ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

Giovanni Gentile approves.

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Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg

We should have become involved earlier - when the "red line" was crossed, we would have a much stronger secular resistance than we have today and we would have had clearance to attack Assad as well.

Hundreds of thousands are dead, millions are refugees. Countless others are casualties. This is as bad as it is because people didn't listen and needed to ensure that the price tag was higher before they became involved.

The world needs war. It seems to need huge amounts of killing. Its like a fever that we need in order to break the backs of tyrants. Tyrants on the medium scale like Assad, on the small scale like leaders in the IS and al-nusra movements, and maybe even on the large scale like Putin. We are humans, we are meant for freedom and war. We should harness this need to attack anyone anywhere who uses force to curtail choice or expression. Maybe one day we will get tired of it. Nobody is tired of it yet.

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Who is tired of what, just asking. Our enemies are allready here, by the grace and handshake of leftist immigration policy

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Who is tired of what, just asking. Our enemies are allready here, by the grace and handshake of leftist immigration policy

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Yes, and because of this we are living in a warzone with daily bomb attacks on every corner.

No, wait. We don't.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Interesting position. Please, do elaborate, dawg. Why does the world need war? Why is your interpretation of social Darwinism any less repugnant than some better known ones I'll refrain from mentioning (not because I don't want to, but because you seem to be paraphrasing liberally on your own...) ...? Why do you think if we'd intervened earlier it would have been better? Surely if we had the political means to intervene meaningfully then, we also have the means to do so now, and did in 2003, and 2001. Its a square peg in a round hole, man. All the intervention is going to do is kill some bad guys and stir up the hornets' nest some more. I'd like to be wrong, though.

:2thumbsup:

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I don't know why we love it so much. Why do squirrels collect nuts? We love conflict and competition. I think this love, combined with the fact that war solves problems like nothing else can (even though it creates new ones on a massive scale)

We have dueling desires. On the one hand, collateral damage deeply disturbs us. On the other hand, there is really no end to how many innocent people might die in order for us to eviscerate our enemies.

Anyway, I am in favor of an endless series of wars that uses the treasure of western economies to destabilize and destroy the worst offenders around the globe. I view these situations as "our business" and people everywhere as my people. I would support war against Assad if he was a republican warlord in the midwestern US and I support it in Syria, where my fellow human beings live. We share a culture, history, genes, and a future. Their lives are being destroyed and I would like to spend my tax dollars fighting along side them. Of course, structural global charity and economic openness is a bigger part of the solution, but nothing satisfies like lobbing ordinance into a small room of fascists and picking off the ones who escape, right? If we can join them for the long slog, we might as well join them for the party and fireworks.

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Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg

I don't know why we love it so much. Why do squirrels collect nuts? We love conflict and competition. I think this love, combined with the fact that war solves problems like nothing else can (even though it creates new ones on a massive scale)

We have dueling desires. On the one hand, collateral damage deeply disturbs us. On the other hand, there is really no end to how many innocent people might die in order for us to eviscerate our enemies.

Anyway, I am in favor of an endless series of wars that uses the treasure of western economies to destabilize and destroy the worst offenders around the globe. I view these situations as "our business" and people everywhere as my people. I would support war against Assad if he was a republican warlord in the midwestern US and I support it in Syria, where my fellow human beings live. We share a culture, history, genes, and a future. Their lives are being destroyed and I would like to spend my tax dollars fighting along side them. Of course, structural global charity and economic openness is a bigger part of the solution, but nothing satisfies like lobbing ordinance into a small room of fascists and picking off the ones who escape, right? If we can join them for the long slog, we might as well join them for the party and fireworks.

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You favour destabilising your allies as well.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

You favour destabilising your allies as well.

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I do, however we can do it with kid gloves on. I am happy that Mubarak's regime collapsed, if that's what you're asking.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

I keep having this stray thought that ISIS is a Kurdish plot.

I know this is NOT the case....such things are the silly plots of barely plausible novels.

But ISIS must be met by boots on the ground and the only force, so far, that seems to be willing, positioned, and disciplined enough to do so are the peshmurgah chaps.

All of which earns the Kurds hero points....exactly at a time when Iraq seems too fragmented to work anyway.

It almost seems like ISIS was tailor-made as a way for Kurds to "prove" themselves on an international stage and beget greater autonomy, or even independence if this latest Iraqi coalition government degenerates.

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And the mastermind behind is all is our own resident Kurd who will become the leader of the new Kurdistan.
Now that would be one awesome novel. Let's come up with a good title for it. Something involving, Kurds, Total War, Europa Barbarorum and Conspiracies.
:hide:

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Originally Posted by rajpoot

And the mastermind behind is all is our own resident Kurd who will become the leader of the new Kurdistan.
Now that would be one awesome novel. Let's come up with a good title for it. Something involving, Kurds, Total War, Europa Barbarorum and Conspiracies.
:hide:

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TotalEurope KurdishBarbarianWarConspiracy Invasion.

Has a nice ring to it.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

I keep having this stray thought that ISIS is a Kurdish plot.

I know this is NOT the case....such things are the silly plots of barely plausible novels.

But ISIS must be met by boots on the ground and the only force, so far, that seems to be willing, positioned, and disciplined enough to do so are the peshmurgah chaps.

All of which earns the Kurds hero points....exactly at a time when Iraq seems too fragmented to work anyway.

It almost seems like ISIS was tailor-made as a way for Kurds to "prove" themselves on an international stage and beget greater autonomy, or even independence if this latest Iraqi coalition government degenerates.

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The Kurds have been willing and organized for pretty much all time. However, it's only now that the surrounding environment has elad to them actually having a chance to fight back successfully. Fight Saddam and the Iraq army? No chance.

Fight ISIS on your home turf... Now we start to talk about actual liberation chance. One of the guys from my platoon went straight from the army to fight for Kurdistan, this was already back in 2001. They have skilled personnel and willing fighters, and now they have the chance to use them on more fair terms.

I would be surprised had the Kurds NOT risen. I also of course think there is no need for the tinfoil at this stage :stare:

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Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg

I do, however we can do it with kid gloves on. I am happy that Mubarak's regime collapsed, if that's what you're asking.

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You'd have been even happier had the UK fallen apart as well.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

You'd have been even happier had the UK fallen apart as well.

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I'm not sure about that. The UK is a great ally. Dev max is different from civil war. I don't think any western country needs a violent confrontation at all. I was talking about our Saudi and other regional alies in particular. I am hopeful that their autocracy will have a more controlled and planned dissolution, under the constant friendly pressure of their western friends and allies, of course.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

You'd have been even happier had the UK fallen apart as well.

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I love the smell of cross brits in the morning...

Instead of looking at various conspiracies involving ISIS and the Kurds I would look no further than American domestic policy.
The situation supports the American preferred mode of social welfare (defense spending) gives moderate support to oil prices when the world is awash (and the US is looking to sell) is a convenient threat narrative deflecting attention from real social spending priorities.
Conspiracy!? Who needs it when there are ample real reasons.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

You favour destabilising your allies as well.

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No, we do not favor it. We're just ham-handed enough and Bull-in-a-china-shop subtle enough to accomplish the destabilization anyway.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

What the frak are you talking about, Dawg? Since when are you such a nihilist? Either you've totally lost it, or you've decided to abandon any and all subtlety in your trolling.

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What nihilism? I've just said that everyone should be concerned with everyone else. Saying that humans are also naturally obsessed with killing one another is just acknowledging truth. Not nihilism. I don't believe in a God that has a problem with Just killing, even on a massive scale. I also don't think that war has any relationship with compassion. Everyone dies, when they die for something it is better than living for nothing.

I like people and want them to be free to do what they want. People like Assad, IS, and al-Nusra; in violently denying others that right, kindly provide us with targets on which to focus our natural, and hopefully Just bloodlust. We should send them a thank you card.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

No, we do not favor it. We're just ham-handed enough and Bull-in-a-china-shop subtle enough to accomplish the destabilization anyway.

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The you in that instance was singular and directed. Greyblades explained well enough the mentality behind it.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

The you in that instance was singular and directed. Greyblades explained well enough the mentality behind it.

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Fair enough. I still stand by my estimate of our foreign policy effectiveness with our allies. I would prefer it if more US political leaders interpreted the phrase "special relationship" as referring to a partnering choice rather than seeing the words "discount price."

Something positive comming out of IS? Even Al Quaeda is saying chill the fuck up, but now also a lot of (supposedly) highly influentual clerics.

Actually (at least here) clerics have been calling for support against radical groups for quite some time.
The latest manifestation of support is a handy-dandy bathroom book:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...sque-1.2781062

Its taken officials a long time to take the issue seriously, I only hope they're taking real measures behind the scene.

We've heard all the stories about Western jihadis going to fight with extremist groups.

But, as my Kurdish friend has brought to my attention, it looks like some Westerners might now by going to fight against them. An American ex-Marine appears to have joined Kurdish forces to fight against ISIS. He also has a facebook page.

Hi Facebook page lists Warhammer 40k: Eternal Crusade as one of his "Games and Apps". :inquisitive:

He also looks like a stereotypical killer-super-marine-guy from a movie or TV series.
And I wonder what made him go there and do that if it wasn't the idea of eternal crusade.

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Originally Posted by Husar

Hi Facebook page lists Warhammer 40k: Eternal Crusade as one of his "Games and Apps". :inquisitive:

He also looks like a stereotypical killer-super-marine-guy from a movie or TV series.
And I wonder what made him go there and do that if it wasn't the idea of eternal crusade.

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Not such a bad idea really. I stunned myself when I bought my first stun-gun because I just had to make sure it actually works (it works) so it's a bad idea, but I applaud him. Nobody deserves a straight face while knowing what cruelty is going on. We are watching a genocide and go back to work and wonder what's for dinner. Arab-spring cheermonkeys lost all interest since it turned out to be something completily different. Screw them so much, all real experts warned for this, but were laughed at.

Wrong as usual.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Not such a bad idea really. I stunned myself when I bought my first stun-gun because I just had to make sure it actually works (it works) so it's a bad idea, but I applaud him. Nobody deserves a straight face while knowing what cruelty is going on. We are watching a genocide and go back to work and wonder what's for dinner. Arab-spring cheermonkeys lost all interest since it turned out to be something completily different. Screw them so much, all real experts warned for this, but were laughed at.

Wrong as usual.

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Things like this have been going on for centuries and we often didn't even know about them. Why should I care more now because the internet makes the information arrive here a little faster than the salesmen on the silk road did? Not to forget that Assad has problems stopping them because the US supplied the rebels with weapons and the Iraqi army couldn't stop them because the actually somewhat decent Iraqi army with some semblance of morale was disbanded by eh, the will of god I think, after all GWB said god told him to invade Iraq so I guess it's all fine.

All societies have a background "loony" rate. Many of them want to kill the general public many want to kill other groups of "loons".

The more that can be facilitated to undertake "care in the community" abroad with hopes, dreams, and a second hand assault rifle who with any luck won't return home the better - rather they kill and be killed over there rather than undertake massacares over here - if the Oslo chap had been bough a ticket alongside those two persons who killed a soldier with a machete in the street the world would be a slightly better place.

The Foreign Legion is another great rehabilitation for past offenders who are slightly less loony - take all comers and at the end of it a clean sheet. Why on earth a criminal record precludes joining an organisation which practices killing people is beyond me.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Husar

Things like this have been going on for centuries and we often didn't even know about them. Why should I care more now because the internet makes the information arrive here a little faster than the salesmen on the silk road did? Not to forget that Assad has problems stopping them because the US supplied the rebels with weapons and the Iraqi army couldn't stop them because the actually somewhat decent Iraqi army with some semblance of morale was disbanded by eh, the will of god I think, after all GWB said god told him to invade Iraq so I guess it's all fine.

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Do I really have to explain why you are idiot, the political left exported millions because they usually vote leftist, bad idea no, now they don't know where to find a 99% white school. Look at the state Europe, especially in the UK and France. But also in Sweden and Norway. Once really good countries but now unsafe for women as they can get grabbed anywhere.

Get it through your head, muslims don't think like you do.

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Originally Posted by Husar

Things like this have been going on for centuries and we often didn't even know about them. Why should I care more now because the internet makes the information arrive here a little faster than the salesmen on the silk road did? Not to forget that Assad has problems stopping them because the US supplied the rebels with weapons and the Iraqi army couldn't stop them because the actually somewhat decent Iraqi army with some semblance of morale was disbanded by eh, the will of god I think, after all GWB said god told him to invade Iraq so I guess it's all fine.

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Do I really have to explain why you are an idiot, the political left exported millions because they usually vote leftist, bad idea no, now they don't know where to find a 99% white school. Look at the state of Europe, especially in the UK and France. But also in Sweden and Norway. Once really good countries but now unsafe for women as they can get grabbed anywhere.

Get it through your head, muslims don't think like you do.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Do I really have to explain why you are idiot, the political left exported millions because they usually vote leftist, bad idea no, now they don't know where to find a 99% white school. Look at the state Europe, especially in the UK and France. But also in Sweden and Norway. Once really good countries but now unsafe for women as they can get grabbed anywhere.

Get it through your head, muslims don't think like you do.

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You do realize that back in the days of entirely white europe, there were all sorts of contraptions for women to protect themselves from sexual harassment in the dark when the train went through a tunnel, right?

Yeah, those muslims are completely different to us.


And calling Norway and Sweden "unsafe for women" is just nonsense.

Males of practically all species on the planet - and indeed even hermaphradites - are sexually aggressive towards sexually mature females. Females in turn have adapted traits to reduce the rate of pregnancy from unwanted males.

Oddly enough, such traits have not been completely eradicated in the last 50 years in either gender - many young women want to appear sexually attractive and many young men want to act upon this, be that fighting off other males or making themselves attractive in turn.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

You do realize that back in the days of entirely white europe, there were all sorts of contraptions for women to protect themselves from sexual harassment in the dark when the train went through a tunnel, right?

Yeah, those muslims are completely different to us.


And calling Norway and Sweden "unsafe for women" is just nonsense.

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You are safer in a township in South-Africa, Scandinavian towns are rape-havens for immigrants, you know that but you don't want to say it because your religion doesn't allow it. Everybody knows that the rape statistics in Scandinavia are the highest of the world when it comes to the ones doing it. You can lie to yourself I don't mind. But I know better.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

You are safer in a township in South-Africa, Scandinavian towns are rape-havens for immigrants, you know that but you don't want to say it because your religion doesn't allow it. Everybody knows that the rape statistics in Scandinavia are the highest of the world when it comes to the ones doing it. You can lie to yourself I don't mind. But I know better.

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god Fragony you get worse as time goes on...

South Africa is no 1 most dangerous in the world for Rape - Sweeden is no 6 and the rest of the Scandinavian Countries are in the 20's - for comparison the US is 14th

and that only includes REPORTED rapes so unreported will throw things even further out

While Sweeden does look dangerous at no 6 the truth is they have some of the most progressive laws regarding Rape which means a lot of these reported Rapes wouldn't be considered Rape outside of Sweeden which throws the stats

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Do I really have to explain why you are idiot, the political left exported millions because they usually vote leftist, bad idea no, now they don't know where to find a 99% white school. Look at the state Europe, especially in the UK and France. But also in Sweden and Norway. Once really good countries but now unsafe for women as they can get grabbed anywhere.

Get it through your head, muslims don't think like you do.

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What does that have to do with what I said? Is ISIS raping women in Norway now? Did they invade from the sea or did I miss them when they walked through here?

I assume you agree with Lindsey on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAkfd7StBY4

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Originally Posted by Fragony

You are safer in a township in South-Africa, Scandinavian towns are rape-havens for immigrants, you know that but you don't want to say it because your religion doesn't allow it. Everybody knows that the rape statistics in Scandinavia are the highest of the world when it comes to the ones doing it. You can lie to yourself I don't mind. But I know better.

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lol

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

god Fragony you get worse as time goes on...

South Africa is no 1 most dangerous in the world for Rape - Sweeden is no 6 and the rest of the Scandinavian Countries are in the 20's - for comparison the US is 14th

and that only includes REPORTED rapes so unreported will throw things even further out

While Sweeden does look dangerous at no 6 the truth is they have some of the most progressive laws regarding Rape which means a lot of these reported Rapes wouldn't be considered Rape outside of Sweeden which throws the stats

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I'd not call them "progressive", more like "draconian" where accusation is almost proof of itself.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Husar

What does that have to do with what I said? Is ISIS raping women in Norway now? Did they invade from the sea or did I miss them when they walked through here?

I assume you agree with Lindsey on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAkfd7StBY4

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It's islam, simple as that. IS is just showing the world what the islam is, hopefully in time. Bedroomstory-moms, get a nap yourselsve. This IS islam. Somethingwe have been fighting for centuries. No the nice guy with the shoarma doesn't count, only the ones that laugh at any weakness we have. Result is obvious everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

It's islam, simple as that. IS is just showing the world what the islam is, hopefully in time. Bedroomstory-moms, get a nap yourselsve. This IS islam. Somethingwe have been fighting for centuries. No the nice guy with the shoarma doesn't count, only the ones that laugh at any weakness we have. Result is obvious everywhere.

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Which one of "our" weaknesses did they laugh at when they took parts of Iraq from the Iraqis? Our extremists are currently all leaving for Iraq to fight for their own extremist haven there, maybe we should just let them have it like we did with the jews and then they leave us to go there on their own if they don't like it here. Problem solved.

I've also heard that they are supposedly spawned by Assad, at least the guy from the Syrian opposition who was on the Daily Show from Monday claimed that. Of course he might also have his own agenda that makes him say that.

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

god Fragony you get worse as time goes on...

South Africa is no 1 most dangerous in the world for Rape - Sweeden is no 6 and the rest of the Scandinavian Countries are in the 20's - for comparison the US is 14th

and that only includes REPORTED rapes so unreported will throw things even further out

While Sweeden does look dangerous at no 6 the truth is they have some of the most progressive laws regarding Rape which means a lot of these reported Rapes wouldn't be considered Rape outside of Sweeden which throws the stats

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As any information consumer should be aware, there are three forms of prevarication (in increasing order of infamy).

Lies

Damned Lies

Statistics

So why are we still futzing around in the middle east again?

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

So why are we still futzing around in the middle east again?

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Because those missiles dont sell themselves. :yes:

[QUOTE=Sir Moody;2053619211]god Fragony you get worse as time goes on...

South Africa is no 1 most dangerous in the world for Rape - Sweeden is no 6 and the rest of the Scandinavian Countries are in the 20's - for comparison the US is 14th

/QUOTE]

i know that, that is why it's such a great thing to say. Numbef six, wow, almost seems like Sweden doesn't has a problem.

And we all know who does it, don't lie, you know

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Originally Posted by Fragony

And we all know who does it, don't lie, you know

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The rapists?

[QUOTE=Fragony;2053619257]

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

god Fragony you get worse as time goes on...

South Africa is no 1 most dangerous in the world for Rape - Sweeden is no 6 and the rest of the Scandinavian Countries are in the 20's - for comparison the US is 14th

/QUOTE]

i know that, that is why it's such a great thing to say. Numbef six, wow, almost seems like Sweden doesn't has a problem.

And we all know who does it, don't lie, you know

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Immigrants are in a clear majority.

In one of the rape categories.

The category which in 2012 consisted of 29 rapes in Norway. Out of 10.000 or something(1500ish reported).

Yeah, clearly it's dem dirty moslems who are doin' it. The top rapists in Norway and Sweden are.... *drumroll*

1. Daddy.(or uncle, or friend of the family, or that nice man who lives next door who is really good with kids, or - you get the point)
2. Me. (or male friend between the age of 20 and 40 who may or may not have sexual relations with the victim in the past)
3. The boyfriend. Current or recently ex'ed.

Sorry Frags, but kicking out the brownies won't do much. Yup, immigrants certainly do account for a slightly higher percentage of rapists than the average population, which is to be excepted as they come from areas where feminism is non-existent. But unfortunately for you, they are not a major factor. The undisputed top 3, the dad, the friend and the boyfriend, are usually ethnically Norwegian or Swedish. Which is unsurprising, as the vast majority of dads, friends and boyfriends are Swedes or Norwegians.

There is one clear difference between an immigrant rapist and a native rapist though: the immigrant is sent to prison. If I choose to rape someone, I won't go to prison.

I think the real question is why do these sons of immigrants feel isolated from a society that they were supposed to readily assimilate to?

Its strange that European migrants (Poles and Serbs, generally) don't seem to have a hankering for the old country like these guys do. Why is Muslim extremism basically negligible in America?

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

I think the real question is why do these sons of immigrants feel isolated from a society that they were supposed to readily assimilate to?

Its strange that European migrants (Poles and Serbs, generally) don't seem to have a hankering for the old country like these guys do. Why is Muslim extremism basically negligible in America?

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Doesn't that depend on a lot of factors? We do have some problems with the treatment of refugees and some immigrants, we had people migrate here who were working class while the US usually lets more educated, higher class people in. You're also not always on the friendliest terms with the working class people who come in anyway. And the Poles and Serbs who migrate to america probably love America even before they arrive there, just like a lot of the other Europeans who migrate to America because it's obviously a better continent from an objective point of view.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

I'd not call them "progressive", more like "draconian" where accusation is almost proof of itself.

~:smoking:

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With a 1,7% conviction rate (108 out of 6 320)? Cases going to court was 169, or 64% conviction rate. Normal conviction rate is in courts are appearently 95% (the selection evidently occurs earlier in the case process).

The extended definition of rape is eating into what other countries classify as sexual assult.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

I think the real question is why do these sons of immigrants feel isolated from a society that they were supposed to readily assimilate to?

Its strange that European migrants (Poles and Serbs, generally) don't seem to have a hankering for the old country like these guys do. Why is Muslim extremism basically negligible in America?

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A year ago or so I thought of moving somewhere else, and naturally I asked around about experiences of other people who moved to other countries. An overwhelming majority advised me to move to Canada or Australia, and a slightly lesser extent to US, and almost everyone advised against moving to some European country. They told me that whichever country I choose in Europe - Germany, Austria, Switzerland, England, France, Scandinavian countries... - I will be a second class citizen in that country for the rest of my life, and that, at best, my children will be treated as normal citizens.

With that in mind, I'm inclined to agree that problem is with host countries rather than immigrants.

In the UK from my experience as long as people speak English then things are OK. The less accent the better as a rule - but especially in cities there is a large percentage with an accent so it makes little difference. Note that a large percentage of persons who are born in the UK are second class citizens (at best).

Where do these people live who suggested Canada or Australia, and who warned off against Europe? Were most in Europe and hence disillusioned that everything wasn't perfect, and that if only they'd gone further everything would have been oh so perfect?

People who think the problem is the other lot and not themselves. Well, that's a shock! I'm amazed that the host countries aren't thrilled to have such a positive bunch; and finally - why have they not left if it is so horrible?

~:smoking:

[QUOTE=HoreTore;2053619278]

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Immigrants are in a clear majority.

In one of the rape categories.

The category which in 2012 consisted of 29 rapes in Norway. Out of 10.000 or something(1500ish reported).

Yeah, clearly it's dem dirty moslems who are doin' it. The top rapists in Norway and Sweden are.... *drumroll*

1. Daddy.(or uncle, or friend of the family, or that nice man who lives next door who is really good with kids, or - you get the point)
2. Me. (or male friend between the age of 20 and 40 who may or may not have sexual relations with the victim in the past)
3. The boyfriend. Current or recently ex'ed.

Sorry Frags, but kicking out the brownies won't do much. Yup, immigrants certainly do account for a slightly higher percentage of rapists than the average population, which is to be excepted as they come from areas where feminism is non-existent. But unfortunately for you, they are not a major factor. The undisputed top 3, the dad, the friend and the boyfriend, are usually ethnically Norwegian or Swedish. Which is unsurprising, as the vast majority of dads, friends and boyfriends are Swedes or Norwegians.

There is one clear difference between an immigrant rapist and a native rapist though: the immigrant is sent to prison. If I choose to rape someone, I won't go to prison.

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Yes there is a difference between home abuse and assault rape. ALL recorded assault rapes, hey let's grab the slut .Let's not even begin at about the position of their own women. Resorts here are absolutily packed with muslim women, and that are just the brave ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWWrpv-pbuc

All.

[QUOTE=Fragony;2053619325]

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Yes there is a difference between home abuse and assault rape. ALL recorded assault rapes, hey let's grab the slut .Let's not even begin at about the position of their own women. Resorts here are absolutily packed with muslim women, and that are just the brave ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWWrpv-pbuc

All.

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Yes, all assault rapes were committed by immigrants.

All 29.

Oh, the humanity!

Except that it wasn't all, of course, but that's a point for another day....

EDIT: Sorry, I mixed up numbers. 29 is the number of assault rapes in Oslo. The number for the entire country is 94. We are clearly worse than SA.

And of the 40 men suspected of or convicted of assault rape, 21 are "non-north European", while 19 are described as "north-european". Unless by "all" you mean "slightly more than half", the statement is utterly false. Or are you thinking of those horrible brits, comin' o'er 'ere rapin' our wimminz?

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Originally Posted by Ironside

With a 1,7% conviction rate (108 out of 6 320)? Cases going to court was 169, or 64% conviction rate. Normal conviction rate is in courts are appearently 95% (the selection evidently occurs earlier in the case process).

The extended definition of rape is eating into what other countries classify as sexual assult.

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The early 2000's massive bump in the number of reported rapes was due to reclassifying* pedo crimes as rape, IIRC.

*in the statistics, that is

[QUOTE=HoreTore;2053619330]

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Yes, all assault rapes were committed by immigrants.

All 29.

Oh, the humanity!

Except that it wasn't all, of course, but that's a point for another day....

EDIT: Sorry, I mixed up numbers. 29 is the number of assault rapes in Oslo. The number for the entire country is 94.

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Look away all you want, Horrie. The number is much much higher, Norway and Sweden are the rape-capitals of the western world. I have family in Oslo and they (daughters) are too afraid of muslim immigrants to go outside, especially when it's dark. It are always the same who haress them. That is the same everywhere but in Norway and Sweden it is rampant.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Look away all you want, Horrie. The number is much much higher, Norway and Sweden are the rape-capitals of the western world. I have family in Oslo and their are too afraid of muslim immigrants to go outside, especially when it's dark. It are always the same who haress them. That is the same everywhere but in Norway and Sweden it is rampant.

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I've lived my entire life in the areas you're talking about*, Frags, and your family is just timid. I regularly stumble up and down Grünerløkka(where Mullah Krekar lives/lived) shit drunk at 5 in the morning.

I note that you claim a number, but fail to back it up in any way whatsoever. Including giving a specific number. I am not surprised. Do continue living with your illusions.


*most of my life next to the "ghetto" in Drammen(Fjell) and 3 years in Holmlia, working the night shift

Sure Horrie, tell yourself that there absolutily nothing wrong with the mass-immigration of muslims. Nothing to see here move along. Kadahar probably has something to say to you but he doesn't like talking to you, he will say the exact same thing

And of course they are timid, they stand no chance against 4 grown men who are hissing at them

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Sure Horrie, tell yourself that there absolutily nothing wrong with the mass-immigration of muslims. Nothing to see here move along. Kadahar probably has something to say to you but he doesn't like talking to you, he will say the exact same thing

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This post contains a grand total of:

0 pieces of evidence.

Not even a low-def youtube vid put together by some blogger. I am disappoint.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

In the UK from my experience as long as people speak English then things are OK. The less accent the better as a rule - but especially in cities there is a large percentage with an accent so it makes little difference. Note that a large percentage of persons who are born in the UK are second class citizens (at best).

Where do these people live who suggested Canada or Australia, and who warned off against Europe? Were most in Europe and hence disillusioned that everything wasn't perfect, and that if only they'd gone further everything would have been oh so perfect?

People who think the problem is the other lot and not themselves. Well, that's a shock! I'm amazed that the host countries aren't thrilled to have such a positive bunch; and finally - why have they not left if it is so horrible?

~:smoking:

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I only repeat what I've been told. And that's the experience of Serbs, and other people from former Yugoslavia, which makes the problem only more evident. A Serb in England would go to work, preferably from 9 to 5, go have a few beers in the evening and go see a footy match on weekends. On Sunday, as most Brits, he'd worship sleeping longer. If it weren't for the accent, it would be quite hard to notice him in any way.

I can only imagine how much harder would it be for someone much different cultural background and physical appearance, like an Arab.

Countries in Europe tend to be still nationalistic. People won't assimilate if they don't feel at home. That's the difference between a European country and an immigrant country, like Canada, Australia and US.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Look away all you want, Horrie. The number is much much higher, Norway and Sweden are the rape-capitals of the western world. I have family in Oslo and they (daughters) are too afraid of muslim immigrants to go outside, especially when it's dark. It are always the same who haress them. That is the same everywhere but in Norway and Sweden it is rampant.

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Frag I already pointed out to you Norway is 24th while USA is 14th - stop harassing Horetore with statements which are so easy to disprove

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

I think the real question is why do these sons of immigrants feel isolated from a society that they were supposed to readily assimilate to?

Its strange that European migrants (Poles and Serbs, generally) don't seem to have a hankering for the old country like these guys do. Why is Muslim extremism basically negligible in America?

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I'd also wonder about the phenomenon of second generation jihadis. The first generation to arrive throw themselves into assimilation, and while they remember a past in a different country, they reject that in favour of a wholly British identity. The second generation, born and bred in Britain, reject what their parents have worked for and "return to their roots". Is it merely teenage rebellion with an outlet that's rather more unsavoury than most? See also the American phenomenon of plastic paddies, where "Irish-Americans" feel a need to emphasise their "Irish roots" to an extent beyond what people who actually live there would do.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

I only repeat what I've been told. And that's the experience of Serbs, and other people from former Yugoslavia, which makes the problem only more evident. A Serb in England would go to work, preferably from 9 to 5, go have a few beers in the evening and go see a footy match on weekends. On Sunday, as most Brits, he'd worship sleeping longer. If it weren't for the accent, it would be quite hard to notice him in any way.

I can only imagine how much harder would it be for someone much different cultural background and physical appearance, like an Arab.

Countries in Europe tend to be still nationalistic. People won't assimilate if they don't feel at home. That's the difference between a European country and an immigrant country, like Canada, Australia and US.

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If that's what people do, then as as soon as the accent goes you're part of the mix - if you think of your adopted home as "home" then that's great. If you pop over and support foreign sports teams, speak primarily in in a different language and wach foreign TV it is hardly home, is it?

More nationalistic than the USA??!?!? :inquisitive:

I understand that Serbia has done more than most to try to... "purify" its racial mix, but the UK is and has been for thousands of years a mongrel of different persons from all over Europe; for considerably less time others have also come over: waves of invaders have come over since the Celts wiped out the preceeding tribes, then Romans, the Saxons, the Vikings, Normans and as a rule every time there was unrest on the mainland another wave of disporia poured over.

Generally these persons integrated over time and their culture was merged with what was already there.

The more similar cultures are the better - and I am sure that Westerners popping into Saudi Arabia / Pakistan / Indonesia have a hellish time "fitting in" with such things as Apostate laws making an idle comment a 15 year jail term; Japan is just as bad in a different way with their own quaint racist term for all outsiders. "Wogs" a British term for all persons not part of Blighty is of course banned years ago whereas "Gaijin" is still a catch all for the uncultured (as what culture is there beyond Japan?) borderline thugs who are on their shores.

Very recently two things have happened at the same time:

1) The amount of persons from abroad has increased.
2) The people didn't really want to be here - just have the benefits of being so - hence didn't integrate culturally.

It is the failure to / to want to integrate culturally that is causing 99% of the problems.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

It is the failure to / to want to integrate culturally that is causing 99% of the problems.

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Hurr durr:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

People who think the problem is the other lot and not themselves. Well, that's a shock!

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If you want to know how much Europeans hate foreigners, just look at all the votes anti-EU parties are getting lately. Europeans don't even want to live together with other Europeans, much less with blacks, browns or yellow, who are just colors and not humans anyway. :dizzy2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

I understand that Serbia has done more than most to try to... "purify" its racial mix, but the UK is and has been for thousands of years a mongrel of different persons from all over Europe; for considerably less time others have also come over: waves of invaders have come over since the Celts wiped out the preceeding tribes, then Romans, the Saxons, the Vikings, Normans and as a rule every time there was unrest on the mainland another wave of disporia poured over.

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"English" is an amalgam of Germanic, Norse and French languages, often with 3 sets of words for the same thing, and 3 sets of linguistic rules, with later attempts to rationalise this bunch into a single language and with each set of linguistic artefacts supposedly meaning something subtly different, whereas historically they were all describing exactly the same things. AFAIK since the imperial period the Indian subcontinent has also contributed a fair chunk of linguistic heritage as well.

What's actually interesting is that "white" is by definition the most colorful form of visible light. So calling black people "coloreds" is an oxymoron.

Makes more sense to call them "void" or "pit" or "archdemon" or something, if you're gonna hate on them.

(I haven't followed this thread. :wacky:)

People vote anti EU because the EU is a meddlesome bitch.

Ever hear anyone complain about the Chinese? Exactly, discussion over. People from islamic countries just happen to lead every chart when it comes to everything negative.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Ever hear anyone complain about the Chinese?

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Uh..... Yes?

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Originally Posted by Fragony

People vote anti EU because the EU is a meddlesome bitch.

Ever hear anyone complain about the Chinese? Exactly, discussion over.

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Chinese in the US used to have a similar status to Spartan helots, including the bit where it's fair game to hunt them.

And when Westerners went to Japan to start with many were killed out of hand; China viewed them as supplicants to the Imperial throne. Boxter rebellion, anyone?
The first Europeans to Africa called the locals monkeys, and the locals called the Europeans ghosts.
The first few colonies in the Americas one cause for failure was being slaughtered by the locals.

I can think of few cultures who on first meeting were really nice and kind to each other and went forward with mutual respect.

But often when two cultures merge then the peoples do get on

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Uh..... Yes?

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That's a while ago, and there was such thing as mass-immigration of north-africans or central-africans. It's just a fact that these groups are overpresented in, well everything. Muslims are just trouble. Not only do they have genetic-defects because of centuries of inbreeding they are also more prone to mental-deseases. Have a significantly lower IQ. Are overpresented in crime. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

That's a while ago

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Yes, "today" is indeed a long time ago.

Just out of curiosity(and ignoring the fact that you're using debunked junk science from a eugenics proponent), just what is a significantly lower IQ? Do you know how big the gap needs to be to be able to tell any difference between two individuals?

By the way: Christian immigrants are also highly over-represented in crime. Buddhists too. Probably more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

That's a while ago, and there was such thing as mass-immigration of north-africans or central-africans. It's just a fact that these groups are overpresented in, well everything. Muslims are just trouble. Not only do they have genetic-defects because of centuries of inbreeding they are also more prone to mental-deseases. Have a significantly lower IQ. Are overpresented in crime. Fact.

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Inbred Muslims? Weren't they significantly more widespread than Europeans for centuries? A contiguous collection of empires from the Indies in the east to Morocco in the west, plus Iberia where they'd been invited over by indigenous Christians.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Yes, "today" is indeed a long time ago.

Just out of curiosity(and ignoring the fact that you're using debunked junk science from a eugenics proponent), just what is a significantly lower IQ? Do you know how big the gap needs to be to be able to tell any difference between two individuals?

By the way: Christian immigrants are also highly over-represented in crime. Buddhists too. Probably more.

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You can check the IQ world-map for your question. And it shows. Almost none make it to higher education, and often cope on the lowest we have to offer. The average Dutchman has an IQ of 105. The average north-african regardless of being here for three generations is hopelessly behind, A LOT of north-africans are 'zwakbegaafd' as it's called here, (weakly gifted should translate well enough), but barely able sums it up fine. The effects of inbreeding is well known. A lower IQ isn't the only consequence, so are health-problems, and being more prone to mental disorders. Girls do better though, you will see plemty muslim girls at universities. I don't know why that is, only the males fail at just about everything.

My dad is an Algerian with a double PhD in microbiology and virology.

But I'll make sure to tell him that he's retarded the next time I see him, thanks to his being "north-African".

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Originally Posted by Hax

My dad is an Algerian with a double PhD in microbiology and virology.

But I'll make sure to tell him that he's retarded the next time I see him, thanks to his being "north-African".

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Of course there are north-africans who do well, but not a lot. Not the avarage one, way behind. Do you deny that? Do you deny that there is an increased risk of physical and mental illness because of centuries of 'keeping it in the family'?

yeah, don't you think it's more likely there's an increased risk of mental illness because of +/- 200 years of colonialism which was often paired with the systematic castration of the countries' intellectual elite, finally followed by bloody wars of independence?

but nevermind guys, Fragony has got it all figured out. Let's just burn all scientific papers arguing for anything else and pelt them at incoming immigrants.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hax

yeah, don't you think it's more likely there's an increased risk of mental illness because of +/- 200 years of colonialism which was often paired with the systematic castration of the countryies' intellectual elite.

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Never heard about that but I'll look it up. Whiping out the intellectuals in China didn't had any effect though, they are still very intelligent people.

Edit: Can't find anything, do you have a good link? Totally new to me.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

You can check the IQ world-map for your question.

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That ma is debunked junk science made by a eugenics fan who wants to sterilize dumb people. Remember the importance of checking your sources.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

And it shows.

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I asked you a specific question, and I want a specific answer:

How big does the IQ difference between two people have to be before you can tell there's a difference? IQ is measured in simple numbers, so you should have next to no problems giving an exact number. Or at least a possible range.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hax

yeah, don't you think it's more likely there's an increased risk of mental illness because of +/- 200 years of colonialism which was often paired with the systematic castration of the countries' intellectual elite, finally followed by bloody wars of independence?

but nevermind guys, Fragony has got it all figured out. Let's just burn all scientific papers arguing for anything else and pelt them at incoming immigrants.

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Most countries only the rich did well and everyone else was oppressed. There was no meritocracy anywhere else - poor people died the world over.
The "bloody" wars for independance were nothing compared to the slaughters since.

Mental illness is also subjective. Believing in someone born of a virgin who was impregnated by something that was partly what the virgin gave birth to, performed miracles, died and then was resurrected and hasn't been since seems pretty loopy - unless if is an allowed form.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

How big does the IQ difference between two people have to be before you can tell there's a difference? IQ is measured in simple numbers, so you should have next to no problems giving an exact number. Or at least a possible range.

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IQ tests only show how good you are at that specific test - to be obtuse if I was given an IQ test in Norwegian I'd get almost all of it wrong as I'd not understand the instructions which is a language barrier not my innate cognition.

I'd estimate 10-15 points.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

IQ tests only show how good you are at that specific test - to be obtuse if I was given an IQ test in Norwegian I'd get almost all of it wrong as I'd not understand the instructions which is a language barrier not my innate cognition.

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Indeed, but I'm ignoring that* part so I can hear Frags answer as to how big the IQ difference has to be in order to be noticeable.

*along with the rest of the "what does IQ even mean?"-debate

42.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Indeed, but I'm ignoring that* part so I can hear Frags answer as to how big the IQ difference has to be in order to be noticeable.

*along with the rest of the "what does IQ even mean?"-debate

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The difference is substantial, but you also only have to look at the level of education, vmbo is lowest although there are multiple levels, but they just are a rare sight om the higher levels.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

The difference is substantial, but you also only have to look at the level of education, vmbo is lowest although there are multiple levels, but they just are a rare sight om the higher levels.

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It's astounding how people in war zones and poor areas with few available schools have a lack of education, isn't it?
And wasn't half the arab spring about educated youths who couldn't find (good) jobs in Northern Africa because the dictators we intelligent people had installed had ruined the economies?