Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

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Originally Posted by Lissa

hiiiii!!!

yeah when you sum it up that way that's like

an appropriate reaction without any context when i think about it lmao

when i made the first two posts i was in the last hour of a mash eod where i was wolfing

then the game ended after we locked in nas and won and i could actually say how insanely relieved i was that i didn't rand wolf again after posting 900 times in four days while being unable to get anywhere near enough sleep (i'm at sub 20 hours since thursday afternoon not like intentionally i just couldn't sleep good) in that game to endgame as wolf poisoner like a week after a like three week long anon wolfgame where i went to and won at f4 from 13:2:1(sk) at sod2 partially because a wolf got modkilled d1

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name a more iconic duo than mafia players and sacrificing their physical/mental/emotional health for the sake of the game

random question but how do u only have 58 posts here when u joined 10 years ago

like thats nearly as long as annika has been alive

anyway i hope u take care of yourself now it's over ^^ these games are chill vibes it's always a good time :D

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Originally Posted by Arctic

random question but how do u only have 58 posts here when u joined 10 years ago

like thats nearly as long as annika has been alive

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lying wolf spotted

Poe is waza/annika/ender

Dya and Rask in holding zone

Arctic/sunbae not towny yet but not w/ annika

ladd, visor, benben, maple, lissa, taffy, pzelda all town

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPiJF7rceiA

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Originally Posted by waza

Vibe

He seems to believe what he’s saying

I think he approaches wolfing the same way I do and he’s not really playing how I would as a wolf

Plus last game here he was a wolf and I remember him noting he was really busy and it came across in a way that he wasn’t happy with what his output was in that game as a result of the business

So I kinda expected him to be all fired up and be ready to snow everyone if he randed wolf here which imo his opening posts didn’t really line up with

Ironically enough his recent posts fit more into that mould but I think they’re towny town posts and not towny wolf posts

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Originally Posted by waza

He also had the freeest layup to just wolf read me by riding the momentum of what everyone else has been doing and I don’t think he would pass that up

Or if he would he would probs try and defend or side with me in a way to get cred or maybe get on my good side

He’s done neither which I think is towny and the way he’s approaching me makes sense since his sr was Stett and I’m assuming doesn’t read me as being partnered with her so it makes sense why town!visor wouldn’t have much to say on me

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I should probably make this post after my next one, but i don't think either of these are particularly reliable. i think you are getting caught up a bit in how you fit into the narrative here and it's clouding your judgement. you don't really know if visor plays the same way as you do as a wolf, nor do you know he would have a burning desire to prove himself if he randed wolf again. he could be dejected from randing wolf yet again in an org game lol, who knows. i think these are unsafe assumptions. and there wasn't really much momentum against you at all - it was just stett, so ya i don't really see it

in fact i guess i may as well just explain it while i'm here rather than my next post, but visor is my biggest suspect atm. i think he navigated a lot of the early discourse in a wolfy/hands off way. i particularly don't like his posts about stett. i don't think he is really trying to address any issues he has with her play and it instead feels like sewing seeds of doubt by egging on discussions waza and benneh had about potentially suspicious things she did, and he just responded by calling it wolfy or whatever. the actual meat felt, not great too - like "her opener felt like lissa's in the anon game where she was as wolf" - okay, sure, i just find that wolves tend to make random comparisons like this more often when in reality it's pretty detached from the circumstances of this game. just feels meh to me. read on annika is fine but comes across in a way that feels like he's trying to look villagery, not really holding this bit against him, it's mainly the stett treatment that i don't like

as for stett herself, i'm not really sure yet, tonally i think this is her town game even though i don't.. really see eye to eye with her rn but i'm willing to let that cook. i do think waza is the most obvious villager itg and that is her biggest push so. uh. yea. i hope she sees the light. if i'm right about that, anyway

ladd posts about stett making me feel stupid

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Originally Posted by Maple

This's been on my mind recently, but I guess there's no better place to talk about this than an Org game! I've honestly felt like I've been in a bit of a rut for ww. It's like, I've had one good village game in the past year, and that's about it. Coming back to the game, I knew I would be a lot worse at it than I was before, but it's hard to get better again. Even in like Bean game I was very successful at being a mediator, bridging gaps between players, pointing out inconsistencies in peoples's reasonings and trying to conclude v/v fights reasonably. But when it came down to the wire Apoc (who i HATE grrrr) was right: i simply did not have enough threadpull (or confidence) to pull the trigger on what I beleived to be right (saving newcomb, and eliminating one of my EVIL girlfriends).

It seems most games that's the issues. I never have confidence in myself and my reads, and while I am able to fairly profiecently work with other people -- either helping other people form reads, or to crunch information in thread -- I either lack the confidence to close things out or I present myself wishy-washily and people don't trust me in the end (such as the case in the Tarot game lylo).

Conversly, I get back into wolfing, and it's easier than ever! I've randed wolf a lot of times this year, and basically every single time I just wash the village in a different stupid way (other than the hydra game but that was hydras so it wasn't my fault). Like in the shots mash on d2 I put every single living wolf on a single line in my reads in the confirmed tier. Every single one! And people just don't punish me. I can lie so easily, convince people to go along with the most rediculous things, manipulate people INTO things and then 3 days later manipulate them OUT. I just don't get it! There's always been desparity between the quality of my v and w game, but the gulf at this point is immense.

So how do I get better at playing village? I cooperate, I mediate, I try to drive up the bar where I can. But I'm obviously missing something.

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I'm not sure I can give you advice, but I can say that I relate to a lot of this

I'm more confident about what I have to do as wolf, and lying about things and manipulating people because when I have all the information it's a lot more obvious what plays will maximise my alignment's chance of winning, what MLs to push for, what stances to take, etc. But as town you don't - you don't know what the best thing to push for is. You don't want to be confident when you are wrong, and you don't want to hedge or get talked out of something when you're right. If you can trust yourself to not be a blithering idiot (which I can - I think you're pretty smart when you aren't messing around :p) then the answer is to just be more confident in yourself and the stances you decide to take. It's better to be confident and wrong than to lose because of apathy whether or not you were right or wrong. In the latter case, as you say, I think wolves can easily control the game even if you are right, either to push against your reads (because you lack confidence) or to get you misvoted because of how wishy washy you were playing. At least that's how I see all this.

Now I might be a bit of a hypocrite and often not act on what I'm saying, as I struggle with the same things, but I believe in what I'm saying here. "Just be more confident" isn't super actionable advice, so maybe it's better if you think about why you aren't confident and try to overcome that mental barrier. I've already brought up the idea that if you are unconfident and right it can be just as damaging as being confidently wrong, depending on the gamestate. So if town EV is what you're worried about, then it's often not a relevant concern. If you're worried about how you come across or the personal consequences of being wrong in a mafia game, then that's something you'll have to battle with yourself, but I can say that at least in this game I think everyone here is a reasonable person and you can rest assured that nobody will hold any misreads against you, so maybe you can experiment a bit with more confidence while you can be sure it won't backfire

I went from saying idk if I can give advice to just giving a bunch, while probably being the least qualified person here to do so lmao. but i hope this was helpful in some way <3

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Originally Posted by Arctic

ladd posts about stett making me feel stupid

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lmfao 204 and 205?

don't feel dumb over that bbg. Ladd's a smart cookie. He's also not saying anything rlly. "why fake reads" "wat.gif" "super weird" "not believable" "seems wolfy" "wtf worthy" isn't really doing anything besides saying "this feels weird and i don't agree wtf is she talking about."

the main grounded thing he says is not liking the confidence in my waza read and thinking i'm making up reasoning.

I haven't reallllly fully explained my waza reasoning b/c its pretty self-centric and i'm still kinda waiting on how he interacts with others. So that's fair imo.

I don't buy that ladd actually thinks 157 is wolfy, that is not a wolfy post. It's me trying not to be a dick and ignore waza but shutting down him trying to assert that i "ought to have him town" off meta. :P

but also the way waza talked to ladd in 224 isn't w/w

so, ladd can cook :3 but don't feel stupid bb cause he ain't correct atm
(yes i hypothetically could be wrong on waza from y'alls POVs but dwbi)

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Originally Posted by annika

were you SRing Waza since the beginning of the game?

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remind me to answer this D2 :flybye:

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Originally Posted by waza

I asked his some questions and his answers were pretty bad lol

(That’s the serious but oversimplified version with a bit of meta as well)

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I honestly dunno how you read Ender. Feels like every game he marches to the beat of his own drum and a lot of it is shitposting. I benefited from it last game I played with him where I was wolfing against him and he got voted out on day 2. But I feel like his shitposting had a different flavor there. Or at least it was accompanied by some form of read that I felt like he believed in. I remember he scumread the guy everyone consensus townread on day 1. I dunno if it's uncharitable to make a comparison like this to this game, cuz there are just. no real reads yet. or a tleast nothing i get the impression he seriously believes in

on a micro level, the only thing that pinged me was the way he spoke about ladd - "i townread ladd, idk what to do about this" i think it was, that last part just seems like smth a wolf says to make it seem like they're conscious of the fact they're townreading someone too early, but a villa would be more.. concerned about the implication of this on their read, like whether or not they should have it, or qualifying how sure they are about it, etc.

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Originally Posted by Maple

ye was skimming this morning and i suppose what had stood out to me the most is that stett didnt wait for us to get online and at laset react to the string before retracting it

she KNOWS i hate the word "difference check" so youd think she'd keep it up long enough for me to come dunk on the fake read to merhaps get a look into my alignment first

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imma be so fr i got kinda impatient and wanted to post but didn't feel able to do much while i was projecting fake reads for reactions lol

not optimal but sometimes a gal get's yappy.

"stett REALLY doesn't want to die d1" is meaningless. I never want to die d1, I never plan on dying D1. I'm just as prideful and egoy as any other maf player and I have zero interest in being mislimmed. If you're working off a mental model of when i was a venge killer marked by wolf leader in a mash, then.... LOL ?

mmmm this isn't really an alignment concerned post i just find it interesting how waza has like the polar opposite approach to me in games lol. i don't like being involved in the narrative and i find it messes up my reads a lot, so i rarely read others based on how they're reading me either even if it does give me an inkling one way or another. i guess it's more pertinent when you're a focal point of discussion, and well i guess i rarely am, but it still gives me whiplash to see so many reads based on how someone is handling one's own slot

I don't rly think it's Stett tbh

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Originally Posted by didistetter

Poe is waza/annika/ender

Dya and Rask in holding zone

Arctic/sunbae not towny yet but not w/ annika

ladd, visor, benben, maple, lissa, taffy, pzelda all town

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPiJF7rceiA

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are you like, hyping yourself up with this vid or wat

a-are you a l-little wolf...

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

vote: Enderwiggin

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I feel like I've seen this movie before.

Also Pzelda is town. You're welcome for this obvious observation.

vote: Enderwiggin

let's get somethin up past one tbh

ender i'd love ur thots on maple, sunbae, waza, and annika :7cowgirl:
@Arctic think of it as either me internalizing the verse from athena or me cheerin on the lil woofies for sport. YMMV

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Originally Posted by Maple

*No mention of Ender*

is that everyone who's posted sofar?

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Ouch.

alright friends I have slept for the better part of eleven and a half hours, taken a nice long hot shower, and eaten some real food that wasn't chips or a larabar eaten in my bed

honestly I have been up for a few hours now and I am already tired again

but I'm ready to play some ww


taffys opener seems decently towny

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Originally Posted by didistetter

for full transparency only one of my reads so far has been genuine. Rn i'm more info gathering. no i won't say which yet need some responses first :3

visor what are ur thoughts on waza and sunbae so far?

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?????

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Originally Posted by didistetter

@nebjiamn @Lissa so am i trippin orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

lmao

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I don't love what waza is doing ya

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Originally Posted by waza

Maybe lol

I normally wouldn’t omgus someone when I’m playing like this but stett really is in the realm of they should know better because I have actually told her in dms that I almost never replicate this approach as a wolf because it just gets me in hot water for absolutely no benefit to what my wolf agenda would be

She also did something she often likes to do as a wolf which is accuse people of tmi’ing her as town, it’s not a lock telll because obviously people can do that as town too and I’ve been flaunting around the idea that I’m just tmi’ing my reads so if someone does accuse me of that then yeah fair enough lmao I brought it upon myself. But still the way she did it didn’t feel too good because it just feels reachy to me and has a lack of attention to detail on stuff that I expect a villager to be able to pick up

Like for example she claims I walked back my read on her because she claims I saw Ben vote her or something, but that can’t be the case because I was the only person who spoke between the time I outed my read and walked back on it. She could have simply asked me why I walked back my read and it would have avoided this to begin with.

This was one of the few reads I was willing to explain anyways so I may as well

So the process goes like this
1. I see stetts opening post, she’s here immediately, seems happy to play the game and tone overall seems fine so I just throw out the tr
2. I read Ben and Annika’s posts and think they’re town too so I then decide to out all 3 of those reads
3. I notice nobody is really present and I’m kinda bored so I decide to look back at my reads to see if I can spot anything wrong, I notice that stett kinda dipped after being here at sod and I know that she is someone who values sod interactions and using that early period of the game to get some reads. When I combine this with the fact that Benny was present too and he’s someone id imagine her to stick around to interact with or solve I then think it’s a bit wolfy she passed up that opportunity and dipped

Caveat : her second string of posts and explanations as to why she didn’t stick around to talk to Ben made sense so I threw back the tr on her

Buttt then the post on taffy+ voting me undid that lol

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interesting

yeah as you describe it her handling of you seems... odd? actually

some of the nuances of the interactions between you are definitely like going over my head a little I think

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Originally Posted by Arctic

I honestly dunno how you read Ender. Feels like every game he marches to the beat of his own drum and a lot of it is shitposting. I benefited from it last game I played with him where I was wolfing against him and he got voted out on day 2. But I feel like his shitposting had a different flavor there. Or at least it was accompanied by some form of read that I felt like he believed in. I remember he scumread the guy everyone consensus townread on day 1. I dunno if it's uncharitable to make a comparison like this to this game, cuz there are just. no real reads yet. or a tleast nothing i get the impression he seriously believes in

on a micro level, the only thing that pinged me was the way he spoke about ladd - "i townread ladd, idk what to do about this" i think it was, that last part just seems like smth a wolf says to make it seem like they're conscious of the fact they're townreading someone too early, but a villa would be more.. concerned about the implication of this on their read, like whether or not they should have it, or qualifying how sure they are about it, etc.

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I wolfread Ladd a lot no matter his alignment.

That was a joke about the fact that I'm townreading him this game, not a serious qualifier in any way.

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Originally Posted by didistetter

Poe is waza/annika/ender

Dya and Rask in holding zone

Arctic/sunbae not towny yet but not w/ annika

ladd, visor, benben, maple, lissa, taffy, pzelda all town

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why is like

me and sunbae not being with annika something worth pointing out here when you aren't even that sure annika is a wolf - she's just poe - and you have like, 7 people in your poe

i'd get it if you were tunneling her or something but in isolation that feels like a weird distinction to make right now, though i'm.. not sure why it would matter for your alignment either

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Originally Posted by didistetter

lmfao 204 and 205?

don't feel dumb over that bbg. Ladd's a smart cookie. He's also not saying anything rlly. "why fake reads" "wat.gif" "super weird" "not believable" "seems wolfy" "wtf worthy" isn't really doing anything besides saying "this feels weird and i don't agree wtf is she talking about."

the main grounded thing he says is not liking the confidence in my waza read and thinking i'm making up reasoning.

I haven't reallllly fully explained my waza reasoning b/c its pretty self-centric and i'm still kinda waiting on how he interacts with others. So that's fair imo.

I don't buy that ladd actually thinks 157 is wolfy, that is not a wolfy post. It's me trying not to be a dick and ignore waza but shutting down him trying to assert that i "ought to have him town" off meta. :P

but also the way waza talked to ladd in 224 isn't w/w

so, ladd can cook :3 but don't feel stupid bb cause he ain't correct atm
(yes i hypothetically could be wrong on waza from y'alls POVs but dwbi)




remind me to answer this D2 :flybye:

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idk, i can see some of what he's saying and it ties into why i'm torn on you rn. and i can tell you this because i am not you and thus not biased lol

well do you think he's a wolf then? if you don't buy he believes his post, then what makes you think he is just a wrong villager who we should let cook rather than a wolf pushing you rn? is it just because you don't think he's with waza? again i.. am not sure i like where we're going with these unpairing reads dictating your poe. if you have reason to believe people are wolfy then giving one the benefit of the doubt just because they aren't w/w may end up with some bad results

Also that read on me from Arctic feels at best premature since I realised the game was going at midnight and had one (1) spate of posting.

I'm going to call that ~not a good look and move on with my life.

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Originally Posted by Arctic

snip

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ye i think that's a really big difference. the information disparity between alignments means wolfing is taking the game in aggregate and mapping out the optimal line to an endgame where you win. It's straight forward and you have *most* of the info you need, you just gotta adjust to unexpected stuff like PRs and all that jazz

whereas when youre village you sort of have to do that on a *social* level, eliminating players you dont think you can win with in endgame and trying to figure out who the wolves are based on socials and just general *truthfulness*. There's a lot of unknowns so its a LOT less strategic, and a lot more deductive. Which is hard! I do find that on average my reads are *not that bad*, though nothing crazy or anything.

So I personally have a frankly STAGGERING mount of confidence in my ability to think things through strategically, and a proveable trackrecord of being able to win people over socially, which means I'm just always gonna have the sauce as a wolf. So ye yall are probably right that I basically just need to force myself to have a bit more conviction, which is ANNOYING because that's like saying "yeah you just need to eat healthy, get out into nature, and get some exercise" like bithc i KNOW lol

ty

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Originally Posted by didistetter

imma be so fr i got kinda impatient and wanted to post but didn't feel able to do much while i was projecting fake reads for reactions lol

not optimal but sometimes a gal get's yappy.

"stett REALLY doesn't want to die d1" is meaningless. I never want to die d1, I never plan on dying D1. I'm just as prideful and egoy as any other maf player and I have zero interest in being mislimmed. If you're working off a mental model of when i was a venge killer marked by wolf leader in a mash, then.... LOL ?

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Oh? I'm sort of curious what you're looking for then. Do you think I'm working off the mental model of someone who randed vengeful and not the person who died d1-2 or died (or otherwise) unfulfillingly for the past... mm, I'm not really sure how many games. Whatever the exact number might be. Because what really gets me wondering is what's the point so far? Just messing around for fun, basically?

I'm completely happy to indulge yapping for yapping's sake, of course. The entire chain struck me as performative, except within the model of "wants to have the opportunity to play out a game", a bit of performativeness -- I think -- is permissible.

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Originally Posted by annika

I don't rly think it's Stett tbh

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What got you there bestie? You think your read on her is worth sheeping here?

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Originally Posted by didistetter

vote: Enderwiggin

let's get somethin up past one tbh

ender i'd love ur thots on maple, sunbae, waza, and annika :7cowgirl:
@Arctic think of it as either me internalizing the verse from athena or me cheerin on the lil woofies for sport. YMMV

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Maple is... weirdly spiralling in a way that feels abnormal for previous games. But idk if that's wolf or town so I've decided to ignore it for now and see what happens. Gut probably leaning towards town but it's not based on anything I have conviction in.

Sunbae is bae.

Waza is treating me how I expect him to do as town. We'll see how this grows.

Annika I want to wolfread but also I do that a lot when they're town in Turbos and therefore I'm ignoring my earlygame gut on her.

You I want to wolfread for the scattershot "see what sticks" approach but also you posted an Epic animatic and therefore you deserve to live. :curtain:

Vote: Arctic

Actually lets start here.

it’s interesting to me Ladd and visor have expressed early/initial wolf leans on taffy and that’s been largely not discussed vis a vis lots of other people’s takes on taffy’s initial posting

im not doing anything with that (and I realize I might be one of the people who could have moved that discussion prior to now but c’est la vie and all) but maybe others can talk about their read on taffy’s intro burst

stetts recent posting is kinda rough tonally, particularly to arcy re: ladds posts about her, :/

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Originally Posted by Maple

My style is VERY different! I wear a lot of plaid now :3

I def member you yeah, tho that was foreeeever ago. Your reads itg seem straight forward enough for me in a way taht I like this early.



yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh like it might really just all come down to that. i feel like i could write 5 guides on how to village proficiently, so obviously my fundamentals and general process must be at least *fine*. And when I play with hydras/on teams things generally go fairly well! Which is probably ya know putting two minds together, and having someone to confbias your good reads and sanity check you on stuff.

like in indie mash i think me believing you were the lw and that you were never, ever gonna actually try to kill me let me post at you in a way that won you over, and if you think about it that's sort of it's own form of confidence.



lol he is but we are pretty incompatible as far as ww is concerned



grrr you didnt cfd the meowted wolf with me lissa and juls

and you were WRONG on MECH (wolf siding is probably putting it too strongly, but you were counter to a lot of the worldbuilding i was doing + your handling of the claims + adven d2 made it hard to v read you, except for the fact that you were just so insanely pure socially)

And ye that's the question I suppose. I think it might have to do with putting it all together. I like my socials. I don't play to get v read, really, and I think that's okay because people usually come around on me when I need to clutch up. When the mid-late game hits, I'm quite good at worldbuilding and I can generally divine what wolfchat is thinking better than most players. Plus, I'm one of the few people who actually have >rand thoughts looking at vote counts.

I think a major issue for me is getting into things in the early game. I like having a LOT of information to work with, and I like having had realtime with people to sort things out. Ya know, send someone a paragraph, see how they respond, continue the convo, etc. I think something like "be more like newcomb" is an overly lofty goal, generally speaking, but he has a way with things, of drawing connections between things and really getting a good look at what people are thinking or what their motivations might be, and he does it quickly. I feel like that's a big part of why he does so well on D1s. It's not really emulateble.

It's funny, I had a convo w/ tess about like... ways to force people to give better more logical reads? Like, if someone says a statement confidently, you need to figure out why, and see if they can refute counterarguments or if they're just contradicting you or counterarguging you on a basic, non-logical level. I've been able to integrate that into my wolf play, but im not 100p sure how to intigrate it with my other social tools as v. But I think that that'd be a big starting point.



ANYWAY all that aside, back to the game. This seems like an odd question to me. I'm weighing if it's an artifact of your *relative* newness or what. But I'll just see what ladd things about it for now :hide:



oh hi didnt know you were here hiiiiii

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wazaaaaa what useless fluff task do you think i should do? point me at a player and i'll hound em

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Ooo take your pick between sunbae lissa taffy or arctic

These are probs the players I’d want more info on

Why’d you specifically ask me this btw? (I’m glad you did, just curious lol)

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Originally Posted by Arctic

well do you think he's a wolf then? if you don't buy he believes his post, then what makes you think he is just a wrong villager who we should let cook rather than a wolf pushing you rn? is it just because you don't think he's with waza? again i.. am not sure i like where we're going with these unpairing reads dictating your poe. if you have reason to believe people are wolfy then giving one the benefit of the doubt just because they aren't w/w may end up with some bad results

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unless I vastly misread the situation he isn't pushing me rn.

Also i misread ladd p bad last time we played, so letting him breathe seems better. I can understand most of the bolded stuff he picked out in the multiquote, so one less genuine post doesn't bother me much.


my poe is 3 people and 2 zero posters.

thats... pretty bare bones.

Also i think you're town now, but if annika is town sunbae can be a wolf :pokemon: If you don't like the unpairing reads or w/e then fine, ignore my poe.

My ordered townreads are:
Lissa
nebjiamn
pzelda

Arctic
Visor
Taffy

Ladd
Maple

if that clears it up at all shruge

https://i.imgur.com/tCEM7Ij.jpeg

Ender is a villager.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

bro how does this dinosaur ass website have a fucking EBAY tag but you cant IMG= make it make sense

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

it’s interesting to me Ladd and visor have expressed early/initial wolf leans on taffy and that’s been largely not discussed vis a vis lots of other people’s takes on taffy’s initial posting

im not doing anything with that (and I realize I might be one of the people who could have moved that discussion prior to now but c’est la vie and all) but maybe others can talk about their read on taffy’s intro burst

stetts recent posting is kinda rough tonally, particularly to arcy re: ladds posts about her, :/

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I mostly ignored it because I want to see more and I feel Taffy gets elimmed as town very easily over silly things.

Stetts town locking it in

We need to get a wagon that’s not me or Stett or ender if we want any hopes of not giving wolves freelo for the first couple of days

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Originally Posted by didistetter

to be clear idk what this "dip reason" means cause idt i said anything lol but i posted and then went to go get dinner

i didn't like.. intentionally dodge anyone and wasn't avoiding convo

i just wanted the first post but also to eat :damnmate:

take that at fv indeed.

Waza i asked people who i thought were town. I'll care what ladd has to say about you once i have a read on ladd.

also we've literally never DMd about your wolfing style so im confused what ur talking about lmao. I said once in a turbo that you're more trolly as town, and you affirmed that. That's like... the extent we've discussed your meta.



i have to fight tooth and nail for trs as a wolf lolwut. People almost never tr me. I can't tell if like.... this is a genuine perception of me off turbos or something but it kinda feels like you're just sayin stuff.


not relevent to waza, but p#127 says exactly nothing, which is funny

---

yeah that part was like

confusing to me

we've talked about how like you have a hard time wolfing because of your towngame

idk that waza post just made me feel like I'm fundamentally not like processing the entire interaction properly and am missing something

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Sunbae can be my bae for now.

---

I almost think this is like, pockety?

like... obviously ender doesn't really have the context either. but not saying anything about it himself and just directly going to agreeing with sunbae about it kinda feels fake

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by didistetter

my only actual tr was lissa, i was just trying to throw some stuff out for content.

i also dont think maple/annika is a diff check.

ben, i was kinda struggling to process your approach and tone a lil but as i was thinking through annika's posts and the waza interactions your q that i pointed out to taffy kinda scratched a towny spot for me, so i flipped you back to probs town

i think annika and waza both have weird stuff but aren't paired
i think lissa and taffy are towny, and i liked taffy's process towards the sunbae poking
i think ben is proooooobs town but that's partially built on my waza sl and unalignment and whatnot. probs wont be able to firm a read till he has the chance to actually push stuff

that's it

---

I think that annika post re: maple is actually a bit less villagery if maple wolf fwiw.

Pretty thin regardless but.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waza

Stetts town locking it in

We need to get a wagon that’s not me or Stett or ender if we want any hopes of not giving wolves freelo for the first couple of days

---

Join me on Artuwuic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lissa

I almost think this is like, pockety?

like... obviously ender doesn't really have the context either. but not saying anything about it himself and just directly going to agreeing with sunbae about it kinda feels fake

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Bae is bae. I don't make the rules.

(Ssssh I'm trying to pocket em.)

---

Yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arctic

mmmm this isn't really an alignment concerned post i just find it interesting how waza has like the polar opposite approach to me in games lol. i don't like being involved in the narrative and i find it messes up my reads a lot, so i rarely read others based on how they're reading me either even if it does give me an inkling one way or another. i guess it's more pertinent when you're a focal point of discussion, and well i guess i rarely am, but it still gives me whiplash to see so many reads based on how someone is handling one's own slot

---

I use what’s given to me lol

Funnily enough someone made this exact post you did not long ago except replace how people are reading me with meta instead, and then another game replace that but with w/w and pairing interactions. D1s are scarce for info so I work with what I got, most people didn’t post much so what I’m left to use is how people are handling me and vibe reads mixed with meta

The longer the game goes the more diverse my reads get usually

Also I almost think that Lissa post is like, wolfy?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Also that read on me from Arctic feels at best premature since I realised the game was going at midnight and had one (1) spate of posting.

I'm going to call that ~not a good look and move on with my life.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Vote: Arctic

Actually lets start here.

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if i had a nickel... lmao

but yea. i knew it was uncharitable since u hadn't found anything u believed in yet and i said as such, which is why i'm not super onto your case rn. if this is the one you're gonna choose to believe in then it's not gonna help me much either, though, lol. that post was more of a "idk how to read ender and if i reached maaaybe this is wolfy" but im not gung ho about killing you particularly (i'll just let it happen when you get voted at eod :3)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Join me on Artuwuic

---

That post is mostly for others not for me, I’m committed to bussing rask today lol

I do have Arctic related thoughts but I wanna sit down and properly digest his walls and then respond properly to them before I decide what I’m doing with Arctic

Also @waza you have 4 posts remaining with a little less than 24 hours be careful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arctic

if i had a nickel... lmao

but yea. i knew it was uncharitable since u hadn't found anything u believed in yet and i said as such, which is why i'm not super onto your case rn. if this is the one you're gonna choose to believe in then it's not gonna help me much either, though, lol. that post was more of a "idk how to read ender and if i reached maaaybe this is wolfy" but im not gung ho about killing you particularly (i'll just let it happen when you get voted at eod :3)

---

It's okay at least I'm not mixing you up with Vulgard this time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by annika

I don't rly think it's Stett tbh

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who do you think it is then :o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maple

Oh? I'm sort of curious what you're looking for then. Do you think I'm working off the mental model of someone who randed vengeful and not the person who died d1-2 or died (or otherwise) unfulfillingly for the past... mm, I'm not really sure how many games. Whatever the exact number might be. Because what really gets me wondering is what's the point so far? Just messing around for fun, basically?

I'm completely happy to indulge yapping for yapping's sake, of course. The entire chain struck me as performative, except within the model of "wants to have the opportunity to play out a game", a bit of performativeness -- I think -- is permissible.

---

hm.

I'm not just messing around for fun.
I'm also not yapping for yapping's sake.

This feels a little bit overly dismissive.

You said "i really don't want to die d1." that's useless to me b/c i never die d1. It's not something I need to want, b/c it doesn't happen.
The phrasing on that q to annika is kinda funky.


@ ben I read 209 and 210 but i don't really agree that taffy felt narratey. I'm considering cracking into a w!taffy scumrand to compare but ehhhhhh booo meta

115 116 idk this rlly isnt what id frame as wolfy commentary posting. It feels like taffy has underlying process

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

maybe

to me, the way the she approached the start of the game was very much like brute forcing an entrance

actually reminds me of how lissa entered in the anon game where initially i thought it was wolfy (and then i got railroaded and went way off base lol)

---

I feel like that's just kinda how stett enters games though?

(also funny/weird and extremely tangential but getting a bunch of free townreads at the start of the mash that I realized were basically because normally I come into the thread like several hours after sod and post like it's sod and I didn't there because I spent an hour posting at sod was kinda like... it really made me want to alter my approach to start of games lol. just in general I've been thinking about like how to start actually getting nightkilled as a villager too and just generally my approach to earlygame as well as some other aspects of villaging. and idk how to do it regularly cause the mash problem is I kinda NEED that sod-y posting to get into the flow of the game but getting early townreads like that was soooo nice??)

(also I think it was basically impossible for you to ever find me mid d1-d3 the way that game played out with you getting railroaded for bad reasons, it made it insanely easy for me to post good about it because it was all real thoughts lol)


visor seems villagery

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Visor

this is a pure bad take (tm)

but annikas read on wazas flip was villagery uncritical

i think normally i'd tend to just say that its kind of a bad (maybe almost tmi spewing) village read from a wolf but i think i have come around to it being too unconcerned and blatant, which can be like a lazy wolf kind of read to make, but i don't really get those vibes from someone who bothers to post links to post numbers

i am not explaining this nearly as well as I wouldve liked, but i just think that while that kind of read is normally a lazy wolfread, i think given how they are playing it isn't

---

this read is kind of just like

it's presented in a more village visor sort of way imo

the specific way it meanders a bit and the layers of it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

it’s interesting to me Ladd and visor have expressed early/initial wolf leans on taffy and that’s been largely not discussed vis a vis lots of other people’s takes on taffy’s initial posting

im not doing anything with that (and I realize I might be one of the people who could have moved that discussion prior to now but c’est la vie and all) but maybe others can talk about their read on taffy’s intro burst

stetts recent posting is kinda rough tonally, particularly to arcy re: ladds posts about her, :/

---

my initial impression was "yeah that's just town" because taffy doesn't.. really strike me as the type of player to go after a high influence thread leader as wolf, but ladd cited some meta which suggests otherwise (i think?) so i had to re-visit the actual substance of the takes, and from that i didn't really feel one way or another about her post on you, but i think her post about sunbae was pretty villagery? i agree that i don't reaally think sunbae would care about the 3 hour delay between lissa's posts. i never really verbalized any squinting at sunbae for this but it was something that crossed my mind

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waza

Stetts town locking it in

We need to get a wagon that’s not me or Stett or ender if we want any hopes of not giving wolves freelo for the first couple of days

---

why do you TR Ender o:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arctic

my initial impression was "yeah that's just town" because taffy doesn't.. really strike me as the type of player to go after a high influence thread leader as wolf, but ladd cited some meta which suggests otherwise (i think?) so i had to re-visit the actual substance of the takes, and from that i didn't really feel one way or another about her post on you, but i think her post about sunbae was pretty villagery? i agree that i don't reaally think sunbae would care about the 3 hour delay between lissa's posts. i never really verbalized any squinting at sunbae for this but it was something that crossed my mind

---

I don't have meta but taffy definitely strikes me as someone who would go after a high influence thread leader as a wolf, just from what I know of her like personality.

I think that her entrance was villagery regardless though.

meh i'm really not seeing the visor townreads guys >.<

the post about annika felt like verbalized in a way such that he was trying to get townread and he doesn't have other reads with that same level of depth of thought which i feel lends credence to what i'm saying, and people even recognize that his push on stett didn't feel great which is the main thing i'm suspicious of - not just the detached comparison to lissa's game, but more the way he was sort of sewing the seeds there in a shady way

i think he is the wolfiest person amongst active posters. i feel like ender got a tiny bit towny but i'm not sure

I actually feel like sunbae as a wolf would be more likely if anything to just assume my entrance string of posts had context.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pzelda

So, catching up.
p1: waza v, annika v, benneh (if nebijamm is benneh) might be v, but their activity seems little artificial, little bit like busy work I don't know who Stett is, v reads are basically for throwing v reads in early, visor and lissa not so towny so far
p2: lissa still not very towny imho, they're getting weird free town reads, I like sunbae's entrance - straight to business, probably v
p3 (and p4): friends chatting - I can't take a whole lot from that atm, taffy looks slightly w for their entrance and their lines of questioning stuff, there's some negativity, weird reasons for voting benneh and they were rooting out some of the early v leans of other players. All wolfy tbh, could be w/w with Maple for that bomb inventor comment.
p5: I skipped some long comments from waza, I should return to them and read them properly to see if they hold any water. Stett (didistetter, I understand now) can be villa lean for wanting to eat? The rest of that post is fairly weak and quite defensive tho. Pointing out fair enough probably nai but I also feel like taking that v lean back.
p6: Visor's not towny here, I kind of want to see townreads from him. Most of his stuff is negative. The single townread is ok and I think it makes annika quite likely town for a half-stupid reason. If Visor is wolf he probably is trying to pocket them. If he's town, his reads tended to be good.
p7: Also Annika not townreading Visor for that is a good look.

Villas - Annika, waza, sunbae
Villa leans - Benneh
Nulls - Ender, ladd
Negative vibes - Stett, Visor, Lissa, Maple
Wolf leans - taffy

vote: Totally not Taffy

Ok, I know I haven't provided any explanation for some of these, I might do it later or just answer any questions.

---

I disagree with like the majority of takes in this post but it's villagery.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pzelda

Ok, I'll try.
I know most of you. I even played some Mashes with Lissa and others few years back. I know many of you can be scary wolves and I tend to get paranoid d1. That means I often end up being hedgy and in most of my more recent games I wasn't very active and got chopped d1.
I admit it's a little bit of meta, but I know Visor can push me as a wolf. He always managed to find me when I was a wolf too. So, him trying to pocket me would be a new thing. Also him calling that post villagery for that reason alone would be a stupid move. He could do it for later town cred or he could ignore it or question some of my points as a wolf. Actually I think that would be the most reasonable thing to do from a wolf's point of view. I would either explain them well or I would get lost and he would have an ideal opportunity to call me a wolf.

Btw You're correct. My reads are shallow and I'm trying to make that transparent.

Your powerwolfing. See that might be another shard of meta. I know you're great at wolfing. But I don't really recall your style. I can't really base my takes on your meta. That's where the idea started. But in context of this game it works as well. You've been active and pushing other players. But I can't see the direction you're pushing in - your agenda. You're not exactly pushing a certain player in order to start a wagon on them. There were basically no wolfreads on you to uproot, so that's a difficult part to read. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself well here, but something in your posts is murky and it could be possibly wolfy (like you uprooting Annika townreads with your counter take), but it's not quite there and you're not quite in the position to run the thread. Also, It might be too early for all of this.

So, Sunbae has this masterful entrance and the rest of his posts are all chill vibes, mostly fluffing with others. That's my impression without rereading them at least. There might be more content in them. But I think it's enough. There's a strong first impression Sun needed to share and then they just wanted to hang out. Frankly the newer posts in the thread weren't super ai. nd Sunbae just dialing back gave me a really good gut feel. They didn't feel forced to solve or fabricate more reads.

Ok, I hope this explains my thoughts a little bit.

---

huh who are you on mu? ignore if already answered I'm sure it probably has in the like ten hours since this post lol

I think your thing about visor is like, really villagery here, it's a villagery perspective in the right kind of messy way

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pzelda

Btw is Manti? That would explain their style. Also, I kind of wish not knowing. It might be cool to work without that meta. Maybe it's because Maple started that conversation and Lissa reacted to it without trying to do anything else. All of that might be just two old friends having a good time or Lissa having a lighthearted conversation with her wolfbuddy. Because it's easier to interact like this without the interaction feeling forced. It's a good way to establish interaction w/w. Also you can use it to townlean each other later for a good chat later on.
And Lissa being more wolfy is because of her previous entrance, which on its own is nai, but my take here is that after returning to the thread and finding some actual content, she would be more likely to interact with reads in a meaningful way. Instead she decided to fluff with Maple.

---

you might appreciate having the context that me and maple (who is manti yes) just got out of going deep in a super intense wolfgame together (the one I mentioned to sunbae) and it ended literally yesterday evening

I think benneh is a villager btw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ladd

more likely wolf than villager but it's pretty thin

their push on benneh reminded me a bit of their wolf game where it felt like it was a bit too narrating of what happened vs why it's wolfy and a bit narrow

---

hmm

I definitely think that as a concept tends toward being wolfy, but I didn't get that vibe from her post; lemme look at it again

taking another look it doesn't feel like the like. SUPER wolfy version of what you're describing imo, the narrativeness is more intertwined into the read? kinda?

idk anything about the meta aspect of it though

I do agree about the narrowness, she does have some oddly narrow interpretations of benneh's behavior. I originally townread her for the like semi almost aggro-ness of parts of that benneh read and kinda for the sunbae read but the former is possibly a personality thing I'm calling villagery too easily I guess?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maple

ye was skimming this morning and i suppose what had stood out to me the most is that stett didnt wait for us to get online and at laset react to the string before retracting it

---

yeah I was kind of like

well I still am really confused about the fake reads thing

like.. what?

and she admitted it so fast I don't see what use she thought she was getting out of them yeah.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maple

bruh emoji wre showing up in the preview but they got wiped away

https://i.imgur.com/j4zr0Iy.png


and there was a blush emoji somewhere in there

---

I was kinda wondering about the question marks lol

dumb read alert but I feel like taffy saying specifically that i was annoyed at sod with how interactions were going is interesting and possibly towny language for what i was doing

i think any number of wolves would choose to use less derisive language and instead call me aggressive or agenda'd but annoyed feels like it comes from towny moundset? they felt like my prodding was from a place of annoyance at what waza was doing but if taffy were wolf and knows the alignments of me and a few others and coming up with a fake read, would they choose 'annoyed'?

like lissa just espoused, the ladd and visor reads gave me some pause because i was also concerned i was doing that dumb thing where you give someone credit for pushing you too easily and it becomes a thing but both of them kinda 'a-ha!' agreeing about the narration/narrow mindedness of it kinda rubbe dme the wrong way. and moreso visor than ladd since ladd originated it.

i still think visor is towny for reasons related to what lissa linked a bit earlier in how he shaped his reads though so idk maybe he's right

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maple

This's been on my mind recently, but I guess there's no better place to talk about this than an Org game! I've honestly felt like I've been in a bit of a rut for ww. It's like, I've had one good village game in the past year, and that's about it. Coming back to the game, I knew I would be a lot worse at it than I was before, but it's hard to get better again. Even in like Bean game I was very successful at being a mediator, bridging gaps between players, pointing out inconsistencies in peoples's reasonings and trying to conclude v/v fights reasonably. But when it came down to the wire Apoc (who i HATE grrrr) was right: i simply did not have enough threadpull (or confidence) to pull the trigger on what I beleived to be right (saving newcomb, and eliminating one of my EVIL girlfriends).

It seems most games that's the issues. I never have confidence in myself and my reads, and while I am able to fairly profiecently work with other people -- either helping other people form reads, or to crunch information in thread -- I either lack the confidence to close things out or I present myself wishy-washily and people don't trust me in the end (such as the case in the Tarot game lylo).

Conversly, I get back into wolfing, and it's easier than ever! I've randed wolf a lot of times this year, and basically every single time I just wash the village in a different stupid way (other than the hydra game but that was hydras so it wasn't my fault). Like in the shots mash on d2 I put every single living wolf on a single line in my reads in the confirmed tier. Every single one! And people just don't punish me. I can lie so easily, convince people to go along with the most rediculous things, manipulate people INTO things and then 3 days later manipulate them OUT. I just don't get it! There's always been desparity between the quality of my v and w game, but the gulf at this point is immense.

So how do I get better at playing village? I cooperate, I mediate, I try to drive up the bar where I can. But I'm obviously missing something.

---

you just gotta have that confidence I think

fake it till you make it, or even if you never make it

(says the pot to the kettle)

I've worked on that a lot over the years, but really need to do more I think

I was talking in the mash about how wolves never kill me early anyway (which I mean me being alive within the context of certain ways the game was playing out was very wolfy so it was like a ~reasonable read for them to make anyway but that is a true thing) and it honestly kind of annoyed me when I thought about it, like I want to fix that??

confidence and the benefits of it are definitely so much easier as a wolf lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

dumb read alert but I feel like taffy saying specifically that i was annoyed at sod with how interactions were going is interesting and possibly towny language for what i was doing

i think any number of wolves would choose to use less derisive language and instead call me aggressive or agenda'd but annoyed feels like it comes from towny moundset? they felt like my prodding was from a place of annoyance at what waza was doing but if taffy were wolf and knows the alignments of me and a few others and coming up with a fake read, would they choose 'annoyed'?

like lissa just espoused, the ladd and visor reads gave me some pause because i was also concerned i was doing that dumb thing where you give someone credit for pushing you too easily and it becomes a thing but both of them kinda 'a-ha!' agreeing about the narration/narrow mindedness of it kinda rubbe dme the wrong way. and moreso visor than ladd since ladd originated it.

i still think visor is towny for reasons related to what lissa linked a bit earlier in how he shaped his reads though so idk maybe he's right

---

yeah that's like, a big part of the aggro-ish thing I was talking about re: taffy

by the way, i had a think in my car on the drive home and i'm going to be annoyed but more understanding of waza's play today if we find out he's like, in a neighborhood with a few people up to and including rask, and that's why he chose to play today with the vigilance of a thousand suns against a zero poster while he defends a bunch of other people without any reason while placating to several other people in the thread before he could have any real substantial read on said people at any point

if that's not the case and he's just punting around as whatever he is then ill also be annoyed but less understanding






lissa, thoughts on maple, annika, and arctic? i haven't digested much of any of their recent posts yet but maple seems lost in the deluge of a werewolf existential crisis and i'm sympathetic to it but i wish they had real reads instead (perhaps they do and that is in the parts i need to yet digest)






also had the thought that this game feels like i'm wolf siding so far, and i've kinda attacked any and everyone so far, so that's prob true to some extent, but i also feel like despite the potential wolf siding that i'm potentially probably doing i still feel i'm not the one playing poorly. i wish people would kinda not be lazy (or at least be lazy in the forms of like, visor or ladd are so far)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

by the way, i had a think in my car on the drive home and i'm going to be annoyed but more understanding of waza's play today if we find out he's like, in a neighborhood with a few people up to and including rask, and that's why he chose to play today with the vigilance of a thousand suns against a zero poster while he defends a bunch of other people without any reason while placating to several other people in the thread before he could have any real substantial read on said people at any point

if that's not the case and he's just punting around as whatever he is then ill also be annoyed but less understanding






lissa, thoughts on maple, annika, and arctic? i haven't digested much of any of their recent posts yet but maple seems lost in the deluge of a werewolf existential crisis and i'm sympathetic to it but i wish they had real reads instead (perhaps they do and that is in the parts i need to yet digest)






also had the thought that this game feels like i'm wolf siding so far, and i've kinda attacked any and everyone so far, so that's prob true to some extent, but i also feel like despite the potential wolf siding that i'm potentially probably doing i still feel i'm not the one playing poorly. i wish people would kinda not be lazy (or at least be lazy in the forms of like, visor or ladd are so far)

---

Yeah waza's posting around rask is weird unless he's... exactly in a neighborhood with rask lol you're not wrong

Honestly I have no idea what alignment maple is lol

Really feel like I should have some idea

My heart says town but like

I'm really easily pocketed by the kind of thing she's doing this game ngl

Annika feels like a villager

Arctic idk I'll get back to you I think a lot of his posts are after I've read to yet

Why do you feel like you're wolfsiding so far?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

by the way, i had a think in my car on the drive home and i'm going to be annoyed but more understanding of waza's play today if we find out he's like, in a neighborhood with a few people up to and including rask, and that's why he chose to play today with the vigilance of a thousand suns against a zero poster while he defends a bunch of other people without any reason while placating to several other people in the thread before he could have any real substantial read on said people at any point

if that's not the case and he's just punting around as whatever he is then ill also be annoyed but less understanding






lissa, thoughts on maple, annika, and arctic? i haven't digested much of any of their recent posts yet but maple seems lost in the deluge of a werewolf existential crisis and i'm sympathetic to it but i wish they had real reads instead (perhaps they do and that is in the parts i need to yet digest)






also had the thought that this game feels like i'm wolf siding so far, and i've kinda attacked any and everyone so far, so that's prob true to some extent, but i also feel like despite the potential wolf siding that i'm potentially probably doing i still feel i'm not the one playing poorly. i wish people would kinda not be lazy (or at least be lazy in the forms of like, visor or ladd are so far)

---

If you really want to then I can tryhard ig lol

What sparked this interest in you btw? Iirc in the signups of the game you said you were gonna be slanky, what changed? (It’s a welcome change and if more people were playing like you I probs wouldn’t need to play like the way I’m playing but yeah I’m curious)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fbA_agbrOg

:bow:Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0:bow:
Day 1 - Votes from post 1 through 292

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	EnderWiggin	didistetter (23), nebjiamn (38)
1	didistetter	Visor (24)
1	Raskolnikov	waza (47)
1	Totally not Taffy	pzelda (11)
1	Arctic	EnderWiggin (25)
1	nebjiamn	Totally not Taffy (10)
9	Not Voting	Arctic (19), Lissa (23), Maple (18), Raskolnikov (0), Sunbae (13), Totally not Taffy (10), annika (22), dyachei (0), ladd (12)

Ok since the fella is already at 48/50: i'll try to break down my read so he has something to respond to instead of me just calling him wolf before he caps. It'll take a while tho cause i wanna be thorough.

@nebjiamn

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

how common are millers in org game, and would i hypothetically need to be concerned about false reds in an unspecified setup

@Lissa can you unpack your tr on annika pls

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maple

yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh like it might really just all come down to that. i feel like i could write 5 guides on how to village proficiently, so obviously my fundamentals and general process must be at least *fine*. And when I play with hydras/on teams things generally go fairly well! Which is probably ya know putting two minds together, and having someone to confbias your good reads and sanity check you on stuff.

---

it is indeed so much easier when you have a pseudo mason/s lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arctic

name a more iconic duo than mafia players and sacrificing their physical/mental/emotional health for the sake of the game

random question but how do u only have 58 posts here when u joined 10 years ago

like thats nearly as long as annika has been alive

anyway i hope u take care of yourself now it's over ^^ these games are chill vibes it's always a good time :D

---

I made an account originally to play one game ten years ago; it had oot components

somehow I've never played over here since, maybe in part because for a couple of years I was semi-retired except a couple mashes/occasional invitational a year

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arctic

I honestly dunno how you read Ender. Feels like every game he marches to the beat of his own drum and a lot of it is shitposting. I benefited from it last game I played with him where I was wolfing against him and he got voted out on day 2. But I feel like his shitposting had a different flavor there. Or at least it was accompanied by some form of read that I felt like he believed in. I remember he scumread the guy everyone consensus townread on day 1. I dunno if it's uncharitable to make a comparison like this to this game, cuz there are just. no real reads yet. or a tleast nothing i get the impression he seriously believes in

on a micro level, the only thing that pinged me was the way he spoke about ladd - "i townread ladd, idk what to do about this" i think it was, that last part just seems like smth a wolf says to make it seem like they're conscious of the fact they're townreading someone too early, but a villa would be more.. concerned about the implication of this on their read, like whether or not they should have it, or qualifying how sure they are about it, etc.

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"idk what to do about this" is kind of... just... a weird thing to say about a townread earlyish d1 without more context? what do you mean like what do you think you're supposed to do about it

he did call a post of mine wolfy which is certainly not the most consensus, but he did it after you made this post I guess, and not the most weighty by itself

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Originally Posted by Maple

I'm completely happy to indulge yapping for yapping's sake, of course. The entire chain struck me as performative, except within the model of "wants to have the opportunity to play out a game", a bit of performativeness -- I think -- is permissible.

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Good morning, I'm just catching up before heading to work.
I like this part from Maple. I think he's trying to find a possible villager in didi and that's a good look. I also wonder if he's heading somewhere with his discussion on being a good villager.
Because I disliked that Arctic chose it as one of posts to react to. My first impression of Arctic isn't very good.

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

Maple is... weirdly spiralling in a way that feels abnormal for previous games. But idk if that's wolf or town so I've decided to ignore it for now and see what happens. Gut probably leaning towards town but it's not based on anything I have conviction in.

Sunbae is bae.

Waza is treating me how I expect him to do as town. We'll see how this grows.

Annika I want to wolfread but also I do that a lot when they're town in Turbos and therefore I'm ignoring my earlygame gut on her.

You I want to wolfread for the scattershot "see what sticks" approach but also you posted an Epic animatic and therefore you deserve to live. :curtain:

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I almost wanted to call Ender town before this post, but I would also say this has some w/w potential.

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Originally Posted by waza

Stetts town locking it in

We need to get a wagon that’s not me or Stett or ender if we want any hopes of not giving wolves freelo for the first couple of days

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Who do you wanna lunch? Rask obv doesnt count as long as they are at 0 posts

You are at 3 posts left so feel free to answer later




@annika on why it feels benneh will die n1, its a joke i like to make when he is an obvious villager and present itg (and he is both this game) cause he tends to get got early in those games. Doesnt matter whether he is right rn or not, he is clearly being a positive for the village eheh

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Originally Posted by didistetter

Ok since the fella is already at 48/50: i'll try to break down my read so he has something to respond to instead of me just calling him wolf before he caps. It'll take a while tho cause i wanna be thorough.

@nebjiamn

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

how common are millers in org game, and would i hypothetically need to be concerned about false reds in an unspecified setup

@Lissa can you unpack your tr on annika pls

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Mainly I think the way she interacted with/handled you and waza and your combined dynamic was villagery. Feels like she was trying to parse that collection of posting without any interest in capitalizing on it.

Taffy opened last game as a wolf by going after the 2 most villa read player itg so if people are v reading them for going after benneh - well i wouldnt

Their read on benneh i still dont like tbh

Just my 2 cents tho

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Originally Posted by Lissa

I think benneh is a villager btw.



hmm

I definitely think that as a concept tends toward being wolfy, but I didn't get that vibe from her post; lemme look at it again

taking another look it doesn't feel like the like. SUPER wolfy version of what you're describing imo, the narrativeness is more intertwined into the read? kinda?

idk anything about the meta aspect of it though

I do agree about the narrowness, she does have some oddly narrow interpretations of benneh's behavior. I originally townread her for the like semi almost aggro-ness of parts of that benneh read and kinda for the sunbae read but the former is possibly a personality thing I'm calling villagery too easily I guess?

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I quite like Lissa here for the way she got influenced by ladd's post. It feels like she genuinely realized something.

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Originally Posted by didistetter

Ok since the fella is already at 48/50: i'll try to break down my read so he has something to respond to instead of me just calling him wolf before he caps. It'll take a while tho cause i wanna be thorough.

@nebjiamn

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

how common are millers in org game, and would i hypothetically need to be concerned about false reds in an unspecified setup

@Lissa can you unpack your tr on annika pls

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If you’re doing it specifically so I have something to respond to don’t bother because I’m not going to respond to it, I think ur town and wasting both of our times and I’m not going to further indulge it by responding to your case

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Originally Posted by waza

If you’re doing it specifically so I have something to respond to don’t bother because I’m not going to respond to it, I think ur town and wasting both of our times and I’m not going to further indulge it by responding to your case

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why on earth did you spend one of your last two posts on this

obviously don't respond to this lol

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Originally Posted by ladd

Taffy opened last game as a wolf by going after the 2 most villa read player itg so if people are v reading them for going after benneh - well i wouldnt

Their read on benneh i still dont like tbh

Just my 2 cents tho

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my read is more about like the specifics of HOW she did it but noted

I wouldnt lunch ender

Bit hard to say who id lunch given there is 2 0 posters but the more i think about it the more i dislike taffy's push so lettuce try

vote: totally not taffy

I'm not going to call didistetter an obvious villager because I reserve that phrase for people I have a lot of experience with and I am uber-confident on but I will say that didistetter is my highest villager read and I'm surprised that other people skeptical there

Re: Benneh, I think benneh is only a wolf if I am and, well, I am not so he should be a villager (that is a real read not a joke)

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

I'm not going to call didistetter an obvious villager because I reserve that phrase for people I have a lot of experience with and I am uber-confident on but I will say that didistetter is my highest villager read and I'm surprised that other people skeptical there

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I think on reflection she's actually a fairly strong village read yeah.

Just kinda like... some weird stuff I had to think about, but I don't think it's wolf weird really. Just confused me at first

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Originally Posted by waza

Ooo take your pick between sunbae lissa taffy or arctic

These are probs the players I’d want more info on

Why’d you specifically ask me this btw? (I’m glad you did, just curious lol)

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I don't really have a read on you even though you're saying a lot of words. Honestly, I'm still kinda eepy so I don't expect to be able to realtime enough between now and EoD to really make it worth it, unfortunately. But I was thinking, well, if there's some people waza isnt so sure on maybe I can kick something up and get a read on both of yall. Something like that!

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Originally Posted by didistetter

hm.

I'm not just messing around for fun.
I'm also not yapping for yapping's sake.

This feels a little bit overly dismissive.

You said "i really don't want to die d1." that's useless to me b/c i never die d1. It's not something I need to want, b/c it doesn't happen.
The phrasing on that q to annika is kinda funky.


@ ben I read 209 and 210 but i don't really agree that taffy felt narratey. I'm considering cracking into a w!taffy scumrand to compare but ehhhhhh booo meta

115 116 idk this rlly isnt what id frame as wolfy commentary posting. It feels like taffy has underlying process

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I'm going to become a roleplay gamer so i can start doing things like *tilts head in thought*, *looks at you quizzically*, *hums*.

I don't think we're communicating on the same level so I'm going to drop it.

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Originally Posted by pzelda

Good morning, I'm just catching up before heading to work.
I like this part from Maple. I think he's trying to find a possible villager in didi and that's a good look. I also wonder if he's heading somewhere with his discussion on being a good villager.
Because I disliked that Arctic chose it as one of posts to react to. My first impression of Arctic isn't very good.

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She hates being called "didi" jsyk, her name is usually shortened to "Stett" (please ignore me calling her Didi S. Tutter)

And no, the games here are just chill and it's a perfectly good time for me to get some real input. It's something that's been on my mind with how hard my v games feel and how easy my w games are.

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

lissa, thoughts on maple, annika, and arctic? i haven't digested much of any of their recent posts yet but maple seems lost in the deluge of a werewolf existential crisis and i'm sympathetic to it but i wish they had real reads instead (perhaps they do and that is in the parts i need to yet digest)

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lol ive been trying to be consious of this and HAVE been trying to also post reads and contents alongside my pondering and lamentation just so I'm not unduly disrupting the game.

You're admittedly not missing much though!

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Originally Posted by Lissa

you just gotta have that confidence I think

fake it till you make it, or even if you never make it

(says the pot to the kettle)

I've worked on that a lot over the years, but really need to do more I think

I was talking in the mash about how wolves never kill me early anyway (which I mean me being alive within the context of certain ways the game was playing out was very wolfy so it was like a ~reasonable read for them to make anyway but that is a true thing) and it honestly kind of annoyed me when I thought about it, like I want to fix that??

confidence and the benefits of it are definitely so much easier as a wolf lol



yeah that's like, a big part of the aggro-ish thing I was talking about re: taffy

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ye our talks about those sorts of things come to mind cause atp its similar and it does, for me, simply come down to my play not being respectable enough, on a level.

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

dumb read alert but I feel like taffy saying specifically that i was annoyed at sod with how interactions were going is interesting and possibly towny language for what i was doing

i think any number of wolves would choose to use less derisive language and instead call me aggressive or agenda'd but annoyed feels like it comes from towny moundset? they felt like my prodding was from a place of annoyance at what waza was doing but if taffy were wolf and knows the alignments of me and a few others and coming up with a fake read, would they choose 'annoyed'?

like lissa just espoused, the ladd and visor reads gave me some pause because i was also concerned i was doing that dumb thing where you give someone credit for pushing you too easily and it becomes a thing but both of them kinda 'a-ha!' agreeing about the narration/narrow mindedness of it kinda rubbe dme the wrong way. and moreso visor than ladd since ladd originated it.

i still think visor is towny for reasons related to what lissa linked a bit earlier in how he shaped his reads though so idk maybe he's right

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u say words good im sheeping this (you're right that the read is dumb but fuck it we ball)

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So while rereading the taffy opener looking at that last ben post, i got another look at stett's early posts and honestly? She looks a lot better on reread. In the context of her fucking around to get the ball rolling I think her handling of taffy opener and such looked good esp given what else was going on in the thread at the time.

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Originally Posted by waza

All wolves should be in
Ender v but my weakest v


Rask sunbae maple lissa arctic taffy dya Zelda

Damn this is a longer list than I envisioned before I typed this out lol

Oh well atleast rask is meowted so that’s one less to worry about

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Balls on the table, I'm going to call waza v for SPECIFICALLY this post. His ISO in aggregate is still a PR that gets voted out in endgame.

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Upon review (literally just this post) I'm swinging the pendulum back. Annika wolf. I don't know what bees taste like, but it's on the menu.

okay the first half of this post was written like 3 hours ago or some shit, then i went to go play video games with my fwend, then i came back and started making a post then i went and combined them into one big post so gl reading it

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Originally Posted by Lissa

I think on reflection she's actually a fairly strong village read yeah.

Just kinda like... some weird stuff I had to think about, but I don't think it's wolf weird really. Just confused me at first

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If I said:

my village reads atm are didistetter, neb, pzelda, and ladd

my "i'll leave them be due to people finding them towney" list was waza and lissa

my active concern list was Visor, Maple, annika (but not both maple and annika), and arctic


how similar would our reads be and which ones are we most off on

who's neb

re: arctic, I'm not sure what alignment he is. part of me thinks he'd be a bit more something as a wolf? like I mean he was openly talking about it in the thread with maple earlier w/r/t confidence stuff but that was also like already my vibe about him, that he was a confident wolf. and I'm not seeing confident wolf here lol

but I'm a little sketched out about his visor read. the thing re: comparisons to other games is like a real thing I agree is often wolfy/something wolves do but his collective read feels... reductive? almost cherrypicky? about visor's posting

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Re: Benneh, I think benneh is only a wolf if I am and, well, I am not so he should be a villager (that is a real read not a joke)

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villagery read lol

idk how serious I am about this but like a little bit anyway

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Originally Posted by Maple

ye our talks about those sorts of things come to mind cause atp its similar and it does, for me, simply come down to my play not being respectable enough, on a level.

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yeah I think we have some similar issues with ~effective villaging~ and weirdly like after those last couple wolf games I wonder if I'm just a better wolf than villager now. It's interesting because WAY back in the day I did actually get nightkilled by wolves a lot more at a certain point in time, like I definitely had a string of getting N1ed/N2ed in mashes back in like 2016/2017 or something. and like

afaik my village game is widely recognized as good, people respect my village game/consider me a good villager. Like not a SUPER ELITE villager, but people view me as pretty competent, and don't get me wrong I don't disagree, but like. I can also see to some extent what about my play results in my Not Getting Nightkilled Early, but I'm not like, quite sure how to fix it lol. I've worked over the years on presenting confidence and stuff but something is definitely missing.

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

If I said:

my village reads atm are didistetter, neb, pzelda, and ladd

my "i'll leave them be due to people finding them towney" list was waza and lissa

my active concern list was Visor, Maple, annika (but not both maple and annika), and arctic


how similar would our reads be and which ones are we most off on

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agree, agree, agree, gun to head agree just kinda off thread vibes

agree?

disagree, i d k gth disagree???, disagree, kinda lightly disagree

but as I write this out I'm kinda like uh

surely something's not right here LMAO

I quite look forward to another game of Ender and I never being in the thread at the same time despite just wanting to shoot the shit back and forth trying to pocket or sus each other. Time zones why

just pulled up playerlist to kinda look at the whole picture

rask ?? no posts, ladd maybe v? visor v, stett v, sunbae kinda v?, ben probably v, maple ????? gth v, arctic idk kinda light v, waza v, taffy v, ender ?, annika v, dya ?? no posts, pzelda v

lol

think I gotta go back to the drawing board somewhere in here

Ok cool, so the town part being similar is nice and tbh you disagree with the entirety of my wolf concerns is something I a.) find villagery and b.) could very well mean I'm just in the wrong half of my not bracketed off to the villa list people. Do you have specific wolf reads that differ or just kinda vibes so far

nah, no need for drawing board revisiting yet it's very early still!

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Originally Posted by Lissa

Why do you feel like you're wolfsiding so far?

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i'm not really vibing with anyone's view on the game state so far and even when I do start to lean into a certain realm i regress and hate it. basically a lack of a cohesive feel on the current game state.

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Originally Posted by waza

If you really want to then I can tryhard ig lol

What sparked this interest in you btw? Iirc in the signups of the game you said you were gonna be slanky, what changed? (It’s a welcome change and if more people were playing like you I probs wouldn’t need to play like the way I’m playing but yeah I’m curious)

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no thanks. i don't want anyone to 'try hard', i've just been starving for content but i think we're rolling now and half of this was just a me problem anyway.

nothing changed besides my work schedule for monday and tuesday. had several things cancel (thankfully) and had more time to dedicate to this than i expected.

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Originally Posted by didistetter

Ok since the fella is already at 48/50: i'll try to break down my read so he has something to respond to instead of me just calling him wolf before he caps. It'll take a while tho cause i wanna be thorough.

@nebjiamn

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

how common are millers in org game, and would i hypothetically need to be concerned about false reds in an unspecified setup

@Lissa can you unpack your tr on annika pls

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uh. not common? and i don't really understand why you would ask :wowee:

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

If I said:

my village reads atm are didistetter, neb, pzelda, and ladd

my "i'll leave them be due to people finding them towney" list was waza and lissa

my active concern list was Visor, Maple, annika (but not both maple and annika), and arctic


how similar would our reads be and which ones are we most off on

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where does taffy fall for you? I just re-read their intro and decided to get up and go to my PC and figure out if i really want to stick with my initial read there and after reviewing it with the perspectives of ladd and visor i kinda don't hate it as a landing spot.

re: stett -- tonally she's been quite good aside from a post @ arctic that i really disliked. but actions wise her line here is a bit perplexing. doubly so if she's wolf, so i'm kind of sticking with the idea she's town more often than she's not but I don't really love my position here.

our active concern list is close. i don't think visor is in there for me but c'est la vie. annika is probably the person i'm most concerned with in that list overall.

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

Ok cool, so the town part being similar is nice and tbh you disagree with the entirety of my wolf concerns is something I a.) find villagery and b.) could very well mean I'm just in the wrong half of my not bracketed off to the villa list people. Do you have specific wolf reads that differ or just kinda vibes so far

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well I have come to the realization that I don't actually have any wolf reads

and like

too many v reads for that to like

work

so uh

hm

thread feels really villagery imo

makes me think a wolf hasn't posted yet but that's obv kind of a jank read to make on a number of levels

ladd's thing re: taffy does make me rethink my village read there somewhat

arctic is a weird one

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Originally Posted by Maple

who's neb

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ben

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Originally Posted by Sunbae

nah, no need for drawing board revisiting yet it's very early still!

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yeah it is I just kind of already have too many villagers lmao

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

i'm not really vibing with anyone's view on the game state so far and even when I do start to lean into a certain realm i regress and hate it. basically a lack of a cohesive feel on the current game state.

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hm fair enough ig

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

re: stett -- tonally she's been quite good aside from a post @ arctic that i really disliked. but actions wise her line here is a bit perplexing. doubly so if she's wolf, so i'm kind of sticking with the idea she's town more often than she's not but I don't really love my position here.

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yeah ultimately I think the type of confusing/weird stuff she has done isn't really a kind of weird that makes her a wolf or makes really much of ANY sense for her to actually do as a wolf


it is possible I am giving the waza/stett stuff too much weight re: annika