Piracy makes a comeback

So I check Drudge recently and see this on the left side:

https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/...rudge_whoa.jpg

Yeah, this is a growing threat.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The top US military officer said Monday he was "stunned" by the reach of the Somali pirates who seized a Saudi supertanker off the east coast of Africa, calling piracy a growing problem that needs to be addressed.
But Admiral Michael Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said there were limits to what the world's navies could do once a ship has been captured because national governments often preferred to pay pirates ransom.

"I'm stunned by the range of it, less so than I am the size," Mullen said of the seizure of the Sirius Star Sunday by armed men.

The huge, oil laden prize, which is three times the size of a US aircraft carrier, was some 450 miles east of Kenya when it was boarded, he said.

That is the farthest out at sea that a ship has been seized in the latest surge of piracies, according to Mullen.

The pirates, he said, are "very good at what they do. They're very well armed. Tactically, they are very good."

"And so, once they get to a point where they can board, it becomes very difficult to get them off, because, clearly, now they hold hostages.

"The question then becomes, well, what do you do about the hostages? And that's where the standoff is.

"That's a national question to ask based on the flag of the vessel. And the countries by and large have been paying the ransom that the pirates have asked," he said.

Mullen said the number of successful piracies have gone down, but the incidence of ship seizures were way up.

"It's got a lot of people's attention and is starting to have impact on the commercial side, which I know countries raise as a concern," he said.

"And so there's a lot more focus on this. It's a very serious issue. It's a growing issue. And we're going to continue to have to deal with it," he said.

As awesome as I think it is that a bunch of Somalians are able to essentially do the same occupation that died out in the 1800s and not get totally annihilated in 5 seconds, who's to blame for this? It's not like the US Navy is bogged down; we're fighting two wars in the desert for God's sake. Perhaps those more informed than me could share what jurisdiction this falls under (i.e. who should deal with it) but for now, I think it's just a neat story to share.

BBC actually had a very good article on this today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7735144.stm

The summary is that international laws prevent the various nations from dealing with the pirates in the ways that used to work.

Look what you've done General!



By promoting piracy through your mafia game, I hold you personally responsible.:clown:



I'll see if I can find it, but NPR recently did a story and interview on modern pirates.

If I am hauling a bajillion dollars worth of oil around I would hire someone to ride “shotgun” for me (perhaps ninja’s~D). The lost profits from being just a few days late is worth the protection money IMO.

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Originally Posted by yesdachi

If I am hauling a bajillion dollars worth of oil around I would hire someone to ride “shotgun” for me (perhaps ninja’s~D). The lost profits from being just a few days late is worth the protection money IMO.

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Why don't the Saudi's just use a bit of their oil money and make something super awesome with it, like Robot Ninjas?

Hire pirates to pirate the pirates.

Piracy has NEVER left us entirely, nor will it.

It is difficult to completely stop a phenomenon when the potential for profit is enormous.

$100M cargo all in one place, weakly guarded. No chance to "steal" the cargo, but at the cost per hour of sitting still, it rapidly becomes possible for every pirate in the crew to make more than the average lifetime salary of anyone in their home village in Somalia in less than a week's work.

As always, there are two approaches to dealing with it.

1. Pay the ransom, accept it as part of the cost of doing business, and try to formalize the payments so that risks are minimized all around (Barbary Pirates).

2. Coordinate all naval powers in the region and extirpate them. NOTE: this will only work for a moderate period of time. During the following quiet period, naval attention will draw down and shift elsewhere and the situation will repeat.


The USA will pursue strategy #2, but will lack complete cooperation and will be unable to devote sufficient resources solo to the task (at least without launching highly unpolular ground operations at the various "bases" that exist on foreign territory). This will curtail the piracy somewhat, but only modestly.

Many other international firms will pursue course #1 (quietly) and pass the cost to the consumer while publicly calling for #2

I actually believe this simply part of the natural cycle of nature. As pirates grow in strength, so too will the world cool down. I can see no other possible explanation, here. Pirates benefit the world as a whole, cooling us down.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

I actually believe this simply part of the natural cycle of nature. As pirates grow in strength, so too will the world cool down. I can see no other possible explanation, here. Pirates benefit the world as a whole, cooling us down.

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Why do I suddenly have a craving for spaghetti and meatballs?

:pirate2:

I heard a little radio documentary like piece where they talked to one of these pirates.

One of the main reason that they keep on doing it is that it is customary for these pirates, after a big score, to spend all or most of their money on booze, girls, gambling, and partying. Basically after a night, they end up with little to no money again and have to go out and jack another ship

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Originally Posted by TevashSzat

I heard a little radio documentary like piece where they talked to one of these pirates.

One of the main reason that they keep on doing it is that it is customary for these pirates, after a big score, to spend all or most of their money on booze, girls, gambling, and partying. Basically after a night, they end up with little to no money again and have to go out and jack another ship

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That sounds SO much better than my career options right now.

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Originally Posted by TevashSzat

I heard a little radio documentary like piece where they talked to one of these pirates.

One of the main reason that they keep on doing it is that it is customary for these pirates, after a big score, to spend all or most of their money on booze, girls, gambling, and partying. Basically after a night, they end up with little to no money again and have to go out and jack another ship

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So really, they're helping the local economies.

I'm surprised no one posted the story of the Latvian cargo ship that was hijacked with T-72 tanks and RPGs.

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I'm surprised no one posted the story of the Latvian cargo ship that was hijacked with T-72 tanks and RPGs.

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I understood that to be a Ukrainian ship, and besides, who can use a T-72 without ammunition?

I think we discussed the Ukrainian ship with the T-72s and stuff a while back, though I haven't kept up with it to see if/how it was resolved. They ammo is on board the ship, the thing is more how would the pirates be able to unload the cargo. They need a proper port with a deep enough harbor. I think the ship has a crane on board though.

Piracy really didn't disappear it just changed. My dad told me that during his Navy days on an axillary fleet tugboat they'd have to get armed sailors or marines to stay any barges they were hauling when in the South China Sea. Otherwise pirates would boat up to the barge and steal whatever was there within view of the tugboat that could do little to nothing for the barge because it was too far away.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

So really, they're helping the local economies.

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Back in the old days, Port Royal and Nassau were booming towns before the British cracked down. Heck, if they make berth in a place that doesn't get its money immediately sucked up by warlords then it's good for everybody (except the traders, of course :tongue:).

If I was a realpolitik US official, I'd work out a UN-sponsored peace-keeping trip to Somali (bankrolled by the shipping magnates who suffer from this) and start delivering plenty of high-explosive peace solutions to the pirate bases. As an added bonus, the expedition can be used to keep the Islamists from gaining control of Mogadishu and even turn back their expansion in places. The only tricky part is getting the manpower - perhaps China could be enticed to help? They would also be less concerned about casaulties, from a historical standpoint...

Of course, I don't really advocate this personally, but it would probably slow down the problem.

If I owned the ships I'd be putting some surplus .50 cal BMG machine guns on the sides. Hire a blackwater guy to go along on the trip and have the crew shoot at any small boat that gets close. Shouldn't be too difficult to add enough armor to deflect bullets and old RPGs.

If I was in charge of a nation I'd go and bombard the pirate base when a ship flying our flag was captured. Perhaps even pay the pirates off before killing them all. I mean, we know where the bases are, and we can crush them easily.

International law? Pfft. If it does nothing against these pirates, how are they going to use it against my country?

CR

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If I owned the ships I'd be putting some surplus .50 cal BMG machine guns on the sides. Hire a blackwater guy to go along on the trip and have the crew shoot at any small boat that gets close. Shouldn't be too difficult to add enough armor to deflect bullets and old RPGs.

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Makes you wonder why multi millionaire shipping magnates who can easily afford a whole pile of weaponry and a bunch of mercenaries don't go for the Rabbit approach doesn't it
:dizzy2:
Is it because Rabbit would find himself unable to get insurance , unable to get a shipping licence and arrested at the first port he docked at .....errrr actually he wouldn't even have to dock to get himself arrested and his ship siezed .:idea2:
International law pffft:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:some people eh:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:


Alexander , take a look at your post , then do a quick re-run of recent history in Somalia then try and explain how your post isn't bollox

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

If I was a realpolitik US official, I'd work out a UN-sponsored peace-keeping trip to Somali (bankrolled by the shipping magnates who suffer from this) and start delivering plenty of high-explosive peace solutions to the pirate bases.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

If I was in charge of a nation I'd go and bombard the pirate base when a ship flying our flag was captured. Perhaps even pay the pirates off before killing them all. I mean, we know where the bases are, and we can crush them easily.

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Didn't you guys see black hawk down?

Sasaki - I'm talking about bombs and bombarding, not sending in a dozen helicoters and no tanks.

CR

Ya know, back in the day they developed a solution for marauding pirates that jacked everyone's cargo.

It was called the Ship of the Line


Modern day version:

http://www.bb62museum.org/images/bb62atpearl.jpg

Folks, the military answer to this is as old as the hills. Gnaeus Pompeius flattened Med piracy for decades. Carribean piracy was almost eradicated in the mid-1700s. The British and Dutch more or less smashed Indonesian piracy.

Lots of boots; lots of patrolling; smash bases; arrest or kill any who support piracy; harsh and swift sentences for any pirate captured and anyone aiding and abetting them; all nation-states following the same basic approach.

HOWEVER, since few of these criteria can be met and others would meet with active opposition by the nation states involved as unethical and overly harsh, it's not going to change. Better patrol efforts by the USN will dial it back a bit for a short while, but that's it.

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Originally Posted by AlexanderSextus

Ya know, back in the day they developed a solution for marauding pirates that jacked everyone's cargo.

It was called the Ship of the Line


Modern day version:

http://www.bb62museum.org/images/bb62atpearl.jpg

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I admire your style. However, the historian in me is forced to note that the ships that got the job done were sloops and frigates. SOLs were too expensive for that kind of patrol work.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Sasaki - I'm talking about bombs and bombarding, not sending in a dozen helicoters and no tanks.

CR

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Aren't there going to be civilians nearby though?

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

I admire your style. However, the historian in me is forced to note that the ships that got the job done were sloops and frigates. SOLs were too expensive for that kind of patrol work.

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Well, I didnt say that the SOTL was used for patrol work necessarily, i was under the impression that it was used to intercept pirates that were spotted going somewhere, i.e. a sloop saw a pirate ship headed for a certain port,but didn't have enough men and/or guns to sink it, so they send a SOTL to blow it out of the water while it's still en route.

That battleship would be the equivalent to a 17th century frigate, no?

As for the sloop...

Modern Day Version:

http://www.jmlavelle.com/gunnel/pt_boat.gif

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Aren't there going to be civilians nearby though?

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There weren't in Mogadishu? Didn't over 1000 people die in that day or so of fighting? There's always going to be civilians nearby.

CR

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Folks, the military answer to this is as old as the hills. Gnaeus Pompeius flattened Med piracy for decades. Carribean piracy was almost eradicated in the mid-1700s. The British and Dutch more or less smashed Indonesian piracy.

Lots of boots; lots of patrolling; smash bases; arrest or kill any who support piracy; harsh and swift sentences for any pirate captured and anyone aiding and abetting them; all nation-states following the same basic approach.

HOWEVER, since few of these criteria can be met and others would meet with active opposition by the nation states involved as unethical and overly harsh, it's not going to change. Better patrol efforts by the USN will dial it back a bit for a short while, but that's it.

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That would be rather complicated given the Law of the Sea, international trade and the location. Unless we are once again expecting the United States to act as international policeman? I'd rather not sine this recent upsurge has a lot to do with that "mission".

The horse has somewhat bolted now, but the the best way to minimise anarchy like this is perhaps for the US administration not to interfere to overthrow regimes they don't like. Let's hope this kind of short-sightedness is drawing to a close, but I doubt.

Piracy will always and has always existed, but not recently as a national sport.

I am referring to the Bush Administration's intervention in Somalia in the name of the War on Terror. It has helped to destroy that wretched country's best chance of peace in a generation, left more than a million Somalis dead, homeless or starving, and achieved the precise opposite of its original goal. Far from stamping out an Islamic militancy that scarcely existed, the intervention has turned Somalia into a breeding ground for Islamic extremists and given al-Qaeda a valuable foothold in the Horn of Africa.

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Originally Posted by SwedishFish

I'm surprised no one posted the story of the Latvian cargo ship that was hijacked with T-72 tanks and RPGs.

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It was mentioned in another thread.

According to wiki, it hasn't been resolved yet.

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Originally Posted by wikipedia

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-8623S-002.jpg

The German-owned, Antigua and Barbuda-flagged MV BBC Trinidad is hijacked. It is released on September 11, along with its 13-person crew consisting of a Slovakian captain, ten Filipinos, and two Russians, after a ransom of US$1.1 million is paid.[71] The MT Irene, a Japanese-owned with a crew of three Croatians and 16 Filipinos is also seized on the same day. It is released around the same time as the MV BBC Trinidad for US$1.5 million. Both were held near the town of Eyl.[72] The MV Iran Deyanat was also hijacked and brought to Eyl on the same day. The Iranian-owned ship and its crew of 14 Iranians, three Indians, two Filipinos, and 10 Eastern Europeans, possibly Croatian, is being held for ransom. Pirates have suffered health problems including hair loss and even death, suggesting that could be carrying chemical munitions or radioactive materials.

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3 ships were hijacked that day! ~:eek:

:hijacked: <- nice emoticon