U.S. Ambassador and three others killed in Libya.

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

Man, I don't know. Not on 9/11. I don't think his superiors would approve of such a trip. They won't even let the military go out on normal, day-to-day missions on 9/11 in afghanistan without an additional level of approval by the big wigs.

But hey, maybe this guy was so loved in the community he felt no danger. As said before, there are some hidden puppeteers here, and they used the protesters as cover, I doubt the locals were involved directly in his death

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I'm pretty sure the ambassador is the HMFIC. You can't do :daisy: in country if he doesn't approve.

That would actually make the whole thing seem more dumb, per lack of planning.

He may have been responding to something of urgent matters, perhaps meetings with people who could not get to the embassy, and just didn't feel threatened. Complacency does that.

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

That would actually make the whole thing seem more dumb, per lack of planning.

He may have been responding to something of urgent matters, perhaps meetings with people who could not get to the embassy, and just didn't feel threatened. Complacency does that.

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State Department isn't big on security. Claims it stops them from doing their job or whatever.

Diplomats, social people with an entirely different culture. Just look at those idiotic tweets from the Cairo embassy.

@ Viking. I would agree that it shows professionalism. Benghazi is full of just that type of people. The second attack does show that it was going beyond mob violence. But it is still hard to know if it was planed or just a fallow on without more details. But it is the city in North Africa that sent the most men to Iraq and elsewhere so there are hardened fighters and terrorists.


@ Lemur,

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Originally Posted by Lemur

You know, we tried the tough-talking, "come at me bro" style for eight years, without great results. Bluster is not always desirable.

https://i.imgur.com/W55Nb.jpg

Furthermore, macho posturing is usually an indication of weakness, not strength. It's kinda like if you declare that you're cool, by definition you are not cool.

If you want to blame some of the current situation on President 44's policies, that's an argument to make, but your irritation at his tone seems petty, misguided, and misplaced.

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You know all I had in mind was for him to be a national leader and make the people feel like someone was in charge.

I ran this up while cooking dinner so it is definitely not polished.

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Two of our diplomatic missions in Egypt and Libya have been attacked by mobs.

They appear to be part of a religious cult who feel it is their duty to protect the name of Mohamed and were insulted by something they found on the web, attributed to someone living in the United States.

I say to them, America has always been a land of religious freedom and a land that strives for religious tolerance. But America is also a land where freedom of expression is guaranteed. And while the majority of people in this country may be reveled by some of those messages we must protect the rights of the citizens.

The people of Egypt and Libya are citizens of new democracies. Perhaps as yet they are unaware that democracy does not only protect the rights of the majority but must also protect the rights of those who may hold different views.

Insert first two paragraphs of Obama Statement here


I am raising the alert status of the two American Fleets in the area and dispatching additional security teams.

Insert remaining portion of Obama Statement here.

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There is nothing there that likely was not done or is extreme and war like. But I don’t even think the Republicans would have had much to criticize


What is petty, misguided, and misplaced is slavish dedication to a political line of thinking and the “your guy can do no wrong“ attitude.

It is not about politics, you know state craft is also part of the job.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

What is petty, misguided, and misplaced is slavish dedication to a political line of thinking and the “your guy can do no wrong“ attitude.

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If you are truly convinced that I am an Obamessiah Love Slave, incapable of independent thought, why bother responding at all? Not much point in debating reflexive party-line zombies, is there?

For my part, I'll assert that I do my own thinking, cite my sources, and show my work. I don't pretend to be an internet lawyer, and I generally leave "proof" to mathematicians, but my thinking (if we can call it that) is pretty much on record.

Your proposed statement is riddled with unconfirmed intel. What is this "religious cult"? Are you referring to all of Islam, thus inflaming the situation further? What if it turns out that there is no cult as such, but that it was a mob action? There's lots of unclear intel at the moment. The more specifics you insert, the more you might be proved wrong in a few days.

And why announce fleet actions just 24 hours after the assassinations?

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Originally Posted by Lemur

If you are truly convinced that I am an Obamessiah Love Slave, incapable of independent thought, why bother responding at all? Not much point in debating reflexive party-line zombies, is there?

For my part, I'll assert that I do my own thinking, cite my sources, and show my work. I don't pretend to be an internet lawyer, and I generally leave "proof" to mathematicians, but my thinking (if we can call it that) is pretty much on record.

Your proposed statement is riddled with unconfirmed intel. What is this "religious cult"? Are you referring to all of Islam, thus inflaming the situation further? What if it turns out that there is no cult as such, but that it was a mob action? There's lots of unclear intel at the moment. The more specifics you insert, the more you might be proved wrong in a few days.

And why announce fleet actions just 24 hours after the assassinations?

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Believe me, I don’t want to think of you as a political hack, but sometimes you do come off sounding that way.

Referencing the Salafis. Important name, try to remember it. If you had actually read about the attacks you might have run across it.

Heightened alert status dose not mean a fleet action. It doesn’t mean you are scrambling plains to bomb someone.

The is nothing there that was unknown to the public at the time of the statement. You are obsessing on intel but you can not always wait for it. If it is wrong later you have staff, you go with the best you have at the time.

Tried to find the one from the 11th but just have this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-in-Libya.html


If he is trying to avoid mistakes by not saying anything you had better have him start talking again because it s not working.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Referencing the Salafis. Important name, try to remember it. If you had actually read about the attacks you might have run across it.

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Hey, if you could manage to make your points without directly insulting me, that would be peachy-keen, and would save me the (seemingly pointless) effort of responding to the personal stuff.

If you'll look back through the thread, you will see that I was linking to as much primary material as anyone. So "if you had actually read about the attacks" is coming from left field. Secondly, why on earth would I not know about the Salafist movement and their Saudi bankrollers? And why on earth would you run about asserting that others don't know about a major religious movement when you do not, in fact, have any direct knowledge of what they do or do not know? It's like declaring that someone has never read a book. Much of the time, it turns out they have, providing great comedy all around.

And then you're on about what I should tell the President to do, since I guess now he's my love-slave, instead of me being his. Or something.

@Fisherking, if you want to debate policies and/or ideas, I'm game. But the personal assertions (and the necessary responses to them) are going to waste a lot of bandwidth.

Have a beer, or the relaxing beverage of your choice. Cool down.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

make the people feel like someone was in charge.

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He is in charge. Part of "being in charge" includes rating "doing something" higher than "caring about feelings". And it should also be noted that Condi Rice's said the first thing they did on the presidents staff meeting after 9/11, was to "find some maps and figure out what "Afghanistan" was". How's that for a response, eh?

I'm reasonably sure Obama knows that Libya lies between Egypt and Tunisia...

Also, I have to say that it never ceases to amuse and amaze me how quickly Lemur is put in the "hardcore left-wing liberal democrat supporter for life"-bin as soon as he says anything good about a democrat, or anything bad about about a republican.

He was at the consulate because he was participating in an opening cermony of a multi cultural center. Kind of an odd placement of priorities for 9/11, and especially so soo after a freaking civil war, but hey, we democracies love our cultural centers.

Arrests After Deadly Libyan Embassy Attack

Dunno if this was said already

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Originally Posted by rvg

So, how would you define that?

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Here you go: to interest oneself in what is not one's concern; interfere without right or propriety

You may also want to check your sources. Your two 'marines' were actually contractors who volunteered to be in Libya, as did the IT guy. All four of them volunteered to continue the farce.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Here you go: to interest oneself in what is not one's concern; interfere without right or propriety

You may also want to check your sources. Your two 'marines' were actually contractors who volunteered to be in Libya, as did the IT guy. All four of them volunteered to continue the farce.

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I dunno... Last I was in a brainwashing institution, when someone asked for volunteers 50 boots hit the ground simultaneously, mine included.

Salafis generally don't concern themselves with politics. I'd say we're talking about radical jihadis here, that are a group of their own. Linked to Salafism, but not exactly the same.

EDIT: Sometimes I catch myself being stupid before anyone else need to point it out :)

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And it should also be noted that Condi Rice's said the first thing they did on the presidents staff meeting after 9/11, was to "find some maps and figure out what "Afghanistan" was". How's that for a response, eh?

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Citation required.

I don't buy it, for the simple reason that the United States had been supplying mujahideen in Afghanistan during the Soviet war.

The two squishies were killed in the initial wave and fire. The 2 contractos, who were ex SEALS who were there to find and destroy shoulder fired rockets, were killed in a fire fight a couple of hours later.

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

The two squishies were killed in the initial wave and fire. The 2 contractos, who were ex SEALS who were there to find and destroy shoulder fired rockets, were killed in a fire fight a couple of hours later.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-54wAE7nJI

I for one am glad SEAL contractors were killed and not actual SEAL US troopers.

Admittedly DAMN hard to tell the difference these days.

Add EDIT: What is the difference? One gets paid by the state and have to uphold the Geneva convention... The other get paid by the state not to?

i have watched the video, and it is an unfunny version of monty-python pointed in a different direction.

NOTHING in it justifies violence against anyone, ever, not even if it had been commissioned by barry obama himself!

it only serves to confirm my culturalist prejudices, i'm afraid.

it is much to be hoped that another hundred years will provide sufficient time for:
a) islam to mature a little further
b) arab cultures to bring marriage of cousins down to western levels
in order that we might deal with these cultures on equal terms as adults.

the life of brian was a little shocking when it arrived all those decades ago, but the conservative-party-at-prayer* did not choose to burn down cambridge/oxford(?) in retaliation.

yes, this was an act committed by individuals, but it is equivocated over by societies, and those societies have to take responsibility for that equivocation.

* aka the anglican church of the time.

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Originally Posted by Hax

Citation required.

I don't buy it, for the simple reason that the United States had been supplying mujahideen in Afghanistan during the Soviet war.

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She says it in a documentary about 9/11 which NRK has shown quitw a few times. It's a rather good documentary, even if it's quite clear that it's sanctioned by the Bush administration(ie. semi-propaganda). As such, there's no "evil filmmaker" trying to screw her, nor does she have much of a reason to lie about something like that, so I accept it as truth.

I can try digging it up for you, if you want. Besides the quote, it's a good account of what Bush and his administration thought about 9/11.

Edit: I think it's this one. I'm in a lecture right now, so I can't check it, however.

Ow, in Egypt people who have culture are also marching towards the US embassy. Leftist people know, for a fact, that it is an arab spring

Cool pics though, monkeys rattling he cages http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...es-stones.html

edit, in Indonesia there is now also culture. Leftist people know, for a fact, that it has nothing to do with islam

@ Lemur

I am sorry Lemur if you felt insulted. I suppose I took your barb about petty, misguided, and misplaced more strongly than you had meant it.

In retrospect I should remember that people looking at events from the US do not have the same information as those living in other places.

I did not mean for the issue to be a political on. I simply felt that the statement made by the Whitehouse lacked any clear substance and did not do what it needed to do, which was CLEARLY outline the situation and response with some detail.

The information contained in my piece was only what was being reported internationally. Knowing US news, it was likely not reported there. To me it was not about Obama, it was about the President. They just happen to be one in the same. Note that I said nothing about the Egyptian embassy statement or Mrs. Clinton’s response.

My explanation of the news source did not explain that there were several other articles that laid out the situation with the Salafis more clearly but in hast and the lateness of the hour (here) I was unable to find them, so I gave you the one I could. The whole point of the salafis is to give someone other than the whole of Islam to focus on and not to allow public opinion to view the entire religion as the source of conflict.

I know that you have stated on occasion that you are a political independent, and I should except that.

In situations were someone sounds as though they are from the DNC it only means that their primary new source and from which they formulate their opinions is not Fox News or Talk Radio (RNC).

Would, that we all had a news outlet that truthfully informed us and took to task all political viewpoints in just that light. Sadly, there is none.

I suppose I am just too politically jaded. I seem to view all elected politicians as professional liars and pandering pimps to public opinion.

It was my own too high expectation of leadership and statesmanship in a difficult circumstance that led to my disappointment. Had I thought of it as election year politics I would have understood a candidates need to say as little as possible without making a mistake in dealing with an inconvenient stone in the road, and moving on to the important business of getting reelected. Something he did quite well, in fact.

I know American media is polarized so most individuals can not help being the same.

I am sorry if you felt attacked personally. I was over the top.


@ Hax

You could very well be right. What politicians in the west need to do is narrow the scope of attacks so the whole of Islam is not blamed each time a wack job throws a rock. Also, simply saying it was a terror act or al-Qaeda dose little to narrow that focus.

Meantime everything gets worse: http://www.examiner.com/article/leba...efore-murdered

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I dunno... Last I was in a brainwashing institution, when someone asked for volunteers 50 boots hit the ground simultaneously, mine included.

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Can I sig that?

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Originally Posted by Hax

Citation required.

I don't buy it, for the simple reason that the United States had been supplying mujahideen in Afghanistan during the Soviet war.

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You know why I don't buy it?

Colin Powell was SecState at the time.

So, maybe what she meant was, "Colin Powell took out a map and explained to us what Afghanistan was."

With regard to the crowd locating the Libyan safe house where the Ambassador was located

We have this:http://www.inquisitr.com/330504/amba...reports-claim/

And a much more vitriolic piece from this site:http://www.nowpublic.com/world/us-am...e-was-murdered



Could this possibly be true? It is not something I wish to believe. It goes much wider than US media if it is so.

I prefer to see it as an attack on the administration but it dose raise doubts and need to be looked into.

Also these:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012...re-his-murder/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012...staff-members/

I am not familiar with the first site which shows pictures and a now removed video.

The second site is the Washington Times which hosted the same video. While it is a conservative paper one would assume they would not be party to a hoax.

I am outside my comfort zone on this.

Do we assume it is a vicious hoax or a cover up?

Doesn't look dead in the first pic in the second link. Very very scared but not dead. our media are furiously screaming he choked but Imdon't think so

If it is a right wing hoax there will be a backlash.

If it is selective reporting I don’t even want to think of the implications.

You tube pulled the video but the other sites have not pulled the photos.

I would assume that if it were a known hoax, they would have done so.

There has still been no confirmation by the U.S. so far as I know as to the truth of the allegation.

It was seemingly a credible source, for first reports. I guess we will find out in a few hours.

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

i have watched the video, and it is an unfunny version of monty-python pointed in a different direction.

NOTHING in it justifies violence against anyone, ever, not even if it had been commissioned by barry obama himself!

it only serves to confirm my culturalist prejudices, i'm afraid.

it is much to be hoped that another hundred years will provide sufficient time for:
a) islam to mature a little further
b) arab cultures to bring marriage of cousins down to western levels
in order that we might deal with these cultures on equal terms as adults.

the life of brian was a little shocking when it arrived all those decades ago, but the conservative-party-at-prayer* did not choose to burn down cambridge/oxford(?) in retaliation.

yes, this was an act committed by individuals, but it is equivocated over by societies, and those societies have to take responsibility for that equivocation.

* aka the anglican church of the time.

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you need to read up on "the life of Brian" or better still watch the Documentary that was produced recently

while there were no acts of Violence the entire cast were inundated with mail threatening violence/death and the film itself was BANNED for quite a while

personally I look on it this way - in the West we have some of the best Police and Security services - the Religions over here are full of the same kind of nut cases you see in the middle east, they just cant get away with the same level of idiocy and generally don't follow through on their vitriol - reverse the situation and the life of Brian could have provoked just he same riots...

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

you need to read up on "the life of Brian" or better still watch the Documentary that was produced recently

while there were no acts of Violence the entire cast were inundated with mail threatening violence/death and the film itself was BANNED for quite a while

personally I look on it this way - in the West we have some of the best Police and Security services - the Religions over here are full of the same kind of nut cases you see in the middle east, they just cant get away with the same level of idiocy and generally don't follow through on their vitriol - reverse the situation and the life of Brian could have provoked just he same riots...

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Sure

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Can I sig that?



You know why I don't buy it?

Colin Powell was SecState at the time.

So, maybe what she meant was, "Colin Powell took out a map and explained to us what Afghanistan was."

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No idea if Powell attended or not.

Anyway, it wasn't the film I posted earlier. I've tried digging it up, but I haven't found it. I'll post it if/when I do though...

Germany, just saying, but your ambassadors in Sudan are being killed right now

So those idiots in Yemen (the ones protesting) are fine enough with all our Drone killings in that country, but they'll kill over a video?

What a bunch of violent moronic psychos. We ought to release films like this everyday until these idiots wear themselves out or accept that they do no get to silence people.

CR