Converting Civilization3 unit animations

I've already went through 10 sets of animations, but don't have time to do more right now.

There is a number we definetely could use, but I have to ask another question - what about cavalry on horses?

Do we have space for that? There is a couple of nice animations we could use, but obviously only if those horses do not take too much space on a BIF.

Remember that for variety we still need what was present in PMTW 1.5 - especially with black and grey horses we can now use so only a couple of such animations would be enough.


We will have to test how much space it will take on a BIF - two per directory should be OK in my opinion.
6 such animations at the most, at least I don't think there is a need for more.

It is not to replace PMTW cavalry, but to add those few which are necessary.

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Originally Posted by cegorach

There is a number we definetely could use, but I have to ask another question - what about cavalry on horses?

Do we have space for that? There is a couple of nice animations we could use, but obviously only if those horses do not take too much space on a BIF.

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Cavalry on horses takes even more space that a pikemen. It's like Tatars in MOCOSCAV folder. Two, maybe three units per 1024 p file at best. Of course if you want to reduce the number of poses (like those Tatars) we can fit four. BTW you mentioned that Shogun animations have more different frames. Could you upload them? I don't have Shogun:TW.

We can try to create cavalry unit graphic without the horse.

Alright, here is the units I want to request:

Doppelsoldner, to see if I can do some improvement to my previous doppelsoldner graphic.
Heavy Landsknecht Pikeman, for the armoured landsknechts in PMTW.
Light Landsknecht Pikeman, for the unarmoured landsknechts in PMTW.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...7&d=1457095813

What do you think of them?



BTW, remember: everything like weapon, shield, armour, pose, colour, scale, size, camera angle, etc. can be edit and change in Poser.

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Originally Posted by zweihander

We can try to create cavalry unit graphic without the horse.

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Yes, we could, but I thought about a couple of animations which include interesting, different mounts (e.g. Berber Camel raider) or because I need one horse & mount animation for Balcan mounted infantry - just like with Dragoon units, but different.

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Originally Posted by zweihander

Alright, here is the units I want to request:

Doppelsoldner, to see if I can do some improvement to my previous doppelsoldner graphic.
Heavy Landsknecht Pikeman, for the armoured landsknechts in PMTW.
Light Landsknecht Pikeman, for the unarmoured landsknechts in PMTW.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...7&d=1457095813

What do you think of them?

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I wanted to propose them myself + the lansknecht arquebusier/caliver which is also very useful Possibly only for one unit, but so many factions use Landsknechte it makes sense to have this animation in faction colours.

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Originally Posted by Stazi

Cavalry on horses takes even more space that a pikemen. It's like Tatars in MOCOSCAV folder. Two, maybe three units per 1024 p file at best. Of course if you want to reduce the number of poses (like those Tatars) we can fit four. BTW you mentioned that Shogun animations have more different frames. Could you upload them? I don't have Shogun:TW.

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I doubt there will be more than 6 such animations we will ever need, but rather less than six.

I have checked and I do not have the original BIFs anymore. I've deleted STW years ago because I no longer use a DVD player in any computer and the game required one.

Mongol light cavalry just like any cavalry unit in STW was using two BIF files so death or shooting animations were not possible to include.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

I wanted to propose them myself + the lansknecht arquebusier/caliver which is also very useful Possibly only for one unit, but so many factions use Landsknechte it makes sense to have this animation in faction colours.

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I don't like the lansknecht arquebusier becuase he is wearing a breastplate -- they shouldn't wearing armour IMO. I want to make a lansknecht arquebusier with lansknecht light pikeman's body, and put it into the same BIF becuase of their similar colours. What do you think of this? And of course, we can add faction colours with Poser.

Ok, I get it, plus it makes more sense and saves space so go ahead.

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Originally Posted by zweihander

I don't like the lansknecht arquebusier becuase he is wearing a breastplate -- they shouldn't wearing armour IMO. I want to make a lansknecht arquebusier with lansknecht light pikeman's body, and put it into the same BIF becuase of their similar colours. What do you think of this? And of course, we can add faction colours with Poser.

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I don't know much about history of that time but I prefer historically accurate units. If armor is no good just drop it.

So far I cannot find a single animation of a foot archer which is using a sword/a sabre.

Would be useful for Moldovan mounted infantry as well as several other factions. Otherwise we'd have to keep the original MTW VI file.


Also, if there is a black-skinned hangunner (except Sudanese from later XVIIIth century) out there please tell me. One animation would be welcome for Moroccan Black Guard and Ethiopian hangunners.

Plus it would be nice to find animations for western lightly armoured infantry without a shield, preferably with a pistol.

Perhaps sword & shield armoured infantry but without a shield? There are several such animations, but I'd like @zweihander to choose
something for one of his favourite units.

It would be really great if a shield could be removed for some units e.g. Portuguese marines or genuine dismounted cavalry from XVI-XVIIth century. Pistol is a nice bonus allowing pretty cool fight animations (no sound, but say it is due to a small number of soldiers in a unit using a pistol at the same time).

Remove the shield or replace the shield with a pistol is possible. But you'd better to choose your favourtite Swordsman model, I haven't take a look of all of them.

I'm interested in adding a unit call 'Vortragschwerter'(ceremonial swords guard), which role would be a German version of palace guard or Guardia Tudesca, and only appear in the 1570 campaign.

Here are some reference picture, it would be great to make a unit model with the 2-handed sword weapon model and the body of Imperator's Landsknecht-heavy pikeman. Is it enough UNIT_PROD11 room to make such a unit?

And if you have already chose the Imperator's unit you want to request, please list the unit name, the link of its thread, and (better but unnecessary) the icon here.

Here is one example:

The Landcknecht-Doppelsoldner, Landcknecht Light Pikeman, Landcknecht Heavy Pikeman, Landcknecht-Arquebusier from this pack:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...2&d=1457186447

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

I'm interested in adding a unit call 'Vortragschwerter'(ceremonial swords guard), which role would be a German version of palace guard or Guardia Tudesca, and only appear in the 1570 campaign.

Here are some reference picture, it would be great to make a unit model with the 2-handed sword weapon model and the body of Imperator's Landsknecht-heavy pikeman. Is it enough UNIT_PROD11 room to make such a unit?

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What would be the year the unit shouldn't be available from? Which factions should use it, only German_HRE?

No, I think they would only available for the minor German states, rather than Hapsburg. They should be disappear since 1630 I think? This kind of unit is most popular in late 16 to early 17 century.

Ok, I think there will be enough space for this unit. I am planning to remove one or two, so it should be fine.


I went through all those animations and I'll throw a list tomorrow. Quite a lot of work and time but it will take even more for you to import it to the mod.


There are still some units I'd like to have, units which seem not to exist in the set.

A genuine eaastern european archer with a sabre - for Balcan, Caucasus factions and possibly for Russia.

A black skinned infantryman with a handgun.

A handgunner in a chainmail.

Something suitable for Gallowglass etc.



Still many holes will be plugged with these animations if suitable Poser files will be there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

There are still some units I'd like to have, units which seem not to exist in the set.

A genuine eaastern european archer with a sabre - for Balcan, Caucasus factions and possibly for Russia.

A black skinned infantryman with a handgun.

A handgunner in a chainmail.

Something suitable for Gallowglass etc.

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Could you post any pictures how those units should look like?

Balam has a Gallowglass model, I would try to ask him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

Ok, I think there will be enough space for this unit. I am planning to remove one or two, so it should be fine.


I went through all those animations and I'll throw a list tomorrow. Quite a lot of work and time but it will take even more for you to import it to the mod.


There are still some units I'd like to have, units which seem not to exist in the set.

A genuine eaastern european archer with a sabre - for Balcan, Caucasus factions and possibly for Russia.

A black skinned infantryman with a handgun.

A handgunner in a chainmail.

Something suitable for Gallowglass etc.



Still many holes will be plugged with these animations if suitable Poser files will be there.

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I suggest to forget those can't find suitable model units now, we can't count on imperator has everything we need. just list the models we are able to chose.

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Originally Posted by Stazi

Could you post any pictures how those units should look like?

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I wanted to look for them first. I think I have some of those.

We will see if Poser models are available though.

All right, it is even more time consuming than expected.


I will post it all in this place, updating the post.

I want to deal with each 'nation' in Imperator's packs, one after another.

This should give a better picture what does he have and hopefully a general view what we can expect.

@zweihander if you would be so kind to ask him about availability - please start with Landsknechte and possibly with something from my list.

I expect it will take three days to post all animations I am after.

I will use names of the pack the author used, same with the units, this should help him locate the models.

Let's start. I'll use GIFs with key animations (usually close combat) - click it to see the animation.


Egyptian V

Syria Auxiliary 17th C, Sudanese Infantry Mid 19th C

First for variety, second because it is the only blackskinned infantry model with a firearm which looks relatively suitable.

Attachment 17735

Attachment 17736

Egyptian IV

Egyptian Pikeman 16th, Egyptian Mameluke 17th

Pikeman for genuine muslim spear/pike armed infantry. Could be great for Persian pikemen from reformed army of Abbas the Great and Grenadan citizen militia as well as for other uses.

The cavalryman.

He is using a bow which is very useful, but there is another trick we could use with this (or any other) model i.e. place it in Camel directory which seems hardcoded to give combat bonuses when fighting in a desert and penalties when fighting in lush areas - could be excellent for african units which are not used to climate in northern Europe.
Just give it an invisible mount with the same directory and it could work. If not we will have another cavalry animation which is not a bad thing.

Attachment 17737

Attachment 17738

Egyptian I

Egyptian Archer 16th C

One of very few animations of archers who also use close combat weapons. Could be useful for very many units from several factions. One good quality is that it doesn't look too egyptian so can be shared with some factions in Europe.

Attachment 17739


Ottomans
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Ottoman I

Albanian Light Infantry 1820, Akinji Light Cavalry 16th C

Albanians are great for Balcan infantry from the south - Greeks and Albanians.

Cavalry gives another muslim animation. Could use Camel directory.

Attachment 17741

Attachment 17740

Ottoman III

Bosnian Frontierman Mid 18th C, Deli Light Cavalry 17th C

The Bosniak is just another model for variety and has a pistol animation perfect for pirates etc.

The Deli could be useful also for early hussar models, plus it has a nice javelin throwing animation which is rare.

Attachment 17743

Attachment 17742

Ottoman IV

Janissary 17th C, Janissary Archer 16th C, Janissary Grenadier Early 18th C

Elite Ottoman infantry deserves good treatment, plus the archer can be used for different units if the head is changed.

There is also a nice granade throwing animation excellent for several elite muslim units from late period.

[Attachment 17754

Attachment 17755

Attachment 17756

Ottoman V

Lybian Kuloglu Late 19th C

Another muslim unit. half clothed so perfect for various irregulars and units from Africa.

Attachment 17747

Ottoman VI

Tufekci Musketeer 17th C, War Wagon 16th C

The core of Ottoman infantry of the 17th century, plus a Warwagon animation which could hopefully be altered (Oxes instead of mules, different infantry etc)

Attachment 17753

Attachment 17752

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Originally Posted by cegorach

I wanted to look for them first. I think I have some of those.

We will see if Poser models are available though.

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I wasn't asking about those particular models. I was thinking about any pictures form the net, history books, etc.. Why? I've just learned how to extract models from Mount & Blade (together with animations) and how to use 3ds Max to take a series of screenshots for MTW animations. There are a lot of good expansions (With Fire and Sword, Napoleonic Wars) and mods: The Deluge, some Renaissance mods and even free OSP stuff like this https://forums.taleworlds.com/index....,327745.0.html . If you'd show me what are you looking for maybe I'll find something that fits. Of course, it's not as fast as models from Civ3,4,5 because you have to compose a whole soldier from parts like torso/armor, head, helm, boots, gauntlets, shield, weapons, etc. but it makes the system very flexible. I'm not fully satisfied with the results of the exporting process now but I'm sure I'll get better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stazi

I wasn't asking about those particular models. I was thinking about any pictures form the net, history books, etc.. Why? I've just learned how to extract models from Mount & Blade (together with animations) and how to use 3ds Max to take a series of screenshots for MTW animations. There are a lot of good expansions (With Fire and Sword, Napoleonic Wars) and mods: The Deluge, some Renaissance mods and even free OSP stuff like this https://forums.taleworlds.com/index....,327745.0.html . If you'd show me what are you looking for maybe I'll find something that fits. Of course, it's not as fast as models from Civ3,4,5 because you have to compose a whole soldier from parts like torso/armor, head, helm, boots, gauntlets, shield, weapons, etc. but it makes the system very flexible. I'm not fully satisfied with the results of the exporting process now but I'm sure I'll get better.

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I understand now, but I think we could start with those CiV3 models - always saves a lot of work if something can be found.

Besides this way only a couple of units will have to be made - you already have a lot of work with this mod. Frankly an astounding amount of work and this really can wait.

Also in some cases it is hard to define how a perticular soldier should look like - there are no sources I could use - so maybe similar Poser models could be altered. A different head is often just enough.

For example there is a very good Warwagon model in Imperator files, but it is for the Ottomans. If infantry models could be replaced with Polish/Hungarian style infantry it would be perfect for all factions using the warwagons in the game.

Back to posting GIFs...

Cegorach, please post a link of the thread on CFC. Posting GIF is ok, but not necessary, if this can save your time.

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Originally Posted by zweihander

Cegorach, please post a link of the thread on CFC. Posting GIF is ok, but not necessary, if this can save your time.

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I am using the names of the sets - isn't that enough?

GIFs give you (and me) better picture how those animations work and why I have chosen them and no others.

Besides uploading the files takes very little time.

Ok, that's alright.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

Also in some cases it is hard to define how a perticular soldier should look like - there are no sources I could use - so maybe similar Poser models could be altered. A different head is often just enough.

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Of course it is possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

For example there is a very good Warwagon model in Imperator files, but it is for the Ottomans. If infantry models could be replaced with Polish/Hungarian style infantry it would be perfect for all factions using the warwagons in the game.

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Not sure, but I think it is possible too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stazi

I wasn't asking about those particular models. I was thinking about any pictures form the net, history books, etc.. Why? I've just learned how to extract models from Mount & Blade (together with animations) and how to use 3ds Max to take a series of screenshots for MTW animations. There are a lot of good expansions (With Fire and Sword, Napoleonic Wars) and mods: The Deluge, some Renaissance mods and even free OSP stuff like this https://forums.taleworlds.com/index....,327745.0.html . If you'd show me what are you looking for maybe I'll find something that fits. Of course, it's not as fast as models from Civ3,4,5 because you have to compose a whole soldier from parts like torso/armor, head, helm, boots, gauntlets, shield, weapons, etc. but it makes the system very flexible. I'm not fully satisfied with the results of the exporting process now but I'm sure I'll get better.

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An intereting discovery! Could you post a picture of your achievement? Don't need to be the final result or something 100% perfect, I just want to have a look of this new method.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zweihander

An intereting discovery! Could you post a picture of your achievement? Don't need to be the final result or something 100% perfect, I just want to have a look of this new method.

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I'll post one with all parts glued together later. Till now I was just checking options and learning how to render properly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cegorach

Egyptian V

Syria Auxiliary 17th C, Sudanese Infantry Mid 19th C

First for variety, second because it is the only blackskinned infantry model with a firearm which looks relatively suitable.

Attachment 17735

Attachment 17736

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There is another black skinned handgunner in Egyptian I pack but doesn't contain any melee attack animation.

Attachment 17750

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stazi

There is another black skinned handgunner in Egyptian I pack but doesn't contain any melee attack animation.

Attachment 17750

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Yes, that is the main reason why I have not chosen this model. Plus the gun would have to be modified because it is from late XVth century. Both Morocco and Ethiopia would need something newer.

All right, Egypt, the Ottomans so actually the whole of Middle East and Africa is done.

I'll continue tomorrow.