Restless crowns: forging empires [Late era -Skip a few]

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Originally Posted by Jiub

If by any chance the army was the one infected not the spies that's obviously ok. Good that you pointed that out.
Well, I'll wait for @Myth to decide what's what. I can't play my turn tonight anyways...
Too bad Rennes was infiltrated with plague tho. I hate plague. :(

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Jiub, I hate it even more. I'll let you in on something devastating. Half of Spain is infected with plague now. I made a big mistake.

I never experienced plague in a long time so I didn't look at the plague thingy on the settlements. Turns out that I accidentally spread the
plague all over the place before I realized what happened. Now every single army of mine in the north has it. I wish I could have seen this, but now i'm not sure how to control it.

I didn't know it could spread to you, but it's affecting me even worse. This was my mistake so if I must be punished then I accept that. Unless there is a magic console command that removes plague, in which case the admin would be very helpful right now.

It's almost as if I was playing Plague Inc. by mistake :P

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Originally Posted by Auran

Jiub, I hate it even more. I'll let you in on something devastating. Half of Spain is infected with plague now. I made a big mistake.

I never experienced plague in a long time so I didn't look at the plague thingy on the settlements. Turns out that I accidentally spread the
plague all over the place before I realized what happened. Now every single army of mine in the north has it. I wish I could have seen this, but now i'm not sure how to control it.

I didn't know it could spread to you, but it's affecting me even worse. This was my mistake so if I must be punished then I accept that. Unless there is a magic console command that removes plague, in which case the admin would be very helpful right now.

It's almost as if I was playing Plague Inc. by mistake :P

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@Auran
Easy way to control it is to not move anything in the settlements until the plague goes away.
It usually last 3 turns. But beware: character usually bear it for 4-5 turns. To check if character/agents have plague you need to check their portrait : they have a rat in the portrait when carrying plague.
And beware of admirals..likely you infected those too. You need to not put anything in those ships until the plague goes away from them too.

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Originally Posted by sonnet

@Auran
Easy way to control it is to not move anything in the settlements until the plague goes away.
It usually last 3 turns. But beware: character usually bear it for 4-5 turns. To check if character/agents have plague you need to check their portrait : they have a rat in the portrait when carrying plague.
And beware of admirals..likely you infected those too. You need to not put anything in those ships until the plague goes away from them too.

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Who knew that an invasion and stable economy could be brought down to a halt by some rats? Just when you think you got it...

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Originally Posted by Auran

Who knew that an invasion and stable economy could be brought down to a halt by some rats? Just when you think you got it...

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Not rats but Yersinia pestis which the rats and fleas carry. A most beautiful bacterium, certainly in my top 5 :D

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Originally Posted by Jiub

Well after Bordeaux was captured I had no line of sight and I didn't imagine it was captured with plagued spies, until I saw Rennes infected this turn.
The rules clearly state that spreading the plague isn't allowed no matter what. That means that Spain shouldn't have been able to capture Bordeaux last turn, not to mention that he infected one of my major cities with no real reason... So yeah. We can't just skip that and go on, that gives him a big advantage this way...

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My greatest general is infected, I've spread plague to every cities I've captured. :|

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Originally Posted by Core-i7-inside

My greatest general is infected, I've spread plague to every cities I've captured. :|

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what should we say to that...

While Spain and Italy are infected with plague or the Black Death, in North, our superior sanitary system is succesfully keeping it in order. I can offer you vital information in this matter in exchange of gold.

As already mentioned by @Myth , I'm officially adding the following rule:
-agents can't push merchants off resources

As many approved and no one objected I'll add this rule.

Also I'd like to propose 2 side-rules:

A- If a player break the fort-rule, the opponent is authorized to use agents and assassins to take the forts in excess, even if the chances are lower than 60%. If the opponent use a diplomat to bribe the fort, the money will be refund later by the admin. If none of those is possible, then the admin will intervene.

So basically if someone build 2 forts or more in the same region, blocking the path to your armies, you're authorized to use your spies and assassins (to kill spies or family members, which make more likely to open teh gates of the fort) even if the chances of your agents are lower than 60%. If the only way is to bribe the fort with a diplomat, the money you spent will be refund before your next turn. You can take the fort even with just one spy if that's enough to open the fort.
This way we avoid the intervention of the admin and to burden him with difficult decisions (it's very difficult to give a fair punsihment in those case) and the game will progess very smooth and fairly (since basically the the fort will be taken no harm is done).
This is the same logic of the port in which player who put armies in ships inside a port, lose the protection of the rules (and you;re authorized to sink those ships in ports).

Second proposal

B- Players who keep playing even when a rule is broken against them, will get a bonus of either 2k or 3 units (with an upkeep between 150-250, if the upkeep of the unit chosen is between 150-199 then the unit will get 4 exprience bonus and 2 arm.upgrade, if the unit has an upkeep between 200-250 no bonuses will be given. Only units which you can actually recruit can be chosen. So you can't choose a unit recruitable in an armoury if you don't have any armoury and citadels built) to be create in your capital. It'll be the admin to choose the type of reward depending on the rule which has been broken (if for instance the rule has only financial consequences, like a merchant illegally pushed, your reward will be surely financial).Rewards do not apply in cases when players put armies inside ships inside ports and you attack them -as by the rules- or players break the fort's rule and you can take those forts in your turn

So when rules are broken against you, you can decide to either wait for the admin or keep playing in the meanwhile while the admin will take his action as soon as he can (so after you played yoru turn likely). If you choose the second you'll get a reward for not having slowed down the HS and compensated for having played with the rule broken.

I like them, in this way we ll continue playing as fast as possible.

I disagree with the adding of the two new side-rules.

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Originally Posted by Tonno

I disagree with the adding of the two new side-rules.

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Can you elaborate more? In particular against the first one (A) I don't see any contraindications: if a player A build a fort he shouldn't have built against player B and player B can solve the matter by taking it (with spies,assassins or diplomats), why would you be against it?

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Originally Posted by sonnet

Can you elaborate more? In particular against the first one (A) I don't see any contraindications: if a player A build a fort he shouldn't have built against player B and player B can solve the matter by taking it (with spies,assassins or diplomats), why would you be against it?

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There is no real or big/strong reson why.
Second one (B) can effect the other players to much by giving a upper hand to someone, while clearing the situation with the admin will bring the situation to the natural balance.
While A is just to complicated -> it is not unseen that players when in tactical outwitting put two or more spies in the forts/towns while we are restricted to 1 assassin (depends) and bribing coems only to few units not stacks, straight up allowing killing FM isn't good idea since some can have real value to the later game (cuz of stats or straight up FM number) like on the start of this HS; HRE in this HS had only 2 male char., plus can cause unfair situations: like if one player that uses the A situation and maybe gets outmaneuvered and suffers a defeat will be forced back into unfair forts where he is a easy target to pick off (yes I do understand it is tactical misstake of the person who used the A side-rule but he would probably played different or straight up called admin if there was no rule about this), while all of this would be avoided with admin ruling over the situation.
So in my opinion this side-rule makes things a bit to complicated, with this set of rules.
I would add that, while this rule is in principle the same as the ship-port rule, they are not broken that often when people join on the start of the HS and are well informed about the rules. They tend not to make this exploits unless they joined at later stage, while they are not adapted to the HS. Like in this case.

(Hope you understood what I am talking about)

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Originally Posted by Gaius Octavius Caesar

While Spain and Italy are infected with plague or the Black Death, in North, our superior sanitary system is succesfully keeping it in order. I can offer you vital information in this matter in exchange of gold.

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I'm afraid I've no gold to exchange. XD

Maybe I think I didn't make clear enough few things:

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While A is just to complicated -> it is not unseen that players when in tactical outwitting put two or more spies in the forts/towns while we are restricted to 1 assassin (depends) and bribing coems only to few units not stacks,

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This is not an issue. If you don't have assassins,spies or diplomats have not enough money to bribe the units, there's no issue: you can still call the admin's intervention/
The side-rule would allows, if you can (if you have agents and or diplomats) to overcome the issue of the illegal fort without requiring admin's intervention. If you can't, you simply call the admin. So i don't see the issue here

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straight up allowing killing FM isn't good idea since some can have real value to the later game (cuz of stats or straight up FM number) like on the start of this HS; HRE in this HS had only 2 male char.,

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This is an issue of the player who broke the rule. If the player doesn't want to have his valuable family member killed, he shouldn't build the extra-illegal fort and put such valuable family member in it

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plus can cause unfair situations: like if one player that uses the A situation and maybe gets outmaneuvered and suffers a defeat will be forced back into unfair forts where he is a easy target to pick off (yes I do understand it is tactical misstake of the person who used the A side-rule but he would probably played different or straight up called admin if there was no rule about this), while all of this would be avoided with admin ruling over the situation.

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I'm not sure if I understood the issue, but if I did , that's again not an issue: players should take the illegal forts with what's in it when they start the turn. Not purposely cause another army to retrat in the illegal fort to be allowed to kill the family member (if that's what you're saying).

About the second side rule: by not waiting the admin intervention and keep playing you get a disadvantage (even if just financial, for instance imagine your merchant has been pushed and because of that you're missing like 1.5k in your treasury, which you needed to recruit or put a building in the cue. And this is one of the smallest disadvantage you might get).
The disadvantage you get, favors not just your opponent but indirectly other players too (the same way the reward favors you against not just your opponent but all players in general).
So if you decide to not wait and keep the game moving on, getting a little reward mostly compensate the disadvantage and help the hs to move faster.

Well, ideal will be to replay the turn but our tight schedule wont allow it.

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Originally Posted by Core-i7-inside

I'm afraid I've no gold to exchange. XD

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I dont believe that, Doge. Anyone knows that Venice s wealth is one of the greatest in the world.

So i am guessing we are now waiting to see if Bordeaux was captured with the help of infected spies and if those spies also infected Rennes?
BTW Rennes was not infected at the start of my last turn.

One good medieval advice on how to get rid of plague.Kill all the cats.They are probably spreading it so that should help.

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Originally Posted by Gaius Octavius Caesar

I dont believe that, Doge. Anyone knows that Venice s wealth is one of the greatest in the world.

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I hate to say it, but it's been 4 years since we lost Venice. :shame:

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Originally Posted by Lord Luka

One good medieval advice on how to get rid of plague.Kill all the cats.They are probably spreading it so that should help.

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No, the cats has nothing relate to this. We should kill all the damn infected human. :rtwyes:

Hungary

@Myth Can I at least get confirmation anyone is looking into this ?
Loosing population and having no trade in and from Rennes no to mention the squalor is putting pressure on me. I's loosing me about almost 1500 per turn because of the plague.
I know it's worse for Spain, but that's none of my doing.


Edit: you're wrong on that account. the squalor is far more then just the spy.

edit: I'm taking the save once again to change the passwords and fine the k-shah, it will be posted below.

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Originally Posted by Jiub

Hungary

@Myth Can I at least get confirmation anyone is looking into this ?
Loosing population and having no trade in and from Rennes no to mention the squalor is putting pressure on me. I's loosing me about almost 1500 per turn because of the plague.
I know it's worse for Spain, but that's none of my doing.

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@Jiub ,Myth confirmed to me he's looking into the problem.
He already told me what it could be the punishment/compensation, but I won't say anything as he might make further considerations before make his decision final (I suggest you to send him your considerations: if you're losing 1500, and likely the plague will last 3 turns -so you should multiply by 3-, you should send this remark to him by pm, before he makes his ruling)
I think you'll get an answer within today.

PS: afaik plague doesn't affect squalor, actually it reduce it -undirectly as squalor gets reduced as population decreases-

The plauge issue has been brought to me even before today as the HRE got infected.

However, ignorance of the rules is no excuse and I will punish Auran. Every settlement not owned by the offender will be given 2000 free population if they have been infected with the plague. I don't want to lose so much time doing trade math and loading older saves to see how much trade each city would get. Every affected faction will get 3000 per infected city. This happens once. So I'd like a report of each infected city with a screenshot as proof as well.

Spain will be fined 1000 gold per infected city not owned by them and will not be refilled with population.

I am against the two new rules. They can create too much drama with players taking actions into their own hands and breaking other rules to punish rule breaking (agent % chance etc). For a second offense of a rule previously punished the punishment will be even more severe. Even if another faction committed the rule breaking. So if you somehow missed the freezing of the K-Shah troops near Baghdad and you break the fort rule, you have no one but yourself to blame when I freeze your entire military force for 2 turns or something. So trust in me to prevent this IMO. This is just my opinion though you guys can add new rules as you see fit if there is a consensus.

My suggestion is to go and read the rules right now. Even if you think you know them. Even if you wrote them yourself. Go read the rules just in case.


EDIT: After checking again - there seem to be two instances of the plague appearing. One affects the Venetian armies who then spread it to the HRE settlements, the other one affects the Spanish spy. Since that is a pretty high experience spy Auran took him on a merry ride through half his lands and those of France.

I can't determine who spread the plague to Venice as there are many spies and diplomats going about in that chokepoint. So:

1. France will be reimbursed for all her affected cities.
2. The HRE will be reimbursed for Venice
3. Spain will be punished as stated above

Can agents other than spies spread the plague?

Now, I need a list of affected non-Spanish owned settlements in France.

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Originally Posted by Myth

Can agents other than spies spread the plague?

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@Myth : no, only spies can spread plague to settlements that are not your own.
While every character can spread plague in your own settlements.

Save for Hungary: here

Squalor is only related to population number. Nothing else reduces or increases it except population and governor traits that affect squalor

What's with that fine for K-Shah, delaying because pf the password issue or something else?

And really I think we need to make it a rule in all hotseats you're not allowed to have the same password in more hotseats or you'll be fined... Seriously, create some simple random passwords and save them in a text file on your PC, or a saved message on your phone or something.....

The passwords and fine were not implemented last time because the old save was used. So I redid it.

TO!

BTW i am going to seaside tomorrow and i will be away until sunday. If my turn comes up on Sunday i will be able to play it, if it comes on saturday then Jiub can sub me.

Venice http://www.mediafire.com/download/95..._Venice_10.rar
@Lord Luka can you please number the save correctly, thanks.

IIRC plague has begun at Venice.(Before HRE took Venice, I'm not sure if it was a random or someone brought them) Then my general was infected and he spread the plague to every settlements he has captured.

EDIT : Another peace and quiet year. Norway's up
https://www.mediafire.com/?px0fymmdh4r3ymv

Like our viking predecesors before, Britain attracted us. Or it was their wealth.
Anyway, ive sent Prince Burislev to N Britain in a place called Scotland. Although Burislev was of russian origins he learned about the viking raids and he was fascinated. He planned a night atack which caught the english defenders off guard and managed to capture Inverness.

I received word from Burislev while i was in Magdenburg. I had to punish Bertram for atacking us one year ago. He was beheaded and his head was put on the castle walls.




https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwjO...VBMmd0Ulk/edit

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Originally Posted by Gaius Octavius Caesar

I received word from Burislev while i was in Magdenburg. I had to punish Bertram for atacking us one year ago. He was beheaded and his head was put on the castle walls.[/I]

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mm...your army with such General..