Casual december game

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Lean wolf
12. Vulgard
6. luvs2spooge
5. Ampharos
9. EnderWiggin

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Why do you lean woof on Ampharos? Posts seem disjointed, but not bad from what I've read so far.

Since you're already clearly annoyed, I will move my pressure elsewhere for today and give you breathing room.

But the wolf lean stays until something changes it.

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Originally Posted by Csargo

Why do you lean woof on Ampharos? Posts seem disjointed, but not bad from what I've read so far.

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I can grab the quotes... hang on

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Would you like examples of a wolf hedging in the exact previous game I played,
And the game before that,
And the game before that,
And the game before that,

With no breaks in between?

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I could do the same for villagers.

What are you trying to prove? I probably shouldn't have written that part about hedging, because this is going to turn into an argument about principles, which seems worthless to me and doesn't actually advance the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Ah, annoyed sarcasm, we meet again.

Not villagery, but familiar.

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I mean, you're calling me a wolf for something I do every game and which I don't think is wolf-indicative to begin with under most circumstances. There's nuance to that, too.

Ok it seems I have to do this like 8 quotes at a time, and then manually deselect them after.

This will take a few minutes Csargo

forgot the draconian limitations we have here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Since you're already clearly annoyed, I will move my pressure elsewhere for today and give you breathing room.

But the wolf lean stays until something changes it.

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You have no idea how accustomed I am to being wolfread, I hardly ever get towncleared for anything. The thing I'm annoyed by is your reasoning, because it seems like you're applying unreasonable standards to my slot despite not even knowing how I play (by your own admission) and treating me like a megawolf (by your own admission). Like, if I'm a megawolf, then me hedging this hard shouldn't be something I do as a wolf. And I don't feel like you should be expecting me to have hard reads on a ton of slots when the game has barely started (especially since you don't know how I play).

You're probably town for it, because the more I convince myself you're a wolf the more I feel silly about thinking that, but come on.

Ampharos iso and related posts supplementing the read:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by Ampharos

im retired

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NAI

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ampharos

pizza are you ok

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NAI

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ampharos

Vote: Logic

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Vote which is supported later.

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Originally Posted by Ampharos

help i've never done a rodeo before

the horse is angry and i'm scared

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NAI

NAI stuff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ampharos

if logic's readslist is vibes-based, why does he then go out of his way to add "i'll let you guys figure out the reasons"

"vibes" is a perfectly valid reason

strikes me as a worry that his readslist won't look legitimate enough without the implication that there's additional reasoning happening behind-the-scenes

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Addresses the general audience, which is a wolftell of mine, doesn't engage Logic directly, so this is wolfy passive aggression.

If this is a villager sussing someone, then there would be some engagement with the target to determine their alignment as opposed to already pushing a conclusion toward the other jurors.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

I am now calling Ampharos my mindmeld townbuddy.

This is not a pocket attempt.tm

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I believe Ender is a wolf so far, and this is wolfy defense strategy.

Supplemental.

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Originally Posted by Ampharos

cape and ender are the only actually funny people in this thread so they can be town

the rest of you are awarded no points, and may god have mercy on your souls

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ampharos

wait fuck i got tricked into actually playing mafia

this isn't persona 5 royal at all

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I think this is bad acting. I can't use this as persuasive, but the post doesnt read genuine at all, it has a wolfy tone.

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Originally Posted by Ampharos

posts dreamed up by the utterly Deranged

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Nonsensical and doesn't engage with someone that, purportedly, they are struggling to read, meaning me.

See next post:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ampharos

pizza's manic energy is undeniably real and probably alignment nonindicative

his insistence that rvs won't end until people give reads on him is... odd, and almost somewhat passive in a roundabout sort of way. there are a billion ways for rvs to give way to Real Content, many of which include him giving reads on other people, and the implication that he himself will not be the one to give the read that ends rvs somewhat concerns me

based purely on recollection [i will NOT be doing research, do NOT ask me to] pizza does have a tendency to adopt a thread-protagonist persona as either alignment, but as villager i think it breaks closer to "i'll lead the charge" vs as wolf being "let's all do this together". his actual game-related comments thus far strike me as slightly leaning towards the latter

that said i kinda don't think i'm actually wolfreading him lol

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All of the bolded are wolftells.

Please continue villaging if you are, villagers wolftell.

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Now I ask a solving question:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

To assist me in "NotWolfreading" you, please give post numbers or quotes of the things they said you found funny.

Do not tell me why you found them funny.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ampharos

did you know i once got my car searched by the cops because they asked if i had weed and i said "probably not, no"

note: i do not smoke weed

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Amy does not engage or answer the question.

In summary, mostly wolftells, bad process or nonexistent process, not engaging with someone they're struggling to read, not interested in resolving that person's alignment, speaking to the general audience (the jury) and passive aggressively pushing a conclusion with regard to Logic as opposed to solving Logic in a genuine manner by engaging them.

Two disengagements, multiple bad acting wolfy tone fake posts, loads of passive aggression.

Nothing villagery at all in the iso, period.

Hey csargo, kage

hope you fellas have been well

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Originally Posted by Visor

Hey csargo, kage

hope you fellas have been well

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Yep been going good, how's it going Visor?

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Originally Posted by Vulgard

You have no idea how accustomed I am to being wolfread, I hardly ever get towncleared for anything. The thing I'm annoyed by is your reasoning, because it seems like you're applying unreasonable standards to my slot despite not even knowing how I play (by your own admission) and treating me like a megawolf (by your own admission). Like, if I'm a megawolf, then me hedging this hard shouldn't be something I do as a wolf. And I don't feel like you should be expecting me to have hard reads on a ton of slots when the game has barely started (especially since you don't know how I play).

You're probably town for it, because the more I convince myself you're a wolf the more I feel silly about thinking that, but come on.

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I am not even voting you, so I do not believe your annoyance levels can be coming from a villager.

You're arguing with me about stuff that catches wolves every game for years. I will not be persuaded my methods don't find wolves.

I can be persuaded they're not finding a wolf right now, in your name. But this isn't the way to convince me of that, and the more you talk to me like I am a villager, the less I believe you're struggling to read my alignment.

But, I do not need to vote you today, as I find it vanishingly unlikely my 4 suspects are all villagers.

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Originally Posted by Csargo

Yep been going good, how's it going Visor?

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i've been pretty good

long year but enjoying a break at the end of it

Enderwiggin immediately getting flustered over mild early game wolf reads, Vulgard doing the same on even less pressure, Amy doing half the passive aggressive wolf tells, and spooge having no process on their leans list with Amy as a top townie.

Followed by most of the day being wolfy banter between most of these, leads me to believe there are multiple wolves engaged in the Defense strategy contained within these names.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

i've been pretty good

long year but enjoying a break at the end of it

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Nice glad to hear it. :2thumbsup:

Any juicy thoughts on the game so far?

What is your read on Logic?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Enderwiggin immediately getting flustered over mild early game wolf reads, Vulgard doing the same on even less pressure, Amy doing half the passive aggressive wolf tells, and spooge having no process on their leans list with Amy as a top townie.

Followed by most of the day being wolfy banter between most of these, leads me to believe there are multiple wolves engaged in the Defense strategy contained within these names.

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I'm starting to think you are faking those reads. There's no way you have a confident worldview right now and believe it so strongly.

Me thinking this probably makes you town, though.

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Originally Posted by Csargo

Nice glad to hear it. :2thumbsup:

Any juicy thoughts on the game so far?

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i got a couple percolating about, but i wanna take some time to read over the game thread and try and pin down how i am feeling - i've mostly just read over bits and pieces here and there

what about yuo?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I also have solid Nulltown reads on everyone else who has posted, minus say Dyachei or Csargo but theyre not wolfy yet.

Newcomb box strategy combined with my every single game scum finding process.

It's day one so it can be wrong especially with so many people that I cannot read.

But there's wolfy stuff happening and I'mma call it as I see it.

Combined processes so far leading to reads.

Conclusion to come by end of day when everyone is a read as opposed to a 2 1 or 0 poster.

Confidence levels are... what they should be. Every intellectual thread says this, emotions eating at me.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i.imgur.com/Wd4RKg2.png

Reminding myself not to doubt myself too much.

Spooge is whatever, can shrugkill and might do that if I don't have a stronger take by EoD.

No real opinion on the others you listed.

Taking a break for dinner and family time.

https://i.imgur.com/DI94lns.gif

Nic Cage give me strength.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by Vulgard

I'm starting to think you are faking those reads. There's no way you have a confident worldview right now and believe it so strongly.

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Confidence levels are always fighting with the anxiety demons for control over my brain, but you will find it exactly matches every single town game I've done all year, on the first round, without exception.

With the results that keep telling me to try to be confident about it, because doubting my wolf read let one go in Friends 17 and it was a 95 percent wolf read based on all my time honored processes, too.

I never should have let him go but he fought back so well I doubted the processes.

Mainly because the confidence is propped up by a decision to be confident as opposed to a lack of doubts.

Inner thoughts on display.

atpg i dont want to tell u how to play

but you do kinda have 100 posts in like just over 12 hours lol

maybe slow it down just a touch to let the thread breathe a little ymmv

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Originally Posted by Vulgard

What is your read on Logic?

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Opening seems weird and readlist also just weird as well. Saying vibes and then 'figure out the why', strikes me as odd. Everything else seems meh, so I have a pretty negative view on Logic so far.

pizza is being pizza, I see. might a couple v points but I'm not ready to commit yet

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Originally Posted by Csargo

Opening seems weird and readlist also just weird as well. Saying vibes and then 'figure out the why', strikes me as odd. Everything else seems meh, so I have a pretty negative view on Logic so far.

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i think you've played with him before, is this like...baseline logic weird or wolfy logic weird?

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Originally Posted by Visor

i got a couple percolating about, but i wanna take some time to read over the game thread and try and pin down how i am feeling - i've mostly just read over bits and pieces here and there

what about yuo?

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Nothing that hasn't already been brought up I don't think. Other than I don't really like some of hk's posts with regards to pizza and ender. Nothing else really.

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Originally Posted by Csargo

Nothing that hasn't already been brought up I don't think. Other than I don't really like some of hk's posts with regards to pizza and ender. Nothing else really.

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nice

villagery post bronana u are lock clear

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Originally Posted by Visor

Hey csargo, kage

hope you fellas have been well

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Hi Visor! Hope life been kind to you. I think since we last talked. I got married and have a 2,5 year old daughter now. ~:wave:

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Originally Posted by dyachei

i think you've played with him before, is this like...baseline logic weird or wolfy logic weird?

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I don't remember tbh, so I can't really say how to differentiate the two.

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Originally Posted by Visor

nice

villagery post bronana u are lock clear

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:bow:

sigh i accidentally closed my tab and lost my post

cliffs:

atpg prob town for d1 (though hes made some weird posts)

csargo prob town (actually this is a horrendous read but yolo lol)

hkatt eh

cape weird

logic wolfy

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Hi Visor! Hope life been kind to you. I think since we last talked. I got married and have a 2,5 year old daughter now. ~:wave:

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wowza thats quite the life change

congrats man, seems like things are going well for you, happy to hear it

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Originally Posted by Visor

wowza thats quite the life change

congrats man, seems like things are going well for you, happy to hear it

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Thanks! Im a happy man these days. :bow:

anyone stand out to you atm kage?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Ampharos iso and related posts supplementing the read:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

NAI


NAI


Vote which is supported later.


NAI

NAI stuff


Addresses the general audience, which is a wolftell of mine, doesn't engage Logic directly, so this is wolfy passive aggression.

If this is a villager sussing someone, then there would be some engagement with the target to determine their alignment as opposed to already pushing a conclusion toward the other jurors.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I believe Ender is a wolf so far, and this is wolfy defense strategy.

Supplemental.



I think this is bad acting. I can't use this as persuasive, but the post doesnt read genuine at all, it has a wolfy tone.


Nonsensical and doesn't engage with someone that, purportedly, they are struggling to read, meaning me.

See next post:



Now I ask a solving question:





Amy does not engage or answer the question.

In summary, mostly wolftells, bad process or nonexistent process, not engaging with someone they're struggling to read, not interested in resolving that person's alignment, speaking to the general audience (the jury) and passive aggressively pushing a conclusion with regard to Logic as opposed to solving Logic in a genuine manner by engaging them.

Two disengagements, multiple bad acting wolfy tone fake posts, loads of passive aggression.

Nothing villagery at all in the iso, period.

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I liked the Logic post, mostly cause I agree with it. And it doesn't really preclude Logic from engaging with it, but it is sort of passive in the way you described.

The post on you just seems wrong from my experience at least. The last line is bad in the post about you imo, the rest in fine^tm.

Overall, it's not great I'd agree.

i feel like exactly the people i would expect to be wolf read pre-rand are the ones people are most concerned about

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Originally Posted by dyachei

i feel like exactly the people i would expect to be wolf read pre-rand are the ones people are most concerned about

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do you like logics posts

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Originally Posted by Visor

do you like logics posts

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not really but I never do

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

sigh i accidentally closed my tab and lost my post

cliffs:

atpg prob town for d1 (though hes made some weird posts)

csargo prob town (actually this is a horrendous read but yolo lol)

hkatt eh

cape weird

logic wolfy

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Why is cape weird?

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Originally Posted by Csargo

Why is cape weird?

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didnt get jokes

posts had weird tone idk


he gets a :stare:

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Originally Posted by Visor

didnt get jokes

posts had weird tone idk


he gets a :stare:

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d1 :stare: pretty glaring indictment

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Originally Posted by Visor

anyone stand out to you atm kage?

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I dont have anything to point my finger into yet. Hope more people would chip in and talk.

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Originally Posted by dyachei

i feel like exactly the people i would expect to be wolf read pre-rand are the ones people are most concerned about

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Who? Logic + Ender? + ???

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Originally Posted by Vulgard

Several people didn't read ATPG's pre-game posting, huh.

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nah, I read it. I also remembered how pizza posted to open a mash on mafiauniverse a short time ago and he was wolf there and this was similar enough that I wanted to let him know I remembered.

vote logic

seems like an obvious wolf

I think Csargo is town for the way they talked about Logic. It just felt genuine. No frills.

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Originally Posted by ladd

vote logic

seems like an obvious wolf

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Can you elaborate?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

nah, I read it. I also remembered how pizza posted to open a mash on mafiauniverse a short time ago and he was wolf there and this was similar enough that I wanted to let him know I remembered.

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Is this psychological warfare?

Just finished my worst towngame in my history of playing mafia, ama.

The contrast between my recent experiences and Pizza's is pretty hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Vulgard

Just finished my worst towngame in my history of playing mafia, ama.

The contrast between my recent experiences and Pizza's is pretty hilarious.

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what happened

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Originally Posted by Csargo

Who? Logic + Ender? + ???

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Amy

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Originally Posted by Vulgard

Just finished my worst towngame in my history of playing mafia, ama.

The contrast between my recent experiences and Pizza's is pretty hilarious.

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And now I can answer Pizza's concerns from earlier in more depth. I feel genuinely scared of making reads now, because I just finished a game where I had 4 villagers as wolfreads and two wolves as towncore. We did end up winning that game, but I almost singlehandedly made us lose it, and it took the presence of another villager who became an IC for us to win. It was by far my worst town performance ever.

I also had really terrible reads in some other recent games, which doesn't help. So, yeah. I do have thoughts, but I'm afraid of expressing them because I don't want to be lolwrong again. My last game was an awful performance, so was the game before that, and I tried to express more confidence in both because people have historically wolfread me for hedging, much like you're doing. But me expressing more confidence just led to me becoming even more lolwrong and pushing the wolves' agenda for them.

Realistically, I suspect you for being so confident in such a major solve, Pizza, because I couldn't imagine being this confident this early. I simply could not. I don't have a single read right now that I would 100% commit to. I had two such reads early into my last game and both were horrendously wrong. You have a world of four already.

Your pushes on players other than myself also rub me the wrong way. The push on Ender especially feels like you're seeing something I can't possibly see. From my perspective, Ender did something that vaguely seemed pockety, I told him half-jokingly that he was trying to pocket an innocent townie, he bounced back. This could've just been banter or a V/V interaction on our part. He could be a villager for it! Or just a villager. But you seem to be reading his behavior there as really wolfy to the point that you see me as a wolf with him (or at least that's how I interpreted your posting about us). It's really hard for me to parse your confidence, even with your explanation just now, and the thought process around me and Ender. I just think you're reading into stuff with Ender that isn't necessarily there.

And of course, if Ender is a wolf, then you're going to have been right, then I'm going to look awful for making this post, then i might get yeeted and feel I deserved it for playing poorly yet again. Always a risk, and not even too unlikely. You could be right and I could be the dumbass for wolfreading you here. I'm just sitting here with my little perspective and my instinct says "this guy could easily be tryhard wolfing here despite saying he wouldn't tryhard. He shouldn't be trying this hard as a villager, he said he wouldn't try hard and villagers care less, especially when they give slank cover like this." But I'm not even sure if this is a good line of thinking.

It's basically that. I can't express a confident read. Because when I do, I ruin games. My ability to find wolves is bad and does not improve. My ability to find town is hit or miss. I sometimes write godly posts, but I can never recognize when, and I do not pursue it when I do. Me being accused of hedging, and you calling it so wolfy, and you putting so much pressure on me for it, it kinda just feels like you're being opportunistic, especially since you're not looking into why I might be hedging. I feel like that should be a consideration.

I'm talking a lot about myself in this post and it's probably not really helping, but I can't formulate my thoughts about you without talking about myself first and explaining why I'm not giving many reads, especially confident reads. I know that the way I'm reacting to my poor performance in the last game is probably not the best (outright not making confident reads because my last ones were wrong), but the inaccuracy of my reads has been consistent enough lately that I'd rather just give thoughts instead of reads, if that makes sense, and hope that these thoughts help other people - presumably with better reads than me - nail wolves.

I'm not sure how I will operate independently, and I probably won't figure it out this game.

I should end this post here, and I am.

Probably just read the part about Pizza, I embellished it a lot with talk about myself and those parts are probably not as helpful.

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Originally Posted by Vulgard

Just finished my worst towngame in my history of playing mafia, ama.

The contrast between my recent experiences and Pizza's is pretty hilarious.

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Tell me about your wolf game as well, but I would like to hear this on a "me not hunting mafia" level, because I am here to socialize, relax, and hear stories and tales and jokes and memes and things.

The first request is srs bsns, but it can wait. Tell me about your bad towngame, because I will respond with one of my own.

And we can share and bond and get to know each other a bit.

Getting to know you through meta diving you is not the entire experience.

I either am on a big delay or we just crossposted so

I just read it and thank you.

May I respond with a wall of my own?

This will be me talking to village!Vulgard.

I'm not going to lie - I am a bit concerned about ladd as well for his post about Logic here.

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Originally Posted by ladd

vote logic

seems like an obvious wolf

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Same idea as my AOTP concerns, just ignore the part about effort because ladd has barely posted. I don't like the confidence coming into this read, especially since it's a popular take and it feels like an LHF-y target if town. The latter part might be a bit tacked-on and forced in my part, which could lead me to confbiasing the slot, but the first part stands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Tell me about your wolf game as well, but I would like to hear this on a "me not hunting mafia" level, because I am here to socialize, relax, and hear stories and tales and jokes and memes and things.

The first request is srs bsns, but it can wait. Tell me about your bad towngame, because I will respond with one of my own.

And we can share and bond and get to know each other a bit.

Getting to know you through meta diving you is not the entire experience.

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My wolfgame is pretty good. I tend to have a good handle on the game as a wolf and I generally know what to say. I can bus, I can defend, I can do most of that stuff. I've strategized mechanically as well, and I have some pretty good wins. I generally feel more confident as a wolf - not only is it my preferred alignment, but I also feel like I actually know what I'm doing, and this is important because the one thing I want the least is being a hindrance to my team. I am never a hindrance to my team as a wolf, at least not these days. I used to be a terrible wolf, but I haven't been one for the last two years. In fact, I view my wolfgame quite highly, while my towngame is something I view quite lowly - though I feel like that's obvious from what I've said about both alignments so far.

https://www.fortressoflies.com/t/pat...ay-5-3-11/3770

This is the game in question, which I consider my worst town performance ever. Just reading my first few posts should be pretty telling - I declare a villager the day 1 kill (the villager who ended up saving the game from being lost in MyLo), then I towncore a wolf and maintain that read for most of the game. I proceeded to push a lot of villagers later. I didn't even SUSPECT a wolf until MyLo, and I only really briefly suspected them based on some amount of instinct and the IC mentioning them as possibly wolves. I then tried to argue that the 2 living wolves weren't W/W and that one of them likely wasn't a wolf independently. It was really, really, really bad.

By contrast, I think my worst recent wolfgames weren't lost through the fault of my own. I definitely made some strategic missteps in those games, like not bussing hard enough, but I don't think I was at fault for losing and I think I played decently well. It's remarkably different from my towngames.

vulgard v

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vulgard

I'm not going to lie - I am a bit concerned about ladd as well for his post about Logic here.



Same idea as my AOTP concerns, just ignore the part about effort because ladd has barely posted. I don't like the confidence coming into this read, especially since it's a popular take and it feels like an LHF-y target if town. The latter part might be a bit tacked-on and forced in my part, which could lead me to confbiasing the slot, but the first part stands.

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Wtf did I write. It's ATPG, not AOTP. What... does AOTP even abbreviate?

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Originally Posted by Visor

vulgard v

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I did feel like posting that would make me obvious, that's the least I can do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vulgard

I did feel like posting that would make me obvious, that's the least I can do.

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vulgard w

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

vulgard w

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Okay, I laughed.

Aotp = Attack of the Pizza

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visor

vulgard v

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agree with this. I think his self reflection and uneasiness makes a lot of sense and I think that his expression of it is something that wouldnt necessarily be exposed if he were a wolf

I actually think Vul is V here and there's indications to me that Amy is. Which makes me feel really at odds with Pizza solving. Which normally doesn't happen this badly but it's early d1 and idk if I'm expecting too much.

Lemme get to a computer and actually outline where I am so people can judge these thoughts. Also coffee tell

read page 4 and 5 (on post 150)
kinda confused because it feels like there is a thread inside the thread or something

Logic slightly wolfy in post 121 and 150 imo tbh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cape90

Bet

Pizza - Probably for their townread of me + response to HK. Mayyyybe meta read on Monty.
Monty - No idea, vote on visor?
Hollowkatt - Probably for this towny sentence "did cape get got or did he swerve correctly after getting got"
Cape - Push on ATPG while ATPG was roleplaying and then retracting that and that being like a towntell. Haha get fooled!

Visor - Hasn't done anything noteworthy so far.

Ender - Entered the game insta voting someone you find towny to blend in? May hav e to do with your Monty read I don't necessarily get yet. Sheeping ATPG?
Taffy - Guessing they feel stilted.

I am so good at mafia gameplay and totally got everyone by suspecting ATPG "on accident" to get townreads as planned.

:cheerleader:

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i can probably unpair logic and cape here, me thinks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ampharos

pizza's manic energy is undeniably real and probably alignment nonindicative

his insistence that rvs won't end until people give reads on him is... odd, and almost somewhat passive in a roundabout sort of way. there are a billion ways for rvs to give way to Real Content, many of which include him giving reads on other people, and the implication that he himself will not be the one to give the read that ends rvs somewhat concerns me

based purely on recollection [i will NOT be doing research, do NOT ask me to] pizza does have a tendency to adopt a thread-protagonist persona as either alignment, but as villager i think it breaks closer to "i'll lead the charge" vs as wolf being "let's all do this together". his actual game-related comments thus far strike me as slightly leaning towards the latter

that said i kinda don't think i'm actually wolfreading him lol

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i think i will town read amy tbh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cape90

From what I have experienced with Pizza, I can say that a lot of the words you are saying are true in terms of Pizza's meta.

Pizza has not actually thrown out that many reads, but he does townread me

What would be "the read that ends rvs" what exactly does that look like? I am not sure enough people are here out of the 17 players to crawl out of RVS quite yet.

Also I hate the last thing you said in this post. Why all of the sudden do a slight backtrack on your thoughts. It literally contradicts what you said "but as villager i think it breaks closer to "i'll lead the charge" vs as wolf being "let's all do this together". his actual game-related comments thus far strike me as slightly leaning towards the latter"

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the part you hate is the part i like
i reckon amy as scum would be more careful in choosing her words and also not breaking the narrative of her posts. It is a weak town read but I have seen town do these sort of last sentences more than wolves, because it is such a thing wolves are paranoid town will wolf read them over tbh

hi boq!

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Originally Posted by Ampharos

the secret is that rvs is literally fake and ends at a different point for every player

i, for one, am no longer in rvs. perhaps you disagree, and that's fine!



mostly because vibes, with a side helping of "i'm stupid"

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this is also a townie response. There's no defensiveness, no caught with your hand in the cookie jar, though now when i think of it "with a side helping of 'I'm stupid'" sounds a bit like wanting a dumb tell/puppy eyeing the sus away. Still, I think I am overall okay with this response tbh

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Originally Posted by dyachei

hi boq!

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hello dya tbh!

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Originally Posted by Visor

Random aside - I don't think monty is a Wolfy villager, I just think people find it hard to follow his logic sometimes and then assume it must make him a wolf

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monty is my soul mate confirmed tbh

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

I have only made two intentionally wolfy moves so far. Everything else is just me as me as me.

Here's the fun part though.

I think we aren't aligned, you and I. Maybe it's the closed notebook. Maybe it's something else, but there was something I expected to see from you if you're town that I haven't already seen.

I don't want to push this yet because I prefer playing town/town with you and want to find you if you are on my side. (Look, intentional wordage to imply my towniness!)

But I have my eye on you friendo.

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"I have only made two intentionally wolfy moves so far. Everything else is just me as me as me." translates to inside my brain "actually, there are only two legit reasons to wolf read me rn, and i did that intentionally"

which is something i say too when caught for the wrong reason, as either alignment tbh
so verdict is out
but i giggled tbh!

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Originally Posted by Vulgard

That's a lot of reads this early in the game. Probably towny, though?

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Why do you think it is probably townie?

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Originally Posted by Boquise

Why do you think it is probably townie?

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Keep reading and you'll find your answer.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

It'sa me, Red Waluigi.

Waluigi is a very legitimate businessman. We're like family, capice? Some people I know sleep with the Cheep-Cheeps. Waluigi not judging but not his thing.



Accurate.

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this interaction feel like a bad rp tbh

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Originally Posted by Vulgard

Keep reading and you'll find your answer.

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all you have said on the matter so far is that you got a feeling or something, and then chased your mind. idk man it is weird

Okay so I've reflected and there's a decent chance my thoughts actually make Pizza towny, but I'm not going to hard lock him either way. He's too good to expect me to do that ever until I have something more solid.

To explain my worldview:

Pizza is always going to be a focus early for me. I love playing with him, and have done it a lot, and finding his alignment correctly is one of my favourite mini games because it's so fracking hard sometimes. When playing together we don't have aligned worldviews always but usually there is an "agreement on some things" that goes on.

Now this is where I've come into the game expecting something from another player and not seeing it. Which should not be wolfy but I have found myself wolf reading it a lot recently. It is something I need to be more aware of. Which is why I'm trying hard to re-evaluate something because Pizza made the F tier reads comment and it struck me that he was right. And I do know better.

The Expectation:

I thought Logic was wolfy in his early posts on a very level 1 Logic way. He's not necessarily an easy catch as wolf but I do find myself sussing his early game content in alignment with how I normally sus wolf!Logic. Caveat IS that I haven't played much with Logic as a whole recently and so I can't be sure how much this meta/feeling is outdated.

#121 - Feels like a casual "Pizza is doing things" statement, but the tacked on end of "I thought about doing this but didn't." feels directly appealing to Pizza. (Which I'm noticing on re-read and probably helps if I'm right on Logic wolf anyway.)
#126 - Fluff interaction eh
#128 - More direct appeals to Pizza with little other interaction
#132 - The "Man people are doing silly things and it fooled me haha." read
#133 - Wolfy Interesting? :3 Just joking
#140 - More Fluff posting
#150 - THIS is the post I scumread most because it feels like the classic "Omg you scumread x that I have said nothing about too? I didn't want to say it until someone else did" Wolves do because then they have a shield between themselves and blame when the person flips town. Which I'm more aware of because I think I'm town.
#151 - "Make up reasons for me." I did want to see what Logic's justifications were but have yet to, which was part in parcel for my position/pressure.
#194 - Pops in to say this in the middle of some growing pressure on him, but doesn't address any of that. Wolfy in the "Engages in sideways discussion for fluff purposes without engaging in the actual game side."
#221 - Then pops in later for this, a weird question (wolfy weird!) and still addresses not his own reads list reasons nor the pressure on him or anything else in thread.

This is all hallmark of Old Logic Wolf. Now I could see this as me relying on outdated meta and Logic's play actually has this as either alignment.

BUT others are also seeing this pressure.

And Pizza wasn't.

Now in retrospect "Pizza should see this and idk why he isn't" is a stupid read. Which is why I'm retracting it. But Pizza is a very good reader of Logic and to see him not comment on Logic, nor make any statements other than to sus the growing pool of people pushing towards Logic? Feels bad if I'm keyed into Logic as a wolf worlds.

Amy being same wavelength as me in a casual/meme-y fashion was a good look in my mind, and to find Pizza sussing us both was a weird sensation, which is why I broke my own statement to make the "sussy baka" post at Pizza.

I'll be honest, I regret that post. Not because Pizza sussed me for it. Or anyone else. But because he is correct in that I am making an uncharitable take and I have made snarky comments about that in the past. So I should be extending that grace to my own game if I'm allowed to snark about others. I cannot be mad at others for over-expectation if I do it myself.

Then Vulgard came in and sussed Logic as well and now Visor/spooge/Boq (Was there another? I now forget) seeing the same thing makes me feel more assured that I'm actually seeing something and not jumping at shadows.

So let me be clear. I think Logic is a wolf and will push that.

I feel like I had another reason I wanted to make this post other than just to explain myself in regards to my unfair treatment of Pizza and poke wolf towards Logic, but I don't remember what it was and I now have to get ready for work so eeeeeeeh.

Y'all get this.

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Originally Posted by Boquise

"I have only made two intentionally wolfy moves so far. Everything else is just me as me as me." translates to inside my brain "actually, there are only two legit reasons to wolf read me rn, and i did that intentionally"

which is something i say too when caught for the wrong reason, as either alignment tbh
so verdict is out
but i giggled tbh!

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I have been annoyed by this for a while. And yes this is 100% NAI because I can quote games I make this complaint as both alignments. =P

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Unsorted.

I love all of these people and am sad that there's on average 2+ wolves in this list.

https://i.imgur.com/IPJnUUM.gif

Me bracing myself for votes I won't like to make later on.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Please for the love of god be villagery so I have to redo my nulltown pile.

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