Rampage Out of Space

Okay, let me actually go read what Vro just pointed out now. He's good at these types of inconsistencies.

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Originally Posted by Vroendal

Winstons's town, nice.

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Paranoia: ...

Sanity: SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP!!!

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

Feels like you're trying to spread the poe,

I mean, you're really good at posting in a voice that sounds townie.

But I'm not feeling those good vibes from your actual process now that we reach the business end of things.

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are you saying that b/c my poe says you must be a bad guy?
again, csargo hard town, laurentus "clear", vro "clear" leaving dolby, you, borg, myself. remove myself and that leaves you, dolby, borg...

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

I think my point still stands. yesterday was the day to chop me, there will never be another day to chop me.

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Yes, there will: when we've chopped all the Wolves and for some reason the game goes on. If you're Town (fuck it, even if you're SK) then you can and should show me where the real one's hiding out. We have 3 day phases for that if all goes well.

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

Paranoia: ...

Sanity: SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP!!!

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:sweetheart:

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

are you saying that b/c my poe says you must be a bad guy?
again, csargo hard town, laurentus "clear", vro "clear" leaving dolby, you, borg, myself. remove myself and that leaves you, dolby, borg...

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No.

It's because my poe says you must be a bad guy.

And you're acting like one.

:sorry2:

@Visor

Hope you're enjoying this.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXdNnw99-Ic

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

No.

It's because my poe says you must be a bad guy.

And you're acting like one.

:sorry2:

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does your poe also say dolby and borg?

there's a side by side meme here but I'm not funny enough to find it.
regardless, I think we universally "not town read" those two. So lets chop there.
vote: dolby

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

does your poe also say dolby and borg?

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Yes, obviously.

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

there's a side by side meme here but I'm not funny enough to find it.
regardless, I think we universally "not town read" those two. So lets chop there.
vote: dolby

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So you are claiming sk?

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

Yes, obviously.



So you are claiming sk?

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no, I'm not claiming SK.

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

no, I'm not claiming SK.

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scum then, got it

like in no universe am I claiming SK. if you want my head today you're going to wolf read me for it.

You're either going to have to convince me that Laurentus is a villain, or that he's wrong about Vroe.

Which seems like what you tried to do.

Problem is that Laurentus deserves an oscar if scum here.

So maybe try for Vroe?

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

scum then, got it

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yeah, I've gotten this far by doing basically nothing, and now that I'm thisclosetowinning I'm throwing it all away by talking about who's clear and how instead of just throwing down the mother of all buses on my packmate and using that cred to live another day.
Like I will bus, I will bus early, often, and if it suits my purposes I will bus my entire team and win off of that credit.

lol this game is funny and I am enjoying myself

:deal:

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

lol this game is funny and I am enjoying myself

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This we can agree upon. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

You're either going to have to convince me that Laurentus is a villain, or that he's wrong about Vroe.

Which seems like what you tried to do.

Problem is that Laurentus deserves an oscar if scum here.

So maybe try for Vroe?

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I'm not going to do either of those things.
Remember my post about clears? if that post is accurate wolves + Sk are you, dolby, and borg in some order.
If that post is wrong then one of laurentus/vro replaces one of you three.
But I don't think that's legit, I think it's within you three.

anyways, I'm off to go paint my house, I'll check back in later

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

I'm not going to do either of those things.
Remember my post about clears? if that post is accurate wolves + Sk are you, dolby, and borg in some order.
If that post is wrong then one of laurentus/vro replaces one of you three.
But I don't think that's legit, I think it's within you three.

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Yeah, but I'm not a villain.

And you're not really acting as if I might be.

You're just kinda saying it.

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

I will bus, I will bus early, often, and if it suits my purposes I will bus my entire team and win off of that credit.

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This wasn't that kind of game, though, was it?

Tim's death shook everything up in way you couldn't predict.

It's all well and good saying what you'd do in a hypothetical.

But this was a closed set-up, with no team having perfect information.

Actual bussing (as opposed to careful distancing) loses nearly all of its value here.

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Originally Posted by Vroendal

Borg's lying. Re-reading the flavor and flips is actually incredibly helpful.

He shouldn't be a tracker and there's no way he tracked Tim, the wolf kills are factional according to Tim's flip.

Vote: BorgPicard

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Vro, I need help here.

The worst thing for hk and borg about these recent exchanges is that neither of them looks like they've actually been working this stuff through from a townie perspective.

It's like they're behind the curve, and are giving impressions of how a townie might see the gamestate here, without fully understanding it.

I mean, I think they understand the gamestate better than us townies, but they're struggling to see how it looks to us.

Can't fake what you don't understand.

Vro, by "factional" do you mean that the Wolf team decides collectively to kill someone, and that person dies without one of them having to carry the kill?

And I'm very confused about why a tracker is implausible to you.

This game is now 19% of my total posts at the org, which after 11+ years and ~30 games is pretty insane.

Got to try and clear that 20...

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Originally Posted by Laurentus

Vro, by "factional" do you mean that the Wolf team decides collectively to kill someone, and that person dies without one of them having to carry the kill?

And I'm very confused about why a tracker is implausible to you.

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That's what I've heard it as.
A tracker isn't completely implausible, but if Factional means what I think it does, then the tracker would only exist to see other scum possible scum actions and the SK visit, which feels a little imbalanced when there are town PR's that would be difficult to differentiate from scum visits. BP is claiming to have tracked Tim N1, I assume to c4, but if the kill really is factional, then he's straight-up lying. There's no listed ability for Tim, so I assume the only way he would be visiting c4 so that BP's alleged tracker ability would see him is if Tim was carrying the kill.

Unless I'm wrong about what factional means here, in which case, oof, but I'm pretty sure BP is just bad here anyway.

Tim's flip states:
"The Mafia choose someone to kill at night. Kills are factional, and therefore not assigned (will not interfere with individual abilities)."

Not assigned sounds pretty specific to me, how else would you interpret it?

Given the complexity of the other power roles, and the fine balance of the whole situation, does Monty ever just plop a town tracker in this game?

It's so crass and uninteresting.

Tracker would be horribly swingy here.

case me then winston. If you're so sure I'm wolfing here quote my posts that indicate that, with analysis that shows you're thinking this through. Bet you can't tho

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

I think my point still stands. yesterday was the day to chop me, there will never be another day to chop me.

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Originally Posted by Vroendal

Tim's flip states:
"The Mafia choose someone to kill at night. Kills are factional, and therefore not assigned (will not interfere with individual abilities)."

Not assigned sounds pretty specific to me, how else would you interpret it?

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Yeah, the "not assigned" part leaves very little room for doubt.

Okay, the next thing we need to square away: Borg is either SK or scum, which do we judge more likely?

For me the answer is a clear

Vote: Borg

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

case me then winston. If you're so sure I'm wolfing here quote my posts that indicate that, with analysis that shows you're thinking this through. Bet you can't tho

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I'd start with literally quoting one of my posts where you see I say we don't chop the SK today, and then somehow progress to "you're trying to mischop me today."

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

re dolby: no, I am pointing out where you're wrong. idgaf if you're swayed or not, you asked me why I posted what I did, I'm answering. One of the reasons I sus you is b/c you're wrong on things, or leaving things out.
And yeah, I'm claiming lack of progression on you.

I do realize changing reads are a thing, but like this shift from "you're not dying today" to "you must die today" is jarring, bad, and I told you so yesterday
I was topping peoples SK list yesterday, with at least one "hk is a wolf" out there. Objectively yesterday was 100% the correct day to resolve me if you're going to chop me. NOW you have to actually chop a wolf IF you are town and your push here smells a lot like "wolves need one mischop to win and HK is it"

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Actually, where did I say you had to die today?

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

case me then winston.

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I already have.

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

If you're so sure I'm wolfing here quote my posts that indicate that, with analysis that shows you're thinking this through. Bet you can't tho

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This is exactly how I protect myself as scum. Because, like you, I'm really good at faking that townie tone, avoiding obvious errors, and generally riding the threadflow in a way that feels superficially convincing while nudging things where I want them to go.

The point isn't that this post or that post is scummy in itself. The point is that you've come in pushing angles that don't fit with where your mind ought to be if you were actually town.

Picking the policy bit when borg had just dropped a weaksauce investigative claim was just yuck.

It's running interference.

Just like on d1.

Can we activate Voltron now?

I come back to the same question I started with:

Is there a world in which hk and dobly are actually scumbuddies?

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

I come back to the same question I started with:

Is there a world in which hk and dobly are actually scumbuddies?

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I started this day out thinking that the only team HK could be a part of was that one. I don't recall why I thought it.

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Originally Posted by Laurentus

I started this day out thinking that the only team HK could be a part of was that one. I don't recall why I thought it.

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But regardless, between Borg and HK, who do we think is the SK?

Although, it is worth pointing out, Winston, that HK really wants it to seem like he is out for Dolby's blood if they are indeed paired. Do you think HK busses here?

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Originally Posted by Laurentus

Yeah, the "not assigned" part leaves very little room for doubt.

Okay, the next thing we need to square away: Borg is either SK or scum, which do we judge more likely?

For me the answer is a clear

Vote: Borg

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I'm not sure Lau. On the one hand, BP's claim pushing away from voting Dolby (setting Dolby up as the SK) is very telling, but on the other hand, wouldn't scum know not to fake something like tracking Tim? Maybe they forgot/didn't see that the factional part was revealed?

I'm going to be gone again for a while, I'll think it over, but I'm pretty convinced it's SK HK and scumteam BP/Dolby.

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Originally Posted by Laurentus

Yeah, the "not assigned" part leaves very little room for doubt.

Okay, the next thing we need to square away: Borg is either SK or scum, which do we judge more likely?

For me the answer is a clear

Vote: Borg

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I don't care if you want me out, but please don't vote on my wagon, as I am trying not to kill you.

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Originally Posted by Laurentus

But regardless, between Borg and HK, who do we think is the SK?

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If it had to be one of the two?

I think hk.

There's been a joy there that fits with my own experiences of playing sk - that sweet combo of genuine scumhunting and utter villainy.

I'm still not letting go of the Dolby hypothesis, though.

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Originally Posted by BorgPicard

I don't care if you want me out, but please don't vote on my wagon, as I am trying not to kill you.

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Why do you have to AtE so well, damn you, lol. How do you explain Vro's catch that the scum team doesn't kill targets individually, and square that with your claim that you caught Tim in the act? Like, with the sincerity of your tone here, it sounds like you're the SK, but you can't convince me you're Town.

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Originally Posted by Laurentus

Although, it is worth pointing out, Winston, that HK really wants it to seem like he is out for Dolby's blood if they are indeed paired. Do you think HK busses here?

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You mean today?

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

You mean today?

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Are you asking if I'm asking if HK busses today?

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Originally Posted by Laurentus

Why do you have to AtE so well, damn you, lol. How do you explain Vro's catch that the scum team doesn't kill targets individually, and square that with your claim that you caught Tim in the act? Like, with the sincerity of your tone here, it sounds like you're the SK, but you can't convince me you're Town.

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Well if you let HK, Winston and Vro be the only ones on my wagon then the next night will be clearer

Fuck this game. :wall: :dizzy2: :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Laurentus

Are you asking if I'm asking if HK busses today?

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Are you asking if I'm asking if you're asking if HK busses today?

I'm back to being paranoid about everything except Csar, lol, so I think I'm'a step away for a bit.

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

Are you asking if I'm asking if you're asking if HK busses today?

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Jesus, lol, let me just make it clearer: do you think HK busses Dolby today?

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Originally Posted by Laurentus

Fuck this game. :wall: :dizzy2: :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Zack Brannigan

https://media3.giphy.com/media/7pLv68ItwBaHS/200.gif

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:bow:

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Originally Posted by Laurentus

Jesus, lol, let me just make it clearer: do you think HK busses Dolby today?

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No idea.

:laugh4:

I mean, probably...

Maybe...

I could be convinced...

But on the other hand...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Welcome to my world. :sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

I already have.



This is exactly how I protect myself as scum. Because, like you, I'm really good at faking that townie tone, avoiding obvious errors, and generally riding the threadflow in a way that feels superficially convincing while nudging things where I want them to go.

The point isn't that this post or that post is scummy in itself. The point is that you've come in pushing angles that don't fit with where your mind ought to be if you were actually town.

Picking the policy bit when borg had just dropped a weaksauce investigative claim was just yuck.

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your meta on me is wrong lol. I get caught as wolf on tone and weird posts way more than I get away with them. In fact, I've been D1 caught on tone within 5 posts of starting the game before.

If we're trusting Laurentus as clear, and vro as clear via laurentus and the derp conversation then there is no angle. Wolves + SK are in you, dolby, borg. Like there's no arguing otherwise.
The only way to argue otherwise is to either remove yourself and insert me (as you have to do if you're a wolf or SK here) OR insert one of Laurentus/Vro, right? There are no other worlds

What chance we figure out exactly the right chop order, but Csar got trapped in his basement and we lose anyway?

:anxious:

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

There are no other worlds

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So why do you feel so limp?

If town, you should have the bit between your teeth.

Why don't I feel under pressure here?

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Originally Posted by Laurentus

I'm back to being paranoid about everything except Csar, lol, so I think I'm'a step away for a bit.

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Do you still believe in your Vro clear?
If you do the path forward is transparent: chop within myself, winston, dolby, borg all the time every time.
If you're town and vro is town and csargo is town you've got a 50% chance than any player in that group chosen at random is going to be a wolf.

Going down that path the votes that make the most sense are dolby and borg. I make the least sense (though you may think winston makes the least sense and honestly whatever I guess). Then Winston.

You keep telling Laurentus what to do.

That's not townie.

You should be telling me what to do.

It's not solving, it's manipulation.

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

So why do you feel so limp?

If town, you should have the bit between your teeth.

Why don't I feel under pressure here?

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because between you dolby and borg I think you're the least likely to flip wolf

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

You keep telling Laurentus what to do.

That's not townie.

You should be telling me what to do.

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idc what you do though, as long as it isn't chopping me and isn't chopping in laurentus/vro. Laurentus otoh I'm fighting with b/c he's SK reading me which means that I know for sure that his world view is at least somewhat incorrect. If I can convince him I'm not SK/not Wolf I think town can win this thing.
If I can't convince him of that there's more thread inertia to chop me which is guaranteed town loss.

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

because between you dolby and borg I think you're the least likely to flip wolf

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But if town you don't know.

And that's exactly the problem here.

It feels like you do know.

Got to pay my respect.

You've faked it beautifully, hk.

And if I didn't know what I know about the game state, I'd totally have fallen for it.

But today it's all just been a bit weak.

As a townie right here, you'd have had more fire in the solving.

Hardest days to fake are the first and the last.

Paranoia: unless you've worked the mechanics to make yourself seem clear

Sanity: :tnt:

like ok, think about it this way b/c I'm not seeing critical thinking skills being used.
IF I'm chopped and flip town where are the wolves/SK?
It can't be csargo at all.
If pzelda clearing Laurentus can be believed it's not him. Laurentus is clearing Vro and why would wolf laurentus do that?

That literally leaves winston/dolby/borg. That's the solve.
What I don't know yet is which one is the SK.
I think Dolby/Borg are the most likely wolves, Winston is most likely SK. If that world is incorrect it's Borg SK with Dolby/Winston wolves.

The only world I'm entertaining today is the one where dolby/borg/winston are not town

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

But if town you don't know.

And that's exactly the problem here.

It feels like you do know.

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You're right, I don't know which of the three of you is the SK and who are the wolves. All I know is by the clears we've been given the three of you ARE the anti-town factions.

The only way this is wrong is if one of Laurentus/Vro is a bad guy, right?
So sure, you swap yourself out for me and have a POE of Dolby/Borg/HK, fine. Who of Borg/Dolby are you most interested in killing today?

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

like ok, think about it this way b/c I'm not seeing critical thinking skills being used.
IF I'm chopped and flip town where are the wolves/SK?
It can't be csargo at all.
If pzelda clearing Laurentus can be believed it's not him. Laurentus is clearing Vro and why would wolf laurentus do that?

That literally leaves winston/dolby/borg. That's the solve.
What I don't know yet is which one is the SK.
I think Dolby/Borg are the most likely wolves, Winston is most likely SK. If that world is incorrect it's Borg SK with Dolby/Winston wolves.

The only world I'm entertaining today is the one where dolby/borg/winston are not town

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The position you're presenting is entirely reasonable as an idea of how townyou might see it, intellectually.

But your emotional response just isn't believable.

And that's the hardest thing to fake in a moment like this.

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

Who of Borg/Dolby are you most interested in killing today?

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The one that's teamed with you.

The difference between us is that I have no interest in trying to convince you of anything, because I know you're a villain.

You're acting as if I'm someone who might yet be won over.

If town, you ought to be feeling like you've got me.

And borg.

But nothing you've done suggests that.

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

The position you're presenting is entirely reasonable as an idea of how townyou might see it, intellectually.

But your emotional response just isn't believable.

And that's the hardest thing to fake in a moment like this.

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there is no emotional response, there is only cold, hard, logic. maybe that's what you're picking up, that I'm not emotionally invested. And that's true, I'm not. This game is a puzzle to be solved, not a battle to be won.
I'm not trying to fake anything. I'm presenting, as best I can, the world I think exists.

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

there is no emotional response, there is only cold, hard, logic. maybe that's what you're picking up, that I'm not emotionally invested. And that's true, I'm not. This game is a puzzle to be solved, not a battle to be won.
I'm not trying to fake anything. I'm presenting, as best I can, the world I think exists.

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There are always emotions.

No level of human rationality overcomes them.

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

The difference between us is that I have no interest in trying to convince you of anything, because I know you're a villain.

You're acting as if I'm someone who might yet be won over.

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I'm not at all but lol ok.
I'm voting dolby today and parking there. Whatever you wanna do go ahead and do it.

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

There are always emotions.

No level of human rationality overcomes them.

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https://i.imgur.com/FkDYvnr.png

If my Vro read is right, and I really think it is, one of you is the best damned liar I've ever seen.

This is the sweet spot. All in the balance. Do or die. Everything on the chop.

How does the hk who loves vanilla towning not feel invigorated by this shit right here?

I'll try to iso later today tomorrow, I probably won't be around a bunch today. I'm at Borg/Dolby/Vroe/HK from what I remember.