My guesses are that Reenk was killed by a vigilante as the weapon of their choice was just a sharp object. Camera lying next to him shows that he was likely to be a townie.
Other then that i'm lost. :shame:
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My guesses are that Reenk was killed by a vigilante as the weapon of their choice was just a sharp object. Camera lying next to him shows that he was likely to be a townie.
Other then that i'm lost. :shame:
That I have been killed (by Mafia most likely) means that the second objective was incredibly successful! :2thumbsup: :laugh4:
Really, the tablet I sent down explains everything.
I wish you luck town, I have been with you from the start. :bow:
Why the destruction of the Statue of Artemis?
What could the significance of that be?
We're awash in clues...we shall need to begin removing the dross.
Stories make me sleepy.
Suggestions:
1 of you dig into the statue, any connection to tourists or other history references to think on.
1 of you run through the killings and assess knife/gun etc. methodology (#killers, MO's, vigilantes?) etc.
1 of you cobble up the lists of those voting for murder victims
1 of you think about the grave/burial/corpse desecration references a bit and collect the info on that
Vote: Abstain
School started up again. As such, my time diminishes. Will look at things tomorrow.
I dig into the statue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
Ill do option 3.
Give me 4 hours though
Alright, so what do y'all want to know?
Following four are the murder victims
777Ares777 (Shot to death)
TheFlax (Shot to death)
White_Eyes :D (Shot to death)
Reenk Roink (Killed by a knife)
Voting Round 1
TinCow : 7 (GH, shlin28, Reenk Roink, White_Eyes:D, Tevashzat, FactionHeir, Ignoramus)
Tevashzat : 6 (Quintus.JC, YLC, Sigurd, Yoyoma, TinCow, Seamus Fermanagh)
Reenk Roink : 2 (Jolt, El Diablo)
boudica : 1 (Tiberius of the Drake)
Jolt : 1 (boudica)
White_Eyes:D : 1 (Caius)
Askthepizzaguy : 1 (187Beefyz)
YLC : 1 (CountArach)
Ibn-Khaldun : 1 (woad&fangs)
Lord Winter: 1 (TheFlax)
Caius: 1 (Ibn-Khaldun)
El Diablo: 1 (Chaotix27)
FactionHeir: 1 (glyphz)
Not voted : 4 ('khaan, Rythmic, Askthepizzaguy, Lord Winter)
Voting Round 2
Tevashzat : 8 (Reenk Roink, White_Eyes:D, YLC, Sigurd, Yoyoma1910, Ibn-Khaldun, TheFlax, glyphz)
Reenk Roink: 5 ('khaan, shlin28, Tiberius of the Drake, Tevashzat, Quintus.JC)
Askthepizzaguy: 1 (187Beefyz)
Not voted: 14 (boudica, GH, Jolt, Rythmic, Chaotix27, ATPG, w&f, Lord Winter, CountArach, Caius, El Diablo, FactionHeir, Seamus, Ignoramus)
.................................................................................................... ..................................................................................
Forgive me for double posting (someone save me). But heres what I got so far
-White_Eyes, Reenk on both day and Flax on day 2 has joined the main bandwagonning. Which suggest
the killer hates bandwagoners or just don't know how to play-> WIFOM don't even bother arguing.
-Rythmic, ATPG and Lord winter has not voted in two rounds. Which suggest that ATPG is away. iirc Lord Winter is less active when he has a townie role. But its dangerous to assume so until he is wogged. Rythmic... I don't know where he is off to.
-Round 2 has a lot more people who didn't make it to vote..
-Night 3 had 3 players killed. iirc night 2 had none.. Mafia recruited a few on night 2 perhaps.
-As Night 1 victim, Ares was killed with a gun, original mafia seems to have silencer pistols. Knife killer could be either new comers or vigilante.
- All killers are.. rather funny. I guess thats just Andres adding some flavors in the write up.
- Reenk was voted by Jolt & El Diablo on first day. The two didn't vote him on the second.
- .... Argh. Not much clues yet
Ok, so it seems I was killed by a knife whereas every other kill has occurred with a gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by 187Beefyz
Keep in mind that YLC sent me this OM which I revealed earlier:
At first I didn't really believe him, and thought he was bluffing, but the different style of kill with the issue of the Mafia actually wanting to kill me lends credence to a theory of me being murdered by YLC.Quote:
Originally Posted by YLC
A good fallback plan is for you go ahead and lynch him tonight if your other leads do not show up. Perhaps give him a chance to explain. Maybe he is a poorly guided vigilante who could still serve some use to the town.
I am guided by my own conscience, and I do what I think is best, nothing more. Maybe, if you had tried to explain things in a more concise way, certain actions need not have been taken. Whether you were pro-town or not does not matter, your Loki behavior only made you as good as a mafioso.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
Also, it is "lynch him today", lynches do not take place during the night :laugh4:
YLC seems to be on the towns side. At worst SK. Probably a Vigilante
I'm not going to vote for YLC this phase
On my defence, I'm never on weekends, Thus why I didn't vote for lynch. Also, it basically practically proves I'm not from the Mafia (Since most Mafia guys decided to kill this night).Quote:
Originally Posted by 187Beefyz
Anyways, can we lynch the athletic guy? He gets on my nerves. >_>
EDIT: As further proof, if you check the MTW Game, I also didn't participate there. :P
Ok I finally made it here to vote. I was not here all during the night phase, there may have been fewer kills because of that. And this is a very good thing.
Look, guys, I know either you will lynch me, or mafia will kill me when you don't. I'm as good as toast so I won't bother defending myself. What I am asking is that you let me live, long enough to prove that it isn't me that's killing at night. My predictable attendance on the internet absolutely confirms that I cannot kill at night, which means that mafia will be FORCED to kill me. I think this is a good thing, as I'll be one of the few confirmed innocents.
The mafia may choose to keep me alive, as well, sort of insinuating that I'm guilty of something. But it won't be a convincing ploy if the kill rate goes up. In order to imply I am guilty, they must refrain from killing at their full potential, which is also good for town. The sooner they kill me, the better.
So, they will leave a confirmed innocent person alive, or kill me. In any case, you don't have to lynch me, and they will waste a turn killing me.
It's also possible I have a role besides one of the two mafia (I don't), so they have additional reasons to kill me, as do you. I suggest humbly that you employ the strategy of forcing them to kill me, simply to use me as a human shield. I am grateful to die for town.
If they leave me alive, you can choose to investigate me randomly, which again forces them to kill me.
If I am missing something from this proposed strategy, feel free to tell me. And if you really feel like defending me, go ahead, you may stop another kill. But I also know this entire post, and my behavior thusfar, can and will be interpreted by you as a WIFOM strategy to live. I promise you, I will die before the end of the game, and I can basically guarantee that I won't be here at night, thus making me murder bait.
Sorry people, but this has been an absolutely hectic week at work (We are getting an evaluation by the regional second in command on Saturday, hence I am busy helping to clean the store) and I've had other social things going on at the same time. I haven't had a chance to keep up with the game - though I will as soon as I get a chance.
As such Vote: Abstain
Whether I live or die, I will do my best on all of these. This is where I am actually useful to you guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...96#post2099096 (1/4)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolt
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...77#post2098677 (1/3)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...75#post2094075 (12/28)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...86#post2093686 (12/27)
Explain how I've just proven you were online, not only online, but posting in this forum, on both days of two consecutive weekends.
Why, if you are a townie, would you post such a blatant lie?
Sorry for not contributing much, caught a nasty cold.
For the time being: vote:abstain until I find time to read the thread.
Lord Winter is not mafia. He was away for all of last week. While he was away, there was a triple night kill. This almost certainly accounts for all starting mafia roles. While he could be recruitable or otherwise scumtastic in some other fashion, it would be a waste of time to focus on him now.Quote:
Originally Posted by 187Beefyz
Unlikely. In the first game they first had to investigate to find the person, then they had to recruit them. This takes time and it assumes that the mafia were spot in in their first night investigation. This is not probable. It is far more likely that the mafia families chose to kill at their full strength for the first time. In the first game, there were 3 starting mafioso, 2 in one family, and 1 in another. These three kills would account for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by 187Beefyz
Or the 1 man mafia family.Quote:
Originally Posted by 187Beefyz
That's fine, there's not usually that much by this point. My advice: start hounding the veteran players who are lurking. GH, Seamus, Sigurd, Rythmic, seireikhaan, and FactionHeir should all be much more active than this. Start moving to lynch them to get them to speak up in their own defense. The game will be better off with them vocal, regardless of whether they are mafia or town.Quote:
Originally Posted by 187Beefyz
Taking the list that TinCow proposed..
.. I Vote: seireikhaanQuote:
My advice: start hounding the veteran players who are lurking. GH, Seamus, Sigurd, Rythmic, seireikhaan, and FactionHeir
Vote: Rythmic
Until I can come up with someone better. He does lurk when he's mafia. Not sure about his townie credentials but I don't particularly agree with a lurking townie approach. Allows the lurker mafia to blend in.
I still want an explain from Jolt regarding previous post I made.
Being online is about the only thing I CAN do when I have a nasty cold (maybe man-flu IS different after all :laugh4:) So I'll take the ghost of TinCows' advice and "vote-a-vet" in order to bring them out of lurkdom.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
Vote: Factionheir (until he has contributed further about who I should vote for instead)
In previous games I have played in, Rythmic has been an extremely useful townie. He and Seamus have consistently provided some of the best analysis of the evidence. I don't know what he is usually like, since I've still only played a handful of games with him, but in my experience Rythmic is very useful when he is active.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
That said, some of the people I listed above could be silent simply because they haven't been on the forums. I am staying away from checking profiles because Mods have the ability to see extra info in profiles that is unfair to know for mafia games (such as seeing people who are invisible). However, the same is not true for most of you. If someone could report back on the last date of activity for all living players in this game, it would be very useful. If a profile says nothing, it's because the person is marked down as invisible.
Rythmic is an excellent player. That's why his inactivity/lurkishness is a slap in the face of townies like me.
:laugh2:
A bit over the top? Tone it down, pizza lord. Right, right.
Still anxiously awaiting Jolt's response... because I'm bursting in my pants to see the explanation :grin:
Lurker report. Activity report not done yet. If we start accusing those at the bottom, eventually the mafia scum will float to the top of our little pond. In the meantime, we can analyze the posting patterns, behavior, and activity of the people at the top of the list.Quote:
User Name / Number Posts
Askthepizzaguy 39
YLC 34
777Ares777 32
TinCow 31
Reenk Roink 29
Andres 16
Yoyoma1910 14
GeneralHankerchief 13
CountArach 13
187Beefyz 12
White_eyes:D 12
shlin28 10
Quintus.JC 10
TevashSzat 9
Ibn-Khaldun 8
El Diablo 7
boudica 7
glyphz 6
Jolt 6
Caius 5
Tiberius of the Drake 5
seireikhaan 4
Sigurd 4
Seamus Fermanagh 4
FactionHeir 3
TheFlax 3
Lord Winter 2
Chaotix27 2
woad&fangs 2
Ignoramus 2
Rythmic 1
At least, that's what I will be doing after I sign off today. Firefox will save this thread for me to analyze over the next 2 days.
We can still spook the lurker mafia into posting.
---------------------------------
Dead peoples.Quote:
Killed (4) :
777Ares777
TheFlax
White_Eyes :D
Reenk Roink
Lynched (2) :
TinCow
Tevashzat
Activity report:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
And one special one for General Hankerchief, as I must now accuse him.
GeneralHankerchief
Last Activity: Today 09:46
Voted TinCow as a "precautionary tactic." Why, because TinCow is veteran enough to smell your scum? I also have done some research into your mafia tell behavior, and my spidey senses are tingling a little.
Refers to in-character or out-of-character based on previous games. According to my more in-depth research on mafioso behavior, this is actually more often than not, a SCUM TELL. Mafia are interested in establishing themselves based on their previous behavior and want to frame the arguments of the discussion around that, because they have a prepared response to possible attacks on their character.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=147
Right here a big long analysis (my files show this to be a scummy thing to do... when one is a bolder mafia player, as GH probably is)Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=209
I was thinking that you weren't acting scummy, but not after this statement. :clown: Hurts, doesn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=266
Interesting you are so sure, at such an early juncture, about our path forward and who we should lynch.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=271
Argumentative. Point by point responses. Would it surprise you to know Sasaki exhibits such behavior as mafia? Most veteran players that I know do, and I've analyzed their behavior.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=273
Turning into PK? PrivateerKev was mafia in the last game, as I recall. :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
At such an early juncture, it's easy to ask someone "why shouldn't you be lynched?"... it could be townie behavior, but maybe you simply wanted to know what his hidden role was. He obviously had one. He smells like a townie, too, in retrospect.
Why were you so interested in his death? Maybe you knew he wasn't one of your own... one less round to worry about surviving in.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=325
GH abstains. You know, he abstains when he's mafia too. And why would you abstain past the first round or so? Nice excuse for not being here. (Hey, maybe it's real, I don't know, and I'm the last person who can safely accuse you... but still. I have to.)Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
You may not have time, legitimately. But when I add it up to all the other things you're doing which smell stinky to me based on my new method of analyzing behavior, you come up reeking. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but you already have made my spidey senses go through the roof. I am very close to asking town to lynch you along with me.
I will back off from this accusation for now, until I clear my head. It's possible I've smelled a false lead, and my bloodthirsty senses have gone haywire for no reason. When I come back, I will re-examine the evidence with a more objective viewpoint.
In the meantime, I am voting you.
Unvote: Rythmic I have bigger leads right now.
Vote: GeneralHankerchief. If I am wrong, I hope you will understand. See above post.
Edit: He was active today, and no posts here so far.
By the way, I understand I meet many of the criteria I am accusing GH of. I really, really don't care.
:whip:
Tourist am I. Speak not your tongue. Talking.. hurts..... my........ brain. :dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by ATPG in his post somewhere
Fine, fine fine. I was looking for mafia behavior... you seemed almost strangely devoid of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun
I'm actually more interested now in your opinion of GH. Is it just me?
Continuing with my activity report and analysis:
The work is never done until the game is over.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
And then there's me. I have over 40 posts here, I've been active at night several times, I am posting "way too much" in most of your minds to be a townie, and I probably reek to many of you. Good. Mafia might actually keep me alive as a suspect then. But seriously, my activity or lack thereof at night from now on will get me killed, I promise, or you can lynch or vigilante me.
Actually I planned to vote against him. He was the first one in TinCow's list and because he is a veteran mafia player then he could be one of the killers.
Interesting post, ATPG, thanks for making it. I'll hold off on any general reply until a few of those fingered have a chance to respond.
One note though is that I don't think it's good to hold the use of invisibility mode against someone. All mafia players are encouraged to use invisibility specifically to keep a bit more ambiguity in the game. Those who ignore this are certainly free to have their activity info milked for all it is worth, but those who do use it should not have it held against them. It's in the best interests of the game as a whole for everyone to be invisible and many people (myself included) use it even when they are townies.
@ Ibn
Ah but being a veteran isnt enough. I could almost be considered a veteran now. TinCow is one. Many people here are... it's more of his veteran behavior which I would suggest fits the profile of a scum role.
@ TinCow
Don't worry, it's not really an indicator... it's more of a statement that we cannot actually confirm their innocence by tracking activity.
Though I should note, email makes it possible to never visit this site, and still get kills in. So objectively, invisible mode is not a way of proving anything, nor is lack of activity.
@ Sigurd
Waiting for more from Sigurd too. I know you're here! :laugh2:
:stalker:
Come on down... you know you want to.
___________________
Ok, I made it easier on you guys and added the quotes I was referring to in my GH accusation above.
:bow:
Ooo, pizza, I didn't know I was coming across as feminine to ya'.
:belly:~:flirt::clown:
I like playing characters, even when I'm only given a fragment to work on. It's the reason I'm here.
___________________________________________________________________________
I'm also waiting for someone to tell me what they want to know about this statue.
I could write a book on it, there so much info.
Vote:Jolt
For teying to use his non participation in the MTW2 game as evidence of non mafia status.
:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Yeah I am definitely here... while working mind you (need to read most of the posts in here, which might be beneficial later in the game).
Your case against the General seems to be spot on. I am eager to hear his reply. I have also noticed that he no longer complains about not being picked as mafioso like he did in Midgard II. I am thinking that he finally received one in one of the games he plays.
He did say in the other game (Golden rule) that he will take a look at Ephesus later today. He usually throws a romp if we group our votes against him and if he is mafia.
It is however a bit early in the game IMO for any lengthy analysis.
Personally I would vote off YLC for even implying to have the life of RR in his hands. But let's try yours and TinCow's theory first. GH it is.
vote:GeneralHankiechief
I think Jolt is a fine choice. He triggered a "WTF?" reaction from me too.
I'd like to hear his defense first, especially about his "never" being on on weekends.
My top suspects
1. GeneralHankerchief (several reasons...)
2. 187Beefyz (explanation in my analysis. Your random votes for me were not random, IMHO)
3. Jolt (I'm giving you time to explain your gaffe)
ATPG has convinced me, plus I'm busy ATM.
Vote: GH
Bandwagoning GH would be too easy. I'd rather wait to hear from him first before voting.
I too think we should hear from him before blindly lynching. In the meantime, we should discuss other picks and other options.
Let's not get complacent.
Reminder, to tincow inparticular
Rythmic was mafia in my family guy game, and he lurked similarly as he is this game, see this as suspicious
Also i think Tiberus could be scum, he says reenk is vague and annoys him, when quite frankly tiberus has been vague throughout, it would make sense for him to want to kill a dangerous townie like reenk, and has been just enough active for him to be able to do so
:bow:
Vote: YLC
For now. If he is responsible for RR's death, and so soon after TevashSzat's death hinted that there's something more about him.
I'd like to hear from GH and Jolt, too.
edit:
I believe D1 I voted for FactionHeir.Quote:
Glyphz
Last Activity: Today 01:53
Voted for TinCow = Bad. Voted for TevashSzat = Neutral, for now.
Seems to be trying to contribute. I can't fault him yet.
Quote:
Tally:
GeneralHankerchief: 3 - (Askthepizzaguy, Sigurd, shlin28)
seireikhaan: 1 - (Ibn-Khaldun)
FactionHeir: 1 - (boudica)
Jolt: 1 - (Yoyoma1910)
YLC: 1 - (glyphz)
Abstain: 3 - (GH, CountArach, FH)
Please explain yourself on this, a couple of days off-line never clears anyone off crime, and now others have been accusing you of blantly lying; this is particularly foolish for a mafia to do, and assuming you're town, what is the reason for you to lie? :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolt
We're in agreement here, he's always there. I wanna lynch the old guy too. :smash:Quote:
Anyways, can we lynch the athletic guy? He gets on my nerves. >_>
@ATPG: That's some excellent anaylsis you've wrote there, hoping that it would provoke some meanful response from people.
My feeling in this game is that there must be at least one verteran player and one rookie as mafia, a lot of the verterans aren't talking much and voting abstains. I know there have reasons for it, but they needs to be checked out anyway.
I think Rythmic is likely to be innocent in this game, partnering him in family guy has given me a small insight into his game play. Family Guy mafia was his first game as mafia, he made reasonable contributions (misleding of course) and stayed off the radar, but blanking out completely and not saying anything is too much risk for a mafia to take. I feel the same about Lord Winter too, to me his absence from the guild altogether (for a week?) seems to be evidence enough of his innocence, but he is surely to be WOG'ed very, very soon.
Keep on accusing the seniors, GH's got enough vote on him to keep him from drifting away. I don't have anyone particular in mind and therefore won't vote at the moment.
This game has just got really interesting, plus Andres' write ups are great to read... and funny too. :yes:
I don't think Rythic is mafia, although that's just personal opionion and I have little source to back that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Ares777
I share your feeling with Tiberus, I would like to hear him talk in his defence. Jolt needs to explain himself too, althought I'm less suspicious about him.Quote:
Also i think Tiberus could be scum, he says reenk is vague and annoys him, when quite frankly tiberus has been vague throughout, it would make sense for him to want to kill a dangerous townie like reenk, and has been just enough active for him to be able to do so
:bow:
You are correct. I got the days mixed up. My sincerest apologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by glyphz
@ Atpg: No worries:bow:.
@ Quintus: Lynching the old man might not be a good idea. The old man fits w/ Reenk's claim of an old man blocker role. He's likely to be anti-scum/pro-town. The athletic guy... could be another story though.
If I recall... My analysis of the previous game revealed that the anonymous "town captain" who leads our lynches had some role.
I don't remember, and I am engaged in something ATM. Could someone check?
Actually I believe this is the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by glyphz
Night 1 PM from Andres
As an odinary townie I didn't have the ability to do anything at night, however the post suggests that the old man is in fact a blocker, and likely pro-town.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
I only wanted to lynch the old guy because he's annoying, just like the athletic guy.
Edit: Another guy was blocked too, suggesting that the man could possible block two people on one night?
Come on you lurkers! after last nights events surely its obvious that even painting a big sign saying "lynch me" on yourself is safer than hiding in the latrines!
If we have a blocker that we can communicate with, we might be able to clear some people.
A blocker functions much like an investigator. If you block someone, and they don't kill, then they could be mafia.
The mafia are now aware of this tactic, but they do not know which night which person will be blocked. And if they wanted to convincingly allow someone else to be blocked, and then not kill, they still have to not kill, which is to our advantage.
I highly recommend we devise a strategy involving the blocker, to narrow down our suspect list. But it must be unpredictable, even to people who are aware of it.
In the first game, the person who organized the lynch voting was the Carabinieri (detective). When he was killed, the write-up showed that he was dead. It did not indicate which of the people murdered that night was the Carabinieri, but it later turned out to be Rythmic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
IMO, Andres appears to be doing the same thing in this game. The 'athletic man' is a pro-town detective or some other pro-town role. As long as he keeps appearing in the day phase write-ups, we still have at least one power role alive.
Interesting idea, a bit risky though. We can hardly trust anyone that's even been blocked for a night, we are also putting the blocker's live in danger. Though if the idea works then it would be very benificial to town, in my opionion there are simply far too many people alive for the list to be narrowed down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
it's not a foolproof idea, no.
However, it could... encourage... the mafia not to murder quite so much, to make the people we block seem guilty.
THAT is absolutely 100% beneficial for town, even if the "block" doesnt absolutely clear someone or make someone guilty.
If it matters, in the previous game the night write-ups showed when the role blocker (Prostitute) was active. In the current game, we've seen some maniac laughing hysterically and destroying the statue of Artemis at night. This indicates the activity of a role which is not a normal mafioso. It is also consistent with the way in which Reenk Roink was behaving. The write-up of his death came immediately after the maniac's night action, which would allow for the possibility it was him. I would suggest that if we see no more of the night-time maniac, it was Reenk Roink and he is now dead. The question then remains whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, as the maniac write-up does not appear consistent with a role blocker.
Okay people, Monday is not really going to be a good day for me for several months now, but I'll try to do my best.
After an initial scanning of the posts, I'd just like to point out to Sigurd that my thirst to be a villain was properly quenched in khaan's Spirit Mafia in which I was the Puppet Master.
Let me do a thorough read of the last day or two and I'll get back to you fuller.
I don't see how that idea could work with over 20 people still in the game, it could be sound enough with less than 15 people at most though.
Yes its possible that the mafia would be more cautious about commiting murders, and that would be good for town.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=147
He "may drop out of the game" because he "cant really handle this multithread thing"Quote:
All right, let me do my discourse on your posting behavior and then I'll head over to Golden Rule to discuss what's going on there... and then I'll take some pills and do something mindless for the next three hours or so. I may have to drop out of this game; I can't really handle this multi-thread thing.
He's the man who single handedly brought mafia to the org, if I am not mistaken, and organized and hosted some of the biggest mafia games of the org, while keeping tabs on results and writeups and revealing inside information afterwards... How many games is he in right now? One of the games is basically almost over and there's not much else to do.
I don't buy it. I don't know what his defense is, but I think I'm already prejudiced against it.
You guys are going to need to restrain me and duct tape my mouth and fingers. :laugh2:
Let the man have a rebuttal... let the man have a rebuttal...
In GH's defense, I personally know that he has been extremely busy for the last several months due to starting college. He has had to drop out of playing an active avatar in LotR as a result, and I've seen a marked reduction in his activity on the Org in general. That doesn't clear him of anything, but IMHO, if he says he's really busy, then he is really busy.
All right, it's hurricane time. I'm going to split my post into two parts, one of them being my defense and the other being my comments on what's been going on in the game.
For my defense, ATPG, I'm mostly going to pick on your post, since it serves what I want to say.
You note my previous contributions to the .Org and the Gameroom in particular and you compare my current activity to them, pointing out the difference:
Clearly, you've done some homework and read my past games. However, this paints an improper picture. If you really want to analyze the trends, what you need to do is read each and every single one of my 5,000+ posts, especially analyzing the dates over a broad range of time. Naturally, I don't blame you for doing this. Heck, I know I wouldn't do this with anybody else. However, when it comes to discussing my greater activity as a whole I can do it since I've, you know, lived it.Quote:
He's the man who single handedly brought mafia to the org, if I am not mistaken, and organized and hosted some of the biggest mafia games of the org, while keeping tabs on results and writeups and revealing inside information afterwards... How many games is he in right now? One of the games is basically almost over and there's not much else to do.
I brought Mafia to the .Org in June 2006, which was abotu two and a half years ago. In 2006 alone, I hosted five of my eight big games, providing a commentary on each. This was done over the period of half a year, mind. In 2007, I only hosted two big games, and only provided a commentary in one of them. Now, part of this was due to the increasing popularity of the Gameroom, but also keep in mind I had double the time and still only hosted two games. In addition, the "Gameroom got bigger" explanation doesn't properly explain my lack of commentary for Mafia VII. Now, in 2008, I only hosted one large game, Mafia VIII. This was done, for the most part, over the summer, when I did not have school to worry about and only worked a small, part-time job.
In addition to my hosting less, I've also played less. TinCow already pointed out my essential bowing out of LotR recently. But in the past year and a half I've also taken two extended breaks from Mafia, not playing a single game for months at a time. Now, it's probably true that I've played multiple games in the past. However, if I have, I certainly haven't done so for a long time. Comparing my 2009 data from my 2006 and early 2007 data only while leaving out my mid/late 2007 and 2008 data is folly. This is a significant jump in activity for me, relatively speaking. And while I'm trying to become more active in the Gameroom and make this new behavior the norm, I'm not sure if I can pull it off. My desire to join this game in the first place was out of a desire to play a "big" game (even among Large games) again. I'm naturally partial to khaan's Chicago Soiree, because, hey, that style of game is my specialty.
Now, as far as my actual behavior (and not lack, thereof) goes:
First of all, just as a general point, much of your attacks on me come from my past behavior. Let me just say that if you don't think I naturally and purposely evolve my behavior/tactics, shame on you. It's good overall play to do this. Otherwise, you stand at risk of becoming like Seamus and Kommodus, who, while excellent townies, are as predictable as the sunrise and stand out like a sore thumb when they become mafia.
You say this is scummy but don't give an explanation.Quote:
I was thinking that you weren't acting scummy, but not after this statement. :clown: Hurts, doesn't it?
I know this goes against my previous statement, but I've always argued this path. When you have two polar opposite targets in a situation so ambiguous, you take them both down just to be certain you got the right person. I believe I was one of the first to push for this in Cosa Nuova I, when Sasaki and Kagemusha counterclaimed each other as Detective in the first round. In my mind, you can't beat the brute-force approach, especially early in the game. Efficient? Not really. Effective? Yes.Quote:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=266
Interesting you are so sure, at such an early juncture, about our path forward and who we should lynch.
Would it surprise you to know that good players do this as town too? Sasaki destroyed me in Godfather 2 using argumentative behavior and point-by-point responses trying to poke holes in my (false) claim as Detective.Quote:
Argumentative. Point by point responses. Would it surprise you to know Sasaki exhibits such behavior as mafia? Most veteran players that I know do, and I've analyzed their behavior.
I wasn't referring to PK in Taormina, I was referring to him in Midgard when he was criticizing for me trying to Holmgang people, saying that my pursuit of fun (similar to Reenk's in this game) was detrimental to the town and that I should stop.Quote:
Turning into PK? PrivateerKev was mafia in the last game, as I recall.
How in God's name did it look like he had a pro-town role? All he was doing at the time was singularly focusing discussion on him (bad, since it lets the mafia slip by under the radar) and mocking us all. This was not good town behavior. Yes, it looks now that he was pretty much a townie. However, hindsight is 20/20. Find me ONE PERSON who thought this way before he got lynched. Everybody thought he had some special role, good or bad. I thought bad. This point of yours makes no sense.Quote:
At such an early juncture, it's easy to ask someone "why shouldn't you be lynched?"... it could be townie behavior, but maybe you simply wanted to know what his hidden role was. He obviously had one. He smells like a townie, too, in retrospect.
As pointed out in that post, I was going back to school and thus my mind was elsewhere than on the game. Considering that I missed the vote in the last round, I didn't want to become WoG-bait.Quote:
GH abstains. You know, he abstains when he's mafia too. And why would you abstain past the first round or so? Nice excuse for not being here. (Hey, maybe it's real, I don't know, and I'm the last person who can safely accuse you... but still. I have to.)
~~~~~~~~~~~
I was going to finish my post with something besides a defense, but I need to be off and doing something else now. I hope people actually read it and consider the points I made.
The blow-by-blow defense was expected, and didn't really counter much of my claims, if you look closely.
He basically argues that I'd need to analyze all his 5000 posts in order to recognize patterns of behavior. I don't... because none of you have done this, and neither has he, and we still recognize those patterns.
He then goes into a long explanation for his declining activity and renewed interest in mafia. That's fine, but the Chicago Soiree hasn't even started yet and the total activity in the Golden Rule mafia is negligible at this stage of the game. You just show up, vote, and you're done. Same as last round, or slightly less work, not more.
He never once explains how this thread is a significant burden to him or why he cannot handle it in conjunction with the limited, if any, activity in other games. Which is fine, that alone doesn't make him mafia, nor does anything else I've said.
What I've said is that it LIKELY makes him mafia.
Then he suggests his behavior has evolved. Good! Mine has as well. However, he's arguing against himself here, because he's the one who suggested examining past behavior in this very thread.
Which is it? Is it reliable or not? If it's not reliable, could it contain some key information?
It basically comes down to a judgment call. In my judgment, you made a mistake and revealed that you are hiding a secret.
The part with the clown is a joke. But it shows you declaring how guilty someone is for their behavior, with the finality that perhaps wasn't deserved. I intended to highlight that by turning your argument on you.
I was thinking that you weren't acting scummy, but not after this statement
You have been final in your judgments and quick to make them. Different style of play? Sloppy? Or mafia behavior?
_______________
I've relaxed and done other things, I feel I have a clearer head. From where I sit, your defense has not convinced me.
If I am wrong, I apologize, but there was not enough there to overturn or satisfy my suspicions.
About this old man thing... he told me a boring story too and I fell asleep :wall:
At first I thought it was a mafia trying to convert me, but after reading the write-ups I seem only to be blocked :beam: YAY!
I'm still voting GH though after reading the thread thoroughly this time. In ATPG I trust :yes:
Be sure to read GH's rebuttal and my counter-argument before you make up your mind. I don't want to be the sole person who put any thought into his death. Some of you have considered it carefully and decided he's guilty, which is fine. Just give GH a fair hearing, as I would hope you would do for me if I ever got accused.
No you don't, because you attacked my activity level and it required an explanation from me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Just showing up and voting is very very very bad for the town. You need to show up, read the thread, and make an informed vote. I don't like to do anything less than that. Since this game is high activity and since I'm having trouble keeping up, THAT'S what's keeping me less active.Quote:
He never once explains how this thread is a significant burden to him or why he cannot handle it in conjunction with the limited, if any, activity in other games. Which is fine, that alone doesn't make him mafia, nor does anything else I've said.
You yourself said that most of the arguments used against me could also be used against you, but you didn't care. I did this once or twice and now you call me out on it. So hypocrisy's only okay when you do it?Quote:
Then he suggests his behavior has evolved. Good! Mine has as well. However, he's arguing against himself here, because he's the one who suggested examining past behavior in this very thread.
What?Quote:
Which is it? Is it reliable or not? If it's not reliable, could it contain some key information?
It basically comes down to a judgment call. In my judgment, you made a mistake and revealed that you are hiding a secret.
Reenk's behavior was actively detrimental to the town. My behavior on the other hand wasn't much of anything.Quote:
The part with the clown is a joke. But it shows you declaring how guilty someone is for their behavior, with the finality that perhaps wasn't deserved. I intended to highlight that by turning your argument on you.
You are, as your user title puts it, "wrong on so many levels", as you will find out.Quote:
If I am wrong, I apologize, but there was not enough there to overturn or satisfy my suspicions.
Here's my question, Pizzaguy: Why did you initially target GH instead of, say, me? Or Rythmic? Or any of the other players who are lurking their way through this game thus far? By the same logic you apply to GH, there should be roughly 12 mafioso in this game. ~:rolleyes:
Vote: Pizzaguy
In that case I have to lynch all those 12 people at once..Quote:
Originally Posted by seireikhaan
Gah! A lot of work lies ahead...
I recommend not lynching GH this round. It seems my list of lurking vets got this ball rolling on him. I posted that list because I wanted to get those people talking, not necessarily lynch them just for lurking. Talkative veteran players are very beneficial if they are on the town's side. Let's not go eliminating them just for the hell of it. GH is talking now, and that was the objective. Switch your votes to someone else to provoke a similar response.
I know you didn't post this without reading my posts, so I assume you know that I started with the least active townies and began tracking their activity and their posting behavior so far. When I got to GeneralHankerchief I was startled by the results.Quote:
Originally Posted by seireikhaan
You do not have such odd behaviors in your posts. Neither did Rythmic. Rythmic simply is rather inactive and is WOG bait. He has one post.
GH is not guilty of Lurking. He's guilty of making odd posts which indicate something is awry. He's posting arguments which make no sense to me. His behavior is identical to other games where he's been mafia, in my opinion, and also identical to many veteran player's behavior when they aren't townie.
That is my assessment and you are free to disagree. However, there is a significant difference between GH and Rythmic, and GH and Seireikhaan, and you would know that, if you read my posts and theirs. You should know that. Why don't you?
And yes, I freely admit some of this stuff applies to me. Go ahead and lynch me. I'd prefer to let the mafia strike me dead, but having a me as a suspect and still alive may make them refuse. You'll lynch me eventually, it can be now if you wish. However, I will not give a blow-by-blow defense of myself. I am simply looking for suspect behavior, and I'm aware mine qualifies, and I'll continue my efforts after I am dead.
That GH would give a blow-by-blow defense is interesting in and of itself, but it is more typical behavior from him. That his defense had holes in it was more interesting.
I have answered your question, and unless you have something more substantial on me, I encourage you to either change your vote or give me further reasons why you think I am mafia. I'd prefer you re-examine my arguments as well, because I believe several people thought they had merit, and you just rejected them out of hand. Why?
Aha!Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Now everything before that was expected. Here this was unexpected.
This is sharply more aggressive than one would expect from an accused. This comment does not sit well with me either. If I am so wrong, it is not necessary to post this. It is necessary to show me why I am wrong. To post this, is more or less a taunt, and less professional behavior than I am used to from GH.
I would suggest this is a crack in your facade, GH. You didn't handle my accusation well, in my opinion.
Okay, fine. I didn't want to do this, but this is more out of a sick pleasure to prove you wrong:
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Originally Posted by Andres
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Originally Posted by Andres
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Originally Posted by Andres
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Originally Posted by Andres
Your theories need work. Now change your vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Let's hear about the statue please -- history etc.
I like this argument that GH and Pizza have going. My read is that both are townies -- though I will reserve judgement for now and
VOTE: Abstain
YLC -- you implied some form of active role beyond that of voting to lynch. Could you discuss this more? If you're trying to duck mafia attention, you're too late as you made your post and it has already drawn two comments since.
Pizza:
Who was it that said they were off weekends but was on and posting? My previous posts queue at the bottom of this reply doesn't go back that far.
I am posting less this game. My personal life (RL) responsibilities have grown recently -- though I do not wish to go into specifics. If you pm Andres, Kukrikhan or Sigurd they will confirm that fact.
Voting analysis seems to show a lot of people voting for Tev who end up dead.....
I still think we've something to learn from the kill methodology. I do not suspect rival families -- though I can't fully discount it -- and do suspect some kind of quasi-townie role for the knifeman.
Hmm. Not to be stubborn or anything, but people had basically agreed not to lynch you this round, merely question you. The reveal was entirely unnecessary.
It's also possible these are forgeries. It's not as though that's never happened before.
I never said I couldn't be wrong, but in my opinion, the questioning of your behavior was justified. And now this reveal puzzles me further.
However, your reveal can at least be corroborated by the parties you indicated. They can all say whether or not you blocked them, and in such a case, I would have nothing further to add in an accusation against you, and you'd have my apologies.
People who should not be lynched at the moment:
GH - obvious
Rythmic - Hasn't been on the forums for days, and thus would be incapable of submitting night orders
Seamus - Blocked on a night with 3 killings
shlin - Blocked on a night with 3 killings.
I'm currently very happy with the deaths of both Tevash and RR. They were both blocked on a night when there were no killings. While the writeup does indicate some mafo-activity was going on that wasn't murder-related, GH almost certainly got one of them with his block. Good job on lynching Tevash, and don't feel regret over RR.
Regardless of your intent, I was going down. Now people know what I was and maybe I might get another couple rounds of blocks in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Either way, as soon as I die, people will stop getting PMs saying that an old man told them stories. Anyone who says otherwise, lynch them immediately. They are lying.
I can confirm having received a Andres PM on the 3-kill night.
Andres indicated that I had been bored into a stupor while listening to stories. I was accompanied by one other person who was also put to sleep.
No indication was given as to the identity of the storyteller.
Curiously, on the night GH claims to have bored Tev' and Reenk, nobody perished.....
FYI, it is actually pretty important that people shift their votes. GH is still leading in the lynch vote and there's only about 1 hour left until execution time. Anyone who is able to vote elsewhere should do so.
Okay, well so long as no one shows up and says you're lying, I will accept your explanation.
Unvote: GeneralHankerchief
Vote: 187Beefyz
I'm not a mafia either, I was just doing my job as a loyal townie looking for clues. It wasn't my intention to reveal a roleblocker.
Maybe I am no one's hero at the moment, but I must continue with the inquisition, so to speak. Regardless of my failed prediction here, voting for me twice is not a random vote. It does seem like he has it out for me, and I don't accept the "random" part of his explain. If you have something better on me, go for it.
Lord knows I've given you plenty to work with.
I would like to hear more from Jolt, as well.
Er... Unvote: GH
Vote: FH
For stating the obvious.
Tally:
FactionHeir: 2 - (boudica, shlin28)
GeneralHankerchief: 1 - (Sigurd)
seireikhaan: 1 - (Ibn-Khaldun)
Jolt: 1 - (Yoyoma1910)
YLC: 1 - (glyphz)
Askthepizzaguy: 1 - ('khaan)
187Beefyz: 1 (Atpg)
Abstain: 4 - (GH, CountArach, FH, Seamus Fermanagh)
double-checking...
I confirm my good man's story. I also had this happen to me and another man was there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
I will just say, while I did my mission and fulfilled my first and second objectives, that roleblocker prevented me from killing and investigating.
I was going to kill Jolt. Dunno if he's Mafia or not, but I had a bone to pick with him for voting for me. :laugh4:
Also, TinCow, you may advise the town to feel no regret over my death, it is your call. I feel my death was much more damaging to the towns cause than yours, just as my life was much more beneficial to the cause. :2thumbsup:
I would like to remind the town that I gave them TevashSzat straight up. Without me, which of you were suspicious of him? I would like to remind them that I could have given them more...
Where was the doctor!? :laugh4:
I've re-read the intro story a bit. With the added knowledge we now have from the write-ups, I've got a theory:
1) Manfredo is the guy leading the lynchings. He is very athletic, which fits the descriptions. In addition, we've already got 2 pairs of badguys: Bernard and Isabelle and Günner and Fehrad. Putting in a 5th mafioso would be unbalanced. It would also be inconsistent with Manfredo leading the lynch vote. The intro story also specifically states that Manfredo is "retired" which is more proof that he is no longer mafioso. My bet is that Manfredo is the Ephesus equivalent of the detective.
2) Isabelle is specifically described as crazy. This would fit with RR's style of play and also fits with the bizarre person running around like a maniac. As I noted previously, if we do not see this kind of activity continuing in the nightly write-ups, I would mark RR down as a deceased Isabelle.