Maritime abortions

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

the UDHR makes not respecting sovereignty an obligation, not a choice.

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...The UDHR (should) stops governments and people from torturing/enslaving/imprisoning/opressing/generally being a dick to it's and other people. Even if it was enforced in the slightest outside of the first world I'm pretty sure it allows interference on a national level when the country in question is itself violating human rights, and the actual UDHR only mentions soverignty in saying that they aren't allowed to discriminate.

I don't know where you get respecting soverignty from but it isn't in there.

Anyone heard about the cleric who found a kid....the kid didn't find it all that funny

Muha instant joke. Take it Catholics just like your priests take boy-pussy your religion is nothing more than a criminal organisation.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

There is no reason to interfere in Marocco have you ever been there. Leftist people furiously scream for respect but will just never accept that they don't understand anything.

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You said:

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It's tresspassing on their culture imho, screw laws. I don't think very highly of of them but I would never impose myself on them , yet that is exactly is what these attention whores are doing. The greatest proverb we Dutch have is 'live and let live', aka never ever EVER tell someone else how they should live their life. And these attention whores are breaking the law of that consensus

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I gathered from that you say we shouldn't interfere in thier way of doing things just because they are a different culture, I say that's rubbish. If say zimbabwe had a cultural tradition of killing albinos we should interfere whether or not it interferes with thier culture. Morocco isn't as black and white and there is no imperative for national intervention but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to attempt to change it especially when the way they go about it is non violent or forceful.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

You said:


I gathered from that you say we shouldn't interfere in thier way of doing things just because they are a different culture, I say that's rubbish. If say zimbabwe had a cultural tradition of killing albinos we should interfere whether or not it interferes with thier culture. Morocco isn't as black and white and there is no imperative for national intervention but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to attempt to change it especially when the way they go about it is non violent or forceful.

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Just let them be, much better. Once thet realise that they can't keep their culture it is all fine with me, leftist people will furiously want to claw out my eyes because i just want to live my own life but it's normal that lefties get violent if you aren't 100% sure, nothing new

IMO the days of telling others how to rule their countries is over. Independance means they can do whatever they want. If their actions are viewed as "bad" then we can passively act regardng trade; if what they are doing would impinge on us directly then we shoudl defend ourselves.

We've enough problems over here without wasting time and money on what they're doing.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

I don't know where you get respecting soverignty from but it isn't in there.

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I said not respecting ~;)

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Just let them be, much better. Once thet realise that they can't keep their culture it is all fine with me, leftist people will furiously want to claw out my eyes because i just want to live my own life but it's normal that lefties get violent if you aren't 100% sure, nothing new

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And so we arrive at what really matters: the reason why you pour your scorn over this organisation and its members ("narcistic b*tches") is because they're leftists, and everything leftists do is wrong.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

IMO the days of telling others how to rule their countries is over. Independance means they can do whatever they want. If their actions are viewed as "bad" then we can passively act regardng trade; if what they are doing would impinge on us directly then we shoudl defend ourselves.

We've enough problems over here without wasting time and money on what they're doing.

~:smoking:

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It's a volunteer organisation doing this. At the invitation of a Moroccan feminist organisation, I should add.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

... Don't ever read up on early spontaneous abortions then.

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Well aware of them, thank you. In common usage, they are usually addressed under the term "miscarriage" while "abortion" is reserved for a procedure involving outside intervention. Medicos may well use the term "spontaneous abortion" since that is a clear denotative indication of what occurs -- the body itself deciding to terminate the pregnancy for whatever cause. When Catholics pray for the unborn, we pray for those souls as well; how it all "comes together" is way beyond my pay grade.

And yes, I do understand the implicitly misogynistic character of the term "miscarriage." However flawed, that is still the more commonly used term. Nor, given the vehemence of the debate, are you likely to gather broad acceptance for the use of the term "abortion" as the neutral term that will be applied to any pregnancy that ends before birth.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

And so we arrive at what really matters: the reason why you pour your scorn over this organisation and its members ("narcistic b*tches") is because they're leftists, and everything leftists do is wrong.

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Are you ok, a hormonal overdose is ussually a female thing when they have their periods, what's your excuse

I'm perfectly calm, thank you.

WoW is not a leftist project, it also has supporters from VVD and D66. But because some GreenLeft lady is involved in this latest stunt a lot of morons who post at geenstijl.nl or the comment section of nu.nl assume that it's some sort inherently leftist project and slam it without applying as much of a second of critical thought on the issue.
These are the same idiots who tend to vote PVV, who always accuse "the left" of defending islam, but when it's obvious that "the left" is actually taking a stance against it (like now) these same idiots will leap to the defense of islamic conservatives in Morocco, essentially saying we ought to respect their culture.

I know that you were against abortion to begin with, so the above doesn't apply to you. But you make the same mistake of assuming that everything you oppose is leftist, and vice versa. You called these people narcissists and attention whores for no good reason.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Are you ok, a hormonal overdose is ussually a female thing when they have their periods, what's your excuse

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"Hormonal overdose?" This is, at best, innacurate on the science -- ALL humans undergo cyclic hormonal changes, Frags, even your tall, strapping Dutch footie players and the like. On a non-sceintific level, this kind of jibe is dismissive of more than half of our species. Not appropriate.

In addition, while no fan of big government politics myself, I would note that a substantial component of the pro-abortion support with which I am familiar are libertarian types -- quite right wing in their politics and proponents of abortion on a right-wing individual rights basis.

Try cultivating just a dash of cognitive complexity. Accepting ambiguities and disparaging monolithic interpretations may require more effort, but is generally more accurate.

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Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg

Abortion is unjust homicide. People who travel to a country simply to kill the unborn are contemptible.

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That begs the question: Is masturbation genocide or mass murder?

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Originally Posted by Jolt

That begs the question: Is masturbation genocide or mass murder?

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Couldn't be genocide unless you were a single-entity species. As to mass murder, you would be -- at best -- only half right.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Couldn't be genocide unless you were a single-entity species. As to mass murder, you would be -- at best -- only half right.

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Ba ZING!!!

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Well aware of them, thank you. In common usage, they are usually addressed under the term "miscarriage" while "abortion" is reserved for a procedure involving outside intervention. Medicos may well use the term "spontaneous abortion" since that is a clear denotative indication of what occurs -- the body itself deciding to terminate the pregnancy for whatever cause. When Catholics pray for the unborn, we pray for those souls as well; how it all "comes together" is way beyond my pay grade.

And yes, I do understand the implicitly misogynistic character of the term "miscarriage." However flawed, that is still the more commonly used term. Nor, given the vehemence of the debate, are you likely to gather broad acceptance for the use of the term "abortion" as the neutral term that will be applied to any pregnancy that ends before birth.

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If you want to be picky, I can use "Early pregnancy loss" instead. Wasn't my intention to argue on that point. I would consider lumping miscarriage together with "late menstruation" quite flawed though, as the emotional impact is significantly different.

Constructing a system with 25-50% of all souls going directly back is an interesting notion. Now since I've concluded that God is evil in the OT, I do have some ideas, that probably counts as a cruel joke to PVC, so I'll put it in spoilers.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Heaven is powered by the unborn souls of children.
Alternatively, God almost lost, so it's the seal to keep Hell at bay that requires that sacrifice.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

DevDave and Navaros come to mind. The stuffy they said about homosexuals (and from the latter, atheists) was much more outrageous than any "anti-christian" bashing I've seen on this board. I laughed at most of that, too. To be fair DevDave was often just joking around. Navaros was dead serious, which is why he was funny.

I disagree on both.

How about daily, or at least once in every couple of days.

Pedo-priest jokes are funny because they're outrageous. I don't think the "outrage-factor" is that it's offensive to christians, but that it's about pedophelia.

My range of humor is very inclusive. If you know any good jokes about atheists, especially if they're offensive, please tell me.

Have you ever laughed at a joke that targets Germans, referencing WW2? Retard jokes? Irish, Scots, lawyers, or any other kind of joke that could be offensive to the people it refers to?

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I think you're just really insensitive.

Try imagining being the happily married priest who gets called a "nonse" in the street, or worse the child who was/is abused.

Nothing about that is funny.

DevDave and Nav were frequently warned, and banned, for the things they said about homosexuals - so your comparison is not valid.

Have I ever laughed at tasteless jokes? Why, yes I have - but I grew up when I realised that you can tell those jokes and offend someone who's black/Irish/Gay and they won't laugh it off.

Here's the thing - you told a stupid joke about a Bishop and now I am offended. What you do about that is obviously up to you, but th decision you make will reflect what you think of me, as well as the Christians you were aiming at.

Bah

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

you suck footballs through a straw

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I made it more compact

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I think you're just really insensitive.

Try imagining being the happily married priest who gets called a "nonse" in the street, or worse the child who was/is abused.

Nothing about that is funny.

DevDave and Nav were frequently warned, and banned, for the things they said about homosexuals - so your comparison is not valid.

Have I ever laughed at tasteless jokes? Why, yes I have - but I grew up when I realised that you can tell those jokes and offend someone who's black/Irish/Gay and they won't laugh it off.

Here's the thing - you told a stupid joke about a Bishop and now I am offended. What you do about that is obviously up to you, but th decision you make will reflect what you think of me, as well as the Christians you were aiming at.

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I found it hard to believe someone could be seriously offended by a cleric joke. But that said; if someone is offended by a tasteless joke, there's just one option.

Sorry that I offended you.

Liking tasteless jokes is not a matter of maturity; there's no harm done if you keep the audience in mind (the joke in this thread was a mistake). I explained the reasons for that in that thread about Schadenfreude, by HoreTore.

DevDave and Nav were warned, but I'm pretty sure that the backroom mods have also punished members who bashed christianity and went too far. (mods? care to back me up on this?)

Unlike earlier times, Christianity is nowadays just as likely to be an object of scorn and derison as sexuality, political convictions or whatever other label you can think of. This is nothing more or less than parity, but you and others are insinuating that christians are being especially targeted or even persecuted.