POTUS Election thread

Thats pretty interesting. Would love to know more about it and how the DNC explains this one. I heard somewhere that a number of Bernie folks were blocked from entering after they threatened to disrupt the speeches, which might tie into the other video you posted. Or they are just bitter and didnt want to show up, which kinda ruins their whole "party unity" message. But tonight it seems like it was much more full? Either way this is a two-pronged failure: by the DNC for being terrible idiots and not being completely impartial, and by Bernie and his surrogates for fomenting (or at best not halting) the Bernie or Bust movement.

EDIT: yeah seems pretty full tonight: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c46160...ial-nomination

This fellow seems to think they are seat fillers.

https://twitter.com/Of_the_People7/s...14034073231360

If true, that is hilarious and sad.

EDIT: Ive heard some people say on twitter how seat-fillers are actually common (apparently the RNC had a lot too) since its bad for optics or something? Anyone know anything more about this?

Well there was this determined protestor:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CogIhgUVIAAF2OY.jpg

And this Jill Stein fan:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CogTPxXUkAERMZV.jpg

And this girl:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CofJ-30VUAAr7js.jpg

And these guys:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CogFyChVYAAVw44.jpg

And of course these guys were running around outside:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CogElstUEAEosfW.jpg

In other news:
https://i.gyazo.com/ceef848788f7d588...283b5218e7.png

Hillary
Hillarah
Hillary
Hillarah ah ah ah ahhhh

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKCN105101

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

If true, that is hilarious and sad.

EDIT: Ive heard some people say on twitter how seat-fillers are actually common (apparently the RNC had a lot too) since its bad for optics or something? Anyone know anything more about this?

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A TV camera panning across a half-empty auditorium doesn't look good, and I'd imagine that seat-fillers are common. It just doesn't look good for television, so I would be inclined to believe it's true. It's pretty common at awards shows as well, it's purely aesthetic thing for cameras.

Hillary is just payin' it forward.
Job creation for the win!

Apparently Hillary's speech was very well received, much more than Trump's speech was. Im curious to see how much of a bump Hillary gets in the polls, though Im most interested to see what the polling is in about two weeks as the polling then tends to be more predictive of the election results.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Im curious to see how much of a bump Hillary gets in the polls, though Im most interested to see what the polling is in about two weeks as the polling then tends to be more predictive of the election results.

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+6 right after.

probably +1 or +2 normalised after the two conventions have reached equilibrium.


:unitedstates: #Hillary4prison :unitedstates:

Besides "Trump is Hitler!" why should I vote for Hillary? Going over all her past shenanigans and watching the Benghazi and email trials she is literally the next Stalin. Her campaign has manipulated the media to blasting everyone else and portraying her as a paragon of virtue and trustworthiness.

Trump is only as popular as he is now because he doesn't really seem to care how people perceives him. He shouts to the rooftops that as president we'll find out if the desert glows from radiation, that world wars are needed, and that Mexico is going to build us a wall then stay on the other side of it. All that is a load of shit. He won't be able to do any of that due to the way our political processes work. There is no magic red button that he can press to launch nukes. Congress has the authority to declare war. There is no way in hell Mexico is going to pay the USA for the opportunity to build a wall between our two countries and there is no way in a frozen hell that US citizens would foot the bill for something that historically hasn't worked. Looking at you Great Wall of China and Hadrian's wall.

Clinton on the other hand has said that she will and won't continue our war in the middle east. She will and won't persecute the banks on wall street. Her supporters state that if anyone else did what she has done over the last few years they would be jailed but aggressively defend her when anyone tries to say she has broken the law.

The system is so obviously corrupt that people look to trump as a breath of fresh air in a stale corrupt system. The whole fucking thing is corrupt and broken. Trump and Clinton should be run outta town on a rail after being tarred and feathered. President is a duty to the people. Not a way for you to get your rocks off on power.

/rant

Sorry guys I just watched the Lynch hearings. She pretty much said nothing the whole hearing and is obviously in the back pocket of the Clinton group.

Trump is a wolf out in the open. He isn't hiding what he wants to be. Clinton is a snake dressed up sheep pretending to be the guard dog.

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Originally Posted by Veho Nex

Besides "Trump is Hitler!" why should I vote for Hillary?

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You mean him being Hitler is something you could live with and not reason enough?

The fact that we have checks and balances means he cannot ever be Hitler. Clinton on the other hand is doing so many back room deals that I wouldn't be surprised to see her win the election with 105% of the popular vote. Everything I have seen has shown Hillary as the worst possible choice. No Trump is not any better but she is being touted as great leader and a someone who is good for our country.

She isn't. This run has seen so much Clinton corruption aired publicly but people still think she is the greatest. I cannot fathom how we got stuck with these two penis potatoes.

No desire to vote Gary Johnson of the libertarians in?

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Originally Posted by spmetla

No desire to vote Gary Johnson of the libertarians in?

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Its between him or Stein. Both of them have stances that I strongly believe in but also take strong stances that are completely the opposite of what I believe in.

I would have voted for Paul or Gowdy in a heartbeat if either were on the ticket.

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Originally Posted by Veho Nex

Its between him or Stein. Both of them have stances that I strongly believe in but also take strong stances that are completely the opposite of what I believe in.

I would have voted for Paul or Gowdy in a heartbeat if either were on the ticket.

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Between the two, Johnson is the better candidate because I think that Stein is a total charlatan worse than Trump or Clinton. And between Trump and Clinton, Trump is worse because he would wreck our international relations by trying to run it like a business. Not to mention his shady connections to the Russians.

I will never vote for Trump or Clinton so Gary Johnson gets my vote. Agree with a lot of his social and financial policies but not his foreign policy. Shame that the lack of drama in the Libertarian race means they don't get airtime and therefore are not a 'viable' option.

nonsense

Stop :daisy: about with 3rd-party candidates for President. The President is chairperson for the (ie. their) Party apparatus. Elect some :daisy: 3rd-party blocs in Congress, and fill out the Executive offices with their vanguards if you care for a "3rd-party difference".

Seriously, stop babbling about Johnson/Stein policy platforms as though that has meaning for the political process in either principle or action.

Largely agree.
It can have a significant effect though in dividing the vote.
Progressives who cannot stomach Hillary may well expend their votes for Stein; effectively helping Trump.
Johnson may draw protest votes from Trump and Hillary camps; Hillary would be the net loser I think; Trump base is largely a personality cult phenom.
Just my musings; I'm sure the number crunchers have examined the possible effects, who knows, maybe Trump is financing Stein.

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Originally Posted by Husar

You mean him being Hitler is something you could live with and not reason enough?

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Trump cannot ever be Hitler. He is a demagogue who follows no ideology and lacks principles and conviction. He can at best be a poor man's Mussolini.

Hillary supporters can really be crazy sometimes. They tried to discredit Sanders by saying he won't be able to achieve his goals because of opposition in the congress but have no problems believing that Trump could press the button at his whim.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Veho Nex

Besides "Trump is Hitler!" why should I vote for Hillary? Going over all her past shenanigans and watching the Benghazi and email trials she is literally the next Stalin. Her campaign has manipulated the media to blasting everyone else and portraying her as a paragon of virtue and trustworthiness.

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The private email server is basically the same thing the Bush administration did. It becomes the situation of either prosecuting a lot of people or simply forcing that the practice is forbidden from now. Petraeus got two years’ probation plus a fine of $100,000 for a way more severe crime.

Is there anything substantial in Benghazi, outside poor judgement in retrospect and some early mail about not pinning it on islamist terrorists early on despite indication that it was true? The Republicans has demanded how many hearings and getting nothing substantial for how long now?

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Originally Posted by Veho Nex

Trump is only as popular as he is now because he doesn't really seem to care how people perceives him. He shouts to the rooftops that as president we'll find out if the desert glows from radiation, that world wars are needed, and that Mexico is going to build us a wall then stay on the other side of it. All that is a load of shit. He won't be able to do any of that due to the way our political processes work. There is no magic red button that he can press to launch nukes. Congress has the authority to declare war. There is no way in hell Mexico is going to pay the USA for the opportunity to build a wall between our two countries and there is no way in a frozen hell that US citizens would foot the bill for something that historically hasn't worked. Looking at you Great Wall of China and Hadrian's wall.

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There's been plenty of military conflicts without congress authorization and an elected Trump has the house and probably the senate. And they are in the same party whose people voted for Trump, aka they claim to want his policies. And there's a lot of things the President can do outside of that. There's plenty of damage he could do and unlike Hillary, he wouldn't need to do a sudden 180 and lose the support of the people who voted for him or supported him.

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Originally Posted by Veho Nex

Clinton on the other hand has said that she will and won't continue our war in the middle east. She will and won't persecute the banks on wall street. Her supporters state that if anyone else did what she has done over the last few years they would be jailed but aggressively defend her when anyone tries to say she has broken the law.

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Read her campaign promises. Expect her to hold most of them. She's basing her power on a diplomatic base, so any significant deviation would make her lose the support of the party. Unlike Trump, who has a strongman base.

And also: Come up with actual clear facts on what Hillary has done that is so horribly bad. Because starting out with that she's obviously guilty, so any reason why she's still not in prison is corruption might be a bit biased. Because it took about 10 minutes after someone came up with "there's no smoke without fire" for someone to come up with a smoke machine.

The fact that she's been extremely scrutinized and that there's not really more dirt than what you can expect from a high profile politician with a long career, might be a sign that there's no more dirt, rather than that she's a master manipulator. And by that time, if she is that high level master manipulator, she's certainly competent enough to be a good president.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-jill-abramson
http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/fac...ponents/24196/

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Trump cannot ever be Hitler. He is a demagogue who follows no ideology and lacks principles and conviction. He can at best be a poor man's Mussolini.

Hillary supporters can really be crazy sometimes. They tried to discredit Sanders by saying he won't be able to achieve his goals because of opposition in the congress but have no problems believing that Trump could press the button at his whim.

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While Trump can't get to the button by himself true. But he can start bombing Serbia without going through congress (Hi Bill!). And he could be giving signs to Russians that he might not support Estonia through NATO if Estonia is attacked. And he might change his mind when getting called a coward for it. And then we have America and Russia fighting each other. After that, all bets are off.

Sanders had some poorly thought out plans that would cause major changes if implemented. I'm not sure he would get his own party to support some of that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ironside

The private email server is basically the same thing the Bush administration did. It becomes the situation of either prosecuting a lot of people or simply forcing that the practice is forbidden from now. Petraeus got two years’ probation plus a fine of $100,000 for a way more severe crime.

Is there anything substantial in Benghazi, outside poor judgement in retrospect and some early mail about not pinning it on islamist terrorists early on despite indication that it was true? The Republicans has demanded how many hearings and getting nothing substantial for how long now?

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Hillary broke the law keeping (c) emails on her private server. She really messed up when she lied to everyone about it and as time has gone on more and more internal corruption has been brought to light. Watch her trial videos or when they are questioning lynch or comey. They all beat around direct questions. "Is it illegal to go 65 in a 55? Lynch: well you'd have to ask the highway patrolman." "Is it legal or illegal to provide an unauthorized person access to confidential material? Lynch: There may be statutes for that buuuuuttt..."

The whole thing was a farce. Watch Clinton's face when she is getting questioned. She doesn't care, she looks annoyed and bored about being there, she looks like someone who is just going through the motions but knew the outcome before it happened.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

There's plenty of damage he could do and unlike Hillary, he wouldn't need to do a sudden 180 and lose the support of the people who voted for him or supported him.

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But Hillary has done over night 180's several times already. Pro Iraq against Iraq, against gay marriage for gay marriage, this list goes on. At least Trump is telling us what he wants to do. I also believe there are enough people in this country that if Trump tried to gear us for Nuclear war or WW3 then we would see a new assassinated president. If Hillary on the other hand did her back room dealing I see our country being sold down the river before anyone even knows whats going on.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

The fact that she's been extremely scrutinized and that there's not really more dirt than what you can expect from a high profile politician with a long career, might be a sign that there's no more dirt, rather than that she's a master manipulator. And by that time, if she is that high level master manipulator, she's certainly competent enough to be a good president.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-jill-abramson
http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/fac...ponents/24196/

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Have you watched her trials? If you havent just go watch them and stop reading biased news. Go directly to the source and actually come to your own conclusion rather than using propagandic pulp to give you a "clear" view on things. You honestly cannot trust anything written by a reporter. Integrity is a thing that died with the rise of Pulitzer and Hearst.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Hillary supporters can really be crazy sometimes. They tried to discredit Sanders by saying he won't be able to achieve his goals because of opposition in the congress but have no problems believing that Trump could press the button at his whim.

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Trump and Sanders are both making promises that likely would not materialize. The difference is that Hillary supporters would generally be sypmathetic to Bernie's goals. Bernie would be underwhelming, while Trump would not quite be Hitler but still bad. Just saying that it's natural that Hillary's camp would counter them with different arguments.

Of course, there are Trump supporters who disagree with his anti-immigrant ideas but say he'll be a good president anyway. Because he'll fail to deliver on those promises. Or supporters who think that he's not serious about his anti-muslim rethoric to begin with, but still complain that Hillary is dishonest. I don't know where to begin, except....:rolleyes:

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The whole thing was a farce. Watch Clinton's face when she is getting questioned. She doesn't care, she looks annoyed and bored about being there, she looks like someone who is just going through the motions but knew the outcome before it happened.

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Shady dealings, or basic human reasoning skills? :thinking:

Considering the Clinton's cv on shady dealings, what should one assume. Some Americans must be really bad in reading persons, she's dangerous

Let me put it this way:

If there is a terrorist attack or other violent incident involving Muslim perpetrators and Husar posts something like, 'We're about to see Fragony mention "childless Mutti's children" again', then would you assume that Husar has suddenly acquired secret mindreading technology = Illuminati confirmed? No.

You correctly understand that Husar has synthesized past experience with Fragony into the present conjecture.

This is learning on the level of rats and pigeons. Do not stoop below their level or soon you will reach the point of outright delusion.

Thinking Hillary is a very dangerous person is an dillusion?

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

If there is a terrorist attack or other violent incident involving Muslim perpetrators and Husar posts something like, 'We're about to see Fragony mention "childless Mutti's children" again', [...]

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I don't post that, but that is exactly what I expect, I'm a good rat.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Thinking Hillary is a very dangerous person is an dillusion?

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Thinking Hillary is dangerous because she doesn't take a routine formality seriously is a - whatever a "dillusion" is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Veho Nex

Hillary broke the law keeping (c) emails on her private server. She really messed up when she lied to everyone about it and as time has gone on more and more internal corruption has been brought to light. Watch her trial videos or when they are questioning lynch or comey. They all beat around direct questions. "Is it illegal to go 65 in a 55? Lynch: well you'd have to ask the highway patrolman." "Is it legal or illegal to provide an unauthorized person access to confidential material? Lynch: There may be statutes for that buuuuuttt..."

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The problem is that she did the same thing as the previous government did (Bush and Cheney) with Obama knowing about it. Thus, you'll end up either prosecuting plenty of top politicians or you don't push too hard here despite knowing that there's some grey zone parts. The evidence is that she used the private server for non-classified information and private information, with like a dozen mistakes after you discount the over classification rivalry. Not enough to go deeper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Veho Nex

The whole thing was a farce. Watch Clinton's face when she is getting questioned. She doesn't care, she looks annoyed and bored about being there, she looks like someone who is just going through the motions but knew the outcome before it happened.

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Yes? A political pre-trial of that caliber is going to be hinting about the outcome long before it's done, as the political impact is going to be much larger than any punishment (we're talking about less than 2 year probation and a 100,000 fine).

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Originally Posted by Veho Nex

But Hillary has done over night 180's several times already. Pro Iraq against Iraq, against gay marriage for gay marriage, this list goes on. At least Trump is telling us what he wants to do. I also believe there are enough people in this country that if Trump tried to gear us for Nuclear war or WW3 then we would see a new assassinated president. If Hillary on the other hand did her back room dealing I see our country being sold down the river before anyone even knows whats going on.

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In a time span of decades. I mean Iraq, seriously? You'll never allowed to claim that you did a bad call ever? That's not really doing 180. She is a political pragmatist, who'll probably won't state her own opinion on something if she knows its quite unpopular at the time and can change her mind. But that also means that you know she won't push for some really unpopular stuff.

Also, if I'm a master planner with 40 years of hidden agenda and are owning most of the political structure of the country, why am I running for president in the first place? I already own the country.

Trump is going to attack some muslim country, probably just bomb it, to avoid doing Iraq II. He's a bully, has called the US army weak and wants to make America strong and respected (read feared, because he'll never get respect). He's toying with the idea of trade wars and protectionism, which will do havoc to the US economy. He's going to be doing some nice "wink" stuff when some Trumpist does a racist crime.
He's petty, so he's going to use his position to go after people/countries who has hurt him.
He'll probably stamp BLM as terrorists, like he's already doing with muslims , which is going to be hell (the core of BLM is peaceful and has mostly reasonable demands), as its how to signal that a peaceful solution is impossible...
That Russia thing is suspiciously good at sticking on him. Total denial doesn't work well when you have a record.

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Originally Posted by Veho Nex

Have you watched her trials? If you havent just go watch them and stop reading biased news. Go directly to the source and actually come to your own conclusion rather than using propagandic pulp to give you a "clear" view on things. You honestly cannot trust anything written by a reporter. Integrity is a thing that died with the rise of Pulitzer and Hearst.

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That gives an interesting question. How are you getting your news? I mean, you did consider Hillary to be a hidden evil long before the emails didn't you? Through some vague information osmosis without any big smoking guns...