Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat (completed, winners Myth and Zim)
Kingdoms Campaign Britannia Hotseat
Settings:
1.5 patch
M/M
Autoresolve only
Rules
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
- Players shall post a link to the save game in the main game thread and also send a private message to the next player in line to alert them that it is their turn. The save game file should follow the naming convention UotI-turn number-faction (eg. LS-1-Antioch)
- Players have 48 hours to play each turn, with extensions granted at request. The GM will skip a players' turn if the deadline is missed with no communication and a sub allied to the player cannot be found.
- No spies may be used to open the gates of settlements or forts.
- Siege equipment may only be used to open gates as follows: Ballista can open nothing, Catapults can open wooden walls, Trebuchets can open stone walls.
- No destroying buildings for cash under any circumstances.
- No fighting losing defensive battles on purpose in a besieged city, just to deny the invader the sacking option.
- If an army is beaten in battle by a faction that is after them in the turn order that army may not move on the following turn.
- An army which is beaten in battle may not be attacked on the following turn (because it is immobilized either by the game mechanic or by the rule above) by any faction unless it has retreated to a fort or settlement.
- No exploits, including (but not limited to): no merchant forts, no surround-and-destroy, no tribute deals that deliberately put you into debt greater than 10k, no deliberate diplomatic exchange of territories just to get a free garrison, no tribute deals with or monetary gifts to the Pope, no attacking ships in ports.
Players:
England - Myth
Norway - Zim
Wales - Ignoramus
Ireland - Nightbringer Scotland - Cecil XIX RIP Turn 4
Baron's Alliance - phonicsmonkey
OK guys I found two exploits both by accident :) The first one is that in-game messages can be read by opening the save file (found that at work when I opened the one you guys said is corrupt).
The second exploit is that when a diplomat unit tries bribing an enemy settlement and is rejected your king gets one dread. Do this x number of times and you max out your dread for free in one turn.
I propose we don't use the in-game messaging system and that we agree to not abuse the diplomacy dread (diplodread?) thing as having a king with 10 dread for everyone is just silly.
03-03-2011, 23:19
phonicsmonkey
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
The first one is that in-game messages can be read by opening the save file (found that at work when I opened the one you guys said is corrupt).
Did you open it with a text editor or something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
The second exploit is that when a diplomat unit tries bribing an enemy settlement and is rejected your king gets one dread. Do this x number of times and you max out your dread for free in one turn.
I'm fine with not using the in-game messaging. I don't like it anyway as there's no record of it for later (unless you do what myth did I guess). Maybe with the other thing, if people want to keep trying to bribe settlements (something I never bother with myself), we could say perhaps one bribe attempt per diplomat per turn as a guide?
Eh, I spoke to Nightbringer - he said he hasn't messaged Wales. I suppose what i saw (yes I opened it with note pad) was actual camaign text a-la council missions, only made to look like diplomacy from the other nations. The bribe thing however - if you get an instance where you always get rejected (like say at the end of your turn when you are broke) this means that in 10-12 turns you can have a 10 dread general, and autocalc tends to favor that a lot. I'm not going to use this, i prefer a king wiht chiv instead.
03-04-2011, 02:12
phonicsmonkey
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Eh, I spoke to Nightbringer - he said he hasn't messaged Wales.
NB, don't make me come over there....
03-04-2011, 05:28
Nightbringer
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
:thinking:
~:lightbulb:
:cool4:
03-04-2011, 05:38
phonicsmonkey
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbringer
:thinking:
~:lightbulb:
:cool4:
Sorry, I misunderstood - thought you were up to your old tricks again and forgetting to send pms..
03-04-2011, 06:16
Zim
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Why would someone try opening a save with notepad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Eh, I spoke to Nightbringer - he said he hasn't messaged Wales. I suppose what i saw (yes I opened it with note pad) was actual camaign text a-la council missions, only made to look like diplomacy from the other nations. The bribe thing however - if you get an instance where you always get rejected (like say at the end of your turn when you are broke) this means that in 10-12 turns you can have a 10 dread general, and autocalc tends to favor that a lot. I'm not going to use this, i prefer a king wiht chiv instead.
03-04-2011, 07:53
Nightbringer
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
by opening the save file (found that at work when I opened the one you guys said is corrupt).
This is why I guess
03-04-2011, 08:12
Zim
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
That's a what he did, not a why. ~;p Fiddling with the saves in notepad strikes me as opening up all sorts of avenues for abuse. Or at least it would if the files didn't come up as gibberish in notepad.
That's a what he did, not a why. ~;p Fiddling with the saves in notepad strikes me as opening up all sorts of avenues for abuse. Or at least it would if the files didn't come up as gibberish in notepad.
I think what he meant by that was that he was trying to figure out what was wrong with the save file.
03-04-2011, 15:07
Myth
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Basically yes it was stated the file is smaller. I opened it assuming I'd get gibberish (which i did) then I saw a wall of plain ol' English.
I double checked and I think it's actually Wales's correspondence, not a part of the actual game. I won't open any more saves but since I know it can be exploited I told you guys (rather than reading the messages quietly which would have been to my advantage). So you can trust in my honesty as a player :)
03-04-2011, 20:11
Zim
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
I know what you were getting at. I just had never heard of someone opening a save in notepad in order to fix a corrupted save
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbringer
I think what he meant by that was that he was trying to figure out what was wrong with the save file.
I didn't think you would have cheated and the posted about it. It just seemed curious to me to try to open a hotseat save. One of the earliest hotseats here was marred by at least one person messing with files (in this case his game files) and accusations that at least one or two others were doing something similar. No offense meant. :bow:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Basically yes it was stated the file is smaller. I opened it assuming I'd get gibberish (which i did) then I saw a wall of plain ol' English.
I double checked and I think it's actually Wales's correspondence, not a part of the actual game. I won't open any more saves but since I know it can be exploited I told you guys (rather than reading the messages quietly which would have been to my advantage). So you can trust in my honesty as a player :)
I was merely curious, I am no programmer nor do i know how to mod MTW. I double clicked just for the hell of it :)
It appears that our diplomacy thread is a bit on the slow side though. BTW do we actually send our diplomats to the Isle of Man in game?
03-07-2011, 04:14
Nightbringer
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Nah, that would just be annoying. Although i guess ti could be convient for trade rights and map info trades.
03-07-2011, 04:21
phonicsmonkey
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbringer
Nah, that would just be annoying. Although i guess ti could be convient for trade rights and map info trades.
It's usually handy in these games to send all diplomats to the same place. In the bigger games it tends to be Baghdad or Rome. There's no obligation though.
03-07-2011, 06:12
Zim
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
The autoresolve gods have failed me at the battle of random castle outside of Wick. Is this the end of Norway? Well, not this turn, but maybe soon. :clown:
I only just discovered the rule about catapults not being allowed to attack stone walls. That means I broke the rules when I assaulted Gloucester with catapults. Should replay the save or what?
03-08-2011, 23:45
Nightbringer
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
I'm okay with continuing, it was ai controlled right.
03-08-2011, 23:49
phonicsmonkey
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
No, Gloucester is English. I think we should wind it back and replay. It's Zim's call as admin though...and luckily it's his turn.
03-09-2011, 01:15
Nightbringer
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
oh, if its human controlled i think we should probably go back, or admin control back to england. I'm fine with whatever.
03-09-2011, 07:20
Zim
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Too far away (in turns) and way too few troops. This war will be won or lost before then.
Hardly unless the King and his boatloads of troops have arrived already. I'll be able to play my save later on today.
RE: Rules dispute. Just noticed. Let's hold onto the save for a sec. I'll check with Myth on Gloucester.
03-09-2011, 10:41
Myth
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
As i said in the PM, I'm fine with it if I am allowed the same advantage. If not, then i'd like to rewind because I left that one stack of units there on purpose to slow the attacking army. Right now he can just continue on to Oxford or wherever while otherwise he'd be sitting there for one more turn, building rams.
03-09-2011, 11:08
Ignoramus
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
I'm happy with that solution. If Myth prefers we replay, then I'm happy to do that too, although it might be a bit unfair, seeing as I would know not to do some moves which I did originally.
03-09-2011, 18:20
Myth
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
I've explained to Zim that dropping the catapult rule would benefit me more than wales, so i think it best to do a redo. I would pretty much do things the same way again.
03-09-2011, 18:27
Nightbringer
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
ultimately it is your decision Myth, but we could also have the admin give control of Gloucester back to you and move iggy's army.
03-09-2011, 22:05
phonicsmonkey
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbringer
we could also have the admin give control of Gloucester back to you and move iggy's army.
Actually I don't think that console command works in M2TW. At least I haven't been able to change settlement ownership using it in the past. Best to replay I think.
03-09-2011, 22:37
Nightbringer
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
thats right ti doesn't, although they could move iggy's troops out, put myths right next to it, and let him recapture, but just replaying will probably be better.
03-10-2011, 09:33
Myth
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
The only thing I could lose is the 4 star general I was allowed to adopt I think.. Can't remember when I got him, he was a beast though! I hope it was 2 turns ago.
03-10-2011, 09:34
Ignoramus
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
For what it's worth, I'd probably prefer allowing the catapults to hit stone walls, but whatever the decision, we need to keep the game moving.
03-10-2011, 10:47
phonicsmonkey
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
For what it's worth, I'd probably prefer allowing the catapults to hit stone walls, but whatever the decision, we need to keep the game moving.
Zim was saying the same thing. I think on reflection the combined restrictions do disadvantage the smaller factions by making quick strikes almost impossible. I'd be happy to vote in favour of relaxing something in the rules if there's a move to do so.
03-10-2011, 18:04
Myth
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
I'm fine with either solution.
03-10-2011, 20:55
Zim
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
At this point we've already been playing the current rules for a bit. I'd say just do the rollback and get this game going again.
03-10-2011, 23:10
Nightbringer
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
I'm fine with either solution, just do one ASAP and ill be happy.
So this was kind of a...momentous turn. I thought I should provide screenshots since what happened was so unexpected.
I'm pretty sure everyone knows Scotland and Norway are in a deathmatch. An attempt to prevent their taking Wick failed and I lost one of my armies, but I have some others and have been attempting to turn the tide, or at least last long enough to get the King and his reinforcements.
This turn one of my seafaring armies fought with them for control of Kirkwall. Their army was smaller but higher quality, and despite the disparity in numbers the comp gave us 1:1 odds
Somewhat to my surprise (I lost the last "even" battle when I tried to relieve a siege earlier in the game) I won, and was somewhat excited to see the custom campaign map King sprite fall. Since there were no ships at the shore of the island to flee to, the whole army was destroyed.
Something like this came up in another game where a player asked me discreetly if he was allowed to block all the mountain passes providing escape routes from a territory before defeating an army so that it would be destroyed if it lost the battle.
I said if it happened by accident that's one thing, but to do it deliberately was another and he should leave an escape route - he countered by pointing out that in this exact situation there would be no escape route (because no fleet) and I admitted I didn't see a way around that...it's just hard luck.
03-25-2011, 03:08
Zim
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
I think there would be a difference between spreading small units around to prevent an escape and an army dying because it was on an island. Still, it does raise some questions.
If he had had ships parked at shore would it be an exploit if I had defeated ro sunk them? What if his army had retreated to them but the ships were then sunk, somewhat more like actually chasing an army down?
I'd like to hold the save for a bit. Since Scotland is right before me we could rearrange things somehow (I think that army had two fms, maybe keep one back off the island?) if Cecil would like. I know I wouldn't want to go for such a small mistake...
Quote:
Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey
BOOM!
:dizzy2:
Something like this came up in another game where a player asked me discreetly if he was allowed to block all the mountain passes providing escape routes from a territory before defeating an army so that it would be destroyed if it lost the battle.
I said he should leave an escape route - he countered by pointing out that in this exact situation there would be no escape route (because no fleet) and I admitted I didn't see a way around that...it's just hard luck.
03-25-2011, 03:19
phonicsmonkey
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
If he had had ships parked at shore would it be an exploit if I had defeated ro sunk them?
I don't think so - you can't constrain someone from attacking a fleet for this reason. What if another (allied?) player who couldn't see the army on land drove off the fleet? My feeling is this is a risk you take when attacking an island or a province far away by sea where you have no continguous territories. You can always build a fort to retreat to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
What if his army had retreated to them but the ships were then sunk, somewhat more like actually chasing an army down?
Still think this would be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
I'd like to hold the save for a bit. Since Scotland is right before me we could rearrange things somehow (I think that army had two fms, maybe keep one back off the island?) if Cecil would like. I know I wouldn't want to go for such a small mistake...
That's very gracious of you. I think the best option, if you want to give him an out, is to let him replay but simply build a fort there on the island that he can retreat to once defeated.
03-25-2011, 03:32
Zim
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
That's fine with me, although it will be sad to see my destruction of his army to try to turn things around become an ok military victory. :clown:
So in that case I would agree not to siege the fort this turn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey
That's very gracious of you. I think the best option, if you want to give him an out, is to let him replay but simply build a fort there on the island that he can retreat to once defeated.
03-25-2011, 04:08
phonicsmonkey
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
That's fine with me, although it will be sad to see my destruction of his army to try to turn things around become an ok military victory. :clown:
So in that case I would agree not to siege the fort this turn?
It's up to you but by the rules you would be allowed to siege it. He can always reinforce it with another army to relieve the siege...
03-25-2011, 08:29
Ignoramus
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
Ouch!
03-25-2011, 19:37
Cecil XIX
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
I say let it stand. I appreciate that everyone's willing to roll back the save and let me continue on, but I've been feeling like I'm in too many PBEMs to balance between V&V and Shogun 2 anyway. Besides, this kind of behavior is perfectly normal for the game, isn't it? I seem to remember armies sent to besiege small islands like Corsica and Sardinia also suffered complete destruction if they were were defeated while attempting to seize a province. This isn't the first time I've suffered a catastrophic defeat from a painfully obvious mistake (see my avatar and custom user title), and like those before it this failure provides a vivid experience to ensure I learn an easy lesson. Certainly it would have been perfectly easy to avoid, at the very least I could have accepted one of the many adoption offers I had received (didn't want to go any further in debt then I already was) and kept a family member somewhere safe. Besides, how often can we expect a Brittania hotseat to turn out this way? Unique situations like this should be taken advantage of and enjoyed.
And if you still feel bad for me, then write a public AAR like with the Levantine Struggle. I'd enjoy watching what happens to Scotland now. :laugh4:
03-26-2011, 00:55
phonicsmonkey
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
From now on I will refer to Zim as the Hammer of the Scots
03-26-2011, 01:02
Zim
Re: Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat
I've gotta say, this is definately an event that will be remembered, and a testament to the part luck also plays a part in hotseats.
I feel a little better knowing you had adoption offers. In the very first turn or so I was in a similar position once, with my only family member landed in Scotland (at least, I think the prince was it). However, believing there was no way that I'd do better than break even with you trading settlements, I embraced my debt and clicked yes on every single adoption offer. I figured I would go out poor either way, might as well try to do so with a bang. :clown:
