Tarot Mafia

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Originally Posted by Wisdom

Dya is 100% town. I kinda wanna stick to my Jan v read as well but I've pretty much reset overnight.

Why is Knights and Grr top town?

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Grr is because I've had just so many people tell me Grr is a villager. Knights I made a long post on a bit ago

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- I would be absolutely floored if Knights is a wolf. That end of day was pretty fantastic. Was churning out reads on their own interest (went and checked Vanta, went and checked Cobalt). He also just has his own worldview that he sticks to when disagreed with despite being under pressure. Not appeasing, more confident in a "i think what i think" way. Looks at top wagons near the very end (rask/syn), says hes gonna read them and comes back with a Rask defense and a Syn wolf read. Then votes Syn. Wolf Knights has every opportunity to land on a non-wolf in this spot. Sheep is being pushed. Rask is being pushed. He defends both of those wagons and votes Syn. And he does it with villagery posting along the way.

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I know Bop mentioned them falling off day 2 but they also seemed to just be busy irl and I wont worry unless they fall off today too?


With Jan, I think he's claimed jailkeeper right?
@Jan is that right? Standard jailkeeper now inverted?

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Originally Posted by Gemma

i see everyone set themselves on fire and we're yeeting a claimed vig for some reason

seems fine to me!

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I also kinda feel this a wolf wanting to look tomorrow when rask flips villa? but its 3am so im gonna see how tomorrow me feels

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Well, I actually am a Lover. But I'm not aligned with Rask.

Why did I lie about Rask? Chaos. He was dying, and shouldn't, but what was left. I also wanted to find out whether there would be a bandwagon effect on him. Also, Lovers have been some of my funniest roles.

I think stetter may have been arsoned. What was @Wisdom doing?

@Ender claimed to have targeted stetter N1 with an unspecified power, which needs elaboration.

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@Montmorency I targeted Stett n1 so if she was arsoned it wasn't that night at least

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Originally Posted by ColonelLubriderm

I think we should vote wisdom.

It's kind of weird more people don't think dya-rask could be v-v. Because either side claiming as a wolf makes zero sense. Rask can be a 2 shot vog AND dya can be a one shot vig that only works if no one else targets. It isn't that crazy.

@raskolinkov

if you arent killed consider not shooting dya

and to those who think i might look bad for trying to not kill rask if he is indeed a wolf; i started up the syn and rask wagons at eod on day 1. if they are both wolves im a golden god and jan will be giving my tootsies a rub in postgame

gl godbless

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. also for me later

So if there was two arson kills last night then it had to have been:

n1: Arctic got doused
n2: Stett got doused + Ignite

or

I was roleblocked n2, leading to:

n1: Arctic or Bop got doused
n2: Arctic or Bop or Stett got doused + Ignite

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

where i'm at roughly, tiers not ordered within (also an excuse to use [ glow] tags which are insanely cool)



~lock town (should be 0 wolves)
1. dyachei - vig claim aside just town off d1, but lock for the 'CC' on rask even tho he flipped neut and not wolf, functionally its near the same since the only real possibility was if rask flipped v then their roles were pretty incompatible
11. grr - my most confident read itg mech aside. i think lots of ppl have co-signed this dead/alive/town/wolf and i dont see the need to overthink this
13. insomnia - this high off day 1 mostly, dont think he'd bus syn when rask/sheep are viable wagons, especially when ladd/newc are pushing to resolve v!sheep and knights also has a good amount of v equity that could have been a 3rd counter. doesn't make sense meta wise and the rest of his posting is v good

v likely town (0-1w hopefully)
4. Vanta Black - prety villagery pop ins and feels distinctly different from her champs game. would like to see more out of them but i sorta think she may have been threadspewed v yesterday
9. Jan - vibes, playing towny, believable pr claim, shrug
21. Dolby (formerly C0balt). - idk i just read his posts and think town. if he were vagos i would say he makes good poasts

lean town but less sure? (0-1)
6. Sunbae - some meta stuff and general vibes, he hasn't pinged anything on my radar for how i read him but out of respect for his wolf game i am putting him in this tier cause as iaafr once said i'm "eternally pocketed" (I disagree and think that's a dumb ass read tbh but w/e)
10. gemma - idk going after stett as wolf just doesnt make sense to me but i could see myself being a sucker for this read. feels diff from last game they were a wolf too but low confidence
19. Montmorency - lots of posts around EOD1 and 2 that just make me wonder "why do this as a wolf?" -- they also make me wonder "why do it as a villager?" sometimes too but in general i think they've been good enough
20. Theknightsofneeee - had him in v likely town earlier but the lack of volume and impact yesterday made me drop him down just out of #thefear.

poe -> maybe woof (1-2 wolves)
8. ladd - pushing lots of villagers day 1 and 2 and didn't do anything with syn. he's soft pushed me a bit and a) he's like, almost never misread me and b) even if i dont hold him to the standard of A, there was like, 0 conviction with his push on me yesterday and was pretty limp and then changed his vote over to monty near eod while (i think?) defending rask. if mont is a wolf then its not that bad, but if he's v then he went from villa to villa day 2 after doing that day 1. he's also defended a few players i have wr'd at various points of the game, and i don't see how all those are true unless there's several misclears in my towncore. so either him or I are having a really rough game or he's a woof (or maybe we're both having ~OK games but we dont have the full picture to see that yet, idk!)
12. EnderWiggin - if i take his PR claim at FV then w/e but if i ignore that, i think he has a lot of pairing equity w/ ladd and wisdom. having said that, i do agree w/ ladd re: logic of claims coming out unlikely to have multiple wolves claiming after eachother and i get the feeling he'd coach against that so idt these 3 are like, hardly ever gonna be w/w/w.
14. Wisdom - claim seems out of place in relation to everything else tbh. some good posts day 1 but also some sus posts and day 2 was not great even disregarding the claim.

wolf
18. Maple - probly wolf KP tbh. claimed feedback at EOD. claimed self-resolution. self-resolving player dies, no feedback, fun

i know my bottom 4 poe is not w/w/w/w, or at least, its extremely unlikely, which means im misclearing at least 1 player in my lean towns so id like to focus discussion/challenges on my worldview around those 7 players today (with a preference for the ones in the lean town section but ill take what i can get)

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I'd like to talk most in depth with you atm about Ladd, Insomnia, and Gemma

If you could read my longer post about the three from eod1 in the am and get back to me please? In as much detail as possible. Just because I am currently leaning Laddv/one or both of Insom/GemmaW does not mean I'm confident in it. Could be backwards! Could all be town! I think my Ladd points are pretty good though?

Also Benneh, elaborate on threadspewed v for Vanta please?

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Grr is because I've had just so many people tell me Grr is a villager. Knights I made a long post on a bit ago



I know Bop mentioned them falling off day 2 but they also seemed to just be busy irl and I wont worry unless they fall off today too?


With Jan, I think he's claimed jailkeeper right?
@Jan is that right? Standard jailkeeper now inverted?

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The short time I spent in thread before leaving yesterday I thought grr was a bit wolfy tbh

I'll see if I can find your post later

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Originally Posted by theknightsofneeee

there was some interaction with wisdom/syn that I thought was clearing for wisdom but I completely don't remember what it is atm

other than that I think wisdom is = rand

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@theknightsofneeee can you find this for me when you get the chance?

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Originally Posted by Wisdom

The short time I spent in thread before leaving yesterday I thought grr was a bit wolfy tbh

I'll see if I can find your post later

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Could you elaborate on the grrr read?

Oh no im getting invested :clown:

Reread the post counterclaim: Don't think it told me much new.

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Originally Posted by didistetter

if dya has weird stipulations and maple has weird stipulations and jan has weird stipulations maybe wisdom and rask are just evil idfk
@nebjiamn ifk why file did that im sorry ;-;

rest of posts are for if something crazy happens.

rask saying he shot me in that recent "softing" psot is a rather unconvincing typo

ill check progressions for myself tho

https://i.imgur.com/nsfQ4S3.png

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for me

Dya, Jan, Knights, Grr:

Can I get your thoughts on Benneh, Ladd, and Vanta please?

Ok I think Ive got a good idea where my heads at but ima just head out and see responses in the am

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Could you elaborate on the grrr read?

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It's mostly a vibe and I haven't checked it properly, but I think he wasn't doing much in with his time in thread at a point where it was very spicy

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Oh no im getting invested :clown:

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Vote: Sunbae

:wowee:

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Originally Posted by ladd

Yo

Starting vacation from today so ill be extremely spotty

Idk what do with monti tunnel, its so incredibky silly and he in general he is out of the loop that i kinda think he is not a wolf but then we are probably doomed

I dont really tgink we are winning

Agree artic was villa kp, he softed last post. He didnt shoot bop nor didi tho so i kindaaaa think he may have killed himself? Like maybe he is desperado or some shit, should prob see if he softed anything

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the shade of calling stett didi after they die xd

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

I would also like people to reread Gemma and give thoughts. I was not a fan of the eod at all.

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i reread them and their tone seems good but they're not doing anything just shitposting a bunch, seems not villagery imo esp for day 3, would yeet tbh

Grr is a mess to ISO but these posts and the ones following for the next two hours feels like Grr is very comfortable in thread and just laying back. Like there's not a lot of actual solving happening here.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by grr

dya i had as gut town all game, not because they were super towny but everything they said i was like "yeah town-dya would say this".

except that one post where i definitely had an out of body experience and i'm irked people still havent told me if its like, a normal take for them or anything because I genuinely don't know.

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Originally Posted by grr

I already said I understand you hate it, that part of it is not what I have an issue with. I am hard pressed to believe that you actually think it raises someones wolf equity. Tell me why. Why do I not find literally ANYTHING else to call wolfy that doesnt irk anyone? Like is that actually your read? that wolf is just being uncharitable to you because wolves are not nice and villagers are nice people or idk.

Do you think wolves just line up at your door and be mean to you so you can have them all nicely lined up? What?

Whatever do ur thing ig it doesnt really matter what I do or say others are gonna solve the game not me rofl.

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Originally Posted by grr

I am not there by choice but because i cant do that much better tho. Idk In my mind everyone here is gonna have better reads than me when I fully try my best so that's just why I think that yaknow. like dolby is a goat, arctic is a goat, inso is a goat, ladd is a goat y'all goats man.

benneh kinda noob but we love him! <3

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Vote: Grr let's see where this goes

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Originally Posted by Gemma

i reread them and their tone seems good but they're not doing anything just shitposting a bunch, seems not villagery imo esp for day 3, would yeet tbh

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we are kindred spirits cause thats how i feel about sunbae

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Originally Posted by Wisdom

I initially thought two of Stett/Bop/Arson were w!Arson kills (would imply they could ignite and douse the same night) but I'm probably just here to screw things up due to flipless.

I'm useless now so might as well claim the rest. I targeted Stett n1 and Bop n2 so if those two got arsoned despite that some major fuckery is going on. Rask being SK and no arsonist existing makes sense.

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oh boy

two people claiming to have visited two dead villagers

what a nightphase

next we'll find out ender visited stett last night

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Originally Posted by Wisdom

Grr is a mess to ISO but these posts and the ones following for the next two hours feels like Grr is very comfortable in thread and just laying back. Like there's not a lot of actual solving happening here.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vote: Grr let's see where this goes

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IGNORE THIS

I was looking at the wrong day (:

Unvote for now but might go back

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Originally Posted by Gemma

oh boy

two people claiming to have visited two dead villagers

what a nightphase

next we'll find out ender visited stett last night

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Fwiw I softed my n1 target d2 while Stett was still alive
Which in hinsight was kinda dumb because wolves could have caught up on it and targeted her today

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Originally Posted by Wisdom

IGNORE THIS

I was looking at the wrong day (:

Unvote for now but might go back

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The point about him not doing much but using a lot of words stands though, but this was not in the context/thread state I thought it was

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Originally Posted by Wisdom

Grr is a mess to ISO but these posts and the ones following for the next two hours feels like Grr is very comfortable in thread and just laying back. Like there's not a lot of actual solving happening here.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vote: Grr let's see where this goes

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https://www.falseknees.com/comics/imgs/351.png

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Originally Posted by grr

I village read this post wisdom but I have never been accused of this as mafia i think. I genuinely think you guys do not know how I wolf. fence sitting is agenda=>keeping ur options open etc. that means i am playing towards my wincon as wolf and everyone who approaches me that way will never read me correctly lol. (i realise that is like, an impossible concept to grasp for people who dont know me cuz it sounds backwards, but im explaining anyway cause i always do that).

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Ah, here we are.

@grr can you explain like I'm 5 what you mean here?

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Originally Posted by theknightsofneeee

i remembered that arctic flipped death and was like 'hmm that sounds an awful like it could be kp'

then i remembered this post (which felt like he was lynching someone who claimed vig when he was vig)

kept looking through his posts and found the other one.


arctic probably shot either bop/didi then, looking through his posts to try and find out, but I doubt it was didi

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there's no way arctic shot any of these 2. im certainly not building my perception on the game based on this

i will take the post you quoted as just him fooling around trying to act non-PR

there is 0 reason for him not to shoot dya or if he would've shot a hard hitter, he'd have 90% shot ladd

the night is incredibly odd but i think the odds are simply really low that he is responsible for any of those kills

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Ok, I think it was you asking why Knights suspects Gemma right after the spooky comment that made me link them. But I can see that's two different things. Will agree they were around a ton at eod. What are your current Gemma thoughts two days later?

So here's the deal: I do have a minor gut fear from day one on you. It was when you were talking about Maple and the words being a meme and having no idea why people were villa reading there. I read that post and my gut ping said "that's Ladd laughing about how easy his partner is getting villa reads for nothing" and then I brushed it off. I still need to reread day two so I'm not locked in but despite that I am currently thinking you have a good chance to be a villager based on eod1. Most notably with how many options other than Syn there were and the fact that you did not either ensure one went over nor get credit for Syn yourself. I do know you're willing to bus and use that credit to get some kills and this was certainty the type of game where nobody would question why you were alive for a while. I also know you are more than willing to power wolf and there were definitely opportunities there. The thing Rask told me repeats in my head: if you were a wolf they'd have been dead.

But I need you to understand that this is a really hard read to make in this situation and I need to be absolutely sure by end of today. Can you tear through this thing with me and help me be absolutely sure? We have so much info we can solve this shit but I need help (im washed! ill be trying today but ugh). Cause I have a feeling getting you right is the key to this game with pressure you've been under and the way the games played out.

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Sure thing, but as i said i am on vacation now so will be mostly spotty phone posts from me (tho i prefer reading to posting at this stage of thr game)

@insomnia arctic explicitrly said death flavour is probably kp, i really really doubt they were not kp goven its a flipless game. Obv they also did not shoot bop nor stett so imo either desperado gone wrong, not active n2 or killed by reflective stuff from manti

i refuse to believe he shot bop or stett

in that case, what kp was he? i think dya is legit here and the most likely case is that rask was a 3p sk of sorts who thought it was safe to claim his shot since he didn't consider a cross kill option

so we have 1-shot vig and whatever arctic was? i guess it's a really odd post to make if you're not KP, but i don't see kp from him n1 or n2

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Originally Posted by insomnia

i refuse to believe he shot bop or stett

in that case, what kp was he? i think dya is legit here and the most likely case is that rask was a 3p sk of sorts who thought it was safe to claim his shot since he didn't consider a cross kill option

so we have 1-shot vig and whatever arctic was? i guess it's a really odd post to make if you're not KP, but i don't see kp from him n1 or n2

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Shrug

We cant only have dya 1 shot vig and in a flipless game arctic would not make the death flavour post if not kp

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Originally Posted by insomnia

i refuse to believe he shot bop or stett

in that case, what kp was he? i think dya is legit here and the most likely case is that rask was a 3p sk of sorts who thought it was safe to claim his shot since he didn't consider a cross kill option

so we have 1-shot vig and whatever arctic was? i guess it's a really odd post to make if you're not KP, but i don't see kp from him n1 or n2

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I could see wolves having a redirect.
The post was clumsy enough for someone to read into it.

ngl, if you won't push for someone or at least give a more concrete path you intend to follow today, i will prob consider you voting a lot more than the previous phases

you want to go maple i assume but there's 3 other wolves. who you looking at?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by insomnia

vvv
grr
stett
arctic

very likely v
colonel lubriderm

very special tier of hoping it's 2 villas but it's kinda hard to stick with this without just straight up flipping them*
gemma
knightsofneeee

gth villa
jan
vanta black
Raskolnikov
enderwiggin
dyachei

null
dolby
wisdom
sunbae
benneh
Montmorency
maple

meh
ladd

*this feeling would dissuade if we keep doing good in terms of wolf flips. if we end up missing a ton, i'd revisit there, but def not for next 2-3 days

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i intend to follow in this list still, but the logistics of who is more likely than the other im still unsure of. im a bit bummed we've lost like... 3 pretty clear villas last night

i haven't played a ton of closed setups. despite me liking to think im pretty proficient in terms of mechs in mashes, flipless is a bit beyond my understanding

i believe dya is for sure a 1-shot vig, most likely village. jan's explanation would at least account for the lack of equal KP on N1 so im tempted to still trust him

a point that is pretty obvious to me that i see as being discussed is that rask can't possibly have been arsonist. there is no world in which he claims the nightkill as arso the next day esp cuz the iron wasn't put on him yet and he did so pretty early iirc? it makes infinitely more sense to me that his kill was truthful and he assumed he wouldn't get cc'd by our villa vig cuz that was his rightful kill to claim and he didn't consider the villa stacked with him. yoloing that kill for cred, especially when he wasn't a wolf so he can defend himself is pretty odd gameplay to me given he's 3p. if he was wolf, maybe it would make some sense, but he wasn't

IF wisdom is legit and jan is also legit, then i guess another world is possible that the wolves are the ones that have an arsonist. arctic couldn't have been arsonist if wisdom is legit cuz why would there be a villa firefighter and a villa arsonist

pretty puzzling, we might be better off just ignoring the mech aspects that aren't confirmed to us lol

i really wanna kill maple today, im not giving him another day. best he can do is post villagery and maybe i change my mind

and im gonna strengthen my trust on knights as a villager due to bop's pretty confident read that he dropped on knights. i guess i should also consider wisdom, but firefighter is such a lame and unconvincing claim as a wolf that im kinda just buying it ngl

I got a ping from @Wisdom

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Originally Posted by Wisdom

Ah, here we are.

@grr can you explain like I'm 5 what you mean here?

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Not sure how this helps you solve me i was just musing. its self-meta. if u care about my meta u kinda need to do your own research anyway so my take doesn't matter. like am i gonna explain to you how i play as a wolf and you're gonna be like "ah that makes sense now I townread you"? I dont think so?

I think it was somewhat in line with what Arctic referenced here:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

guess i'm just gonna use this time to talk about some other things

i don't like wisdom's post about the situation regardless of what rask is (i think dya is town either way imo, claim matches too well with what they've been crumbing previously + no real reason to claim here). it feels like TMI that rask is a wolf here, or even if he isn't the lack of real consideration about what's going on doesn't feel great

i haven't spoken about grr yet today but i want it known that i am +1'ing all of the lock town meta reads on him - he is a much more binary player as a wolf and it would be a lot more obvious. he isn't really capable of replicating the back and forth he's had over his reads and his doubt/paranoia on stuff. i can't describe it very well and these all feel like buzzwords, but he is a pretty idiosyncratic player and the way he's been parsing this game particularly with the frustration over being ignored on the newcomb push + his indignation in interactions with rask today are just from town him. i would not reconsider this read until lylo

insomnia's posts are also just too good, even if ladd is town i don't care i just feel like he's been the only person in the group of "strong players" who's been seriously getting his hands dirty and actually parsing that group, would maybe reconsider like the day before lylo but i doubt it. same applies to stett, she has a particular way of questioning people as town where i can tell she cares about the response and her follow ups have been proof of this

i'm actually less sure on ladd being a wolf now that i think wisdom is probably a wolf which is ironic given the earlier sentiment expressed, but ladd was the first person to call out wisdom's claim as probably fake iirc so it's worth thinking about. i would expect at least one between them though

i was going to say that after colonel's post transcripting the neighborhood chat i would have locked him as town but learning that was all fake kind of gave me whiplash and also scares me a little in terms of implications for how good his wolfgame is knowing he can fake all that. i haven't had many other thoughts on his posts today. i'd re-visit him like.. tomorrow, honestly? maybe the day after

sunbae i am kinda townreading cuz i honestly just believe the unconvincing self-meta wall. like they expected it to be not convincing if they are a wolf. when i'm town i have a habit of doing the same thing and just posting it anyway because i know it's true, and i don't bother so much when i'm a wolf. i also don't really feel like they have an agenda and the restless urge to do something that strong wolf players have tends to be pretty hard to ignore, and that's what he's done this game if he is a wolf. i find it much easier to just be happy about doing nothing when i'm town than when i'm a wolf, most people probably know this feeling too. is this gonna stop you guys killing him later - probably not, and i don't expect it to either, so this one is more of a hero townread that i fully expect you guys to ignore

montmorency actually, uh, yeah still no clue honestly. i find his posting very null. i've seen the arguments about his eod1 seeming uninformed and there seems to be some meta involved which i nodded along to, but i think this may need to be reconsidered if rask is a wolf too

benneh i think kinda falls into a similar place to sunbae for me (quite unhelpful, i know) but i don't really think the way he's playing is super sustainable as a wolf? i know that like, no one is really trying to kill him but going back to the restless urge thing, it seems like if he is a wolf he's perfectly happy about just letting villagers clear each other which is inevitably going to result in his untimely boxing in. dunno. i think he's had fine posts today, i don't agree with the ender push but i think his last push on rask seemed the most grounded thing presented today. i'm running out of people to call a wolf though so uhm i guess he's just a wolf anyway. rip!

think i've more or less spoken about everyone else

i have found knights and gemma distinctly unimpressive today (moreso knights, i still believe gemma is spewed) but if we keep missing killing people who aren't either of these two, the world where all of the wagons on day 1 were wolves is worth considering, because wolves stacking on syn there is like, pretty a pretty reasonable explanation for things. so re-visit them if the above people keep flipping town i guess

but as it stands my poe would probably be

jan (replace with colonel if rask is wolf)
dolby
mont
vanta
benneh
ladd
maple
wisdom
rask

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anyhow here is my answer:

I have a very specific wolfmeta (that i personally characterize as just, pretty -EV for my team most of the time as i tend to be unaware of the ulterior motives that i SHOULD be having or i'm just not on top of it. I bus my teammates when I should be wolfsiding. I shield them when I should be bussing. Obviously I'm not like, completely clueless but its a tendency).

Ig the main thing is that i do not really like wolfing so one of my bigger tendencies is that I tend to overcommit to stuff. Because I just want to get it over with. In turbos I regularly snapvote in lylos as a wolf, because it's faster. I tend to redcheck some random peeps just cuz it accelerates the game. It doesn't always make sense but has certainly cost me wins. I commit to reads harder, because it feels faster.

So, putting myself into a long drawn out struggle to make decisions and documenting this in the thread is probably one of the things I do struggle most with as a wolf. Would I do that in the best wolfgame of my life? probably? Would I be having the best wolfgame in my life in this PL? Probably not? LOL

Hence, your observation "grr is fencesitting" is actually towny for me, when I probably would have made a call as a wolf much earlier. It's just an immediate thought that is sparked in my mind when I read something like that.

I also don't like being called out for stuff as wolf and waffling is something in general i get called out on in every villa game so like. I'm just be less likely to do it. Why say "idk" when i can just say "i think im going this way here" in that instance, btw. this goes especially, when after the flip, and we still assume dyachei to be town, both of these look like villagers with TMI to me. What exactly would I be having trouble with deciding as a wolf here?

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btw wisdom i am also pretty sure you have seen me "not solving" (an accusation you had to me) as a villager. I know aren't good at reading me, but we actually play a lot so this feels so out of the field I am actually more than confused that you don't at least acknowledge that being like this is at least normal for me? (I will also say I don't super accept this as its very superficial. I have been solving. Have I been solving in a helpful way? Probably not. If you want to call me lazily "yeah he ain't insomnia and doesn't have cool comprehensive readslists and he also didn't have walls of quotes" sure. But If you actually read my posts it should be visible I have been trying to discern people's alignments pretty much all game. That's solving.)

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I got a question from @Sunbae, who asked for my reads on ladd, benneh, vanta. wolf, idk, town.

this is without me having thought more about the game yet tbh. if you actually want like, opinions that you think are reliable I gotta disappoint. Can I ask why ask specifically on benneh? I didn't really try to read him and leave it to dya and you (and maybe ladd, or literally anyone else), hence the question. I lean into just calling him a villager, because he's cool and i like him but I also do it, when he is a wolf which is why I havent really been trying that this game lol. Ig all I can say is that benneh is capable of obvtowning and he hasn't done that. Does that make him a wolf? idk. It didn't in the hydra game we played a few years ago where you were the one that looked more... energetic? while he didn't really, if i remember correctly at least, which is honestly one of the reasons I'm kinda squinting at you more. But I have also grasped dyachei seems to trust you more tho. In that case I'd trust that more over my own take.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

Dya, Jan, Knights, Grr:

Can I get your thoughts on Benneh, Ladd, and Vanta please?

---

Benneh prob v, ladd I keep flipflopping on but right now i think w, and vanta is likely newer villager here and having a hard time parsing what looks to be role madness

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

Grr is because I've had just so many people tell me Grr is a villager. Knights I made a long post on a bit ago



I know Bop mentioned them falling off day 2 but they also seemed to just be busy irl and I wont worry unless they fall off today too?


With Jan, I think he's claimed jailkeeper right?
@Jan is that right? Standard jailkeeper now inverted?

---

Yes, I was Jailkeeper going into the game ( protect + block a target).
I got inverted last night and am now a ToS Jailkeeper/Jailor.

You asking me this feels like such a filler question. it is within my last 10 posts and there is no way you didn't read them or are stupid enough to not comprehend them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jan

Yes, I was Jailkeeper going into the game ( protect + block a target).
I got inverted last night and am now a ToS Jailkeeper/Jailor.

You asking me this feels like such a filler question. it is within my last 10 posts and there is no way you didn't read them or are stupid enough to not comprehend them.

---

Sure, of course. That's probably because I was reading day 2 and saw this post

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jan

My role does have an uncommon stipulation as well tbh.

---

and realized during your explanation today of jk stett over newcomb n1 and dya n2 (and your full claim) that you didn't really mention there was a stip during your choices. you just claimed normal jk who is now a different type of jk due to inversion. So I wanted to have you confirm that you were a normal jk.

Now im gonna go back to bed and ponder this some

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

Sure, of course. That's probably because I was reading day 2 and saw this post



and realized during your explanation today of jk stett over newcomb n1 and dya n2 (and your full claim) that you didn't really mention there was a stip during your choices. you just claimed normal jk who is now a different type of jk due to inversion. So I wanted to have you confirm that you were a normal jk.

Now im gonna go back to bed and ponder this some

---

Yes. I tend to not claim info that helps wolves and does not help the village.
It is a bad habbit of mine.

I was a normal jk with a minor twist/downgrade and that downgrade is still there.

sup jan

do u think we're bluhblublughbulmgluhbuhbuhluh for sussing ladd

i own a home of my very own now apparently

whoshamammythunkit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grr

I got a ping from @Wisdom



Not sure how this helps you solve me i was just musing. its self-meta. if u care about my meta u kinda need to do your own research anyway so my take doesn't matter. like am i gonna explain to you how i play as a wolf and you're gonna be like "ah that makes sense now I townread you"? I dont think so?

I think it was somewhat in line with what Arctic referenced here:




anyhow here is my answer:

I have a very specific wolfmeta (that i personally characterize as just, pretty -EV for my team most of the time as i tend to be unaware of the ulterior motives that i SHOULD be having or i'm just not on top of it. I bus my teammates when I should be wolfsiding. I shield them when I should be bussing. Obviously I'm not like, completely clueless but its a tendency).

Ig the main thing is that i do not really like wolfing so one of my bigger tendencies is that I tend to overcommit to stuff. Because I just want to get it over with. In turbos I regularly snapvote in lylos as a wolf, because it's faster. I tend to redcheck some random peeps just cuz it accelerates the game. It doesn't always make sense but has certainly cost me wins. I commit to reads harder, because it feels faster.

So, putting myself into a long drawn out struggle to make decisions and documenting this in the thread is probably one of the things I do struggle most with as a wolf. Would I do that in the best wolfgame of my life? probably? Would I be having the best wolfgame in my life in this PL? Probably not? LOL

Hence, your observation "grr is fencesitting" is actually towny for me, when I probably would have made a call as a wolf much earlier. It's just an immediate thought that is sparked in my mind when I read something like that.

I also don't like being called out for stuff as wolf and waffling is something in general i get called out on in every villa game so like. I'm just be less likely to do it. Why say "idk" when i can just say "i think im going this way here" in that instance, btw. this goes especially, when after the flip, and we still assume dyachei to be town, both of these look like villagers with TMI to me. What exactly would I be having trouble with deciding as a wolf here?

---

btw wisdom i am also pretty sure you have seen me "not solving" (an accusation you had to me) as a villager. I know aren't good at reading me, but we actually play a lot so this feels so out of the field I am actually more than confused that you don't at least acknowledge that being like this is at least normal for me? (I will also say I don't super accept this as its very superficial. I have been solving. Have I been solving in a helpful way? Probably not. If you want to call me lazily "yeah he ain't insomnia and doesn't have cool comprehensive readslists and he also didn't have walls of quotes" sure. But If you actually read my posts it should be visible I have been trying to discern people's alignments pretty much all game. That's solving.)

---

I got a question from @Sunbae, who asked for my reads on ladd, benneh, vanta. wolf, idk, town.

this is without me having thought more about the game yet tbh. if you actually want like, opinions that you think are reliable I gotta disappoint. Can I ask why ask specifically on benneh? I didn't really try to read him and leave it to dya and you (and maybe ladd, or literally anyone else), hence the question. I lean into just calling him a villager, because he's cool and i like him but I also do it, when he is a wolf which is why I havent really been trying that this game lol. Ig all I can say is that benneh is capable of obvtowning and he hasn't done that. Does that make him a wolf? idk. It didn't in the hydra game we played a few years ago where you were the one that looked more... energetic? while he didn't really, if i remember correctly at least, which is honestly one of the reasons I'm kinda squinting at you more. But I have also grasped dyachei seems to trust you more tho. In that case I'd trust that more over my own take.

---

@grr

I think you misunderstood both what I asked for and what I found wolfy. But I read this anyway and a bit more of your ISO and I think you're probably town anyway.

You're being weird tho. We haven't played a normal game in like 3 years, and I couldn’t read you back then, I don't remember your meta at all. You also sussed me for calling you town when you were solvy d1 and now you're sussing me for calling you wolf when you were fencesitting d2, lol. I don't think either of that is AI though, that's probably how you are.

And a hot take but I don't think self meta is wolf indicative amongst familiar players. I usually tell the truth about my perception of my meta when I'm wolfing and when I'm towning and so does most others. It's easy to look up or get outted so people rarely lie about it.

I exist! Kinda.

I just want to say that it's amazing how you can literally label a bunch of hardware with The Exact Location and people will still somehow swap two of them without telling you.

I know Stett is dead but I feel it important to respond to this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by didistetter

@EnderWiggin does your role indicate you should give feedback?

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Yes. It should have.

Or well... It doesn't explicitly say Stett should have got feedback but I find it very hard to believe she wouldn't have.

Which does make me wonder if I got N1 blocked for some reason :/

I'm starting to suspect ladd is a wolf who's pocketing/whiteknighting me tbh, but it's hard to explain why

But when I think that there's 3-4 wolves in 14 players (right?) and that he's alive it's easy to think he's a wolf.

Like, the easiest world is it's like Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte but it's never that easy. Ladd's easy to tinfoil, and then we have Knights and Benneh who I've got no clue on, and Ender who I can't remember a single d2 post from but I read he claimed pr.

Dya's town. Grr's probably town. I still want to think Jan is my D1 Town Clear and won't re-evaluate unless alive end game, if he's town pr he'll just die eventually anyway. And Maple who I don't know what his deal is.

My goal for today is finding 8 villagers, I have 3 right now +2 potential pr's. I'm soon done with work so can put some more work in when I get home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dolby

tbh I still want to kill Wisdom Ender and Maple

I did no work overnight beyond a crackpot idea that Rask and Monty are on a neut team together and that's what prompted Monty's claim but I'm here for wolves, not neuts

---

I mean I'm ~moderately sure Monty is Neut.

Wolf wouldn't do that play and feels weird for a villa.

The question is whether they were a neut we wanna kill or not. Which is much more a shrug question and tbh idc to kill em today at the very least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wisdom

I'm starting to suspect ladd is a wolf who's pocketing/whiteknighting me tbh, but it's hard to explain why

But when I think that there's 3-4 wolves in 14 players (right?) and that he's alive it's easy to think he's a wolf.

Like, the easiest world is it's like Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte but it's never that easy. Ladd's easy to tinfoil, and then we have Knights and Benneh who I've got no clue on, and Ender who I can't remember a single d2 post from but I read he claimed pr.

Dya's town. Grr's probably town. I still want to think Jan is my D1 Town Clear and won't re-evaluate unless alive end game, if he's town pr he'll just die eventually anyway. And Maple who I don't know what his deal is.

My goal for today is finding 8 villagers, I have 3 right now +2 potential pr's. I'm soon done with work so can put some more work in when I get home.

---

Didn't you have a pretty good townread on me from D1?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by insomnia

let me guess

maple is responsible for a part of tonight's massacre

---

"I self resolve" can very easily be code for "I have KP I need to unload before you wagon me" tbh.

Which I should know more and I feel kinda dumb for not having thought of that yesterday when Manti was claiming self-resolving.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wisdom

I'm starting to suspect ladd is a wolf who's pocketing/whiteknighting me tbh, but it's hard to explain why

But when I think that there's 3-4 wolves in 14 players (right?) and that he's alive it's easy to think he's a wolf.

Like, the easiest world is it's like Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte but it's never that easy. Ladd's easy to tinfoil, and then we have Knights and Benneh who I've got no clue on, and Ender who I can't remember a single d2 post from but I read he claimed pr.

Dya's town. Grr's probably town. I still want to think Jan is my D1 Town Clear and won't re-evaluate unless alive end game, if he's town pr he'll just die eventually anyway. And Maple who I don't know what his deal is.

My goal for today is finding 8 villagers, I have 3 right now +2 potential pr's. I'm soon done with work so can put some more work in when I get home.

---

I forgot about Insomnia and Sunbae. Put them in no clue but I know others town reads them.

Gemma seems like the carton "lots of sus little push" wolf from what I've read. She's probably the best slot to solve atm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

"I self resolve" can very easily be code for "I have KP I need to unload before you wagon me" tbh.

Which I should know more and I feel kinda dumb for not having thought of that yesterday when Manti was claiming self-resolving.

---

That was 100% what I thought he was doing tbh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jan

Ah fuck it. I can't be asked to wait.

I was jailkeeper and am now jailkeeper.
which is just very funny.

n1 protected stett (I expected Newcomb would only be targeted if wolves have strongman and stett was the dodgekill)
good chance that I actually got a protection on stett if we look at 3 kills tonight.

n2 protected dya in case they were bluffing about part of their role and are odd night vig).
this does tell us that dya did not do any of the kills inc ase anyone was paranoid for some reason.

---

...

Does Jailkeeper block non-killing actions?

If so (Respectfully) fuck you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Didn't you have a pretty good townread on me from D1?

---

Yeah but no d1 read matters except Jan

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wisdom

Yeah but no d1 read matters except Jan

---

Sure.

But it feels sus for you to go from "I townread Ender pretty hard" to not really making a read on me D2 and then D3 being like "I don't remember their posts so they can go in the sorta sus pile."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jan

Ah fuck it. I can't be asked to wait.

I was jailkeeper and am now jailkeeper.
which is just very funny.

n1 protected stett (I expected Newcomb would only be targeted if wolves have strongman and stett was the dodgekill)
good chance that I actually got a protection on stett if we look at 3 kills tonight.

n2 protected dya in case they were bluffing about part of their role and are odd night vig).
this does tell us that dya did not do any of the kills inc ase anyone was paranoid for some reason.

---

This was my exact reasoning n1

Bop I targeted because he too seemed like a not-factional target since he didn't claim PR (neighbor doesn't count). I was wrong about that one tho, or blocked.

I my target was jk'd n1 and I got rb'd n2 this is my worst pr game ever

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dolby

I expect Wisdom, Ender, and Maple to all come in pushing me and/or Monty

Big question for me for how I view EOD is 1. Is Rask a killing or jester role. I think almost certainly a SK variant. In that case I actually really like Gemma’s EoD. Mafia have probably clocked that Rask is SK by that point and I don’t think that Gemma would be saying that they were saying about the claims then. Same applies to a way lesser extent to Monty. I kind of don’t like Vantas vote on Dya looking at it in retrospect bc like, any town should recognize that Rask looks worse but I also think that Vanta was kinda disconnected from the thread in that moment so it’s probably fine

I think Ender can turn it around but bro is probs wolfing, more at 11

---

What if I push Maple?

And then keep the pushing you for tomorrow.

Gotta savour the good stuff right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Sure.

But it feels sus for you to go from "I townread Ender pretty hard" to not really making a read on me D2 and then D3 being like "I don't remember their posts so they can go in the sorta sus pile."

---

I don't think you had even posted when I ISO'd you yesterday.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Well, I actually am a Lover. But I'm not aligned with Rask.

Why did I lie about Rask? Chaos. He was dying, and shouldn't, but what was left. I also wanted to find out whether there would be a bandwagon effect on him. Also, Lovers have been some of my funniest roles.

I think stetter may have been arsoned. What was @Wisdom doing?

@Ender claimed to have targeted stetter N1 with an unspecified power, which needs elaboration.

---

I definitely would try to claim I did something to the person I doused right before lighting them on fire.

That sounds like a great career move.

/s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by insomnia

nobody claiming any card thus far, to the surprise of no one

---

Tempted to claim my card just to be contrary =P

Wisdom what is your read on Maple? Tbh even though it isn’t sbpc, I honestly feel that your Gemma/Dolby/Vanta/Monte world is kinda just the easiest miselims right now? Like, I think all four slots are town

Sup Ender I’m willing to give you a chance and you’re my lowest priority of my scimreads rn so I’m just gonna leave you to do your thing for probs an hour

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dolby

Wisdom what is your read on Maple? Tbh even though it isn’t sbpc, I honestly feel that your Gemma/Dolby/Vanta/Monte world is kinda just the easiest miselims right now? Like, I think all four slots are town

Sup Ender I’m willing to give you a chance and you’re my lowest priority of my scimreads rn so I’m just gonna leave you to do your thing for probs an hour

---

Thank you for the grace your Excellency.

I shall be sure to make sure my serfs return the tithe within your hour. There shall be not an ear of wheat in my fields.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemma

are we? rask was effectively a misyeet

---

Rask was a villa for wagonomics but hardly a misyeet.

I'd bet on him being a non-townsided neut. Arsonist/SK/something else malignant.

The reason I voted him early on D2 and stuck there (Before the claims) was because he read more like his wolf play than his town play (in that he starts to care more about psoitioning and the reads list was probably the biggest sign of this.

And yes I said nothing much about this yesterday but in my defense my energy was at 0 from just catching up.

If you gave me a choice between a second wolf and Rask the evil Neut, I'd take the second wolf. But Rask the Evil Neut is ~fine.

Because we gotta vote him out at some point.

(That being said I actually think he was truthful about the shot.)

Is there a vote count somewhere?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theknightsofneeee

vote: Jan

---

If it helps, the fact Stett didn't get my power makes me believe Jan's claim ~more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemma

esp when that wolf was syn

tbh d1 wolf yeets are woated

d1 misyeet ftw

---

Ngl I feel bad for Syn. It's like... 3 wolf rands he's been D1'd.

Not that I'm sad for yeeting him as wolf, but still not a fun experience I'm sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maple

Lol

Gave Arctic the card cause I figured he wouldn't die in the night.

Oopsiepoopsie

---

Vote: Maple

My voting finger slipped.

Oopsiepoopsie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dolby

Wisdom what is your read on Maple? Tbh even though it isn’t sbpc, I honestly feel that your Gemma/Dolby/Vanta/Monte world is kinda just the easiest miselims right now? Like, I think all four slots are town

Sup Ender I’m willing to give you a chance and you’re my lowest priority of my scimreads rn so I’m just gonna leave you to do your thing for probs an hour

---

I read a bit of Maple posting, he's probably just a wolf tbh

That post is basically a lolcat lol

I feel like I should probably do a reread of Ladd. I've had him as townish off D1 but ngl feeling like I am seeing an entirely different world to everyone else here.

Ladd townread was built around how he didn't feel like he was actively pushing a worldview. Like contrast to the game as wolf where on D1 he aggressively pushed me and would've flipped me D1 if it wasn't for Pizza and shenanigans around that.

And the game we were w/w where we distanced hard but then at EOD he was hard pushing a villager and helped me vote out Newcomb.

Both of those cases he actively was trying to cultivate a wagon, and here it just didn't feel like he had a solid direction in mind D1.

Maybe this is a stupid read but I liked it.

But it feels like a weak defense when people who have played with him more than I have start talking about how he's matching his wolf meta. And maybe it's a very slim margin but I felt like I have seen some of ladd's wolf play. Maybe lightning struck twice and I'm off base.

Nyeh.

On a different note:

I would be very curious to see what my role would end up with inverted.

@Maple why did you target Arctic of all people? Feels like a clumsy pick if you're town betting your "able to self resolve" on your target, and you're not a clumsy player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dolby

Vote: Wisdom

I think that the inverter is town. Don't really see Jan and Maple as mafia targets (I say this despite Jan's PR claim yesterday, but we're in role madness so w/e)

---

I agree with this ftr.

Esp since the "inverts" have seemed like strict upgrades afaict.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 3kp last night was because Maple got inverted and got a buff where she could give wolves an extra shot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

On a different note:

I would be very curious to see what my role would end up with inverted.

---

Gdi this made me think the same and that got dirty real quick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

I agree with this ftr.

Esp since the "inverts" have seemed like strict upgrades afaict.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 3kp last night was because Maple got inverted and got a buff where she could give wolves an extra shot.

---

Who did he target n1?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

me/sheep for one

knights/monty seems ~likely too (or i'm wrong)

---

Okay but reframe that.

How does it look if you're wolf. :curtain:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wisdom

Who did he target n1?

---

Who?

Inverted N1'd Maple and N2 Jan.

Maple supposedly could only self-target N1 until inverted.

Also he just claimed Arctic was his target, he 1) was town and 2) couldn’t have used a kp if he got one due to death

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Who?

Inverted N1'd Maple and N2 Jan.

Maple supposedly could only self-target N1 until inverted.

---

"Inverter* N1'd Maple and N2 Jan"

EBWOP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Who?

Inverted N1'd Maple and N2 Jan.

Maple supposedly could only self-target N1 until inverted.

---

Did he give himself something then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wisdom

Also he just claimed Arctic was his target, he 1) was town and 2) couldn’t have used a kp if he got one due to death

---

I'm implying Maple lied, yes.

...

Look. I'm just gonna suggest you read Maple's ISO.

Literally everything I'm saying is from the ISO and my conjecture is "Maple lied".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

I'm implying Maple lied, yes.

---

And instead gave a wolf a kp shot?
As town?
Why?