At almost any point in history boyo, at almost any point in history you'd care to name....Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
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At almost any point in history boyo, at almost any point in history you'd care to name....Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Glad to see that bashing the colonial overlords is a shared pastime among celtic nations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
The only way I could foresee Brittany seeking for independance is in the case of Mme Le Pen winning. Her beloved father was born in Brittany, but bretons in general dislike such ideologies much more than the average french. Apart from that, nationalism has always been very weak, something like between five and ten percent, divided in a residual catholic far-right wing (with a prestigious history, including collaboration with the SS), some christian-democrats and a very strong far-left component (itself divided the way the far-left knows how).Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Breton speakers don't feel threatened now. Until thirty years ago, yes, but grudge and resentment are not valid fuels.
The language is not lost and the music thrives, where is the menace?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOgfjKOcCjg
Damn, I forgot that one, especially for you Gilrandir:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1yS4TvhUQ I suppose the lady sings in Irish, not sure.
What do you want to know about Liberté, Egalité and Fraternité:clown:? I'm of french education after all, I may be able to enlighten you with a whole lot of theories. Theories!~;pQuote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
That's because Russia isn't interested in them so far. If it were, it would make them feel that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
I was referring to some statements here that claimed Russians and Russian-speakers in Ukraine felt linguistically threatened, although Russian in Ukraine is widely used (in some spheres dominating over other languages).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
:bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
Some people here claimed that they aren't theories in France, but a full-fledged comprehensive and ubiquitous practice which makes Musim obscurantists especially enraged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
That day we'll probably stand along the Tatars, Kalmuks and Buriats. Bunch of winners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
The close proximity between Russian and Ukrainian makes it much easier to use as a vicious political tool, in my opinion. I remember when I learned Russian in middle school (mid 80's) the teachers told us there was less distance between Russian and Ukrainian than between french practiced in Switzerland and Belgium. Different but well... good old CCCP at that time. Linguistic imperialism from the power in Russia looks more like the efforts of the french republic to wipe out french's dialectal variants (done, and for long, dead with the music and so). I suspect a french invention adopted and enhanced by russian and soviet political philosophy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Social and racial prejudice at home, nice propaganda straight from our precious mid-eastern allies fed the Beast enough it did not have to face this full-fledged etc, etc... to bite hard. Speeches about Jihadis being motivated par our practice of freedom are true for foreigners maybe. But most terrorists here are locals. So they know the truth: full fledge etc etc EXCEPT if you are part of the colored lumpen: everything becomes thrice harder if you're a woman, four times if you are a man (local woman having it twice harder than men to begin with). The bad 10%, sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Must note than the same scale applies to rural areas: Hillbillies in building. Thanks to our sens of Egalité, social prejudice is not restricted to a racial issue anymore. The other bad 10. Crap!
What do you think of the adoption of Franglais by the younger age groups in Cameroon? It's apparently developed from the ground up, with children from Anglo and Franco phone areas finding it easier to converse in a mixture of the two rather than the prescribed French.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
@Trituskhan:
https://blogs.mediapart.fr/ker-beirh...-parler-breton
Hoax.
But then. Britany was French before Les Dombes, annexed by Louis XV le Bien Aimé (Parliament of Trevoux)
Interesting. And? Do you want us to count every hoax that was used in the building of every nation? Pointless. If it became so common so fast, it may be because people who had to live under this regime felt it was a very good piece of understatement (litote, in french...). My father, who had to wear the symbole will be stunned when I tell him. Because it's exactly this taste that remains: défense de parler breton et de cracher par terre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Wales was part of the United Kingdom long before, anyway what does this have to do with linguistic rights?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Language in building. Welcome since mankind usually extincts languages much too fast. I dare being racist saying I trust african kids to make it perfectly fit for use. I'll find the first novel published.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
Bashing the British is a longstanding French tradition. They mostly can't do it to those living on the island of Great Britain, so they vent their anger on those living on the continent instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
Breton's most hated:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
3 - english pigs. Been insulting our shores for too long. Stole the Capital God Himslef had given us: Londinum.
2 - parisian dogs, who usually have a Breton Spaniel for father. At work: painful inefficient fragile chatters who claim being craftsmen too much.
1 - untermenschen from Vendée (the ugly depressive place under the Loire). When a man dies in sin, his soul goes in Vendée.
Naturally there is nothing serious in those loathes. Except for Vendéens, and parisians at work, of course.
"défense de parler breton et de cracher par terre." Sauf que c'est faux. Simple à prouver: pas de décret d'application pour interdire le Breton, sauf par Combes en 1904.
For the rare not speaking French: Not true. Simple to prove if this placard is true: Finding the executive power to forbid Briton. There is none. Only one from Combes, forbidding priest to use Briton in Confession and another thing... So, hoax.
"Wales was part of the United Kingdom long before, anyway what does this have to do with linguistic rights?" Absolutely none. Just for the fun and history. Breton dies because a lot of britons speaking French and Breton (small amount) married a lot of French not knowing Briton, kids learned only French.
Classic phenomenon, living in UK, none of my nieces and nephews, or grand children speak French...
"Bashing the British is a longstanding French tradition." Sorry to disappoint by most of the French will bash USA. The French bashing in UK however is real (but not too often, to be fair), as you can say about the French what you couldn't say for other countries. When I write you, it is not you personally.
But, hey, "Honni soit qui mal y pense"...
"and parisians at work, of course." Of course... :yes:
Come on, every teacher was officially missionned to crush local idioms. Official Policy. The Combes decreet is some other thing: prelude to the 1905 law on laïcité. That's another (broader) focus. That's outstanding how such a common thing in Europe, support of the State for local tongues, seems so extravagant for the average french.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Nothing fatal: breton was expelled from my father's generation, by bullying in the schools of the Republic. I speak much much much better than him. In fact, he avoids speaking breton: mission accomplished. I had to learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
... will bash USA if they feel the need to bash a foreign country. Most of time I feel we're more proxy-bashers far from the major cities. Like Alsacians and Lorrains, Ardenese and Champenois, Cevenols and Cantalous, Bretons and Vendéens, Jurassiques and Bressans, 15/16th corsican blooded and 16/16th corsican blooded, people from the plateau and people from the collines... Seen from my deep outback.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Last time I bashed the Brits was when they decided for not one but two shiny new aircraft carriers. Such fun toy could have became the ultimate ships for the building of a EU Navy. And then, poof! Brexit! Sigh....
I don't know anything about different dialects/variations of French and their mutual intelligibility, but as for Ukrainian/Russian intelligibility, according to different estimates it is 40-60%. The safe bet would be around 50%:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/...slavic-family/
I doubt it is that little for Belgian/Swiss French.
Brenus basing his judgement on social media rather than on personal experience of a witness/victim? Impossible!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Which means there was/is no grass root/unofficial censure and bullying?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Looks that it proves my teachers were definitely french teachers of their times... Ukrainian, a language? No! Breton still alive? No! Benefits of early bilinguism? No!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
I gave up Russian when I was 18, a pain of a grammar and, at that time, sheer intolerance of Russians towards approximative russian ( did it change since then?) were too much for me. Still the second most singing language I heard after Kinyarwanda.
Frankly did not know about such distance between Russian and Ukrainian. The only ukrainian author I read is Andreï Kurkov translated and he writes in russian (and some poems by Taras Chevchenko translated here and there, maybe some of the soviet novelists I read were also ukrainian, dunno).
I don't know that person! He said the language I speak with my cousins when I'm home, while drinking, listening music and smoking pot is dead! Glad to hear about it, I'll tell the family. They'll be as stunned as my Pa when I'll tell him he was not bullied during his childhood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Always ask a Gaul when you feel ready to learn about some shocking truth about yourself.
Once more, during our presidential campaign, language policy will be mentionned. Just the way legalisation of cannabis will be mentionned. Yes we must seriously think about it and from the beginning conclude it's a big NO. End of the "debate", democracy at it's max and so on, the things that anger jihadists you know.
http://www.marianne.net/affaire-assi...100247390.html
Interesting piece of news (google translate or better: speak french). A summary of corruption affairs shows corruption is as high inside our far-right than among the old parties. Figures even show them a little more corrupt BUT it's probably the same phenomenon that make recent immigrants more likely to get caught in crime statistics: being newcomers to the party they don't know yet how to avoid getting caught.
So Madame Le Pen was using YOUR money, dear EU fellows, to fatten her clan, it seems.
Meanwhile, the polls show no change to Jean-Marine's popularity, that can make one think approval of her is not based on her anti-corruption anti-apparatchik stance but more on her sheer racism. Unsurprisingly.
I don't know what you mean by "singing language" - "euphonic/melodious" or "good for singing songs in it". If it is the former, then (an arbitrary claim) Ukrainian rates second after Italian in this aspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
And Russian money as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...n-backer-fails
I meant the first, indeed. Try to have an ear at Kinyarwanda, it's a ravishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
And Gil, what about Rusyns?
Rusyns are an ethnic group living in Western Ukraine (mostly Transcarpathia). Some of them claim that their language is apart from Ukrainian, but most scholars call it a dialect of Ukrainian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
"That's outstanding how such a common thing in Europe, support of the State for local tongues, seems so extravagant for the average french." I think it is because French nationaliship is not based on territories, languages or ethnicities. As, I far as I am concerned, the example of Yugoslavia. I don't want a balkanisation of France.
The difference between various French is due to usage. My friend from Lille will use different verbs or words than me, and I don't speak of the accent. French Canadians of course have a much "purest" French than ours, due their position og linguistic minority. When I was sick in Africa, a girlfriend did "offre sa compassion", which is not really used in France. Each French speaking country of course made this language their, same for English.
"Come on, every teacher was officially missioned to crush local idioms" In the XIX century, early XX Century, yes, self missioned, not official as proved by the lack of Executive Power to enforced a law. They were as well committed to hygiene (this about the not spitting on the floor, Pasteur having "invented" the microbes). I personally perfectly remember my female teacher in CP checking our hands above the wrist and our nails to check our state of cleanness!!! So, I can considered I was bullied as well, so my friends forbidden to speak the local language which I am unable to named.
And btw, it was during the XIII century that the Duke of Normandy's administration went from writing in Latin to French, without passing by Briton... Francis the 1st and his ordonnance of Villers-Cotterêts (1539) impose French in all administration of his Kingdom. So much to blame the extension of local languages on the "black hussars of the republic".
I think Fillon is down now. Next!!!! "Qu'ils dégagent"!!!
If not dead, pretty much on it way:
"Selon le sondage TMO de Fañch Broudig réalisé en 2009, il y aurait 172 000 locuteurs actifs dans les cinq départements de la Bretagne historique, ce qui représente 5 % de la population bretonne (mais l'auteur précise que 35 000 personnes seulement le parlent quotidiennement) 3. En effet, le breton est, après le français, la première langue parlée dans la région de la Bretagne4, devant le gallo, ayant sept fois moins de locuteurs. Depuis les années 1980, il n'est plus attesté de brittophone monolingue.
Le breton est reconnu comme langue régionale ou minoritaire de France et comme langue de la région de la Bretagne, aux côtés du français et du gallo. Il est classé comme « langue sérieusement en danger » selon l'Unesco"
5 % of Britanny population know to speak Briton so 172,000... Only 35,000 speak it on daily basis. Well, no comment...
Certes certes. Ordinary cultural rights for Brittany = independance = a wall YOU french will pay for = proxy war to steal Mt St Michel from the Normands = failed genocide of Vendéens (place is so dull we'll give up fast) then we invade Poland to have an access to the sea. All that because breton was given the position most linguistic minorities in Europe already have. That's stupid. Balkanisation of France won't come from cultural rights. Comparison with Yugoslavia would need more substance, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Yes, Hygiene. What a great comparison to support your logics. Insulting a bit, maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Duke of what? Invalid: european nobility were not part of the people they ruled and the Dukes of Brittany, as far as we know, never spoke breton. I again don't see how it makes a point and makes it legitimate to let breton die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
With such logics I'll use the fact that the oldest surviving breton text is a treaty of medecine date c.750. French, 842 if I remember well, sons of Charlemagne dividing his empire. Those, like your's, are interesting facts but have no weight in the debate on linguistic rights today.
I'd love to share your optimism but...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Anyway, you're right, let's celebrate a bit, we deserve it.
Danger of extinction comes mostly from the lack of official support, again. Official support means survival: Scottish Gaelic would very likely be dead without official support. Well, it is not and that's a good thing, whatever the future can be. Note that there are as many people speaking Gaelic that there are speaking breton, meaning a much lesser proportion of the total population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Tristuskhan is clearly quite capable of of defending his own people, so I'll just make a few final points for everyone's consideration, hopefully Brenus might take note.
1. Whether the sign was real or not is less important that the fact that Breton-speakers from that period are willing to believe it was. This tells you a great deal about the time period, and similar stories comes from most minority groups across Europe (including the UK) from that period. Teachers were not sent in with explicit orders to crush Breton and other regional languages, but they were sent from other parts of France to enforce the learning of French as defined by Paris. What this meant was that the teachers could only communicate with their Pupils in French and therefore had to enforce the speaking of French.
2. It should be pointed out that the enforcing of French as the national language of government and business was an essential building block of a unitary "French" state after the Revolution overthrew what was essentially a quasi-Feudal and quasi-Federal regime. The motto of the Republic is Liberté, égalité, fraternité "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" in French. Brotherhood for those speaking French then, equality and and liberty via the French language. The regional languages were, therefore designates patois and French was designated the Gallic "mother tongue". This was taken to absurd levels even into the mid 19th Century when it was argued by the members of the Academe that French had a Gallic rather than Latin base - the arternative being to admit French was a highly divergent Latin patois.
Now - back to the election.
Seems the immigrant communities in the French suburbs have been rioting for several days now:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ung-black-man/
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...202629347.html
The spark appears to have been the arrest and sodomising of an immigrant youth by Police. He's in hospital and the officers in question have been charged - but apparently riots were continuing as of last night.
I cannot but think this is good for Le Pen - I realise that rioting is a traditional French expression of political discontent but these scenes seem excessive given the perpetrators have been arrested, and apparently the rioters have set a nursury school on fire. Despite the reported damage this doesn't seem to be making the BBC website. That smells a bit fishy.
Some of you may ignore the tradition of impunity for the Police, here in France, which is a major and legitimate (in my eyes) cause of rioting. Police hierarchy is currently trying hard to have the charge reverted to simple police brutality from the rape charge chosed by the Justice (a charge that is not so easily forgotten).
The cops have, at least, stopped saying the boy impalled himself voluntarily on the truncheon or that the whole affair was just fully accidental (the boy slipped on the floor and came to rest with 10cms of the thing in his bottom, what? that happens!). Such attitudes alone is well enough to create a minor surge of violence in the banlieues.
Police in France has never been renowned for it's subtlety but recruitments those last years was done at an appalingly low level. Many speak and behave with any citizen like the scum they are supposed to confront.
Edit: hell no, they keep on saying it was an accident. Some never learn.
The BBC has a habit of going 2/3 guardian when it comes to minority matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
"Police in France has never been renowned for it's subtlety but recruitments those last years was done at an appalingly low level. Many speak and behave with any citizen like the scum they are supposed to confront." Agree. The destruction of all aspect of the Service Public (from Post to Police de proximité) by Sarkolland and the systematic destruction of all the tool of creation of citizenship on the name of money didn't improve the situation...
:clown: Take a very good ship, get rid of half the strokers, put twelve captains and two admirals in charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Blame the few remaining strokers cos' the ship does not run anymore. I live with that at the ONF (National Forest Office), full of useless managerial clones with absolute despise of the Art.
Advertisement for French Revolution game on the Org.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...sign-up-thread
Apparently Le Pen is now favourite to win...
So, Geert Wilders for the Netherlands next? Fragony will be happy.
What are the London betting shops giving for odds in this?
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
It also shows Fillon at 9-4, so that doesn't seem like a "done deal" yet
Oh look: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ided-by-police
Le Pen's headquarters raided by Police - well that'll likely improve her odds further.
Now she can claim she's being harassed as well.
Idiots.
"Le Pen's headquarters raided by Police - well that'll likely improve her odds further.
Now she can claim she's being harassed as well.
Idiots."
So you think that the fact she stole money should be ignored for political reason? She is under investigation...
And her claiming to be harassed is not new, her father used the same technic.
About polls, French journalists infecting foreign journalists. Don't believe them. The result is within the ones who never vote, not on the ones who always vote.
Where did you read that? She'll likely rank first on 1st round but shall lose on 2nd round, whoever she'll be facing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
No, I think that raiding her headquarters shortly before the election was a political stunt that will backfire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
The assumption is that there will be a second round. It is possible, though uncommon, for a candidate to win in the first round. So it comes down to electoral habits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
Specifically - how many people unenthused by the two "mainstream" candidates in contention will assume Le Pen won't win in the first round? If Le Pen can mobilise all her supporters in the first round and the other candidates under-perform due to apathy she could win outright. Assuming she doesn't win outright you still have to account for the recent skew in polling suggesting Le Pen's support might be under-represented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
I wonder what were the odds on Brexit and Trump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
3-1, either the bookies have cottoned on to the trends of the time or le pen is about to lose the hat-trick.
That's why I was interested in the guesstimates of the London betting houses -- polls are not always as accurate as they claim [not that the math doesn't work out; the problems are usually with question phrasing and or sample selection].Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
"Specifically - how many people unenthused by the two "mainstream" candidates in contention will assume Le Pen won't win in the first round? If Le Pen can mobilise all her supporters in the first round and the other candidates under-perform due to apathy she could win outright. Assuming she doesn't win outright you still have to account for the recent skew in polling suggesting Le Pen's support might be under-represented." Unlikely. We have roughly 4 or 5 potential 2nd turner. Fillon (Conservative) who is having hard time because paying his family on Taxes payers money... Macron, the air balloon full of helium, favourite and champion of the media. He made a political suicide last week about French Colonisation and Crime against Humanity. Hamon, coming from the actual government, hardly socialist, having no programme but a balance sheet near to bankruptcy statement... Le Pen of course, no programme, but banking on the successive failures of previous government to deliver jobs, and blaming the foreigners... Having problem with taxes, but her base doesn't care. Jean Luc Mélenchon, leftist, against austerity, regain the flag and the symbol of the Republic from the Extreme Right. Born in Morocco, from Spanish ascendant... Black sheep for the media, and the only danger for the upper-class.
They are all around 13-15%.
All will be decided by the 60 % who didn't go to vote the last elections, tired to be betrayed by politicians...
The moods in France is the "great sweep", the "dégagisme", Fillon being the last victim of it. Le Pen can count on her basis, but figures show she didn't increase her base, it is the abstentionist as I who will make the difference if we decide to go to vote. We usually do when Le Pen is on. As Tristuskhan said, 25 % or even 30% is nothing if 75 or 70% vote against.
She was 3rd at the last election, and got 2 Representatives at the National Assembly...
We'll know this afternoon if we can add Bayrou to the list. Someone educated, at least, but with a whole buch of incompetent friends (actual and potential: treason is coming among the smoothly conservatives).Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
And the thing about Airship Macron crashing on colonial memories: too bad. What does he think, that everyone has a good knowledge of colonial history? The conquest of Algeria was a huge series of crimes against humanity (awful... but few, few really know about it, In France and in Algeria too) but puting all this stuff on the political scene is pure foolishness.
I'm not good at gambling business. Does it mean that bookmakers "predicted" Trump's victory and Brexit? If it does, it would be a good idea to replace polling services with bookmakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Eh, it means they didnt think it was as unlikely as the polls but a 3-1 odds isnt what you give to what you think is a dead certain.
They thought the risk of victory was low enough to justify offering 3 for every 1 pound people bet on trump winning. The equivalent of a 25-33% prediction, whereas le pen is more 33-50%
Alas the last true oracle is dead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Octopus
I mean, London bookmakers? Why not ask the Guild of Togolese Sorcerers instead?
Why not, they have unwittingly become more reliable than the majority of american pollsters after all.
"The conquest of Algeria was a huge series of crimes against humanity (awful... but few, few really know about it, In France and in Algeria too) but putting all this stuff on the political scene is pure foolishness." Hmmm, I am not sure. "Les colonnes sanglantes" in Senegal and even the conquest of Algeria were brutal and bloody. Might qualify as war crimes, but as it was not a policy, these were not genocides. A genocide is a notion invented in 1945 to named the impossible to name, the industrial scale and planning of the final solution. To equal the "colonised" to the "genocided" is stupid.
The problem, imo, is every one wants to be victim of a genocide, and some were.
More stupid from him was the "je vous ai compris"... Every French knowing a bit of his history just cringed at this... The biggest ever betrayal in recent history... Necessary, but still...
Err, excepted perhaps the refusal to implement the NO vote to the European Constitution...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Genocide? Who said that? Macron?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
The first military reports about deep Algeria noted a school in every village and a quite high litteracy rate among adult males (not so different from the litteracy rates in western europe at that time). One of the first policies applied by the Kingdom of France was to have the schools closed. Nasty.
But I never heard anyone talking about genocide.
No I'm not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Figured I kinda missed you lot too much so I'm in again
"Genocide? Who said that? Macron?" Might be wrong but "Crimes against Humanity" was coined to describe in Judicial Term the Extermination campaign of the entire Jews (and Tziganes) communities, so a genocide.
"The first military reports about deep Algeria noted a school in every village and a quite high litteracy rate among adult males" This is interesting: Do you have a reference for this (book not internet)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
First the UK exited the EU, then Trump won elections in America. Now Fragony is back and Brenus learnt to use the Reply button. Where is the world going? What's next? Putin will stop being a fascist?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Oh, thank God. I was too hasty. Some things do remain the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
And what? Since the term was not coined at that times, does it mean there was no Armenian or Herero genocide?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
We can debate about the quasi-genocidal aspects of french conquest of Algeria, but it's a matter for historians, not a topic to be thrown on today's french electoral arena. Uselessly poisonous in the sad ignorance everyone likes to keep on that issue.
Benjamin Stora ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Stora ) on France Culture one year ago, can't say better. I trust the man enough on the matter. May be able to find about it in my collection of the review "L'Histoire". But it spans 15 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
I thought you was a Geert Wilders fan, my mistake then. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Welcome back.
"Since the term was not coined at that times, does it mean there was no Armenian or Herero genocide?" I do not dispute the term of genocide, I think the term Crime against Humanity was inadequate...
Unfortunately, genocide was a system of conquest. Genghis Khan was good at it.
I discussed at long length about the culture of genocide with friends. South and Central America, Africa (see the Belgian Congo), etc... I was convinced by them that this culture lead to Hitler's final solution. A bit long to develop but that is the idea...
And I agree. It shouldn't be in the actual political debate. The war is over... No need to start it again...
Thx.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Won't deny I like him, Wilders can be incredibly hilarious in a 'what did he just say' kinda way, he can be extremily funny, much to the chagrin of others.
Unfettered warfare consists of:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
- Defeat the opponent in the field.
- Defeat the last strongholds/holdouts.
- Kill or enslave the military-aged males.
- Kill the oldsters.
- Rape the conquered women of child-bearing age and make them nurture the generation that will dominate the territory for you.
Warfare which does not go to this level is a Western conceit.
So now Fillon is not stepping down after being formally placed under investigation, despite having said that he would step down if he were placed under formal investigation. Instead he's decided on a Trump-like "It's all a conspiracy!" line. The BBC news here in England are saying that Le Pen is the main beneficiary of this scandal, but I totally disagree: the danger with a second round where Fillon was opposing Le Pen would be that he's so far to the Right that voters on the Left wouldn't think it worth turning out to vote at all and the usual anti-fascist consensus would crumble... it would be like telling people over here the only way to keep out Paul Nuttall would be to vote for John Redwood. Macron will restore the consensus and win by about 60/40 unless of course, weird shit happens.
Macron has not a chance to built a consensus. He is the guy who add few millions poor in France by his XIX century policy. He is a media construction and might win but building a consensus, no.
Le Pen doesn't dare to move or speak, as each time she said something either stupid either the complete contrary of what she said 2 days before.
Situation is volatile. We shall see...
I will not vote for Macron. I will not vote for any member of the former government... I will not bow to the usual blackmail Le Pen or else.
The Media and political Parties boosted Le Pen, they will deal with the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Bad souvenirs 2002 vintage maybe?
This is how Le Pen might get elected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
But how bad would that be really? Is she a genuine Fascist, or did she just use her father's Fascist party to advance her own political vision?
I think the old party was BNP-style, whilst the party reformed under her is closer to UKIP. A positive change, at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
I will not bow to the usual blackmail Le Pen or else
.........................................................
It took me years to figure out that is how they get you, Turkeys voting for Christmas in the fear it could be even worse.
Indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
What about fighting nazis wherever and whenever you can?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
It is not only the media or the parties that will have to deal with the result, I'm afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
I was in Mongolia at that time, gave my vote to my father. The familly I lived with in the steppe listened to the radio in the morning and suddenly everyone looked at me with very strange eyes. The grandfather came by me, put his hand on my shoulder and said: Le Pen. I had to find a way to tell my father NOT to vote in my name on 2nd round. I'm fine with that and would do the same if it happens again. Voting Chirac has been a trauma for so many, I'm happy (and a bit proud) I did not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
I still have it here...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
The acorn did not fall far from the oak. Front National is a composite party, one can't know, when in power, which one of the multiple factions would prevail. But there are a lot of brutes down there, eager to hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
I won't fight nazis by giving my vote to a thatcherian. Oh and they are not nazis. Not fascists. Nothing like stinkin' foreign ideologies. All french. Frontists, if one must give it a name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilrandir
Cute english expression I don't know yet or just a crude translation of "je les ai encore là"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Translation from French.:laugh4:
Well, we shall see or we won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
I say this to our Americans here often - you are not special. However, that does not make the Front Fascist.Quote:
I won't fight nazis by giving my vote to a thatcherian. Oh and they are not nazis. Not fascists. Nothing like stinkin' foreign ideologies. All french. Frontists, if one must give it a name."?
I'm still quite confident a Night of the Long Knives will take place inside the FN... Looks promising. Even better in the likely case of defeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
Yep, we are all family. Especially right-wing loons are liable to look much alike nevermind the place (burmese buddhist nutters comes to mind), and still thinking THEY are the best ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
About the FN beeing "fascist", yes it is. And Nazi. And Christian Fundamentalist. AND xenophobic gay-friendly. And many things else. As a party, it was built by Jean-Marie Le Pen alone. I don't know if his heiress will be able to keep it standing when her father will pass. Doubtful.
D'oh. Not a good english speaker enough to explain it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
You forgot the Maurassiens, the pure lunatics, GUD and similars, Royalists, anti-semitic, anti-islamists (often go with Christian Fundamentalist, I grant you this), the ones who just want to annoy others etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
It's not Hitler, it's only Putin...Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
A fresh and long story-format feature on Marine Le Pen from the BBC.
Oh, my..... BBC definitely knows how to lick the Noble's arses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking
Oh, they like to do those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristuskhan
It just means she's abstractly interesting.
Nice piece of news from M. Fillon:
http://www.rfi.fr/france/20170317-co...ourgi-le-monde (speak french or google translate...)
Françafrique is not dead!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C...rique.22_today
Having a french-lebanese who is a close "friend" of the Bongo and Sassou - Ngesso families paying for his suits.
Shameless, I say...
I really don't understand why people get so upset about the Front National. Not that there isn't anything questionable about it's roots and a good part of it's voters but they seem pretty decent to me nowadays. They are strongly against EU, good thinking I'd say the EU is getting increasingly totalitarian, more healthy nationalism please.
That is because you are not in contact with the reality of this party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
It is not healthy nationalism as this 2 terms are in contradiction. It is pure greed,racism (so some parts, literally) hatred and stupidity.
Patriotism is one thing, nationalism is another.
Most likely it will come down to Le Pen and Macron. But the question remains - will Fillon back Macron in the second round?
If they propped him up and gave him a nice suit, would Mitterand have a chance of beating the current crop of candidates?
Perhaps, but I would vote on a questionable party if it gets us out of the EU, what else then the FN would there be there for meQuote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Mitterand was talented and would eat today's candidates for breakfast... But it was 35 years ago and the man, being somme great self-seeker, would likely look more like a (talented) Macron nowadays.
Now again Mitterand is a very mixed-up memory for the french left. For me who grew up in a neighbourhood where the Party ruled (i.e: Communist Party, there was never no other one here), his election was a sign of hope. It was only a few months before everyone realised he was a man for the financial powers. I remember that very well, and I was only seven years old at that time.
And there it goes again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_...France_attacks
One more... looks like the man was quite drunk, stoned, and coke'd (to be confirmed).
Then you should probably vote Melenchon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Luc_M%C3%A9lenchon , didn't read the article, anyway!), he is questionable on a whole lot of matters. JeanMarine beeing sure to be on the 2nd round, why not try to bring another pro-Frexit there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony