Swords in the Moon [Concluded]

That poses a new argument entirely... well, this then could be a tactic for the high battle rating scum to challenge people occasionally or take turns. Who knows!? :wall:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

What do you think of stephen asen?

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He's a friend and I think this might be his first mafia game, so I'm not going to join a bandwagon against him without a good reason for suspicion. That said I haven't had the time to read the posts he has made so far, so I might change my opinion after that.

Upon looking at those posts, I think we will have to lynch Stephen sooner or later. I don't really have a gut reaction yet, but there's a good possibility that Stephen is one of the ninjas, so we might just have to lynch him quick and hope that we were correct. That said I suggest we keep a very close eye on Beskar as well.

Unvote: Abstain, Vote: Stephen Asen

After catching up with the thread, I'll have to join the bandwagon and

Vote : Stephen Asen

Just as a FYI, IIRC in sigurd's games the challenge rating was increased by +1 for every successful battle and at least in Midgard 1 even when you beat the weakest weakling as a god.
I think it was the same in Midgard II, whether Andres adopted this as well would be interesting to know, Sigurd sent people PMs about these increases.

That also makes me wonder where Sigurd is?

The things that Glenn and Sasaki have pointed out about Olavi's death make sense to me. If true, it would conclusively show that the ninjas and traitors are not allies.

[edit]If so, this screws up my attempt at connecting the night kills to various roles. I'll take another shot at it after N3.

Vote: Stephen Asen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AggonyDuck

That said I suggest we keep a very close eye on Beskar as well.

---

I made a good convincing argument, my detective skills are uncanny. :smash:

On the downside, Stephen Asen must really be hating me. :embarassed: Nothing personal, Stephen, I just noticed those set of happenings and it was the most convincing thing I seen myself so far in the game as clues to who some one could be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ignoramus

Still too little to go on for me.

Vote: Abstain
Challenge: Ichigo

Something about his accusation of GH doesn't sound right.

---

This makes no sense. :huh:

@Besker: I would like to point out that there are a few blanks in your accusations against Stephen, but seeing as there is nothing BETTER to go on, i will just Vote: Stephen Asen until something more decisive comes up :bow:.

We can only learn
from our mistakes in voting
not doing nothing

VOTE STEPHEN ASEN

For now at least

I have a feeling Stephen is the vigilante. But that doesn't make him anti town.

I'm also somewhat distrusting of Aggony and wonder why Chimpyang is silent again.

vote abstain

Page 20's table -


Stephen Asen 11 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, AggonyDuck, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Captain Blackadder, CountArach

Beskar 4 Stephen Asen, Kagemusha, Death is yonder, atheotes

Sigurd 3 Louis the Fat, KukriKhan, TinCow

TinCow 1 YLC
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Sasaki 1 Yaropolk
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo
AggonyDuck 1 Sasaki Kojir
Yaropolk 1 woad&fangs

Abstain 4 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir, Chimpyang


Argument against Stephen Asen and page 19 for more.

Ignoramus and myself abstained as well.

Such a bandwagon
is out of place as there is
no evidence yet.


Reenk-san pointed out my mistake. :bow:

I live to serve. :bow:

Announcement:

Kagemusha will replace Ibn-Khaldun.

:bow:

Well nothing suspicious I hope, I have had invisibility turned off so you can monitor when I'm on here.
This one's almost a foregone conclusion - however Aggony gives the impression of someone having to cut his losses when confronted with bad news.

Vote : Abstain for now

Thanks Andres for having me and Hello, fellow Bushi´s. I will go through the thread and then share my views about any suspects that might stick up, with their peculiar behaviour.:bow:

Vote: Kagemusha! Sneaky ninja-esque entrance, that. I bet it was you all along...



More seriously. Still very little to go on. But I am eying the bandwagoning...

Unvote: Kagemusha Vote: Sigurd

Awfully quiet - he retreats into a cloud of silence when scummy. Let flow thy words! Like the waters of a waterfall, it is not the flowing stream itself, but the mists from the fall that make the flowers on the banks bloom.
Or, it doesn't matter what anybody says, as long as they speak there is information for us.


Tally:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Stephen Asen 11 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, AggonyDuck, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Death is yonder, Captain Blackadder

GeneralHankerchief 2 TinCow, Ichigo
Yaropolk 2 woad&fangs, Sasaki Kojiro

TinCow 1 YLC
Beskar 1 Stephen Asen
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Sigurd 1 Louis VI the Fat

Abstain 3 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Night 1

Quote:

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Hour of the Rat.


Ii Naomasa (Khazaar)
While he was taking off his kimono, he heard a sound on the opposite corner of the room. He unsheeted his wakizashi and slowly walked towards the sound.

He didn’t notice the shady figure behind him, carrying a razor sharp katana.

The shady figure pierced the katana through Ii’s back.

Ii Naomasa had hardly noticed that the sword had pierced through his chest, when the sword struck a second time, decapacitating him.

The killer continued by chopping of both arms and legs of the already dead samurai.

After he had done what he came for, the attacker whiped his blade clean on the kimono of his victim and left the room unnoticed.

---

Quote:

---

Hour of the Rat

Takayama Ukon (spL1tp3r50nal1ty)
The veteran warrior nodded to the samurai who was coming to relieve him.


Without even a nod, Takayama turned his back to the young samurai and walked away.

The poisoned shuriken in his neck ended his life within seconds.

The young samurai walked towards his victim. “It’s not wise to turn your back to your enemy.”

He quickly covered the body with snow and resumed standing guard. It didn't take long before the real replacement arrived. The killer bowed respectfully to the other samurai. “I’m grateful that you finally made it. I’m off for a hot bath and a warm bed. See you tomorrow.”
After this words, he bowed and quickly turned around. The other samurai couldn’t see his face.

---

Quote:

---

Hour of the Ox

Kikuya (Lord Winter) took of her kimono and started to put on her make-up.

“Now, that’s a surprise!” a manly voice said.

Kikuya felt the wakizashi entering her lungs. A hard and well placed kick made her fall on the floor. The man watched her as she was suffocating in her own blood. He bowed towards her to take a good look at her face.

“What a waste,” he said, regret in his voice. The wakizashi in her throat, mercifully ended Kikuya’s young life.

The masked samurai left the scene unnoticed.

---

Night 2

Quote:

---

Hour of the Rat

Fujiwara Ritsu (The Spartan) He was quite happy not to have guard duty that night.

While he was taking out the bottle and looking for a clean cup, he didn’t notice the dark shadow on the opposite wall of the room. With one well placed punch, he broke the young samurai’s neck.

The ninja picked up the bottle of saké and left unnoticed.

---

Quote:

---

Hour of the Rat

Konishi Yukinaga (Iskander III) was standing guard.
Konishi’s thoughts were disrupted by the sound of footsteps in the snow.

“Hey!” a voice said loudly.

Konishi turned towards the sound of the voice and got temporarily blinded by the campfire. That was all the ninja needed to throw a sharp, poisoned throwing knife right through the samurai’s throat.

---

Quote:

---

Hour of the Rat

Uesugi Kenshu (Shinseikhaan)

But for now, he was still alive and he could still enjoy beauty. And so, he decided to go outside, because, contrary to his fellow samurai, he loved the cold, dark nights in the mountains.

While he was walking and enjoying the freezing yet silent cold, he didn’t hear nor see the blade that was being lifted. When it struck down, it seperated Uesugi’s head from his body, ending his life mercifully quick.

The warrior behind him cleaned his sword with the kimono of the fallen Uesugi and carefully left the scene unnoticed.

---

Quote:

---

Hour of the Ox

Watanabe Yumi (Olavi) entered his room. As soon as his head touched the cushion, he slept.

He didn’t notice the figure entering his room. Two strong, dark gloved hands grabbed Watanabe’s throat and broke his larynx. The knife piercing through his right eye, into his brains ended the job very quick.


The dark shade left the room unnoticed.

---

If not as of yet, within one or two nights a careful reading of the write-ups should yield relevant information. Note that the write-ups above are abridged, for ease of reference.

For my own administration, and for the convience of others, two posts:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seamus, 406

Andres' write-ups are not clueless, but there is little to go on. Nevertheless, I believe I am noting some small pattern regarding the killers:

Vigi-Sam Killer

I see parallels between the killings of Lord Winter and 'kkhaan. Both of these appear to be sword killings as of a Samurai in vigilante mode. Both targets are known players with several GR mafias under their belts. Also, both targets often lessen their participation following death.

I could be wrong and this could be a bad-guy doing the killing, but I believe this is one killer and he or she is killing experienced players of known skill but those who do NOT normally feature as early round lightning rods.

Butcher

Khazar's particularly gory death on N1 strikes me as the work of a SK. Both Samurai and Ninja were capable of lots of violence and beheadings were common, but hacking the taget to ribbons is excessive and betokens instability. No such killing occurred on N2.

Ninja

We have more than one of these, but I am not sure that they all were up to speed on day one. I get the suggestion of some being late with their orders and late to the game -- as I was -- so it might be wothwhile to query those who were inactive at first but active now. I fit that profile, so have at me if you wish. ALL of their targets have been relative newcomers or those with very low profiles (save for The Spartan, returning after a long absence). I am not sure it's as random as Tincow suggests -- just prudent targeting early while the big names and frequent posters lynch each other in the early rounds (as we all know happens pretty often).

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tincow, 504

The ninjas and the traitors are our mafia, likely two separate families. The powers of the pro-town roles remain unknown, but it's possible that some of them can kill at night. There is also the secret role which could be a serial killer.

N1 Deaths:
Khazaar - Killer repeatedly called a "shady figure." Decapitates target and wipes blade on kimono. Likely ninja.
spL1tp3r50nal1ty - Killer repeatedly referred to as a samurai, which would preclude the ninjas. Likely traitor.
Lord Winter - Killer specifically called a samurai, which would preclude the ninjas. Killer first attacked unarmed, then finished with a blade. Likely traitor. Worth nothing that Lord Winter was obviously a geisha, indicating that the town is down a power role right from the start.

N2 Deaths:
The Spartan - Killer specifically referred to as a ninja.
Iskander III - Killer specifically referred to as a ninja.
Shinseikhaan - Killer not referred to as either samurai or ninja, only "warrior." However, the killer decapitated his target and wiped his blade on the kimono. This is very similar to the N1 Khazaar death. Thus, likely the ninja killer of Khazaar.
Olavi - Killer not referred to as either samurai or ninja, only "dark shade." However, the killer first attacked unarmed, then finished with a blade. This is very similar to the N1 Lord Winter death. Thus, likely the traitor killer of Lord Winter.

Thus, we have 5 killers so far, 3 ninjas and 2 traitors. This matches the killing power listed in Andres' rules.

Ninja Larry: N1 - Khazaar, N2 - 'khaan
Ninja Moe: N1 - Did not kill, N2 - The Spartan
Ninja Curly: N1 - Did not kill, N2 - Iskander III

Traitor Dante: N1 - spL1tp3r50nal1ty, N2 - Did not kill
Traitor Randal: N1 - Lord Winter, N2 - Olavi

Two of the ninjas keeping quiet on N1 is not really remarkable. It is a common and intelligent tactic to intentionally refrain from killing. However, the failure of Traitor Dante to kill on N2 is interesting, as there are very few circumstances in which a mafioso will voluntarily not kill after he has started murdering. The usual reasons are (1) to make the town think he just died, (2) he didn't get his orders in on time, and (3) he was blocked. (1) is pointless this early in the game. (2) is unlikely since he was active on N1... usually people who are inactive as mafioso are that way in the beginning, not after they've already gotten involved in the game. That leaves (3). So, my conclusion is Traitor Dante was blocked last night.

---

Edit: forgot to add FH's useful comment!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FactionHeir, 522

My view on the killings varies a bit from yours.

My categories:
N1:
Khazaar - Serial Killer
spL1tp3r50nal1ty - Ninja
Lord Winter - Traitor

N2 Deaths:
The Spartan - Ninja
Iskander III - Ninja
Shinseikhaan - Traitor
Olavi - Serial Killer

So from my thinking, the traitor is experienced, the ninjas and serial killer are new players or TWC players.

---

Welcome Kage. ~:wave:

Unvote:GH, Vote:Ignoramus

GH is working on something for a PBM someone said. Igno abstained and then challenged me, which makes very little sense. Plus, he posted. I respect the SA wagon soooooo much I can't bare to defile it by jumping on.:bounce:

Quote:

---

Stephen Asen 11 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, AggonyDuck, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Death is yonder, Captain Blackadder

Yaropolk 2 woad&fangs, Sasaki Kojiro

GeneralHankerchief 1 TinCow
TinCow 1 YLC
Beskar 1 Stephen Asen
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Sigurd 1 Louis VI the Fat
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo

Abstain 3 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir

---

Louis, no comment on my classification? :tongue2:

vote: Sigurd

Quote:

---

Stephen Asen 11 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, AggonyDuck, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Death is yonder, Captain Blackadder

GeneralHankerchief 1 TinCow,
Yaropolk 2 woad&fangs, Sasaki Kojiro

TinCow 1 YLC
Beskar 1 Stephen Asen
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Sigurd 2 Louis VI the Fat, KukriKhan
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo

Abstain 3 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir

---

Just for reference, I leave the gaps in-between names if it is a different number. With the highest number at the top, etc. So for example, if you look at my updated post and Kukrikhan's, you hopefully will see what I mean.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

What do you think of stephen asen?

---

Sasaki - what made you think there is a link between Stephen Asen and AggonyDuck?

As it turns out there was. You've been asked this question twice and didn't answer either time.

Vote: Sasaki

Alright I'm just going to Vote: Glenn for the moment. Challenging his own cousin and fighting him just seems... strange... It strikes me as somewhat mason-ish to have two relatives in the game. I don't like masons.

Any thoughts on if we would be told if we had relatives in this game?

(Yes I am drawing a long bow, but I'm tired and just finished writing an essay. Give me a break :wink: )

While it is true that GH is managing a major PvP battle in the Throne Room at the moment, a good portion of that battle involves waiting 1-2 days for orders to be submitted. I can see the battle interfering with his posting while he's figuring out the results of a particular combat phase, but after the initial setup (which was completed before this game began) there's still a lot of free time to be had. For this reason, GH should not be let off the hook for his low post count. That said, my GH vote is not doing any good at this point. I will place it somewhere it will be more useful. That place is not the stupidly large bandwagon.

Unvote: GH
Vote: Sigurd

In retrospect... and after like 5 seconds of thought, my previous idea is moronic. Why would they kill each other as part of their goal?

Unvote: Glenn
Vote: Stephen Asen

Could someone please elaborate and tell me what exactly is the case against Stephen Asen? After reading the start of this game, to me two players stand up by far behaving most suspiciously. Beskar, who is fanatically protecting himself from any accusations, maybe bit too fanatically.

Also Sasaki Kojiro challenged Ibn-Khaldun with very light reasons. As if he had very little to be scared of the outcome. Sasaki should also know better that killing people in duels just for the heck of it only hurts the town.

Vote: Beskar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yaropolk

Sasaki - what made you think there is a link between Stephen Asen and AggonyDuck?

As it turns out there was. You've been asked this question twice and didn't answer either time.

Vote: Sasaki

---

Poor excuse for a retaliation vote...but no matter:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yaropolk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AggonyDuck

So do the battle ratings run on a scale from 1-10?

---

Not much to go on, but I wonder if AggonyDuck has a 9 or 10 rating. This could mean either he's either an assassin or a bodyguard, so I wouldn't want to FOS him yet, since he may be a valueable role.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stephen Asen, on Yaropolks profile page

It's not necessary to expose such things to public. I ask you to edit your post in the Swords in the Moon.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stephen Asen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Why did you want yarapolk to edit out post 488?

Sasaki

---

I don't know. If I survive I will have enough time to think over it. I think one of the traitors died that night (Olavi).

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Could someone please elaborate and tell me what exactly is the case against Stephen Asen? After reading the start of this game, to me two players stand up by far behaving most suspiciously. Beskar, who is fanatically protecting himself from any accusations, maybe bit too fanatically.

Also Sasaki Kojiro challenged Ibn-Khaldun with very light reasons. As if he had very little to be scared of the outcome. Sasaki should also know better that killing people in duels just for the heck of it only hurts the town.

Vote: Beskar

---

Beskar's case doesn't make much sense to me either. Seems to be relying solely on assumptions about when kills were sent in.

The above exchange weirds me out though...

Duels are fun, you should know that :duel:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AggonyDuck

He's a friend and I think this might be his first mafia game, so I'm not going to join a bandwagon against him without a good reason for suspicion. That said I haven't had the time to read the posts he has made so far, so I might change my opinion after that

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AggonyDuck

Upon looking at those posts, I think we will have to lynch Stephen sooner or later. I don't really have a gut reaction yet, but there's a good possibility that Stephen is one of the ninjas, so we might just have to lynch him quick and hope that we were correct. That said I suggest we keep a very close eye on Beskar as well.

Unvote: Abstain, Vote: Stephen Asen

---

Unvote:Yarapolk
Vote:AggonyDuck

Doesn't seem like him, and the exchange above indicates an in game connection to me. Especially stephen's "I don't know".

Challenge:AggonyDuck

Since Stephen will be the one lynched.

I agree that Duckie seems somewhat suspicious with his light reasons for getting rid of Stephen Asen also. Still about the duels. Each time a samurai dies in vain, that gives better chances for the ninjas to achieve their goals. So killing for fun is bit suspicious, even coming from Sasaki Kojiro.~;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinCow

While it is true that GH is managing a major PvP battle in the Throne Room at the moment, a good portion of that battle involves waiting 1-2 days for orders to be submitted. I can see the battle interfering with his posting while he's figuring out the results of a particular combat phase, but after the initial setup (which was completed before this game began) there's still a lot of free time to be had. For this reason, GH should not be let off the hook for his low post count. That said, my GH vote is not doing any good at this point. I will place it somewhere it will be more useful. That place is not the stupidly large bandwagon.

Unvote: GH
Vote: Sigurd

---

May I ask why you are voting Sigurd other than him supposedly being a lurker when scum? And not joining a bandwagon of course... but I've noticed that the votes for Sigurd come with not much reason thus far. Still, there indeed is nothing much to lynch upon at the moment... rather lost at the moment where to place a vote :lost:. Perhaps you three are starting a new bandwagon for the other 3/5 of the population who has not voted :clown:? I will wait...
Unvote Stephen Asen
Vote: Abstain

@Kage- Well, we basically have nothing at the moment, just attempts at understanding how the game is running at the moment, who is killing who, whether it be ninja or traitor, we're rather... lynch happy at the moment it seems, with little coming up and town jumping all over it, but we really need to make progress... we're not going anywhere these few rounds already, and we are already down a pro-town role. #Post 517, page 18= That is what started it all.

Reading it through once more, it sounds suspicious. Referring to Andres haiku, I only made the precursor that garnered his response in haiku form for fun. I know already that the night phase is scheduled to end at a fixed time. His third quote of Stephen has been interpreted wrongly after further investigation... Stephen's comment was purely based on our minor poetic/haiku theme in posting. Furthermore, his comment about the victim who would stop playing is rather scummy too. There are plenty others who are lurking/ away, why single out Olavi.

Furthermore, I believe that Andres wouldn't post the final write ups just after receiving the last order... I do not believe the host would provide such a blatant clue which would encourage massive profile watching. Rather, I think Andres would intentionally delay the write-ups. GH for one does as such in his mafia do discourage profile watching pertaining to activity near the kill times... at least I think so.

Suspicious behavior Beskar, you are either an overzealous townie searching for any scrap of evidence or a scum who has tried to provide 'logical' sounding analysis to mislead town.

As such, I will
Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Beskar

It isn't me. Yoshi-san, my IC person is too lazy to be a mafia-role. Complete opposite of me. (In the sense I posted a lot. Mainly due to I should be doing revision....)
http://www.quizilla.com/user_images/...3519803_8.jpeg
(Yoshi-san with his Strawhat)

Waste of a vote, putting it on me. If my argument was logically sounding and makes sense, then it does on its own merits, nothing to do with it being false. I only work with the truth.

With hindsight I'd say both my posts were a bit hasty. Due to your question, I did feel pressure to take a stance on Stephen and I decided to vote against him as I couldn't quite figure out how he had noticed that thing about Olavi's name. I also agree it might have been on light grounds, but that said I've slept only two hours this night due to an exam, so my mind is rather foggy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Mafia games would be really screwed if it relied on concrete evidence. Only an imbecile mafia role would actually give concrete evidence they are "it".

---

Misquoting is scummy :book:

Read Death is Yonder's post for why it's not a good idea to make assumptions about when the kills were sent in.


Edit: he edited that bit out


And Kage, duels are a solid pro town strategy as well as being fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Death is yonder

May I ask why you are voting Sigurd other than him supposedly being a lurker when scum? And not joining a bandwagon of course... but I've noticed that the votes for Sigurd come with not much reason thus far. Still, there indeed is nothing much to lynch upon at the moment... rather lost at the moment where to place a vote :lost:. Perhaps you three are starting a new bandwagon for the other 3/5 of the population who has not voted :clown:? I will wait...

---

I voted for him specifically because there were already 2 other votes on him. A single vote isn't likely to pressure someone into talking, especially not with an almost certain lynch via bandwagon like we've got going on now. The only way to put pressure on someone other than the bandwagonee in a day like this is to pump someone else up there a bit. Sigurd isn't talking. Sigurd has a couple votes. Thus my vote is more useful on him than on GH. The only other option was Yaropolk, but he's contributing more than Sigurd and I wouldn't classify him as a lurker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Read Death is Yonder's post for why it's not a good idea to make assumptions about when the kills were sent in.

---

Well, Andres said the deadline was at was on the half of hour. If no one submitted, he would have done it then. While he posted before he was still waiting for role people then posted 20 minutes before the dead, 10 minutes after Stephen would have popped him the message.

Could blame Andres for not sticking to the deadline, that is not my fault, rather the hosts. Naughty Andres. (I love you really Andres <3333 don't give me bad random rolls)

Sasaki duels can be a tool for both town and for mafia. If we assume that the Ninjas/ traitors have high battle values. Townie can identify one by sacrificing himself in a duel. But even in that case he might have found an anti town person, but just as well he might have got himself killed by swordmaster, whom should have very high duel value as well. In the conclusion sacrificing a townie for peculiar results seems not very powerful tool for the town. This method kills townies, which is a bad thing. Also in case a townie challenges a swordmaster and looses, it creates pressure to lynch a pro town role.

On the other hand, if we assume that someone who is anti town goes around challenging other based on light reasons, protected by his high duel value. For such person that strategy only creates benefit. First each dead townie is good thing for mafia and second if he looses to a swordmaster. His partners know who to aim for the next night.

Based on these things you are very high up in my suspect list, specially with you challenging again this round. It seems that you have high stats, because you are looking for challenges with much eagerness. I have serious dobts that you would play that way if you would be a swordmaster, because in that case you would become immediately an assasination target. Thus you seem more then scummy to me.

I have gone through the posts and there is nothing strong enough to point one direction or the other... for now it looks like Stephen is going to get lynched... not sure if there is a strong case or not... personally i am more suspicious of Beskar (it took him only one minute to post his last defense! looks too anxious)...
i am hoping that Sasaki vs Aggony duel takes place... the results might point to something...
:thinking2:

Vote: Beskar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Louis, no comment on my classification? :tongue2:

---

Sorry, the thread is simply unwieldingly large. I remembered reading some useful comments about working out the system behind the killings, but didn't quite recall where and of what nature.

I've added it in, thanks. :bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Well, Andres said the deadline was at was on the half of hour. If no one submitted, he would have done it then. While he posted before he was still waiting for role people then posted 20 minutes before the dead, 10 minutes after Stephen would have popped him the message.

Could blame Andres for not sticking to the deadline, that is not my fault, rather the hosts. Naughty Andres.

---

That does it.

Challenge: Andres. Let's test his worth in the only manly way possible. In battle. :knight:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Sasaki duels can be a tool for both town and for mafia. If we assume that the Ninjas/ traitors have high battle values. Townie can identify one by sacrificing himself in a duel. But even in that case he might have found an anti town person, but just as well he might have got himself killed by swordmaster, whom should have very high duel value as well. In the conclusion sacrificing a townie for peculiar results seems not very powerful tool for the town. This method kills townies, which is a bad thing. Also in case a townie challenges a swordmaster and looses, it creates pressure to lynch a pro town role.

On the other hand, if we assume that someone who is anti town goes around challenging other based on light reasons, protected by his high duel value. For such person that strategy only creates benefit. First each dead townie is good thing for mafia and second if he looses to a swordmaster. His partners know who to aim for the next night.

Based on these things you are very high up in my suspect list, specially with you challenging again this round. It seems that you have high stats, because you are looking for challenges with much eagerness. I have serious dobts that you would play that way if you would be a swordmaster, because in that case you would become immediately an assasination target. Thus you seem more then scummy to me.

---

I completely agree with your analysis of the usefulness of dueling. I have never seen it as remotely pro-town in any manner with the possible exception of an end-game scenario with multiple known mafioso. However, I've been in two other games with dueling: Midgard 2 and Settlement. In both of those games numerous townies fought or tried to fight duels. For whatever reason, dueling appears to appeal to townies even though it hurts the town. :shrug:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Poor excuse for a retaliation vote...but no matter:



Beskar's case doesn't make much sense to me either. Seems to be relying solely on assumptions about when kills were sent in.

The above exchange weirds me out though...

Duels are fun, you should know that :duel:





Unvote:Yarapolk
Vote:AggonyDuck

Doesn't seem like him, and the exchange above indicates an in game connection to me. Especially stephen's "I don't know".

---

Ok


Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: AggonyDuck

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Sorry, the thread is simply unwieldingly large. I remembered reading some useful comments about working out the system behind the killings, but didn't quite recall where and of what nature.

I've added it in, thanks. :bow:


That does it.

Challenge: Andres. Let's test his worth in the only manly way possible. In battle. :knight:

---

Monsieur wishes to challenge THE INFALLIBLE :inquisitive:

Come, come, I'll pretend like I didn't see that one and I'll leave the ligthning bolts and earthquakes stored in my basement for now :smug:

Silly humans :rolleyes:

OOC: It is rather interesting listening to everyone's reasons or lack thereof. There have been some impressive deductions (from my point of view) gleaned from Andres' write-ups (which are great BTW :bow:). It gives me an idea of what to look for. I didn't realize the game could get so deep.

Regarding player interaction, I've got mixed feelings. While the Vets can certainly use their experience to dig for evidence in what we are saying or not saying, or saying too scummily or too forcefully, it seems that they are hampered by their reputation from prior games. This meta-gaming knowledge is unavailable to us noobies, but I'm not sure I see that as a negative at the moment. The charge/counter-charge seems pointless as each side picks apart the words and their imagined meanings of the other. Pointless, that is, unless that is a game tactic to get someone talking in the hopes they make a real, and major mistake/reveal.

Anyway, there's interesting dynamics going on and I think I'm beginning to catch on a little. Maybe by game's end (assuming I live that long) I might - just might - be able to contribute something that, while impressive to me, will have been obvious to you all for two game days. :laugh4:

IC: <Sadako storms through camp dragging a rope behind her. At the end of the rope is a pair of sandals - bound...and gagged.>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Could blame Andres for not sticking to the deadline, that is not my fault, rather the hosts. Naughty Andres. (I love you really Andres <3333 don't give me bad random rolls)

---

The only reason you could get bad random rolls is if you had a role.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Sasaki duels can be a tool for both town and for mafia. If we assume that the Ninjas/ traitors have high battle values. Townie can identify one by sacrificing himself in a duel. But even in that case he might have found an anti town person, but just as well he might have got himself killed by swordmaster, whom should have very high duel value as well. In the conclusion sacrificing a townie for peculiar results seems not very powerful tool for the town. This method kills townies, which is a bad thing. Also in case a townie challenges a swordmaster and looses, it creates pressure to lynch a pro town role.

On the other hand, if we assume that someone who is anti town goes around challenging other based on light reasons, protected by his high duel value. For such person that strategy only creates benefit. First each dead townie is good thing for mafia and second if he looses to a swordmaster. His partners know who to aim for the next night.

Based on these things you are very high up in my suspect list, specially with you challenging again this round. It seems that you have high stats, because you are looking for challenges with much eagerness. I have serious dobts that you would play that way if you would be a swordmaster, because in that case you would become immediately an assasination target. Thus you seem more then scummy to me.

---

I disagree entirely. Now, if you really think that a swordmaster would not look for challenges then you must disagree with your own suspicions as well. Because we have multiple mafia factions, and to be revealed as good with the blade would make a mafioso an assassination target as well.

It's simple really: if you have good reason to suspect someone, it's a pro town move to challenge them. If you win, you remove a suspect (same as lynching) or kill a mafioso. If you lose you lose, maybe revealing your opponent to have a high score. With the mafia knocking off 3 or 4 of their own choosing every night the town needs greater killing power as well.

Of course...my ibn challenge was because of his namby pamby "watch out or I might challenge you!" post for which he clearly deserved to die ~D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

The only reason you could get bad random rolls is if you had a role.

---

Or fought a duel...though I still have my eye on beskar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I disagree entirely. Now, if you really think that a swordmaster would not look for challenges then you must disagree with your own suspicions as well. Because we have multiple mafia factions, and to be revealed as good with the blade would make a mafioso an assassination target as well.

It's simple really: if you have good reason to suspect someone, it's a pro town move to challenge them. If you win, you remove a suspect (same as lynching) or kill a mafioso. If you lose you lose, maybe revealing your opponent to have a high score. With the mafia knocking off 3 or 4 of their own choosing every night the town needs greater killing power as well.

Of course...my ibn challenge was because of his namby pamby "watch out or I might challenge you!" post for which he clearly deserved to die ~D

---

Well the problem is that it really doesn't reveal that your opponent has a higher score due to the fact that there is the random quality added to it all, so that a lower skilled fighter can kill a better one with luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

If you lose you lose, maybe revealing your opponent to have a high score.

---

This only works if we know the approximate duel score of the person who lost. Care to share yours?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I disagree entirely. Now, if you really think that a swordmaster would not look for challenges then you must disagree with your own suspicions as well. Because we have multiple mafia factions, and to be revealed as good with the blade would make a mafioso an assassination target as well.

It's simple really: if you have good reason to suspect someone, it's a pro town move to challenge them. If you win, you remove a suspect (same as lynching) or kill a mafioso. If you lose you lose, maybe revealing your opponent to have a high score. With the mafia knocking off 3 or 4 of their own choosing every night the town needs greater killing power as well.

Of course...my ibn challenge was because of his namby pamby "watch out or I might challenge you!" post for which he clearly deserved to die ~D

---

Swordmaster looking for challenges would be painting a big red crosshair over himself. Not exactly best way to do his job, which is protecting his lord. If townies would not challenge each other over light excuses, challenging, unless made under consus of majority would become scummy, thus taking a large weapon out of the mafia´s arsenal. I know you know better then what you are trying to sell here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AggonyDuck

Well the problem is that it really doesn't reveal that your opponent has a higher score due to the fact that there is the random quality added to it all, so that a lower skilled fighter can kill a better one with luck.

---

Given last nights duel, it's fairly descriptive. But yeah, I wouldn't trust them entirely. Information is possible though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TinCow

This only works if we know the approximate duel score of the person who lost. Care to share yours?

---

I'll send it to CountArach if it's allowed. Anyway...25 is the score I claim.

Quote:

---

Swordmaster looking for challenges would be painting a big red crosshair over himself. Not exactly best way to do his job, which is protecting his lord. If townies would not challenge each other over light excuses, challenging, unless made under consus of majority would become scummy, thus taking a large weapon out of the mafia´s arsenal. I know you know better then what you are trying to sell here.

---

You contradicted yourself and ignored the part where I pointed that out. Do you object to the death of either me or AggonyDuck?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Or fought a duel...though I still have my eye on beskar.

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(the bolded is the correct statement)

People are trying to pick logic from a man with multiple personalities and trying to pull assumptions from complete thin-air with no proof. As I already said, there are differences from myself and my IC character, so trying to gleam anything is pointless. Such as FactionHeir trying to say when I must have a role for a roll, when it was obviously talking about a duel.

Currently, only argument on here with any merits is mine on Stephen and as I said it isn't perfect, but it is far more accurate any arguments depicting me as a Mafia-role member.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Given last nights duel, it's fairly descriptive. But yeah, I wouldn't trust them entirely. Information is possible though.




I'll send it to CountArach if it's allowed. Anyway...25 is the score I claim.

edit: op doesn't specify, but I assume I can't.



You contradicted yourself and ignored the part where I pointed that out. Do you object to the death of either me or AggonyDuck?

---

I atleast object to my death as it means that the yashiki will have one less innocent man!

Page 21's table -


Stephen Asen 10 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Captain Blackadder, CountArach

Sigurd 6 Louis the Fat, KukriKhan, TinCow, Chimpyang, AggonyDuck, Quintus.JC

Beskar 4 Stephen Asen, Kagemusha, Death is yonder, atheotes

AggonyDuck 2 Sasaki Kojir, Yaropolk

Sasaki Kojir 1 LittleGrizzly
TinCow 1 YLC
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo
Yaropolk 1 woad&fangs

Abstain 4 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir


Argument against Stephen Asen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I'll send it to CountArach if it's allowed.

---

Not a bad idea actually. If everyone listed in a duel challenge sent their (claimed) duel scores to CountArach, we might be able to build something useful out of the results.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Page 21's table -


Stephen Asen 11 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, AggonyDuck, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Captain Blackadder, CountArach

Beskar 4 Stephen Asen, Kagemusha, Death is yonder, atheotes

Sigurd 3 Louis the Fat, KukriKhan, TinCow

AggonyDuck 2 Sasaki Kojir, Yaropolk

TinCow 1 YLC
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Sasaki 1 Yaropolk
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo
Yaropolk 1 woad&fangs

Abstain 4 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir, Chimpyang


Argument against Stephen Asen

---

You've got me listed twice on here - I unvoted Sasaki, and voted for AggonyDuck.

Btw, is someone keeping track of challenges?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yaropolk

You've got me listed twice on here - I unvoted Sasaki, and voted for AggonyDuck.

Btw, is someone keeping track of challenges?

---

Oops, fixed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

You contradicted yourself and ignored the part where I pointed that out. Do you object to the death of either me or AggonyDuck?

---

Where is the contradiction. You are just trying to defend untaneable position after being caught of anti town behaviour. Im not objecting anyones death in particular. I am telling you that challenging lightly is scummy behaviour, because loss of townies is not a good thing. Do not try to twist my words.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yaropolk

Btw, is someone keeping track of challenges?

---

Andres, will pick (randomly ofcourse ~D) one of the first four valid challenges that were posted.

Never played with Beskar before, but he appears to talk a lot, that means he probably have role, good or bad.

FOS: Beskar

Challenge: Beskar

Vote: Sigurd

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Where is the contradiction. You are just trying to defend untaneable position after being caught of anti town behaviour. Im not objecting anyones death in particular. I am telling you that challenging lightly is scummy behaviour, because loss of townies is not a good thing. Do not try to twist my words.

---

"If you were a swordsman, you would not paint a target on yourself, because one of the mafia groups would kill you. Therefore you are not a swordsman"

This was your logic. Now replace "swordsman" with "mafioso" and the same logic holds. Ergo, to claim that I could not be the swordsman but can be mafia is contradiction. Why do you say that duck is a townie? How can you claim that I knew what ducks score was?

I'm guessing he';s accusing you of being shinobi - which would suggest a detective role - we've had 2 night phases and 1 day phase - so the detective will have had time to investigate 1 person at least

I wish to hear more from Sigurd :

Unvote : Abstain . Vote : Sigurd

As has been noted, I'm currently busy running a PvP battle in the Throne Room, which takes priority for me in terms of the .Org. It's also around finals time for me in RL, which takes priority, period. I'm doing my best to keep up but I may have to ask for clarification/conciseness in the thread on issues that have already been fleshed out.

Challenge: Beefy

That said, what is the main case on Stephen Asen?

Unvote Stephen Asen
Vote Sasaki

I would ask my loyal samurai to change thier votes as well if possible..

That bandwagon is a huge conversation killing machine and quite easy to get behind, the main reason for that is its probably one of the better cases available to get behind, as there doesn't seem to be much going for anything else...

that said

Midgard 2 and Settlement. In both of those games numerous townies fought or tried to fight duels. For whatever reason, dueling appears to appeal to townies even though it hurts the town.

Dueling usually works out bad for the town... and you are very enthusiastic for the challenge... maybe not scummy but not paticularly helpful...

(that and spreading the votes out a bit more would help things...)

Im not too sure about the suspicion on Beskar.. the main reason i would suspect him is because is because he's making a fairly decent well thought out case... but that doesn't seem like a good reason to lynch him..

Edit: I also have to admit i don't like massively bandwagoning a new player on the 2nd round... feels a bit nasty..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quintus.JC

Never played with Beskar before, but he appears to talk a lot, that means he probably have role, good or bad.

---

Because when you have a role, you instantly try to not stand out by talking all the time, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Because when you have a role, you instantly try to not stand out by talking all the time, right?

---

WIFOM :bounce:

Because role-less people aren't playing the game, therefore they can't talk. Ta-dam-dush.
(Well, shouldn't talk anyway)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

"If you were a swordsman, you would not paint a target on yourself, because one of the mafia groups would kill you. Therefore you are not a swordsman"

This was your logic. Now replace "swordsman" with "mafioso" and the same logic holds. Ergo, to claim that I could not be the swordsman but can be mafia is contradiction. Why do you say that duck is a townie? How can you claim that I knew what ducks score was?

---

The priority for any mafia would be taking out the town first, loosing a member in the process is an expendible loss. If you are pro town, you should not have any desire to increase the kill count. Your encouraging behaviour that protects mafia is scummy. Are you indeed claiming to be a swordmaster?Where did i say that i was convinced that Duckie was a townie?

I said that i found Duckie suspicious, because of his light reasons for lynching Stephen. But for me your bloodthirsty attitude seems lot more scummy then anything he said. If you claim to be a swordsmaster who is pumping up his duel value by killing anyone crossing your path, then you are counterproductive to say the least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

"If you were a swordsman, you would not paint a target on yourself, because one of the mafia groups would kill you. Therefore you are not a swordsman"

This was your logic. Now replace "swordsman" with "mafioso" and the same logic holds. Ergo, to claim that I could not be the swordsman but can be mafia is contradiction. Why do you say that duck is a townie? How can you claim that I knew what ducks score was?

---

I think Kage means that challenges should be as seriously contemplated as lynching due to the fact, that if you get it wrong an innocent townie will die and that is a bad thing for the town. Dueling should only be reserved for moments when there are two very clear suspects, as it could kill both suspects or kill one and provide information of the other. I am certain of my innocence, so I definately see your challenge as a bad one for the yashiki, so I pray to the kami that our duel is not selected.

I am indeed insulted because it seems all of those who voted underestimate the intelligence. I always prefered lurking than taking part of this waste of words. It was a mistake to step out and say anything. Let's be silent sheep waiting for the assassins to find them. Anyway, as my destiny seems to be sealed, I will compose my final death poem.

To the people who vote abstain. The game leaves little place for this option. The traitors and assaissins are six people and their influence on the vote session is immense (esp. that of the ninjas). Better vote for the wrong person (like me or anybody you (don't) like) but don't stay idle.

I am still unaware of the reason I was picked out but if Lord Takeda wishes my death, I have no option but to submit. :bow:

+ I also find something indeed interesting in the way Beskar follows my downfall.

:bow:

While I am at it,

Unvote: Stephen Asen, Vote: Sigurd

Page 22's table -


Stephen Asen 10 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Captain Blackadder, CountArach

Sigurd 6 Louis the Fat, KukriKhan, TinCow, Chimpyang, AggonyDuck, Quintus.JC

Beskar 4 Stephen Asen, Kagemusha, Death is yonder, atheotes

AggonyDuck 2 Sasaki Kojir, Yaropolk

Sasaki Kojir 1 LittleGrizzly
TinCow 1 YLC
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo
Yaropolk 1 woad&fangs

Abstain 4 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir


Argument against Stephen Asen

You have littlegrizzly twice.

@kage and duck: getting a strong :wall: feeling here. The irony of you randomly voting sigurd and complaining about my challenge is a bit much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

Vote: Stephen Asen

:stwmean: Master says double his vote as default position. :bow:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng

After catching up with the thread, I'll have to join the bandwagon and

Vote : Stephen Asen

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Death is yonder

@Besker: I would like to point out that there are a few blanks in your accusations against Stephen, but seeing as there is nothing BETTER to go on, i will just Vote: Stephen Asen until something more decisive comes up :bow:.

We can only learn
from our mistakes in voting
not doing nothing

---

If you are going to pick up a victim without the good reason following suit of the others we will not reach very far. :bow:

I will obey the will of my Lord, but I will not give up to wipe out the shame from my face till I breath.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Page 22's table -


Stephen Asen 9 Beskar, El Diablo, LittleGrizzly, Gregoshi, Reenk Roink, pevergreen, Tristan de Castelreng, Beefy187, Captain Blackadder, CountArach

Sigurd 6 Louis the Fat, KukriKhan, TinCow, Chimpyang, AggonyDuck, Quintus.JC

Beskar 4 Stephen Asen, Kagemusha, Death is yonder, atheotes

AggonyDuck 2 Sasaki Kojir, Yaropolk

Sasaki Kojir 1 LittleGrizzly
TinCow 1 YLC
TosaInu 1 Thermal Mercury
YLC 1 Glenn
Ignoramus 1 Ichigo
Yaropolk 1 woad&fangs

Abstain 4 Rhyfelwyr, Ignoramus, FactionHeir


Argument against Stephen Asen

---

I think LG unvoted me. :bow:

I find it also interesting, Duckie, why you switched to Sigurd? Whats the case against him?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

You have littlegrizzly twice.

@kage and duck: getting a strong :wall: feeling here. The irony of you randomly voting sigurd and complaining about my challenge is a bit much.

---

Sasaki, you might have forgotten the fact that I play with integrity. I've been mafia twice, once being killed by a vigilante in night two and the other time in 'Interficio quod Scrupulosa', where I survived quite a while until you pressured me. I only claim innocence when I am innocent, as doing so otherwise would destroy my integrity. In 'Interficio' I never claimed to be innocent and I hated every second of being the bad guy. Hell once you pressured me I didn't even try to defend myself. I guess I'm one of those horrible mafia players, who doesn't play the game to be a cunning mafioso, but to solve the mystery of who the killers are as townie. Most people might have forgotten that you can count on my innocence claim, so I was planning to survive as far as possible before pointing out this fact so that we could narrow down the options in the end game.

As to why I changed my vote to Sigurd, by now my gut is saying that Stephen is innocent and I haven't heard a thing from Sigurd.

Stephen's defense strikes a chord with me.

Vote: Sigurd

Hmm, interesting discussion between Sasaki and Kage. I´m genuinely curious if this potential swordsmaster/ninja/traitor will be attacked during the next night.

But I guess if Lord Takeda wanted him dead, he would have said so.

Question: Is it a standard procedure in huge mafia games that one player (Kage) replaces another one?

Vote: Abstain

:bow: