumreads.

I think the problem i'm really struggling with rn is:
maple is making herself impossible to find by just tunneling taffy for the most part and being bored with the game. It's hard for me to process.
I think both pzelda and ender have been towny. I think lissa has fallen off and i really struggled with her handling of arctic yesterday.
I kinda have you/ladd as both sounding good and speaking well, but I struggle hard with the directions yall take.

Like
Ladd pushed taffy D1 and a bit D2.
He's now pushing maple as wolf and ender as second wolf.
Maybe this is another stett is bad and wrong and needs to stfu like a good girl moment but... Realistically i see a world that's three town. And his strong defense of you is pinging me, b/c i'm not sure if it's just correct, if it's pockety, or if it actually does have pair equity.

I also, no shade, really really didn't like his catchup posts "relooking" at the whole game yesterday, and the thoughts felt kinda shallow/performative.

This is an incredibly fucking stupid thing to be worried about but i didn't like your post questioning me on why I asked about millers b/c it kinda feels like you'd normally say "lol stett is softing cop and is vt, polarized noob L"... but maybe that means you're uninformed

I do agree that you seemed down to kill ladd eod1, but it's hard to full eval when you were postcapped so it's mostly vote swinging. I'm p sure I also explicitly said I didn't actually want to kill ladd while he was AFK for being seemingly wrong on Taffy, so im not sure how much juice that actually had.

It's more my concern now that you're focusing on maple, who doesn't seem particularly fussed to play the game, than ladd: who fits more into the profile of a maf in this gamestate to me

anyways i appreciate you and im sorry if it feels like I've been stonewalling you. I'm kinda bad at doing like... big dissection solvy wally posts nowadays.

vote: ladd

Ok, I should stop wasting posts on bits like this, but I think that the distribution of waffles is:

1-2 in waza, Visor, dya
0-1 in Manti, Ender

There's this hint of doubt in the way Manti townread Ender, but... he could do that as town or push it as his v read for whatever reason as wolf. I wouldn't use that to associate them.
I'm more interested if I can figure out more about waza, dya and Visor. I think they're where we should focus. Like ender and manti are players we're never removing from poe for their posts only (I'm sorry if it's too harsh).

I'm still rereading while writing this and p15 ender looks kinda good. He was laid-back and he was quickshooting posts showing his process. I'm not putting him into my towncore, but I again have a different reason to town lean him.

#450 tbh reads like a :book2: w/w interaction from Visor.
#544 is a great post. I want to be as good as Sunbae. 1-2 wolves in waza/visor/dya but not waza+dya makes sense and it makes the game easier.
#555 I want to tr Manti for this post.

Waza voting rask several times is little too much.
Visor voted for Rask at a crucial time makes him look better. Oh, this game's difficult. I was arriving at dya/visor, but I will need more to call them wolves. Visor trending up, at least slightly, with that vote. Does dya make sense without Visor to me with manti? I'm not sure tbh. I don't think so. Visor makes sense with more players and Waza makes sense with Manti or Visor.

Oh, Ladd being a wolf for pushing low hanging fruit and being too consensus is an interesting take.
I don't think I will follow (def not now) it but I like your thinking there.

I also like your point about Maple being bored with the game. That probably makes them town.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35RyOQhTqzI

:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 3 - Votes from post 1171 through 1341

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Maple	ladd (15), nebjiamn (31), waza (7)
3	ladd	EnderWiggin (8), Maple (19), didistetter (21)
2	Lissa	Visor (11), dyachei (20)
1	waza	pzelda (21)
2	Not Voting	Lissa (1), Totally not Taffy (14)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dyachei

ben, I'm almost never gonna be able to make EOD because Amy refuses to go to bed reasonably.

Idk how to read taffy so if anyone has some tips there lmk

I am pretty concerned about ladd but felt better about him at EOD

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btw ladd/dya not w/w.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gemma

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35RyOQhTqzI

:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 3 - Votes from post 1171 through 1341

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Maple	ladd (15), nebjiamn (31), waza (7)
3	ladd	EnderWiggin (8), Maple (19), didistetter (21)
2	Lissa	Visor (11), dyachei (20)
1	waza	pzelda (21)
2	Not Voting	Lissa (1), Totally not Taffy (14)

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Interesting votes!!!
That Ladd wagon has both Maple and Ender on it.
Lissa collected votes from both Dya and Visor (I know it's not Dya and Visor despite that one post from Visor)
I would say 1 wolf in Maple voters!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

btw ladd/dya not w/w.

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For that? Lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

For that? Lol

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I think there was a post dya was responding to? I already managed to forget. But tbh I've just been considering ladd/dya..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

i agree that your eod felt towny.

I think my problem is: the bit of ate d2 kinda shook me, and I 10000% you would have those emotions as town, but it kinda threw me back to indie mash where, when i solved around you I was mostly right, but when i fell for a ate moment and started solving with you you were indeed wolf and you stated talking me out of all my correct scumreads.

I think the problem i'm really struggling with rn is:
maple is making herself impossible to find by just tunneling taffy for the most part and being bored with the game. It's hard for me to process.
I think both pzelda and ender have been towny. I think lissa has fallen off and i really struggled with her handling of arctic yesterday.
I kinda have you/ladd as both sounding good and speaking well, but I struggle hard with the directions yall take.

Like
Ladd pushed taffy D1 and a bit D2.
He's now pushing maple as wolf and ender as second wolf.
Maybe this is another stett is bad and wrong and needs to stfu like a good girl moment but... Realistically i see a world that's three town. And his strong defense of you is pinging me, b/c i'm not sure if it's just correct, if it's pockety, or if it actually does have pair equity.

I also, no shade, really really didn't like his catchup posts "relooking" at the whole game yesterday, and the thoughts felt kinda shallow/performative.

I do agree that you seemed down to kill ladd eod1, but it's hard to full eval when you were postcapped so it's mostly vote swinging. I'm p sure I also explicitly said I didn't actually want to kill ladd while he was AFK for being seemingly wrong on Taffy, so im not sure how much juice that actually had.

It's more my concern now that you're focusing on maple, who doesn't seem particularly fussed to play the game, than ladd: who fits more into the profile of a maf in this gamestate to me

anyways i appreciate you and im sorry if it feels like I've been stonewalling you. I'm kinda bad at doing like... big dissection solvy wally posts nowadays.

vote: ladd

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it sounds like we are nearly exactly the same in world views. i think something perhaps not immediately palpable in my posts is that i very much see the current world as somewhat of a diff check on maple/ladd but its hard to really want to solve the ladd worlds when manti is posting how they are/have been. their posts, paticularly eod1 at annika and how uncharitable they are. their direction at eod2 with wanting to cfd taffy and also kinda soft pushing arctic (while then claiming arctic town) and sussing annika.

but i agree that ladd is very concerning and idk if you'vpe read my take on his game or not but it pretty much is still there.

lets try to tackle this from another angle: we share the same currency but we're looking at two different sides of the coin. I don't think manti is lock wolf but help me see the worlds where you see ladd as more likely? i thinka lazier and/or wolfier me would probably be like "manti is a lost cause if town" but rather than ascribe those kinda connotations tell me why we should point the gun at ladd over manti today (and preferably without referencing mech)?

(ftr i wouldn't entirely discount them being w/w when I say i see them as somewhat of a diff check but i dont really care about that today, solving for teams is kinda meh with the vote logic that we have)

Quote:

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This is an incredibly fucking stupid thing to be worried about but i didn't like your post questioning me on why I asked about millers b/c it kinda feels like you'd normally say "lol stett is softing cop and is vt, polarized noob L"... but maybe that means you're uninformed

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stett you big dummy that post is like a continuation of your manti cop posting in bean, i am fully right to be freaked the fuck out by that shit lol

Ladd d1 felt little off tbh. My impression was that they could be a pr.. Today I quite like them but I also admit they might be too consensus.

Also, I'm heading to bed.

My poe is waza/dya/visor/ladd now.
Ender probably just town.
I'm not sure about maple, but they're not out of some generic town meta tbh. Them being bored as town explains a lot tbh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by didistetter

@nebjiamn

uh well

so

manti gave me a jailkeep.

dunno if track + jk inventor makes the world more functional for you or not.

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idrc -- there's just too many hoops and variables and unknowns to jump through to try to rationalize the setupand speculate what gemma is thinking but good to know

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

btw ladd/dya not w/w.

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IMO that actually is one of the more pairing posts for them. it amkes a lot of sense for dya to do some distancing with w!ladd at sod2 given taffy's EOD and a lot of heat expected to come ladd's way as day 2 begins. and their response about how they felt better for him finding them before eod was a bit lackluster.

i don't really wana go down that well but if push comes to shove this isn't something worth clearing a dya/ladd team from existence imo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

IMO that actually is one of the more pairing posts for them. it amkes a lot of sense for dya to do some distancing with w!ladd at sod2 given taffy's EOD and a lot of heat expected to come ladd's way as day 2 begins. and their response about how they felt better for him finding them before eod was a bit lackluster.

i don't really wana go down that well but if push comes to shove this isn't something worth clearing a dya/ladd team from existence imo

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Where are you at on waza

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

btw people, tell me if I'm misgendering you or if I'm using wrong pronouns. I forgot to ask early on. I know Benneh, Visor, Ender, ladd, sunbae, Rask should prefer he. I remember Manti using he as well, but Lissa is using she for them. Lissa used to be she. Is it still the case? Dya they/she. The rest I have no idea.

I mostly use he/him btw.

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I honestly don't care.

I was considering swapping to Maple again but 3/3 tie good. (Wolfy excuse)
@Totally not Taffy
Don't have energy for that atm. Will think about doing later

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pzelda

Also, I'm kicking Dya out of towncore for now tbh. Btw It's not because of the low levels of activity. It's because of the content of these early posts being kind of weak sauce. I liked them earlier, but I admit I was influenced by my ancient meta on dya (which I love and I tried to play like her in several games).

I hope your cat's doing better btw.

Next point
That last d1 post from waza is something. The section dedicated to Rask is weird? Like he needed to justify the vote, maybe even call out rask a little bit. I admit I might be doing that tunnel vision thing now. Nothing he couldn't write as town.
Calling Sunbae wolf and at the same point declaring that he won't vote there is iffy. Stick to your guns, goes the saying.
And then it's just a pile of words. It feels a lot like a wall made for the sake of posting one. There are some good bits but the overall town is like I could imagine voting most of these players. Not too many townreads. I want to vote now waza tbh.

Vote: waza

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I like this

(Didn’t read the case just saw the last line)

Yall need jesus

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladd

Yall need jesus

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Dw I'm just distancing I'll swap at eod.

I felt very confident (probs unreasonably so) with what direction I wanted to take the day prior to sod

Some of that has fizzled out, partly because ender playing in a way where he seems comfortable and willing to accept the poe. And errr if he’s a wolf and the poe has both wolves he probs doesn’t do that? Maybe? Idk technically the poe can still work even if ender is town but yeah other stuff on top of that also made me think I need a reads reset. I’ve just been too lazy/busy to get around to it, I do think it’s more of a wim issue than an irl busy issue though I’m sure that also plays a factor.

Really the only posts I read today were the short ones and the ones where I could see my name mentioned. Most people having me as town is confusing me lol but if enough people are doing it that means villas are doing it too so I can’t read too much into to. I did tell myself I would tr the first person who pushes me today (provided the push seems believable), since for whatever reason I don’t think the wolves feel like pushing me atm. Maybe I’m wolfsiding, maybe they think I’m townier than I actually feel I am, idk. It’s a shame that Zelda was the first person to vote me lol because I think I already had them in not tinfoil tier so even if I find his push believable it doesn’t change my worldview too much to lock him as town since I already have

Whilst I am aware that I’m probs wrong somewhere I don’t think that somewhere is ladd, I’ll probs shield him closer to eod if I have to. Hopefully between now and then I can read more of the game and have some useful thoughts, I did wanna try harder today to avenge Arctic but haven’t gotten around to it yet oops

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladd

Yall need jesus

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the popes American now get ready for the Vatican invasion

Quote:

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but i agree that ladd is very concerning and idk if you'vpe read my take on his game or not but it pretty much is still there.

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Very concerning for what? For taffy still?

The way you have handled my slot is starting to be so bad that i am genuinely considering i was wrong on you which is crazy, but i feel like u have made 0 effort to get there on me



I expect stett to be unable to read me but for better or worse, i expect you to at least try to get there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEM3Jkrwug0

:bow: Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0 :bow:
Day 3 - Votes from post 1171 through 1359

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Maple	ladd (17), nebjiamn (35), waza (9)
3	ladd	EnderWiggin (11), Maple (19), didistetter (21)
2	Lissa	Visor (13), dyachei (20)
1	waza	pzelda (25)
2	Not Voting	Lissa (1), Totally not Taffy (14)