Brexit Thread

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

There was no disater because there was no Brexit yet. Proclamation of exit is not the exit.

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We're currently in the uncertainty period. That period will begin to end with the triggering of article 50. The certainty period begins when the deadline invoked by article 50 ends.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

OK I will give an honest answer, I will applaud anything that weakens the EU as I see it as a very big threat to nation-states and everything good it brought us. It's a senseless project that's only interested in it's own existance. I wonder how long it takes because it gets it's true form. You are free to laugh at me.

Ascendence of europe vs the route to serfdom

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I'd prefer it if you'd put your money where your mouth is and move to live in the UK, where the post-EU conditions will apply. You'll be able to experience all the good points and all the bad points of living outside the EU. Only then will your optimism about Brexit hold any authority.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

No, they are shielded by not being poor.

By living in high income neighbourhoods in the prosperous EU nations with no possibility of seeing an immigrant save for across a supermarket counter. Moving in closed circles and reading news articles filtered to tell them what they want to hear they are completely oblivious to the problems being in the EU has caused the working classes.

Considering the chief complaints the remainers have is not being able to move around without a visa, It's easy to say they dont understand much of the consequences either.

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You do know, don't you, that the most multi-ethnic area of Britain, London, was strongly pro-Remain. Around 60% Remain.

If I buy a nice cottage in the UK you are going to kill me in my sleep. But I'm optimistic yes, it are the Germans and Italians who really have a problem right now

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Originally Posted by Fragony

If I buy a nice cottage in the UK you are going to kill me in my sleep. But I'm optimistic yes, it are the Germans and Italians who really have a problem right now

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And whatever your feelings about it, you're still an outsider who won't have to face the consequences of that which you're talking about. Just like the neolibs who kept spouting off about post-Communist Russia.

You keep saying neolibs, neoliberalism is pretty broad word, just like populism it has become a shouting word, who's shouting. It's actually a milder form of libertarism but an evolved word. Can I call the EU facist then since it's also the third way

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Originally Posted by Fragony

If I buy a nice cottage in the UK you are going to kill me in my sleep. But I'm optimistic yes, it are the Germans and Italians who really have a problem right now

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If you buy a nice cottage in the UK you will be an immigrant with an unknown legal status, only a fool would make an investment where they don't know their legal rights.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

You keep saying neolibs, neoliberalism is pretty broad word, just like populism it has become a shouting word, who's shouting. It's actually a milder form of libertarism but an evolved word. Can I call the EU facist then since it's also the third way

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Neoliberalism is often used as an insult, especially by followers of Jeremy Corbyn. However, in political theory, it also describes a school of thinking. When used as a broad term, it is misleading, as supposed neoliberal politicians are, on examination, anything but. However, the term is accurate when used to describe a narrow range of political theory and theorists. They don't usually get the chance to practice power as anyone who is actually in power has to get to grips with the reality of policies put into practice. However, neoliberals got to play out their theories in post-Communist Russia, without the troubling need to deal with the social details of their fantasies. You see, they got to preach about what was right for Russia, without the bother of actually having to live in Russia and see what their sermons result in. Does that sound like anyone you know?

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

You do know, don't you, that the most multi-ethnic area of Britain, London, was strongly pro-Remain. Around 60% Remain.

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Who knew the pro immigrant choice would ge the immigrant votes? I refer to the Europhiles who buy into the ideology and supported letting the immigrants in with no regard for effect in the first place, the ones who are inhabiting the conspicuously non multi ethnic areas of britain.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Because the EU is how they got there, duh, same reason mexican immigrants vote democrat in the states. I refer to the Europhiles who buy into the ideology and supported inviting the immigrants in in the first place.

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Bwahaha. First you criticise the Europhiles for only being pro-EU because they don't have to come face to face with immigrants, Then you explain away the multi-ethnic London by saying that, of course immigrants would vote for the EU because that's why they're here. I'm not quite sure how the EU made it easier for Caribbeans and Asians to enter the UK, but no doubt you can enlighten me.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Neoliberalism is often used as an insult, especially by followers of Jeremy Corbyn. However, in political theory, it also describes a school of thinking. When used as a broad term, it is misleading, as supposed neoliberal politicians are, on examination, anything but. However, the term is accurate when used to describe a narrow range of political theory and theorists. They don't usually get the chance to practice power as anyone who is actually in power has to get to grips with the reality of policies put into practice. However, neoliberals got to play out their theories in post-Communist Russia, without the troubling need to deal with the social details of their fantasies. You see, they got to preach about what was right for Russia, without the bother of actually having to live in Russia and see what their sermons result in. Does that sound like anyone you know?

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I'll take that as a snap and I don't mind that, I don't know anything about Corbyn really I only know that Labour doesn't really like him themselve and would rather be rid of him because he's too radical.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Well you'd better stay in because if you don't then the disasters visited on the UK will fall on you lot too.

You know, WW III, plague of frogs, death of the first born. All kinds of shit.

It's a hell on Earth in the UK atm.

:laugh4:

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Isn't Corbyn evidence of complete societal collapse? Or did I miss something.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Isn't Corbyn evidence of complete societal collapse? Or did I miss something.

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Why would Corbyn be a sign of that?

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Isn't Corbyn evidence of complete societal collapse? Or did I miss something.

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Corbyn is a sign that the British school system hasn't done its job properly.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Bwahaha. First you criticise the Europhiles for only being pro-EU because they don't have to come face to face with immigrants, Then you explain away the multi-ethnic London by saying that, of course immigrants would vote for the EU because that's why they're here. I'm not quite sure how the EU made it easier for Caribbeans and Asians to enter the UK, but no doubt you can enlighten me.

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Multi ethnic being 60% white. How many carribbean and pakistanis do you think actually live or even visit the rich neigbourhoods?

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Multi ethnic being 60% white. How many carribbean and pakistanis do you think actually live or even visit the rich neigbourhoods?

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What is the rich part of town?

Kensington, Chelsea, Knightsbridge, places immigrants rarely can afford, basically. That's the crux of the issue; Europhillia is the fad of the upper and middle class who are insulated from the downsides of immigration; it's not thier jobs being taken by unskilled labour nor thier neighbourhoods being degraded and ruined by new unassimilating tenants

That lack of perspective detaches them from the mood of the working class who do have to witness a downside they didnt ask for.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Kensington, Chelsea, Knightsbridge, places immigrants rarely can afford, basically. That's the crux of the issue; Europhillia is the fad of the upper and middle class who are insulated from the downsides of immigration; it's not thier jobs being taken by unskilled labour nor thier neighbourhoods being degraded and ruined by new unassimilating tenants

That lack of perspective detaches them from the mood of the working class who do have to witness a downside they didnt ask for.

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Have you ever been to those boroughs do you know many people living there?
Come to think of it, have you ever been to London???????

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Multi ethnic being 60% white. How many carribbean and pakistanis do you think actually live or even visit the rich neigbourhoods?

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Among the less white boroughs that I know of, Newham, Tower Hamlets, Redbridge and Waltham Forest all voted Remain. But then you've already got your argument ready: the EU is where the immigrants come from, so naturally they voted Remain. Actually, checking the figures further, the 10 least white boroughs all voted Remain. The least white borough that voted Leave was Barking and Dagenham, which is 14th on the list. The whitest borough in London also voted Leave, as did the 4th whitest borough. So the actual figures, as opposed to your imagined theory, suggests that the more multi-ethnic a borough is, the more Europhilic it is.

BTW, you must be one of the very few who reckons that 40% non-white is not multi-ethnic. The national figure is 12.8%.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Among the less white boroughs that I know of, Newham, Tower Hamlets, Redbridge and Waltham Forest all voted Remain. But then you've already got your argument ready: the EU is where the immigrants come from, so naturally they voted Remain. Actually, checking the figures further, the 10 least white boroughs all voted Remain. The least white borough that voted Leave was Barking and Dagenham, which is 14th on the list. The whitest borough in London also voted Leave, as did the 4th whitest borough. So the actual figures, as opposed to your imagined theory, suggests that the more multi-ethnic a borough is, the more Europhilic it is.

BTW, you must be one of the very few who reckons that 40% non-white is not multi-ethnic. The national figure is 12.8%.

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When more than 20% of the "whites" are not British where does that leave his multi ethnic theory?

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

It is funny to see how Brexit camp gloats because there was no economic disaster after the vote.

It is sad, on the other hand, to see them not even remotely understanding the consequences of their choice.

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Oh we understand alright. That's why we voted to leave.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Isn't Corbyn evidence of complete societal collapse? Or did I miss something.

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Bugger you got me there mate :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Among the less white boroughs that I know of, Newham, Tower Hamlets, Redbridge and Waltham Forest all voted Remain. But then you've already got your argument ready: the EU is where the immigrants come from, so naturally they voted Remain. Actually, checking the figures further, the 10 least white boroughs all voted Remain. The least white borough that voted Leave was Barking and Dagenham, which is 14th on the list. The whitest borough in London also voted Leave, as did the 4th whitest borough. So the actual figures, as opposed to your imagined theory, suggests that the more multi-ethnic a borough is, the more Europhilic it is.

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1st whitest borough is havering, which is one of the cheapest to live in, IE poorest, same with 4th, bexely. Newham Tower Hamlets, Redbridge and Waltham Forest, also poor but with a non white majority voted remain.
Third whitest, bromley, is as poor as redbridge and voted remain by a very narrow margin, 6th largest sutton, poor, voted leave, Greenwich Poor 68% white, remain won by <10%, Hounslow same as greenwich with 51.4% white, Hillingdon, poor, white, voted leave, Barking and Dagenham, poor, white, voted leave,

Second whitest richmond on thames was pricier to live in than the previous examples by a half and voted remain, Wandsworth, Waltham Forest, was same as richmond, Kensington a very rich, very white neighbourhood voted remain by large degree, same with Islington, Hammersmith & Fulham, Camden, Hackney, Merton, Lambeth, Barnet, Westminster, Southwark, Lewisham, Ealing, Haringey and Tower Hamlets.

The trend is clear, prices high vote remain wins, prices low, vote leave gains ground and the outliers to this include all the poor minorty white boroughs.

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BTW, you must be one of the very few who reckons that 40% non-white is not multi-ethnic. The national figure is 12.8%.

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Until an area gets below 50% in any one demographic, to say it is multi anything is giving too much credit to the minority's presence.

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Have you ever been to those boroughs do you know many people living there?
Come to think of it, have you ever been to London???????

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I recently spent 3 years attending university in london whose side course in theatre included visiting areas of the city of varying levels of well-to-do at different hours in the day and night, I have seen my share of london's grime and grandure.

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When more than 20% of the "whites" are not British where does that leave his multi ethnic theory?

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Non british include american, new zealand, australian and various other anglo offshoots which I count among what can be called the british ethnicity.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

1st whitest borough is havering, which is one of the cheapest to live in, IE poorest, same with 4th, bexely. Newham Tower Hamlets, Redbridge and Waltham Forest, also poor but with a non white majority voted remain.
Third whitest, bromley, is as poor as redbridge and voted remain by a very narrow margin, 6th largest sutton, poor, voted leave, Greenwich Poor 68% white, remain won by <10%, Hounslow same as greenwich with 51.4% white, Hillingdon, poor, white, voted leave, Barking and Dagenham, poor, white, voted leave,

Second whitest richmond on thames was pricier to live in than the previous examples by a half and voted remain, Wandsworth, Waltham Forest, was same as richmond, Kensington a very rich, very white neighbourhood voted remain by large degree, same with Islington, Hammersmith & Fulham, Camden, Hackney, Merton, Lambeth, Barnet, Westminster, Southwark, Lewisham, Ealing, Haringey and Tower Hamlets.

The trend is clear, prices high vote remain wins, prices low, vote leave gains ground and the outliers to this include all the poor minorty white boroughs.


Until an area gets below 50% in any one demographic, to say it is multi anything is giving too much credit to the minority's presence.

I recently spent 3 years attending university in london whose side course in theatre included visiting areas of the city of varying levels of well-to-do, I have seen plenty of london's grime and grandure.


Non british include american, new zealand, australian and various other anglo offshoots which I count among what can be called the british ethnicity.

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Well where to start with that pile of crap?
You really don't know London at all. you call "the village" the 4th poorest
I find it hilarious that you define "poor" simply by average house price.
Could you tell me why a "white "neighbourhood" has so many ethnic social clubs? Or all the eastern churches, the temple, the mosque and the synagouge?
Until something gets below 50%????are you insane?
You have seen grime and grandure? You know that they exist in London on the same streets you can walk from one world to the next by crossing a road or turning a corner. You must know than that your simplistic attemt at justifying your views just doesn't fly.

Non british includes non british which you count as british? Is that because you are making no sense and feel the need to grasp at straws

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I recently spent 3 years attending university in london whose side course in theatre included visiting areas of the city of varying levels of well-to-do at different hours in the day and night, I have seen my share of london's grime and grandure.

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:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

1st whitest borough is havering, which is one of the cheapest to live in, IE poorest, same with 4th, bexely. Newham Tower Hamlets, Redbridge and Waltham Forest, also poor but with a non white majority voted remain.
Third whitest, bromley, is as poor as redbridge and voted remain by a very narrow margin, 6th largest sutton, poor, voted leave, Greenwich Poor 68% white, remain won by <10%, Hounslow same as greenwich with 51.4% white, Hillingdon, poor, white, voted leave, Barking and Dagenham, poor, white, voted leave,

Second whitest richmond on thames was pricier to live in than the previous examples by a half and voted remain, Wandsworth, Waltham Forest, was same as richmond, Kensington a very rich, very white neighbourhood voted remain by large degree, same with Islington, Hammersmith & Fulham, Camden, Hackney, Merton, Lambeth, Barnet, Westminster, Southwark, Lewisham, Ealing, Haringey and Tower Hamlets.

The trend is clear, prices high vote remain wins, prices low, vote leave gains ground and the outliers to this include all the poor minorty white boroughs.


Until an area gets below 50% in any one demographic, to say it is multi anything is giving too much credit to the minority's presence.

I recently spent 3 years attending university in london whose side course in theatre included visiting areas of the city of varying levels of well-to-do at different hours in the day and night, I have seen my share of london's grime and grandure.


Non british include american, new zealand, australian and various other anglo offshoots which I count among what can be called the british ethnicity.

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You really don't know anything if you think Havering is poor.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

We're currently in the uncertainty period. That period will begin to end with the triggering of article 50. The certainty period begins when the deadline invoked by article 50 ends.

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I have an impression that the current government are trying to procrastinate and prevaricate hoping that somehow people will forget about the referendum and everything will be as it used to.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

I have an impression that the current government are trying to procrastinate and prevaricate hoping that somehow people will forget about the referendum and everything will be as it used to.

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They now have a ministry for the Brexit.
People work there in cozy jobs which they will probably lose if they do them well.
I mean according to every stereotype, they will try their best to stall and fail, no?

If the job were in private hands, they could hire an adventurous Pakistani manager to find the best way to stop immigration without losing EU benefits. But due to it being a ministry, they can obviously not choose people based on merit but have to go with a British national who can't get a job in the superior private sector... :sweatdrop:

Once is no habit, I agree with Gilrandir.
The problem UK got is to get out of EU without getting out. Sun newspapers and affiliates are printing optimistic titles about Brexit and access to EU market but stopping freedom of movement whereas all European leaders coming here told the BBC it won't happen and UK will have to eat its cake. So May is in hurry not to go too fast in this, and choose the perfect trio to do so as they hate each others wit a vengeance...

Guys, could we try to maintain a level of decorum here?

Also, why am I asking for this and not a mod?

Play the ball not the man.

Greyblades, to his credit, has at least dug up some statistics, and whilst house-price is not the be-all and end-all it IS an indicator of both the desirability of an area and it's average disposable income.

It should also be noted that a Commonwealth Citizen within the UK is functionally the same as a British Citizen. that relationship has become strained in the opposite direction, which is another reason why people voted leave.

Fun fact - about 58% of Britons polled are in favour of the lifting of tariffs and Freedom of Movement restrictions with the other "White Dominions", which are Canada, Australia, and New Zealand and we are by far the least enthusiastic Dominion. White Commonwealth Citizen have a vested personal interest in Brexit because it means better access to the UK for them - Britain will inevitably enter into a Freedom of Labour and Movement Pact with the other three. In fact, if you ask the average Briton who isn't politically knowledgeable they'll assume we already have one.

You see, the EU isn't our natural club. It's sort of like we joined with our wife, then got divorced and now we've finally decided we'd much rather go back to spending Sunday afternoon at the pub.