Sorceror 17er Game Thread

I'm gonna call it a night here I think.

Fantastic time to do some re-reading though. Between the flips and clears that's a /ton/ of new potential info.

I think katze might be a wolf btw. their defense / reason for townreading dolby today was ... pretty rough

:juggle:

Players Votes

EnderWiggin 1 (zack)
nebjiamn 1 (Montmorency)
Montmorency 1 (Cuthillius)


1440

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

just seems like a p shallow reason to write the three of us off as town

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

i think dolby's wallpost kinda stinks

:shrug:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

vote: dolby

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this guy is probably town

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

Sorry are you calling him a wolf or a villager here? Second and third lines say wolf, first says villager, first just a typo?

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*makes no sense if teamed

*not the way he'd play as a wolf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dolby

Vote: Dobby

There can only be one

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lmao. Sup Dolby.

overnight thoughts: ladd's wagon is pure. @Winston Hughes is a hero. I remember thinking Dobby looked good on EOD reread but can't really put a finger on it rn, may be suggesting a ladd cfd or something.
sleep/katze linked to newcomb's smh.
Benneh lean wolf.

*reads*

oh f me, I am 300 posts behind.

if there was a bus, it was Monty driving but yeah, I actually think Monty is town for now.

I still want Ender to die tbh. Kill him and boom bye Benneh. or the other way around.

zack/newcomb villagery at SOD2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

i think dolby's wallpost kinda stinks

:shrug:

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kinda. I feel the wolf!Dolby energy lmao (Dolby you will hate this read :D)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cape90

Winston kinda rocked it with the ladd thing tbh

sorry I wasn't here for EOD, would have hopped off Csargo if so (not really sure if I would have voted ladd or Rask in that situation, probs not Newcomb). But I was eating dinner out and i was away from cell signal. But dang I had this kinda asian style curry from like this pho place and it's so good. I am having the leftovers right now, man it smells good dude.

Anywho I shall be catching up

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asian style curry wolfy NGL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cape90

Winston Hughes, Cuthillius, Montmorency, Raskolnikov

is a very strange list to me of people that voted on ladd. Especially since someone like benneh has obviously had a lot of experience with ladd and his meta

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nothing but the best tbh.

Cuth locktown
me villa even if I mostly selfpressed
Monty's unvote is kinda weird, but dunno. don't wanna read into it too much rn because it could go both way. He put ladd in position in the first place (from which vote? need to check) I guess.
WH hero

why is Benneh mentionned here? @Cape90

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

I low key hate like the last 20 posts in Raskols ISO and would not be sad if he were to blow up.

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ikr tbh

Which ones specifically and why?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Csargo

Rask has no problem with bussing? Don't think I've ever seen him as a woof.

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Mario Mafia 1 at CFC maybe?

omg I knew Dolby was up to no good with that really easy to make ladd spew wall whatever bull

haha dude didnt wanna say that sleep looked the most clear like 1 million times over from the spew either!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

i think dolby's wallpost kinda stinks

:shrug:

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I can't believe I stole this thought (i actually didnt know zack said anything first on it :sweatdrop:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

nothing but the best tbh.

Cuth locktown
me villa even if I mostly selfpressed
Monty's unvote is kinda weird, but dunno. don't wanna read into it too much rn because it could go both way. He put ladd in position in the first place (from which vote? need to check) I guess.
WH hero

why is Benneh mentionned here? @Cape90

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cape90

I feel like you have a lot of experience with ladd in turbos and such to where you would easily pick up when ladd is mafia. Heck, even I had my suspicions there, though I did express I wasn't confident in that admittedly.

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thx for the admission that you are not reading :book2:

also Winston kinda did that, not Monty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

If you're so convinced I'm town, why do you seem so unimpressed by my case?

Caveat that I've skimmed very vaguely so if I missed something I apologise, but it feels like you've slapped this great big townread on me but have also completely ignored my actual push and has put a weak af townread on Newcomb

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this literally feels like an empty question

you can townread somebody but still not like a case that that town provides

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Like, Cuth, I can understand if you disagree with it. But kinda feels weird if you just don't acknowledge it.

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okay but didnt you just kinda say in that last post i quoted

like

you acknowledged that cuth was unimpressed by the case, which would imply at least acknowledgment.

Maybe what I am saying is poopy head material and you meant something else but shrugze

on the topic of Montmorency and the ladd wagon.

please look at #961 and #964

like Mont goes from outright shading Winston for the vote on ladd, to joining Winston by EOD. I am either paranoid at an obvtown move or I am Sherlock Holmes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Csargo

I honestly thought Monty would call me a woof and snap vote me. Instead they just called me a woof or like lightly implied it I guess. ~:confused:

Winston's way far out in super happy fun time land, and I have no idea what to make of that.

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Now I want an elaboration on a post that I will literally never get

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

i sheeped sleep

it was a decent case for the early game

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i was wondering about what someone else said, don't remember who was saying what but...

Bah I am literally a necromancer right now...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by katze

my brain is telling me to be a hero and vote newcomb

someone tell me thats a bad idea and that i should feel stupid for having it

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

​Vote: Newcomb

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im ngl I kinda like this sequence with benneh immediately voting Newcomb after katze's sugestion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

Live view of Dolby:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://legendsoflocalization.com/wp...anslation2.png

Csargo (Vanilla Town) has exploded Dolby (Mafia Goon).

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lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

For Zack's eyes only

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i.imgur.com/u2Vq722.png

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im ngl

that was my exact thought about the opening when i saw it

i think rask is almost certainly v now

Quote:

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Originally Posted by katze

wow i really wish these claims changed my worldview at all

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:yes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

I have a ?potentially bad read? that I believe with all of my heart. It's that Benneh/Neb was frozen as heck at end of day in a way that makes him a villager. He flat out said he didn't want to vote Rask at end of day, the wagons became Ladd/Newcomb/Rask, and he voted Rask and talked about having no guts.

My experience with Benneh is that I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb V world would have no qualms pushing Newcomb over the top. He even had a post about how fun would it be if we flipped v newcomb.

I believe wolf Benneh in a Rask W world would not go back on his ?don't want to vote Rask? comment so quickly with a villager wagon available.

I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb W world would not be talking about not wanting to kill Cuth/Ender/Rask (who all would be villagers here) given there weren't many other options outside of wolves.

I believe villager Benneh could easily stare at that end of day, kind of feel all these wagons suck for various reasons, not really want to kill Ladd/Newcomb d1, kinda think others are towny, and just throw his hands up and vote Rask as a safer option.

?Wolf Benneh would be more pro wolf? is a take that I'm sure some will disagree with but it's what I believe, sorry.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

we've reached the stage of the game where im writing too many words that really dont matter and i feel like im wasting my time so instead ill just get me an orange juice and be more reactive rather than proactive for a while

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if nothing else its good champs practice!

and fwiw the ben read kind of expresses what i was saying earlier in a much more eloquent way, except that i was looking more at his play over the course of the day rather than eod specifically. it feels like if hes a wolf he hasnt really been trying to get villagers killed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sleep

i think rask is almost certainly v now

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oh...

I think I see the same thing you are seeing :hide:

its not really complicated, rask fos'd monstr and monstr immediately got defensive over it (not reading into the toxicity just the general dynamic there being not w/w)

I was thinking the interaction with Dolby after Dolby died making it look like Rask didnt realize that Dolby was dead.

but we could go with that too i suppose

Hi i celebrate easter today and its kind of a big deal for my family so I'll be gone the full day

Lmao wait was dolby wolf

I was pretty sure monstr wouldn't play like that as wolf but I'm also bad at this game, wp csargo

I saw a comment last night too from hk about me "not playing" or something which is kinda lol, Day 2 I was pretty much top posting, it's a weird approach from the one I pushed the hardest, I wasn't really discrete about it


And the questions about my eod (yes I ctrl f my name because why not), are like, I preferred hk, couldn't get it through, tried rask because those are prolly the two that have pinged me the most - didn't work. If it was between ladd and newcomb I preferred ladd (I want to write by far but that would prolly be an exaggeration, I didn't reflect upon which of those two I wanted dead until the wagons became just those two ppl)

I think benneh is prolly still my top town, and from what I've skimmed cuth looks even better now imo


Idk what else for now, from what I've skimmed I don't think my reads have changed.hugely
@zack peepee poopoo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

This reminds me, I want to go look at dobby telling the sorc to target me. I had like... feelings about it. I'm not entirely sure "target newcomb because if he's a wolf cool if he's town he'll make a good decision" is entirely something I believe a villager really thought, but... maybe.

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I mean I stand by this still lol, I was very flipflop about you because I don't have much experience with you other than skimming a few of your games, and it's hard to put myself in your mofia mindset

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

I've mentioned this before I think but the way he amended that to include an and also ladd btw clause right as ladd was getting run up... my spidey senses tingled :spider:

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Oh and if nobody pointed this out it would've been weird

I still think my case on hk is like one of the most hello this is just a wolf, in the game, and really think more people should look at that

Might as well do this again

Vote: hollowkatt

Imma go visit grandma and stuff now, bai

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cape90

I was thinking the interaction with Dolby after Dolby died making it look like Rask didnt realize that Dolby was dead.

but we could go with that too i suppose

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thats entirely NAI imho, not realizing someone is dead can happen as either alignment, not like wolves r plugged into wolfchat 24/7

hiollows only statements about ladd day 1 were to say he has no read on him and not follow up, which is Interesting.

i feel bad because he was the primary pusher of monstrslot and, in my mind its not clearing at all

little bit of read stagnation on him for me as hes fallen off a bit but idk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

I saw a comment last night too from hk about me "not playing" or something which is kinda lol, Day 2 I was pretty much top posting, it's a weird approach from the one I pushed the hardest, I wasn't really discrete about it


And the questions about my eod (yes I ctrl f my name because why not), are like, I preferred hk, couldn't get it through, tried rask because those are prolly the two that have pinged me the most - didn't work. If it was between ladd and newcomb I preferred ladd (I want to write by far but that would prolly be an exaggeration, I didn't reflect upon which of those two I wanted dead until the wagons became just those two ppl)

I think benneh is prolly still my top town, and from what I've skimmed cuth looks even better now imo


Idk what else for now, from what I've skimmed I don't think my reads have changed.hugely
@zack peepee poopoo

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no, I said you were so unmemorable it is like you're not playing.

also lulz on me for being wrong on csargo but gg me for being right on monstr/dolby

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sleep

thats entirely NAI imho, not realizing someone is dead can happen as either alignment, not like wolves r plugged into wolfchat 24/7

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I know that Raskol is a busy man IRL but I've never known him to neglect wolf chat. You could ask dolby but he's dead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

no, I said you were so unmemorable it is like you're not playing.

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Thats on you cuz I think I've been all over the game lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

Thats on you cuz I think I've been all over the game lol

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sure.

I'll read your ISO dobby and let you know what I think of you.

csargo :2thumbsup:

i really want to look at the folks who just randomly cleared monstr for nothing.

i also think monstr had some posts toward ... rask? that probably clear him.

and he had a post to sleep that looks like he knew who sleep was (probably a shot in the dark but lemme go take a look anywho)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monstrdude

This isn't a real thought it was one post

vote: hollowkat

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this looks p good for HK ikn addition to his post having a) no read on ladd but expressing wanting to and b) expressing a wolf read on monstr. although if HK IS a wolf it'd be pretty dope if cuth was the 4th considering that last paragraph

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monstrdude

Wolfiest of the first few posters :sparkleshrug:

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this defintely feels like "lets pile on early suspicion on v!ender that ladd and others started" rather than "lets get some bus cred that ladd started" -- ender prob clear

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monstrdude

Feels off to me

Caveat I don't think I know you that well

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the wording here is so interesting

i know a few people have claimed to know who sleep is but this just feels .. TMI from wolf chat?

i also don't like the way monstr hand-waves a village read on sleep's big post later on

does anyone want to sanity check me here? feel free to call me a bumbling idiot for this one but i can't shake this + the other suspicions i have on sleep re: the ladd/sleep interactions

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monstrdude

Sunbae
Cuth
Sleep

V/v/v imo

Maaaaaybe zack

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rule of 3+1 :wowee:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

the wording here is so interesting

i know a few people have claimed to know who sleep is but this just feels .. TMI from wolf chat?

i also don't like the way monstr hand-waves a village read on sleep's big post later on

does anyone want to sanity check me here? feel free to call me a bumbling idiot for this one but i can't shake this + the other suspicions i have on sleep re: the ladd/sleep interactions

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youre big braining it too much

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sleep

youre big braining it too much

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its early, i haven't had coffee

but even if i am, its worth getting these feelings out yknow?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

its early, i haven't had coffee

but even if i am, its worth getting these feelings out yknow?

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oh yeah feel free to brainstorm stuff, i just gotta interject when i feel something is silly, but i am obviously biased

if i could venture a guess monstr probably just saw the name, didnt recognize it, and assumed i was a stranger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

Vote: Ender

:charge:

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talk to me about this?

i'm not going to quote it, but monstr's posting after rask votes him for what he called AtE and monstr's response probably just spews rask v

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dolby

decided to just iso ladd rather than leave the thread i need to go soon



ladd's second post is still pushing ender but kinda weakly. At this point I think he's got three people (one of benneh or newcomb i forget, zack, hk) agreeing with him on Ender having bad posting.


ladd is townreading benneh zack hk bc they're all following him and agreed with his push. I'm gonna call all of them town.

That random sunbae vote whack af though, especially when he can just vote Ender here and is townreading three people for pushing Ender (imo at least). Completely unsubstantiated across multiple posts at this post (including his first which I didn't include here). Don't think it can't be w/w



he's just starting a second push on sunbae while ender which he also started is still going strong, and is coming up with reasons on the spot

think it makes sunbae v



yeah zack, hk, and whomever of newcomb/benneh said that ender was sus before post 150 is probs town



moves off of sunbae to ender in the 500s, don't know the vc at the time, will look at it later

531 just also feels like zack is not a partner to me but like idk why just vibes



eh maybe not v/w, could be theatre. Still feel like him kinda randomly pushing him was an attempt to establish a wolf-motivated second wagon though


yeah I'm just gonna call Ender a villager and ender/sunbae an attempt to establish v/v wagons early

ladd kinda engages with sleep in a way that feels low level annoyed at them later on, probably not w/w


leave vote on MY BOY

express regret preemptively

profit

honestly a lot of ladd's posting makes more sense if he thinks Katze is a guy

alright i need to run seeya

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coming back to how dolby tried to blithely clear zack/me/HK in this sequence has me doubting the HK read i mentioned a bit earlier. feels like dolby could be looking to clear a partner here (or maybe he's just looking to clear 3 villas and gain favor?). sunbae, katze, others chime in on this and help me out here?

i guess I should consider a w!zack world for the same reason but zack's had enough subtle posts that look real good and not over-the-top-for-cred against ladd and dolby at key moments that i don't want to bother with that.

v
Sunbae

ladd voters
Raskolnikov
cuthillius
Montmorency

villagery and/or spew
zack

EnderWiggin
katze
Sleep


some good, some bad
roro__b
Newcomb
Cape90
hollowkatt


a very quick and rough ordering of where i'm at currently. not ordered within tiers i just moved ppl around in notepad til their clumps made sense

how often does that bottom 4 list contain 2 wolves? I could see that a good amount tbh. how often does that bottom 4 list contain 2 wolves that fit with ladd and monstr/dolby? idk yet. i think newcomb and dobby are slightly less possible with ladd for thin reasons. HK may be slightly less possible with monstr/dolby?

Cape i'm not sure. i haven't re-read him yet and i owe that still so this is mostly just a carryover read on him at this point

sorry for spamming. i'm gonna go enjoy my sunday now that the fam is awake and spend some time reading later. ping me if needed/if you reply to some of my points pls

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

v
Sunbae

ladd voters
Raskolnikov
cuthillius
Montmorency

villagery and/or spew
zack

EnderWiggin
katze
Sleep


some good, some bad
roro__b
Newcomb
Cape90
hollowkatt


a very quick and rough ordering of where i'm at currently. not ordered within tiers i just moved ppl around in notepad til their clumps made sense

how often does that bottom 4 list contain 2 wolves? I could see that a good amount tbh. how often does that bottom 4 list contain 2 wolves that fit with ladd and monstr/dolby? idk yet. i think newcomb and dobby are slightly less possible with ladd for thin reasons. HK may be slightly less possible with monstr/dolby?

Cape i'm not sure. i haven't re-read him yet and i owe that still so this is mostly just a carryover read on him at this point

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I haven't been discrete about you being ?ike my top read but

Sunbae does look good but what are your top reasons for placing him in the top? And same for rask, I mightve missed some voting dynamics stuff but iirc you were one of the ppl who voted him with me? What has changed?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

I haven't been discrete about you being ?ike my top read but

Sunbae does look good but what are your top reasons for placing him in the top? And same for rask, I mightve missed some voting dynamics stuff but iirc you were one of the ppl who voted him with me? What has changed?

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sunbae is the sorc

rask looks good for monstr spew and his vote

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

sunbae is the sorc

rask looks good for monstr spew and his vote

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if he didn't claim he'd still be one of my top villagers for how he dealt with ladd on zack/newcomb and just his general approach fwiw but now that he's outed he can just go to the top

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

I haven't been discrete about you being ?ike my top read but

Sunbae does look good but what are your top reasons for placing him in the top? And same for rask, I mightve missed some voting dynamics stuff but iirc you were one of the ppl who voted him with me? What has changed?

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Sunbae looks good with the addendum that nothing stands out compared to like.. their last games where they've been wolfing (me) so it's a kinda bold read imo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

sunbae is the sorc

rask looks good for monstr spew and his vote

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Oh lol, I just saw that dolby gor blown up, cool, then I can finally trust that sunbae is actually bae for real <3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

*makes no sense if teamed

*not the way he'd play as a wolf

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Hm, ok. Can you talk a little more about this then?

Sounds like part of it is meta ie 'wouldn't play like this as wolf' which, ok sure, not a lot to expand on there.

How about the "read on ladd makes no sense if partnered"? I mean from my (admittedly broad) PoV he had some pretty weird interactions with ladd and then ended up on the village counterwagon to ladd at EoD, and was definitely the one most pushing for me dying at that point.

I guess main question is - what makes this read obvious / slam dunk to you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

lol u soab, I was thinking either you were exactly the sorcerer or a wolf because I don't believe that post for a second

I'm the backup :coffeenews:

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oh i missed this post lol

so cool

I still think there is at least 1 woof in [Ender, katz, sleep] btw

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

if he didn't claim he'd still be one of my top villagers for how he dealt with ladd on zack/newcomb and just his general approach fwiw but now that he's outed he can just go to the top

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Yeah I won't disagree with that, I yhink I wrote amth like that yesterday where he like described my inner secrets and like have been paying attention to things that I thought nobody had, about my previous games qnd mentality here

Monstr looked.... idk it really feels like a pregame tilted dude that tilted in this game as well and I really didn't think that came from a town perspective. I didn't look a lot into their exchanges because of that but I'll take your word for it now

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

I still think there is at least 1 woof in [Ender, katz, sleep] btw

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if you're a villager i can definitely see that

Also montmercy has been my blind spot this game, feels like I had a decently well founded opinion on most others last night but I clearly haven't baked in the night stuff/today stuff, and didn't fully check out eod, I just was there for the last 5 minutes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

if you're a villager i can definitely see that

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Was this the rule of 3 thing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

Was this the rule of 3 thing?

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no, i dont think so?

I just had the thought after posting my list that if there weren't 2 in my bottom 4 then i think it would be likely to be in ender/katze/sleep before the ladd voters. this was before i knew zack was the backup but i didn't include him in that thought process anyway

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

rule of 3+1 :wowee:

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This was the post I was talking about

Is this really 4 townies lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

Also montmercy has been my blind spot this game, feels like I had a decently well founded opinion on most others last night but I clearly haven't baked in the night stuff/today stuff, and didn't fully check out eod, I just was there for the last 5 minutes

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ladd's overt defense and kind of silly v read of mont from start to finish feels built to attempt to spew him wolf later in the game more than protect a partner. especially considering ladd has reason to buss as the only usable mafia PR. what's your take on how he treated monty?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monstrdude

Sunbae
Cuth
Sleep

V/v/v imo

Maaaaaybe zack

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This one!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

This was the post I was talking about

Is this really 4 townies lol

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oh lol I forgot about that

since we know zack and sunbae are v, i guess we coudl dig in on that, but i don't actually believe that much in rule of 3 so much as i was using that to wowee myself about my sleep tinfoil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

ladd's overt defense and kind of silly v read of mont from start to finish feels built to attempt to spew him wolf later in the game more than protect a partner. especially considering ladd has reason to buss as the only usable mafia PR. what's your take on how he treated monty?

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I didn't pay attention to it at all :p am on phone at my uncles house and supposed to be socialising so i might dig into that later tonight/tomorrow

I did have one ladd post early that I commented on a few times like, how he had one of his first posts making a list of 5 people that seemed really out of nowhere.. I don't remember if money was in that one

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

oh lol I forgot about that

since we know zack and sunbae are v, i guess we coudl dig in on that, but i don't actually believe that much in rule of 3 so much as i was using that to wowee myself about my sleep tinfoil

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Sleeps reaction when I pushed him fairly hard yesterday felt pretty good though

And yeah but it's pretty baller if he posts 4 town names lol

zack
Sunbae
Newcomb

nebjiamn

cuthillius
Raskolnikov
Montmorency

EnderWiggin
roro__b
katze
Sleep
Cape90
hollowkatt

How likely is it both wolves in the bottom section? Gotta say I'm kind of going over various pairs of them in my head and none of them kind of intuitively click as "ah yes this makes the game make perfect sense."

Could there have been a ladd busser? Ehhhhhhh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

but seriously, whats the point of the stalker?

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:shrug: