Sorceror 17er Game Thread

[Zack]

I felt so bad for Zack once I realized what was happening and he was wrong for very right reasons lol. That opener was fake af

lol u soab, I was thinking either you were exactly the sorcerer or a wolf because I don't believe that post for a second

I'm the backup

[katze]

hmmm...

sunbae, how confident are you in dobby being a villager?

[katze]

wow i really wish these claims changed my worldview at all

[Sunbae]

Anyways:

Cuth/Rask/Mont were obviously not the choices. They voted out a wolf.

I debated Newcomb. Ended up thinking it was possible counterwagon newcomb could die in the night which would be terrible.

I didn't want to hit any of the newcomb pushers (Katze, Ender, Sleep) because if Newcomb is a wolf they should be pretty clear?

After reading I had villa reads on Dobby/Benneh/Zack and thought they were all villa read by multiple people.

That left a pool of Monstr, Cape, Hollowkatt, Csargo

I kinda think Monstr is a wolf and would feel bad to give a vest to Dolby on sub in.

Cape and HK had some vocal defenders.

Left csargo who i kinda thought was a villager after reading eod.

Not 100% sure I played this correctly, but shrug

[Zack]

[Sunbae]

lol u soab, I was thinking either you were exactly the sorcerer or a wolf because I don't believe that post for a second

I'm the backup

LOL

incredible. I was like "oh this is a cheeky post for my own amusement and should ensure I live". Then you said that was so out of character for me and I was like "ohhhh, thats very true but now I have to act like idk what he's talking about"

[Zack]

I kinda think Monstr is a wolf

thoughts on katze if newcomb is v? was the post saying "I'd vote you" in this world, "you" = katze?

[Zack]

but seriously, whats the point of the stalker?

[katze]

Left csargo who i kinda thought was a villager after reading eod.

Not 100% sure I played this correctly, but shrug

imo you did, targeting PoEish villas is probably the best choice because it

1. clears the PoEish villa who had decent odds of dying to town controlled KP
2. gives town controlled KP to said villa, and frankly they can just sheep the clears anyway

still kinda calibrating my reads give me a sec

[katze]

but seriously, whats the point of the stalker?

[Sunbae]

thoughts on katze if newcomb is v? was the post saying "I'd vote you" in this world, "you" = katze?

yes

Because the end of day katze voted newcomb "because i dont like any of these other wagons"

the other wagons were

Newcomb 2 (Enderwiggin, Sleep)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
hollowkatt 2 (Dobby, Csargo)
Raskolnikov 2 (Monstrdude, Montmorency)
ladd 2 (Winston Hughes, Cuthillius)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Cuthillius 1 (Raskolnikov)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
Enderwiggin 1 (zack)


and katze had been pushing newcomb all day and i think if newcomb is v that is a post that makes no sense (theres so many wagons! you gotta like one of them! and you are brushing off your big vocal push of newcomb as if your hands are tied once its time to actually vote)

however, i recognize newcomb might be a wolf (i think im at the point where my head is saying its very possible and my heart is trying to keep me from it) in which case katze was a+ d1

[Zack]

I do think a POE villager getting the bomb and killing a wolf is the ideal outcome

and I know ppl said they didn't like both PRs claiming d2 but I still think it's optimal to do so

[Sunbae]

hmmm...

sunbae, how confident are you in dobby being a villager?

I think if Dobby is a wolf the nuance on their read on me specifically just kinda blew me away. Like, post game I'd say "damn dobby, you got me good". I also think their stuff on HK is pretty reasonable and is something that kinda came up on their own in a way I feel good about. People weren't really pressing HK much at that point. Maybe a small thing here or there.

[Sunbae]

I do think a POE villager getting the bomb and killing a wolf is the ideal outcome

and I know ppl said they didn't like both PRs claiming d2 but I still think it's optimal to do so

I kinda thought we should bucket it d1 but i wasnt gonna say so in a fun chill game lol

[katze]

yes

Because the end of day katze voted newcomb "because i dont like any of these other wagons"

the other wagons were

Newcomb 2 (Enderwiggin, Sleep)
Csargo 2 (Cape90, hollowkatt)
hollowkatt 2 (Dobby, Csargo)
Raskolnikov 2 (Monstrdude, Montmorency)
ladd 2 (Winston Hughes, Cuthillius)
Sleep 2 (ladd, Newcomb)
Cuthillius 1 (Raskolnikov)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)
Enderwiggin 1 (zack)


and katze had been pushing newcomb all day and i think if newcomb is v that is a post that makes no sense (theres so many wagons! you gotta like one of them! and you are brushing off your big vocal push of newcomb as if your hands are tied once its time to actually vote)

however, i recognize newcomb might be a wolf (i think im at the point where my head is saying its very possible and my heart is trying to keep me from it) in which case katze was a+ d1

i didn't want to vote newcomb at eod because... i was scared of voting out v!newcomb d1 and being that idiot who tunneled v!newcomb d1 and then probably get bombed or yeeted for it

i voted them because i had varying degrees of townreads on basically every other wagon at the time except cuth, kinda ladd as well but i didn't rly scumread him either so i didn't want to vote him for similar reasons to newcomb but uh, without the part where i thought he probably flipped mafia

[Sunbae]

but seriously, whats the point of the stalker?

I'm unsure

[Sunbae]

i didn't want to vote newcomb at eod because... i was scared of voting out v!newcomb d1 and being that idiot who tunneled v!newcomb d1 and then probably get bombed or yeeted for it

i voted them because i had varying degrees of townreads on basically every other wagon at the time except cuth, kinda ladd as well but i didn't rly scumread him either so i didn't want to vote him for similar reasons to newcomb but uh, without the part where i thought he probably flipped mafia

I totally understand that. I was too chicken to actually vote ladd lol

Any chance you can break down each of them and why you v read them?

[Sunbae]

vote: dolby

[Sunbae]

csargo, best of luck. i believe in you <3

[Zack]

can we just chop zack?

no lol

[Newcomb]

what, I did not ask nor expect you to re-read the entire game and give a huge rundown (and idk how I was supposed to know you were doing that).

I'm confused at this anger, gonna just step away for a bit I guess

I lied I can't stay away.

You didn't ask me what I thought of the last page, or EoD, or a specific post, you asked for an "overview of where my head's at". Idk how else to interpret that as anything but an evaluation of the overall state of the game. I wasn't doing it solely for you, I wanted to get my thoughts in order and on paper for me, too, but yeah some of it was like, doing you a favor. So it was unbelievably frustrating to check the thread in the middle of like, writing this long post alternating with reading the first 500ish posts and see you call me underwhelming.

I don't get it, I really don't. I've been doing my best to ignore it from the peanut gallery but apparently this was the straw the broke the camel's back, and you caught the brunt of it, and for that I apologize.

Fucking underwhelming man. I think I've been called some version of that in like the last 5 games I've played. I really thought in this game in particular it wouldn't be an issue, since it was literally billed as being a casual game to pass the time. Like the fuck kind of standard am I being held to here? I could call every single person in this game underwhelming if I wanted to, relative to some arbitrary standard of perfect villager. Hell I could probably spin a fairly... I was gonna say convincing but ok, how about "reasonable looking" case on you for like a ratio of words:impact on the game type thing, if I really really wanted to.

I honestly don't get it.

Anyway, you have my apology for snapping at you, I was frustrated but you didn't deserve to get the brunt of it. I've been holding back some frustration since - again, it's supposed to be a pretty casual game - but the Death By A Thousand Cuts of stuff like katz jumping in at EoD to go "Newcomb was SO DIFFERENT when he was about to get mislynched in the season 3 wildcard game reunion!!!!!" Like yeah no shit sherlock, you're telling me I reacted differently in a game that was a reunion of one of the most high skill/intensity games I've ever played and was sitting at a computer banging out a last will and testament after like 3 game days of information and flips, versus a casual game whose EoD is at 5 PM my time, and it's D1 and I'm following a flashwagon on my phone at work? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.

So yeah, just hit a bit of a fuck it moment there. Sorry.

[Csargo]

Who do you peeps wanna blow up? I've honestly got no clue what the best option is here.

[katze]

I totally understand that. I was too chicken to actually vote ladd lol

Any chance you can break down each of them and why you v read them?

yea lemme find the VC when i posted that

these wagons fucking suck

well part of it was the fact that every wagon was 2 or 1 vote

but

sleep: cape case + villagery overall + unaligned w newcomb
newcomb: wowee
csargo: said it earlier but probably remembered it better back then + felt shrugyeety
raskol: felt miles better than wolfgame i saw from him + shrugyeety

i didnt really want to vote a 1 vote wagon either just because of the wagon formations but i didn't really like any of them either

ladd: said earlier + ladd
monty: thought they had a rly villagery post near eod, forgot which but if you read my iso near eod i remember telling winston to take him off his vote list
winston+ender: honestly dont remember
cuth: actually was okay with that one

vote: dolby

lettuce sheep the clears

[Newcomb]

I have a ?potentially bad read? that I believe with all of my heart. It's that Benneh/Neb was frozen as heck at end of day in a way that makes him a villager. He flat out said he didn't want to vote Rask at end of day, the wagons became Ladd/Newcomb/Rask, and he voted Rask and talked about having no guts.

My experience with Benneh is that I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb V world would have no qualms pushing Newcomb over the top. He even had a post about how fun would it be if we flipped v newcomb.

I believe wolf Benneh in a Rask W world would not go back on his ?don't want to vote Rask? comment so quickly with a villager wagon available.

I believe wolf Benneh in a Ladd W/Newcomb W world would not be talking about not wanting to kill Cuth/Ender/Rask (who all would be villagers here) given there weren't many other options outside of wolves.

I believe villager Benneh could easily stare at that end of day, kind of feel all these wagons suck for various reasons, not really want to kill Ladd/Newcomb d1, kinda think others are towny, and just throw his hands up and vote Rask as a safer option.

?Wolf Benneh would be more pro wolf? is a take that I'm sure some will disagree with but it's what I believe, sorry.

I can vibe with that. I townread bennah for other reasons but I think this tracks. If I'd been in thread at the time I'd have felt similarly. It just didn't really feel like there were any great places to go. Ladd was too much of a risk, and Rask was just a shrug no info kill.

[Sunbae]

Who do you peeps wanna blow up? I've honestly got no clue what the best option is here.

Honestly, I have no idea. I think you should trust yourself and give it your best shot. I think you have a better handle on things than I do at the moment. I'm cool chatting through some things if you have specific thoughts but I've always been a big believer in "let the shooters shoot and itll work out"

[katze]

Anyway, you have my apology for snapping at you, I was frustrated but you didn't deserve to get the brunt of it. I've been holding back some frustration since - again, it's supposed to be a pretty casual game - but the Death By A Thousand Cuts of stuff like katz jumping in at EoD to go "Newcomb was SO DIFFERENT when he was about to get mislynched in the season 3 wildcard game reunion!!!!!" Like yeah no shit sherlock, you're telling me I reacted differently in a game that was a reunion of one of the most high skill/intensity games I've ever played and was sitting at a computer banging out a last will and testament after like 3 game days of information and flips, versus a casual game whose EoD is at 5 PM my time, and it's D1 and I'm following a flashwagon on my phone at work? I'm shocked. SHOCKED.

you are probably right to be annoyed by that i was getting it out because - while the situations were very different and i was well aware of that - i still kind of came around to your lack-of-fucks being really weird. it wasnt a smoking gun so much as it was "please look at this closer if im not alive tomorrow hold newcomb to more scrutiny"

and you are also probably right that i am not exactly casually gaming this game

[Newcomb]

i'm frankly shocked that people are still considering worlds in which ender is a wolf here

his progression on ladd makes basically no sense

and the way he's been playing is not how he'd play as a villager

idk if y'all are attributing playstyle differences to alignment-indicative stuff but its weird

and sorry for this tone but i am incredibly pooped atm i don't think it's ridiculous and people who think that are bad players or anything i just think it's pretty obvious from my reading

Sorry are you calling him a wolf or a villager here? Second and third lines say wolf, first says villager, first just a typo?

[Sunbae]

Newcomb,

For what it's worth, regardless of your alignment, I wouldn't classify you as underwhelming and I've been really happy with getting to play with you more. Like I read your iso multiple times and vibed with a lot of it.

[Newcomb]

alrighty i've read and digested this, and i like some bits of this wall but it also kind of encapsulates one of my grievances i've had with your slot all game ? but i'll get to that in a bit cause in the quotes i have a couple nitpicks

1. alright so like, i think i've only heard of one other person refer to a 'negative space' tell and it was... not to call someone a villager; it was them harping on in dvc about how X is an obvious wolf because of negative space... so i don't know if this is just different definitions since you are not ranmilia or if i'm misunderstanding it, but there's a distant screaming voice in my head saying that this is a super important thing to point out and ask what's up with that

2. i'm yet again not sold by a word you say about me. so like, earlier in the game i suspect you, and you respond with a post along the lines of "this is when i'm supposed to say that you don't have the balls to push me as a wolf, right?" which - yeah, okay, i can believe that. but then you go on to bring out this arbitrary "i think people who know of me would be willing to push me as a wolf more and i think katze might fit that criteria" read, which i am probably paraphrasing in a way to make it sound worse than it is but i still think is pretty bad. i was originally going to write a bit about how that post coexisting with the fact you're convinced a wolf MUST be pushing you is odd, but given EoD1 i've rescinded that thought because if you are a villager then there's good odds you're right about that.

anyway uh, so on day one your read on me is that i'm pushing you in bad faith, i fit the shoes of "the wolf who will push you for towncred", etc etc. and now your read on me today is like "yeah i guess nobody agreed with that. shrug. people are calling katze town off of meta so maybe they're just right.". and it's lazy.

maybe this is me again putting high expectations on you again, because i fully admit that i do have high expectations of you and if you were succdragon instead of newcomb i'd probably just shrug this wallpost off as villagery because i'm lazy. maybe this is me overestimating how much you know about me, or me being egotistical. i dunno.

but like, i'm pretty sure everybody who has expressed a townread on me has done so reluctantly because they know i'm a good wolf, some have flat out said it, some people might just find me wolfy, whatever. and then there's you, who almost died at the end of day 1 over ladd, and just apparently backread the entire game... and your read on the highest poster in the game, the person who has pushed you the most out of anyone, somebody who had a potentially extremely pivotal vote on you at the last moment of eod1, the person who you apparently suspected a decent chunk of the first day..........



weaksauce would be an understatement, tbh.

[Zack]

I was expecting like a quick paragraph lol, i mean fmpov it felt like I was the one defending you all d1 and then you ignored my question trying to get a sense of where you were at. had no idea you were going balls deep re-reading the whole thread to go super in-depth (if you indicated this somewhere ig i completely missed that, sorry)

and i panicked a bit like oh shit what if i'm wrong, everyone else is right, and newcombs a wolf and i just townread him because i want to be v/v and leveled myself on some things