A fan of justice, and in this case punishment as an extension of justice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
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A fan of justice, and in this case punishment as an extension of justice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
But don't you just LOVE IT when justice is punishing?Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Nevermind results, :cheerleader: PUNISH PUNISH PUNISH :cheerleader:
Except this isn't a domestic law. It was international action. So you can't easily repeal it anymore unless you can revert the damage. As we can't raise the dead I cannot see how other State Actors can be made to not play the same game.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
It is now a legitimate act of statehood to assassinate be it drone or radiation. There is no court requirement or innocent until proven guilty.
China and Russia can legitimately poison a dissdent or bomb a house. No need for a court of law to get involved as long as Putin signs off on it that is fine.
New game, new rules. Genie is out of the bottle.
If you really want a do over that would be nigh on impossible. It would require stopping the assassinations internally, a show of contrition, a very real need to prosecute those in the wrong and after all that international treaties with other nations to put this behind us all.
Until that point any regieme can use this new rule set.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
But I don't think RVG gets it.
Why would we want to revert that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
And I applaud it. We're not gonna drag every single enemy of the United States to court. They do not deserve that luxury.Quote:
It is now a legitimate act of statehood to assassinate be it drone or radiation. There is no court requirement or innocent until proven guilty.
We do not do that.Quote:
China and Russia can legitimately poison a dissdent or bomb a house. No need for a court of law to get involved as long as Putin signs off on it that is fine.
About time.Quote:
New game, new rules. Genie is out of the bottle.
I have no desire to see this end. In fact, the more of these people we kill, the better. International law gives me zero pause. Zero. I do not care. It is the duty of our government to strike at its enemies wherever and whenever feasible in order to protect our people and our interests. I wish I could convey just how little I care about what the world thinks of this. I wish.Quote:
If you really want a do over that would be nigh on impossible. It would require stopping the assassinations internally, a show of contrition, a very real need to prosecute those in the wrong and after all that international treaties with other nations to put this behind us all. Until that point any regieme can use this new rule set.
As for the USA turning into a police state and using these methods internally, it is my firm belief that Democracy is a self-correcting system. If the system goes too far, the people will change it. The power is vested with us.
It is first about us, then everyone else. We're not a charity, our interests come first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
Sure we can. We do not oppress our own people.Quote:
No longer can we point at countries like China and Russia when they do things that are obviously authoritarian. We don't have a leg to stand on.
Let them think whatever they like.Quote:
As far as the rest of the world is considered, we're just another big angry empire. :rtwno:
Laws get passed, amended and repealed every day. If the people decide that the laws are oppressive, they will change them. If the courts decide that the executive branch is abusing power, we will punish it.Quote:
And you're whole democracy being self-correcting thing... Care to explain a little more? The only way to self-correct for this is armed insurrection, and Americans just aren't ready for the realities of what that would mean.
If destroying evil is wrong, then I quite frankly do not wanna be right.Quote:
Thankfully, like Rome before us, its good to be on the winning side. But don't kid yourself into thinking this is all about freedom and shit.
wow...
I think that what RVG fails to see, is that he takes civilization back quite some.
Some of the steps that I am most proud of that humanity has taken, he defends trampling on for some ill-conceived furthering of his nation.
I don't get how he thinks, I'm not sure I even WANT to understand how he thinks.
To each their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaexz
These guys get it, because they read the news.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
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Originally Posted by rvg
You two don't - look up "Martin McGuinness" and "Gerry Adams", then look up "Northern Ireland Peace Process"Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
This ain't Northern Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
Get what? I would rather see him dead rather than pretending to sing americas tune. What's there to get?Quote:
You two don't - look up "Martin McGuinness" and "Gerry Adams", then look up "Northern Ireland Peace Process"
Or even more interestingly... Where would Gerry Adams be today, had he commandeered a group of IRA guys to hijack a jet and ram it into the Houses or Parliament.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
Then you will never solve half the problems you trying to end with drone's and whatever else yer building in groom lakeQuote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Then ye have never heard of these then
Brighton hotel bombing
Downing Street mortar attack
only pure luck meant the governments of the day were not decapitated.
Basically your answer is Gerry and the lads would still be running things in the North and the UK and Irish government would still have signed the Good Friday Agreement.
The Middle East is hardly different.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Think strategically, and who said anything about it being fake anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyblades
ExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
If Paisley and McGuinness can sit across from each other and hammer out a deal then pretty much ANYONE can.
Yup, that's totally the same scale as 9/11. And successful too!.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy
9/11 only worked because it was novel, it hasn't worked since - and they got the idea from American Tom Clancy anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
I have a name for you: Mountbatton
If HM Queen can shake McGuinness' hand, let alone be in the same room as him, then the American government can get behind peace in the Middle East.
Hmm so an an act of terrorism needs to be successful in order to evoke terror, despite all the fight them on the beech's rhetoric at the end they did a deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
They british in short had to sit down hold and sign on the dotted line, later everyone wonders what all the fuss was about.
The British have been trying to stop attacks on there homeland since the 19th century and they have failed until they talked
What's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
It's actually Battenberg.Quote:
I have a name for you: Mountbatton
Get behind peace? Sure. We're already doing that. Letting Osama breathe my air? Hell no.Quote:
If HM Queen can shake McGuinness' hand, let alone be in the same room as him, then the American government can get behind peace in the Middle East.
Actually it's you that has no point RVG the terrorists only need to be lucky once but you need to be lucky all the time. Sure if you can manage it try and bring them to justice but what then?Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
No he is right, they just changed it cos a Germanic sounding name might not be popular.Quote:
It's actually Battenberg.
Sometimes you have to, people are seriously talking about bringing the Taliban into government.Quote:
Get behind peace? Sure. We're already doing that. Letting Osama breathe my air? Hell no.
Oh, I sure do. My point is that Osama is dead and I like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy
It was Mountbatten though. Not -batton. If you want to impress me with a dynastic last name, at least care to spell it right (well, not you, him).Quote:
No he is right they just changed it cos a Germanic sounding name might not be popular
And sometimes you don't. I like the "wooing" produced by the hellfire missile. It's more flashy, delivers a stronger message.Quote:
Sometimes you have to, people are seriously talking about wooing into government.
Point taken on the strategic part but I was thinking about it personally; considering what I know: that he did it and was for years unrepentant, all signs point to fake, if he was genuine the only person who could be made to believe it would be himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
If I saw him wearing the american flag with a peace sign I might be glad he was destabalizing his side but I would not ever be able to believe it to be genuine, so I'd still want him dead.
I talking broader than that RVG and your are well aware of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Actually your the one bringing up the minutiae on last names trying to win the internet, basically he was blew sky high and the Queen still had to shake McGuinnessQuote:
It was Montbatten though. Not -batton. If you want to impress me with a dynastic last name, at least care to spell it right (well, not you, him).
The message you talking about is for a domestic audience, it does little to prevent terrorism.Quote:
And sometimes you don't. I like the "wooing" produced by the hellfire missile. It's more flashy, delivers a stronger message.
By the way your engaging in a zero sum game which is the surest path to disaster in foreign policy, remember your only supposed to have permanent interests thats how you know when you can talk.
The main question is what kind of world you all want to live in.
A "might is right" world, or a world accepting some common principles.
I for one prefer to live in a world where you need a trial to be sentenced, and where you wont get tortured.
RVG seem to defend a "might is right" world, where you don't need a trial for anything up to and including murdering someone, and where torture is ok.
For me, I find anyone opposing these basic principles to be the scum of humanity. But that's just me.
You can't kill an idea by killing people, that's the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy
And I'm not. The whole point of discussion in this entire thread is about whether or not it's okay to torture and kill really-really bad guys. That's it. And yes, it's A'OK with me. If it's not okay with you, that's just fine. You can be you and I will remain me. You're offering me your moral compass, which is something I did not ask for and do not need. I have my own.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy
I'm not out to change the world. Dealing with the problem one dead terrorist at a time is okay with me.Quote:
The message you talking about is for a domestic audience, it does little to prevent terrorism.
By the way your engaging in a zero sum game which is the surest path to disaster in foreign policy, remember your only supposed to have permanent interests thats how you know when you can talk.
You can. You just need the will to kill sufficient numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
Me I much prefer to solve a problem longterm, IF we can solve it by discussion then I am game for that, if we cannot well then that will just have to be fine too.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
It might be fine with you allright but your government has more than your feelings to worry about.Quote:
I'm not out to change the world. Dealing with the problem one dead terrorist at a time is okay with me.
BTW I didnt offer any moral judgement that's your own doing, interestingly your feelings mirror your enemies.
The altar of liberty totters when it is cemented only with bloodQuote:
You can. You just need the will to kill sufficient numbers.
Bingo.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy
So far my feelings are aligning with the actions of my government just fine.Quote:
It might be fine with you allright but your government has more than your feelings to worry about.
how is that working out for ye?? not too good I hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg