U.S. Ambassador and three others killed in Libya.

[Major Robert Dump]

The two squishies were killed in the initial wave and fire. The 2 contractos, who were ex SEALS who were there to find and destroy shoulder fired rockets, were killed in a fire fight a couple of hours later.

[Kadagar_AV]

The two squishies were killed in the initial wave and fire. The 2 contractos, who were ex SEALS who were there to find and destroy shoulder fired rockets, were killed in a fire fight a couple of hours later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-54wAE7nJI

I for one am glad SEAL contractors were killed and not actual SEAL US troopers.

Admittedly DAMN hard to tell the difference these days.

Add EDIT: What is the difference? One gets paid by the state and have to uphold the Geneva convention... The other get paid by the state not to?

[Furunculus]

i have watched the video, and it is an unfunny version of monty-python pointed in a different direction.

NOTHING in it justifies violence against anyone, ever, not even if it had been commissioned by barry obama himself!

it only serves to confirm my culturalist prejudices, i'm afraid.

it is much to be hoped that another hundred years will provide sufficient time for:
a) islam to mature a little further
b) arab cultures to bring marriage of cousins down to western levels
in order that we might deal with these cultures on equal terms as adults.

the life of brian was a little shocking when it arrived all those decades ago, but the conservative-party-at-prayer* did not choose to burn down cambridge/oxford(?) in retaliation.

yes, this was an act committed by individuals, but it is equivocated over by societies, and those societies have to take responsibility for that equivocation.

* aka the anglican church of the time.

[Sir Moody]

i have watched the video, and it is an unfunny version of monty-python pointed in a different direction.

NOTHING in it justifies violence against anyone, ever, not even if it had been commissioned by barry obama himself!

it only serves to confirm my culturalist prejudices, i'm afraid.

it is much to be hoped that another hundred years will provide sufficient time for:
a) islam to mature a little further
b) arab cultures to bring marriage of cousins down to western levels
in order that we might deal with these cultures on equal terms as adults.

the life of brian was a little shocking when it arrived all those decades ago, but the conservative-party-at-prayer* did not choose to burn down cambridge/oxford(?) in retaliation.

yes, this was an act committed by individuals, but it is equivocated over by societies, and those societies have to take responsibility for that equivocation.

* aka the anglican church of the time.

you need to read up on "the life of Brian" or better still watch the Documentary that was produced recently

while there were no acts of Violence the entire cast were inundated with mail threatening violence/death and the film itself was BANNED for quite a while

personally I look on it this way - in the West we have some of the best Police and Security services - the Religions over here are full of the same kind of nut cases you see in the middle east, they just cant get away with the same level of idiocy and generally don't follow through on their vitriol - reverse the situation and the life of Brian could have provoked just he same riots...

[Fragony]

you need to read up on "the life of Brian" or better still watch the Documentary that was produced recently

while there were no acts of Violence the entire cast were inundated with mail threatening violence/death and the film itself was BANNED for quite a while

personally I look on it this way - in the West we have some of the best Police and Security services - the Religions over here are full of the same kind of nut cases you see in the middle east, they just cant get away with the same level of idiocy and generally don't follow through on their vitriol - reverse the situation and the life of Brian could have provoked just he same riots...

Sure

[Major Robert Dump]

you need to read up on "the life of Brian" or better still watch the Documentary that was produced recently

while there were no acts of Violence the entire cast were inundated with mail threatening violence/death and the film itself was BANNED for quite a while

personally I look on it this way - in the West we have some of the best Police and Security services - the Religions over here are full of the same kind of nut cases you see in the middle east, they just cant get away with the same level of idiocy and generally don't follow through on their vitriol - reverse the situation and the life of Brian could have provoked just he same riots...

Woulda coulda
But they don't

[Major Robert Dump]

I'm sorry but the man is not dead in the photo of him being dragged away. Dead people do not hold their heads up as they are being dragged. Furthermore, that is typically not the manner in which an injured person is assisted, being dragged like that while other take photos.


Dude was alive there.

[Sir Moody]

Woulda coulda
But they don't

as I said - reverse the positions and I bet they would - the riots say more about the societies these people live in than the Religion

we like to pretend to our selves that Christianity has "matured" but the reality is western societies attitudes have matured, not the Religion - actions of the radical Christians in Africa prove that

we don't see violent out bursts on the same scale over here simply because we as a people have come to reject them - in the Middle East they are the norm and that has nothing to do with Islam (more poverty, education and freedom of expression)

[rvg]

as I said - reverse the positions and I bet they would - the riots say more about the societies these people live in than the Religion

we like to pretend to our selves that Christianity has "matured" but the reality is western societies attitudes have matured, not the Religion - actions of the radical Christians in Africa prove that

we don't see violent out bursts on the same scale over here simply because we as a people have come to reject them - in the Middle East they are the norm and that has nothing to do with Islam (more poverty, education and freedom of expression)

How often do you see Lebanese Christian mobs running around killing people over a movie/picture/story/whatever?

[Goofball]

you need to read up on "the life of Brian" or better still watch the Documentary that was produced recently

while there were no acts of Violence the entire cast were inundated with mail threatening violence/death and the film itself was BANNED for quite a while

personally I look on it this way - in the West we have some of the best Police and Security services - the Religions over here are full of the same kind of nut cases you see in the middle east, they just cant get away with the same level of idiocy and generally don't follow through on their vitriol - reverse the situation and the life of Brian could have provoked just he same riots...

Banned, eh? That's pretty harsh. Were any diplomats murdered just because they were of the same nationality of the filmmakers? Did the Israelis storm the British embassy and burn it? Did the Vatican Swiss Guard go on a rampage and slaughter UK fans at the next England/Italy football match?

I've lived in the middle east. The security forces there are much more heavy handed and brutal when it comes to maintaining public order, and they are not hampered by the same pesky legal requirements to adhere to basic human rights principles like we in the west are. If they security forces in the middle east really wanted this kind of thing not to happen, it wouldn't happen. And if they really wanted to catch the people who did it, they would be caught. That will be the real test here: how well they cooperate with the pursuit of those responsible.

[Furunculus]

you need to read up on "the life of Brian" or better still watch the Documentary that was produced recently

while there were no acts of Violence the entire cast were inundated with mail threatening violence/death and the film itself was BANNED for quite a while

personally I look on it this way - in the West we have some of the best Police and Security services - the Religions over here are full of the same kind of nut cases you see in the middle east, they just cant get away with the same level of idiocy and generally don't follow through on their vitriol - reverse the situation and the life of Brian could have provoked just he same riots...

I did, and I know, and I still don't recognise a valid parallel.

Yes we have improved since, but even then society did not equivocation on the matter of violence, there was no permissive atmosphere within which lunatic plans could breed, rather thanremain as angry poison pen missives.

[Kadagar_AV]

I did, and I know, and I still don't recognise a valid parallel.

Yes we have improved since, but even then society did not equivocation on the matter of violence, there was no permissive atmosphere within which lunatic plans could breed, rather thanremain as angry poison pen missives.

What really scares me is... Is that the muslim world used to be above us.

Most of our understanding of Greek philosophy, is from Muslim sources having carried the torch of enlightenment throughout our dark age.

We, however, were "blessed" to have people like Galileo Galilei. Sure the church tried to shut him up, but his words just couldn't be silenced.

YOU intellectuals of the muslim world need to sit down and ponder: "where did it all go wrong"

[Fragony]

You can't read this but that is nonsense, the islam has never done anything other than feeding. Older civilisation that could do something, anything, were overrun and submitted to said islam. It pretty litterary means submitting. They still had a few books laying around and some muslims axing doors surpringly could read. It doesn't get any better than growing beards, blaming everybody, and shouting alluha akhbar.

[Ironside]

What really scares me is... Is that the muslim world used to be above us.

Most of our understanding of Greek philosophy, is from Muslim sources having carried the torch of enlightenment throughout our dark age.

We, however, were "blessed" to have people like Galileo Galilei. Sure the church tried to shut him up, but his words just couldn't be silenced.

YOU intellectuals of the muslim world need to sit down and ponder: "where did it all go wrong"

They did for about a century ago. It broke into two lines, the secular ones who ended up as dictators, and the more fundie line. They would need to do it better this time I think.

The tricky part about this, is how much of it that's propaganda and funneling of aggression. The start of it certainly are. Digging up some almost unknown case of insulting muslims, that can be fairly old and spice it up. That's a good question, what information are the rioters recieving?