Midgardsaga III [Concluded]

Were I not, you know, dead, I would have agreed with Tincow on the vote. Such actions, so early, seem a little too "eager." Pressure might be useful here.

Reenk:

Sad for me too. Our holmgang was a fun one -- especially as I didn't have to walk across my own bridge at the close of it. This time, though, I wouldn't have claimed to be quite as powerful....

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Originally Posted by autolycus

If I had to guess, I'd say it's the number of "troops" your risk army is made up of. That seems to be consistent with the decrease in dice rolled by Major Robert Dump directly before his death. Which begs the question, is vote:classical_hero just a strong man of Holmgang score 8, or is he something more preternaturally powerful?

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Vote: autolycus

*sniff sniff*

You smell wrong. Like you've been bathing or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tratorix

Vote: Classical Hero for now. 7-8 is a pretty huge Holmgang score, what do you have to say for yourself tough guy?

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Vote: Tratorix

So a powerful character equals scum? I'd say you're attacking the easy target here.

Wow. I won the dice rolls and still lost. Peachy.

Juvenile antics.

Rez please.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Believer

Vote: Tratorix

So a powerful character equals scum? I'd say you're attacking the easy target here.

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I say I'm prodding someone to see what happens. We know the Jotun are going to have good Holmgang scores, so expect this to happen to everyone who wins a duel.

Hey, this is my first post in the game. Shame on me for missing the first day. Not enough time on my hand. :no:

Oh well, this looks like another game with no death reveal. What's up with this plague rule, these days?

Anyway, I'll jump in the current discussion:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tratorix

I say I'm prodding someone to see what happens. We know the Jotun are going to have good Holmgang scores, so expect this to happen to everyone who wins a duel.

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I disagree with this - I am expecting some Jotun to have low Holmgang, otherwise the feature would be too advantageous to them, and since challenges are always popular, it would be unbalancing for Sigurd to give high scores to all the Jotun.

Midgardsaga II had three Jotuns, three Aesirs (Thor, Odin, Loki) and three Christians. Other players were nords, from various countries. I think this setup will be similar since we've at least seen "War Veterans" in the writeups, and the previous games also had these roles.

Here's a link to the previous setup.

Also, I'm not sure what the Aesirs were, though they are obviously Gods, maybe power roles. Odin and Thor are typically good, and Loki is evil. I'll have to read more on the previous game tomorrow, gotta hit the sack now, but go ahead and check it yourself. It can't be bad to have an idea what to expect.

I think Sigurd mentioned somewhere that the setup was significantly different. Just a heads-up.

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Originally Posted by Romanic

Hey, this is my first post in the game. Shame on me for missing the first day. Not enough time on my hand. :no:

Oh well, this looks like another game with no death reveal. What's up with this plague rule, these days?

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Yeah, it doesn't even look like we'll know is who in the writeup. That is hugely confusing.
Also, 4 kills the first night and only 2 now? How can this be?

As for the Holmgang result, it sounds to me from the writeup like Classical could be a War Veteran, which might explain his profeciency... Still, 8 is high, even then. MRD sounded like a youngster, he might have had an okay score (his weapons were of good quality)... Also, it seemed like it was really close, with all the wounds Classical took.

While I agree with Romanic that we should not automatically assume a high Holmgang score for all Jotun, I think I'm going to put the pressure on Vote:Classical_Hero for now.

From the OP:

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

This game will still be similar and will have many of the features of the previous games;
Since this is an anniversary, I will not do too many changes from the previous game.
Consider this a Midgard retro game based heavily on the previous two games.

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So it may be a good idea to refer to the previous games, for insights.

Okay, perhaps I misread that. :wall:

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Originally Posted by Diamondeye

While I agree with Romanic that we should not automatically assume a high Holmgang score for all Jotun, I think I'm going to put the pressure on Vote:Classical_Hero for now.

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I made that comment before reading the previous game, but now I am not so sure. The three Jotuns all had a 100/10 Holmgang value, whatever 100 means, but if they all had 10, then indeed a high Holmgang value could mean one is Jotun.

Then perhaps the Holmgang should be seen as a tool to find the Jotun, rather than one to kill them.

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Originally Posted by Romanic

I made that comment before reading the previous game, but now I am not so sure. The three Jotuns all had a 100/10 Holmgang value, whatever 100 means, but if they all had 10, then indeed a high Holmgang value could mean one is Jotun.

Then perhaps the Holmgang should be seen as a tool to find the Jotun, rather than one to kill them.

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Yes, perhaps that's the best way. However, we can't count on just anyone to be able to keep the fight going long enough to be sure the opponent is actually a Jotun and not simply a champion or a war veteran or some other strong townie.

I didn't read the last game - what was the Homgang ability of the Aesir? If they're also powerful this might be a bad idea.

Ah so I read this, from the previous game:

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Holmgang ability: 100 against humans (guarantied win). 10 against other gods.

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Jotun had a guaranteed win against humans, so the challenges are indeed just a tool to find our enemies.

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Originally Posted by Romanic

Ah so I read this, from the previous game:

Jotun had a guaranteed win against humans, so the challenges are indeed just a tool to find our enemies.

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What about the Gods, then? Might we risk bumping into those too? Will we be able to tell them apart? I can't imagine someone like Thor losing to a human...

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Originally Posted by Diamondeye

What about the Gods, then? Might we risk bumping into those too? Will we be able to tell them apart? I can't imagine someone like Thor losing to a human...

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Apparently the Gods also have a guaranteed win against humans, as they have similar Holmgang values than Jotuns. Specifically:

Thor: 100/12
Odin: 100/10
Loki: 100/8

So indeed, we probably won't be able to differentiate a Jotun and a god. Meh.

Considering this, perhaps we shouldn't be challenging at all? We risk revealing the power roles (gods) as much as the Jotuns. I wonder if the Holmgang writeup will show an ability score of 100 if a Jotun/God is challenged by a human, or if it is disguised in some way.

Well, if someone has a score of 100, then short of a "Miracle on dice", they'd just keep rolling three dice until the other guy died.

I rather think that Sigurd will not be posting 100 times in a row to do the dice results. Somehow I think he might have foreseen this (being a dark lord of the sith and all). I am willing to wager that, unlike my previous unread comment, things might in fact be different this time in some way.

That said, I eagerly await the dreaded centuple post.

Well, unless the other guy got reaaally lucky, there wouldn't be anywhere near that many rolls. GH, in future Holmgangs, the question of whether a Jotun would reveal himself or herself like that may be valid, but I don't think anyone was expecting the Holmgang process to be quite so public.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

I will use a new feature to determine the outcome of these fights. This time around they will be quite public.
In risk style the attacker is at disadvantage since matching dice will favour the defender.
In-game dice that can only be used once in a post and not edited after submitted, will be used in this game.

Holmgang as a tool will need to tested out and see how this can affect the town effort.

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FYI...

Nobody expects what the rules clearly state. That would be too obvious.

So it is rather clear that I am quite powerful from the result of the Holmgang. So that means I am not someone you would want to challenge. So does me being powerful mean that I am against you? Surely you should know how I play by now to get a feel for my style of play.

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Originally Posted by classical_hero

So it is rather clear that I am quite powerful from the result of the Holmgang. So that means I am not someone you would want to challenge. So does me being powerful mean that I am against you? Surely you should know how I play by now to get a feel for my style of play.

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Nope, I've been a Gameroom hermit. Spell it out for us.

Btw, this is coming from one of your defenders.

Vote: Classical Hero

Its day 2. Essentially you're telling us to give you plenty of free time and judge later? Nah, I don't think so. I've got all kinds of spook vibes from you.

If I were a Jotun, I would rather not be out in the open this early. I am a power role so it would be good to listen to what I say, Right now I cannot be too open since it will give the Jotun too much info so early in the game, but since they know I am powerful it should be obvious who I am. So those of like qualities should get in contact with me. I have contacted a few people about the game and what they are doing. There is one person who I am wondering about her activities and if they are legitimate, which they might be, but Want to put some pressure on vote:Tincow.

I am wondering if anyone else agrees with me, but I am feeling that having 48 hours for the day would good, since am busy right now and it would be very useful, since this will be the only time I have available to be posting and voting. Also considering this is a large game things can happen quickly, it would be good to have time to work things out.

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Originally Posted by issaikhaan

Vote: Classical Hero

Its day 2. Essentially you're telling us to give you plenty of free time and judge later? Nah, I don't think so. I've got all kinds of spook vibes from you.

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It's day two and I am out in the open as a powerful role. Not a clever strategy of mine if I were evil, considering I put up the challenge myself, knowing I could get outted. As someone said, using the challenge system is a good way to see who are the power roles in this game. There are some good roles also.

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Originally Posted by classical_hero

There is one person who I am wondering about her activities and if they are legitimate, which they might be, but Want to put some pressure on vote:Tincow.

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Why would you expose me like this before even replying to my PM? You have just killed me to save yourself, not a very townie action.

Meh. Not a clever strategy if you're good, either, unless you happen to be bulletproof. It's all WIFOM.

We'll see how long you survive, and that will determine when we lynch you. Make yourself useful in the meantime with your god-powers or something.

Also- if MRD was level 4, that means he was powerful for a townie. I'd say you killed a king or a prince or something.

Vote: Tratorix

I thought you were gonna fight me. Change your mind?

What is going on do people suddenly not like me this is the forth game in a row where I died early.

vote: Tratorix. Someone ought to check out Classical_hero. It is way too early to start blindly lynching possible power roles. On the other hand Tratorix reaction smells to me as: "Ahaa,cotcha!"

Vote: General Hankerchief It´s so easy to vote for me, I´m basically Mafia Catnip.

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Originally Posted by classical_hero

If I were a Jotun, I would rather not be out in the open this early. I am a power role so it would be good to listen to what I say, Right now I cannot be too open since it will give the Jotun too much info so early in the game, but since they know I am powerful it should be obvious who I am. So those of like qualities should get in contact with me. I have contacted a few people about the game and what they are doing. There is one person who I am wondering about her activities and if they are legitimate, which they might be, but Want to put some pressure on vote:Tincow.

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It took me about five reads and TinCow's reply to get that, but WHY would you say such a thing? And with no information attached, just the implication that TinCow is a power role? I can't for the life of me figure out why a Jotun would do such a thing in quite that way, but that was a bad move for a townie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by classical_hero

It's day two and I am out in the open as a powerful role. Not a clever strategy of mine if I were evil, considering I put up the challenge myself, knowing I could get outted. As someone said, using the challenge system is a good way to see who are the power roles in this game. There are some good roles also.

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Just a note on this. Don't assume the Jotun won't challenge. The odds of actually fighting are not huge as long as multiple challenges continue to be issued each day; it could easily be thought of as a relatively safe way of purchasing some cheap townie cred.

I think that votes for TC and Classical_Hero should be cast at some other direction. I can only hope that by surfacing of possible power roles Jotun were dump enough to try and get them lynched.In my mind the top suspects right now are autolycus,Tratorix, Diamondeye and Khaan.


Tally:

Renata 1 (Reenk, )
classical_hero 4 (autolycus,Tratorix, Diamondeye,Khaan)
Khazaar 1 (GH)
GH 2 (W&f, Khazaar)
Mr. Stuka 1 (TC)
autolycus 1 (ATPG)
Tratorix 3 (Believer, Chaotix, Kagemusha)
Tincow 1 (classical_hero)

I guess I'll join the Tratorix wagon. I actually find Auto's vote more suspicious, but I seem to find him suspicious and get him lynched as a townie every other game lately. Someone else do it for once, if it needs to be done.

vote: Tratorix

vote: Tratorix

NO GINGERBREADMEN FOR MOOOOO!!

Ah, see, this is why I usually lurk, I only get myself into trouble. :laugh4: I'm keeping my vote on classical_hero, as I don't like the fact that he panicked and started flailing around when pressured.

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Originally Posted by Chaotix

Also- if MRD was level 4, that means he was powerful for a townie. I'd say you killed a king or a prince or something.

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The kings in the last Midgard all had champions who could take their place in a duel, so not necessarily.

Hmm, considering Tincow's stance towards the easy release of information I am then curious about why you then revealed your actions or something along those lines to Classical so easily, it being only the second lynch phase.

Vote: Tincow

Do tell.

Re-read through and thought better of it.

Unvote: Tincow

The explanation would still be nice though.

Vote: Tratorix

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Originally Posted by Death is yonder

Hmm, considering Tincow's stance towards the easy release of information I am then curious about why you then revealed your actions or something along those lines to Classical so easily, it being only the second lynch phase.

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I did not reveal anything to him. He sent me a typical early-game blackmail/feeler style PM. I responded with the traditional retort, beginning the long process of figuring out whether he was someone I could talk to. He never responded, and instead voted for me. Quite rude, and it begs the question why he bothered with the PM to me at all if he was so content to publicly name me.

vote: classical hero

Not so much out of suspicion (though I do question your behavior), but more to put you at a tie with Tratorix, whom I do not find scummy.

unvote, vote: B_Ray

That was a terrible reason for voting.

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Originally Posted by Diamondeye

Also, 4 kills the first night and only 2 now? How can this be?

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Naked guy running around probably is not related to the Jotun. Lucky for you as it kinda lets you off the hook for suspicion killing me as a townie, since you could guess I'd be challenging you eventually. But all the kills must not be Jotun.

The lack of reveals is killer though. I'm assuming the color coding means nothing, though there is a possibility only townies and no power roles or kings at all died so far. The names/writeups of the people who died appear to be in order of the dead list too, don't know why that was missed but seems right.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

unvote, vote: B_Ray

That was a terrible reason for voting.

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Seconded, though I wonder what you think about CH vs tratorix yourself. It doesn't seem CH will be around to explain himself any further before the deadline, tratorix has apparently said all he is going to, and your vote doesn't do anything either way.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Seconded, though I wonder what you think about CH vs tratorix yourself. It doesn't seem CH will be around to explain himself any further before the deadline, tratorix has apparently said all he is going to, and your vote doesn't do anything either way.

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I have a good feeling about classical_hero. I'd wager my head we should not lynch him.

No opinion on Tratorix. I don't find him scummy but I'm not going to lift a finger to save him. Though it is nice to see him again. Hi Tratorix! ~:wave:

I think we could do well with pressuring other people.

unvote: GH, vote: tratorix

classical hero seems more like a flailing protown role than a flailing mafioso. Didn't he use a warhammer in his Holmgang? I'm betting he is Thor.

How close is the deadline?

Are you just lynching Tratorix to save C_H? It's not a good reason in my opinion. If there's time I think we should maybe come up with something better.

I need to be somewhere around the deadline and might be a few hours late.
Consider any votes past the deadline for invalid.
You have aprox. 1 1/2 hours left. It is now 20:26 GMT

That's plenty of time if we have a few active people. The tally isn't outrageous.

I am leaning B_Ray or Khaan. Khaan's always a bit of a slithery slippery scummy character, and I've been lusting for his blood for a good long time now, resisting my ever-present urges. I'd be happy with either one.

Khaan for the C_H wagon and his silly "spook" reasoning, B_Ray for the Tratorix wagon/bad reasoning.

Also, I'll be gone just before 5 as I have guy-with-an-axe related job duties to attend to for the next 9 hours. But I'll be here if you need a swing vote.

I'm pretty sure that CH is Thor. I'm also hoping to put some distance between the first and second place person as ties apparently result in no lynch.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I have a good feeling about classical_hero. I'd wager my head we should not lynch him.

No opinion on Tratorix. I don't find him scummy but I'm not going to lift a finger to save him. Though it is nice to see him again. Hi Tratorix! ~:wave:

I think we could do well with pressuring other people.

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Well my point was that unless I've lost track of the deadline AGAIN (which is quite possible these days), there's only about a half hour to go, and you voting b-ray in that situation is kind of pointless as far as pressure goes. (Nor does it accomplish anything in terms of keeping CH's head out of the noose.)

Why don't we all just advertise that C_H is probably Thor. Gosh, if it wasn't clear from the writeup, he's all but admitted he's a god in-thread.

:wall:

Where is the subtlety anymore. Remember back in the day we could just be like "Nah, don't think we should lynch him" and people would give you the benefit of the doubt for like a round or two? Instead we have to have big glowing neon signs that say HEY MURDER THIS PERSON.

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Originally Posted by Chaotix

Meh. Not a clever strategy if you're good, either, unless you happen to be bulletproof. It's all WIFOM.

We'll see how long you survive, and that will determine when we lynch you. Make yourself useful in the meantime with your god-powers or something.

Also- if MRD was level 4, that means he was powerful for a townie. I'd say you killed a king or a prince or something.

Vote: Tratorix

I thought you were gonna fight me. Change your mind?

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How do you figure that MRD was a king for having Holmgang = 4?

Looking at the previous games, kings had Holmgang values of 7 and 8, and since Sigurd mentioned a similar setup, I'm tempted to believe that MRD was not a King.

Which is also why I don't like lynching classical_hero - He's got HG = 8, which is fit for a King, according to the previous game (Loki also had 8, against other gods or Jotun, which would imply MRD was one of these. Clearly he wasn't, with a score of 4).

So I can't push for a CH lynch yet, although I would like to hear a claim from here, at this point.

vote: Tratorix - to protect a possible king. The case against him doesn't really appeal to me, but what can you do.

CH is Thor? Hmm... Wouldn't Thor appear to have more Holmgang if he was to fight against a weak human like MRD probably was? (given is low score of 4).

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Originally Posted by ATPG

No opinion on Tratorix. I don't find him scummy but I'm not going to lift a finger to save him. Though it is nice to see him again. Hi Tratorix!

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Hi PizzaGuy!

There's nothing else I can really say at this point. The only one close to me in votes is classical hero and he's claimed a powertown role, which I cannot. Here's my role pm, just for posterity.

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Originally Posted by Role P.M.

Human – Tratorix

Truls Magnesson

You are a War Veteran and in the service of the king of Rogaland. You are basically a townie with high Holmgang stats


Holmgang ability : 3 (WarVeteran) = 3

Good Luck!!!

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I really don't like the fact that Renata's jumped on two bandwagons in two rounds. I also think classical hero might as well just reveal at this point, as it doesn't really hurt him since he's practically already done so. He can keep Holmgang score and abilitys secret if he wants, but I'd like to see the rest of his role pm.

Hey, if there is already a big neon sign we may as well add some fireworks as well. Maybe we can get the oldspice guy as well.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Why don't we all just advertise that C_H is probably Thor. Gosh, if it wasn't clear from the writeup, he's all but admitted he's a god in-thread.

:wall:

Where is the subtlety anymore. Remember back in the day we could just be like "Nah, don't think we should lynch him" and people would give you the benefit of the doubt for like a round or two? Instead we have to have big glowing neon signs that say HEY MURDER THIS PERSON.

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If I understand it right, CH had AT LEAST 8; he never dropped below three dice. So 8 is his minimum; max could be anything.

Quote:

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Renata 1 (Reenk, )
classical_hero 5 (autolycus,Tratorix, Diamondeye,Khaan, B_Ray
Khazaar 1 (GH)
GH 1 (Khazaar)
Mr. Stuka 1 (TC)
B_Ray 1 (ATPG)
Tratorix 7 (Believer, Chaotix, Kagemusha, Renata, Warman, DIY, Woad)
Tincow 1 (classical_hero)

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Based on Kage's previous tally.

I thought the tally was closer.

Between Renata, myself, Tratorix, anyone listening, and possibly Kage if I can wake him up, we could probably pile a bunch of votes on someone.

I'm not sure it is worth the risk to C_H. Are you ready to take one for the team, Tratorix?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renata

If I understand it right, CH had AT LEAST 8; he never dropped below three dice. So 8 is his minimum; max could be anything.

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Ah, I thought it was said that he had exactly 8. It changes my perspective then, as he could be a King, power role or Jotun.

*scratches head*

unvote: Tratorix

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Based on Kage's previous tally.

I thought the tally was closer.

Between Renata, myself, Tratorix, anyone listening, and possibly Kage if I can wake him up, we could probably pile a bunch of votes on someone.

I'm not sure it is worth the risk to C_H. Are you ready to take one for the team, Tratorix?

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We could lynch Mr. Stuka. He seemed a bit scummy to me last round and hasn't shown up this time. I'll Unvote: Classical Hero for now and if anyone wants to help me save my skin, I'll go along with it. If not, well, it's not the first time I've been bandwagoned and it probably won't be the last.

Nominations for third alternative:

B_Ray, Khaan (Askthepizzaguy)

You guys?

Edit:

Mr. Stuka (Tratorix)

The suggested options seem fine. I'd be willing to bandwagon any of those three.

Vote: Mr. Stuka is my choice.

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Originally Posted by Tratorix

Vote: Mr. Stuka is my choice.

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I have no objection, but consensus is a tricky thing. We're working it out via PM and IM due to time constraints.

For the record I'll vote anyone but c_h. I just prefer to have reasons too.

I'll add a bit more reasoning here, cause I don't want to edit a vote post. When I challenged Mr. Stuka last day phase( when challenges weren't being accepted) he claimed to be a champion almost immediately and then did everything possible to try and fade into the background. He hasn't even lodged a vote in this day phase. Seems like exactly what I tried to do in my first couple games as mafia, try to draw as little attention as possible while still technically remaining active.

Edit: I'm not sold on Bray or khaan, but if it comes down to them or me, I believe you can count on my support. :wink:

I fear that a lot of people have good reasons to avoid the spotlight in this game. It's tough to suggest that means scum. I want more than just that personally.

vote: B_Ray

Based on his last vote. Can't do better than this, gotta run to work. :(

Sorry; Romanic is leaving like immediately and time pressure is killing me. The only one I could get consensus on was B_Ray.

Sorry B_Ray. I really hope you're scum.

Er, vote: B_Ray

Well, you're not going to find it. It's round 2, any case against anyone is pretty much just gut feelings. The case against people so far, for anyone interested.

Classical Hero: High Holmgang stat.

Tratorix: Voted for Classical Hero.

Mr. Stuka: See above.

B Ray: ATPG Hunch.

Khaan: ATPG Hunch.

Unvote; Tratorix
Vote: B_Ray

I hate that my 1500 post has to go this way, but Unvote, Vote: B Ray. Sorry dude, don't know if you're scum but I trust you less than myself.

unvote: tratorix, vote: B_Ray
Bandwagon!

By the way, I want to Homgang some lurkers. Anyone have any suggestions?

Well if the B_Ray lynch is bad, that will be my fault since I pressed for it.

This post gives me pause as a potential reason not to vote B_Ray, but... he was under pressure at the time and even a scum could say that.

I think there may be enough support to go with Stuka if people are still active and discussing near the deadline. I can move off of B_Ray if you need me to.

You can if you want, but in 20 minutes my votes locked in as I'm going out to eat. If you decide to try it, it better be before then. And Romanic's vote is already locked.

Trat, me, atpg, renata, tincow
If Renata is on board I would prefer stuka over B_Ray as well.

Quote:

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B_Ray 5 (ATPG, romanic, Believer Tratorix, Woad
Tratorix 5 (, Chaotix, Kagemusha, Renata, Warman, DIY, )
classical_hero 4 (autolycus,, Diamondeye, Khaan, B_Ray
Renata 1 (Reenk)
Khazaar 1 (GH)
GH 1 (Khazaar)
Mr. Stuka 1 (TC)
Tincow 1 (classical_hero)

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Not checked, hasty tally.

Yes, there are enough currently active people to move to Mr. Stuka, sparing c_h, B_Ray, and Trat_orix

I will do it if that's the call. B_Ray still needs to be pressured about his soft claim IMO.

unvote: B_Ray; Vote: Mr. Stuka

I'll be a team player. Fingers crossed.

Unvote, vote: Mr. Stuka

I do have to run to work now though.