The butcher is no more, thanks, apparently, to the United States. :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates:
RIP to his victims all around the world.
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The butcher is no more, thanks, apparently, to the United States. :unitedstates: :unitedstates: :unitedstates:
RIP to his victims all around the world.
I figured he had died many years ago already.
DIE YOU SON OF A ****! DIE AND BURN IN HELL! DIE!
hes already dead.............
AND YES!
awesome that he was in an islamabad mansion.......... that should be interesting
It is .org custom to not speak disrespectfully of the dead until they are buried. :wink:
:unitedstates:
Pakistan is gonna have some 'splaining to do. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion1
It was a firefight, and not a Predator as was first speculated.
I'm glad he saw it coming instead of having it drop through the ceiling, and I hope he was terrified.
I never thought this day would come. I figured he'd die from his kidney problems before he was ever found.
Rest in Piss.
Osama bin Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden (Arabic: أسامة بن محمد بن عوض بن لادن, ʾUsāmah bin Muḥammad bin ʿAwaḍ bin Lādin; March 10, 1957 – May 1, 2011)
For those who just missed Obama's speech here is the short version:
https://i.imgur.com/sdaDJ.gif
NBC gives additional details about firefight.
"He was shot at least once in the head."
Oh really?
They just released a photo of the man who pulled the trigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
https://i55.tinypic.com/2uh8hhh.jpg
Initial reports indicate that he put two in his heart, one in his computer.
Although this is a good news I wonder what this could bring in the long run. Making him a martyr for the Muslim fanatics is not the best solution I think. Capturing him alive or letting him die naturally would have been better options.
That was never an option for America or Americans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun
I think the message of today is that those who'd have Osama for a martyr now know Uncle Sam will get them, no matter how far and how long they run. :yes: :cheerleader:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun
The whole world had an enemy in Osama Bin Laden, and the whole world has one less enemy.
I am grateful that he can harm no one else again, or lead the efforts of a group of mass murderers. I am thankful that the victims of this person finally had justice done on their behalf.
I selfishly hope that we can experience the unity we all felt on 9/11 again, and I hope it lasts for a while this time. Would be very welcome.
DOES THIS MEAN OBAMA IS NOT A MUSLIM??
Props to President Obama for keeping up the pressure and following through with his campaign pledge to kill him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
“Today, at my direction, the United States launched a targeted operation against that compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan,” Obama said at the White House as he looked straight into the camera. “A small team of Americans carried out the operation with extraordinary courage and capability. No Americans were harmed. They took care to avoid civilian casualties. After a fire fight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body.”
Yes, I agree, it is better that he is dead. People that are alive have a bad habit of being alive, and people that are dead have a bad habit of being dead. And one need not worry about one that is already dead. Martyrdom? Sure....he can have. But it is worth it....and when those who are inspired by his martyrdom are dead as well, it wont really matter that much.
Okay, i laughed really hard and way more than I should have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphic
Awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphic
No matter how long and how far you run...
:unitedstates:
CR
Why am I not allowed to 50 smilies in one post? :brood:
That is a brilliant poster! :laugh4:
Will this essentially secure the Presidency for Obama for the next election? This is *obviously* a huge boost to Obama's popularity... and will probably boost his approval rating in the same way Bush's did back in 2001.
Oh, and Osama was killed/assassinated in Abottabad, not Islamabad, and Obama gave full kudos to Pakistan/ISI in his speech so there will, most likely and hopefully, be not political backlash in that arena... unless the media turns it into a big deal.
Geez how very smart of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphic
edit ah I see
I remember where I was and what I was doing the morning of September 11, 2001.
And I'm going to remember May 1, 2011 for the rest of my life.
Also - America **** Yeah. **** Yeah.
Finally - have fun with your 9/11 buddies;
CRQuote:
JAHANNEM, OUTER DARKNESS—The hijackers who carried out the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon expressed confusion and surprise Monday to find themselves in the lowest plane of Na'ar, Islam's Hell.
"I was promised I would spend eternity in Paradise, being fed honeyed cakes by 67 virgins in a tree-lined garden, if only I would fly the airplane into one of the Twin Towers," said Mohammed Atta, one of the hijackers of American Airlines Flight 11, between attempts to vomit up the wasps, hornets, and live coals infesting his stomach. "But instead, I am fed the boiling feces of traitors by malicious, laughing Ifrit. Is this to be my reward for destroying the enemies of my faith?"
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Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
It's always a morbid affair to celebrate death... but it is justified in this case by that he did not celebrate 'death', as such, but rather he celebrated the death of innocent purely for selfish, fanatical reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
Basiclly, I believe he is a guilty, dangerous person who endangered peace with his warmongering and hatred and deserved nothing less then the most gruesome of deaths.
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It means less than nothing at this point
I will wake up tommorow and we will still have spent more money and shed more innocent blood (on both sides)
The death or marginilzation of Bin Laden was a fat accompli from the moment 9/11 happedend
I wonder if this will give Obama enough political capitial to continue playing empire
WHO WANTS GROUND TROOPS IN LYBIA
Dont get me wrong I dont care if we cut the mans balls off and fed them to him but I don't see what we are celebrating.
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Philosophy be damned, for now, wedrinkwish I was old enough to consume alcohol.
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I'm afraid that they are running towards the closest US embassy while carrying suicide vests.. If only someone else would have killed him. Then he would have been forgotten but now.. I'm not so sure..Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
I totally understand where you're coming from. I have long ago lost hatred and anger over this person, because I recognized how destructive it is.
As it stands, my position on the matter is the corpse should be given a proper Muslim burial, so as to prevent as much backlash as possible, hopefully sparing the life of even one single human being from the aftermath of this. Justice, has been served by his death. Vengeance has not, barbarism has not, and we can demonstrate that by remembering our priorities: We were after Bin Laden because we sought to protect life from his harm. We can commit him to the ground in a way that is not insulting to people, even if for me, the purpose will be the same.... to protect life from his harm. Not out of respect for him, but for innocent human life, that could be harmed if we directly incite hatred.
That's where my head is at. Level, clear, and compassionate. I seek no blood, no gore, no satisfying vengeance. I think a lot of people can feel the same way.
I can only speak for myself. But justice has been served now, and it would have been served had he been captured alive and he had been thrown in prison. The objective: remove his freedom to harm people. That's been accomplished. And that's what the victims of his cruelty would have demanded.
I feel very comfortable that the feelings I am feeling are not because of a satisfaction of blood lust. They are a "thank goodness it is over" kind of feeling. I have no vengeance in my heart.
I think the only way you can look at this situation is that yes, we are certainly cheering out of a combination of hatred and 'justice', which in this case this hatred is because he must be brought to justice for his crimes committed. His anger/hatred led to him ordering planes to fly into the heart of his perceived enemies, while the response was to simply kill the man responsible.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
This hatred certainly does lead to a cycle of disaster... but there are always exceptions to the rule.
Edit: ATPG put it much simpler above... this is bringing the man to justice for what he has done.
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:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
I hate the senseless destruction he has brought to the world. That is what I've always hated.
This person was a wrong-headed idealist who believed what he was doing was making the world a better place. And his opinion on what was justice, and what was right and what was wrong, was blindingly ignorant. Ignorance and the idea of crusading for justice is a recipe for great evil.
I hate what he's done. I think his head was screwed up. I think it is tragic what he chose to do with his life. His death, however, is only tragic because it had to come to this to put a stop to his destructive influence. I'm just at a place right now where hatred of people is not what I feel anymore, even sickos like this guy. Bad apples on the human family tree, rotten from the inside out, who might have had the potential to be a decent apple, had they made different choices or were not believers in such a destructive philosophy. I take humanity for what it is... good and bad. Humanity would only be rotten if folks like Bin Laden were not the exception, but the rule. How we react to folks like Bin Laden shows us for who we really are.
We can either be rotten right back, or be better.
It's what we've always been, ACIN.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
The difference is that only some of us feel that way, and we get over it. Humanity is maturing. That is why we're so concerned about getting Bin Laden and causing no civilian casualties if possible, or burying him in a way that prevents riots and death.
We are progressing. We're not saints. We're not there yet. Humanity has hope. It doesn't have perfection. But I am okay with that. If I were you, I'd feel hopeful, not worried.
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Yes, yes, good job on dressing up a Voltaire quote I'm sure I have a gold star here for you somewhere. Their are plenty of other places you can go play deep thinking college libreal. The reaction to this event is par for the human history course.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
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I've already posted my veiws on post 30Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
The kids on facebook puffing out their chests mean nothing, the proles now have a voice that went unheard for generations due to the lack of social media.
Already a moral equivalency drawn between Americans and Osama bin Laden on page one. I guess it was to be expected, but I am still ~:(.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
I am of the opinon we are better but am perplexed by the celebrating....DO I MAKE YOU CRYQuote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
I don't have blood lust, nor do I think celebrating means you have blood lust.
I feel a sense of justice. And vengeance satisfied.
But I do not think it is bloodlust because my elation at his death comes from knowing it was just that he has died. Bloodlust cannot endure a decade. What remains is the grim celebration that justice was finally, after so many years, served.
CR
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If you cannot understand it, I don't know what to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
What are we going to do with his body? That is the question that really has me hooked.
Also, the guy that shot him must be so pumped for the 50 million USD he is going to getting.:yes:
I think everyone here is smart enough to realize Bin Laden was at best a figurehead in Global terror at this pointQuote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
And all the cheerleading in the world won't change that
I don't mind the questions. I just hope that you fully appreciate that people are not all at the same level of maturity, and that while the trend is toward the more intellectual, reasonable, and mature, there will be folks who are on the other end of the bell curve. They're part of our human family still. The objective is to continue to be better and better, so that whatever the bottom of the curve is, it too gets better and better. It's also possible to have differing opinions on the same issue and still be at the same maturity level.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
Don't be discouraged by those who lag behind. They'll catch up, or their offspring will. The progress of humanity is irrevocable, the march towards enlightenment is unstoppable. Just remember that in our parents' lifetimes, and ours, a great leap forward has taken place regarding sexual and racial attitudes. In the past couple centuries we saw the end of slavery. Rights and freedoms have advanced substantially. Fret not about how far we still have to go, and rejoice in how far we have come, and remember that the steps we take rarely get retraced.
I am usually a rationally pessimistic guy, but I seriously see tremendous evidence that we have cause for optimism regarding our fellow man, and ourselves. And I am patient enough to wait for that which cannot be achieved by everyone today, as long as some of us achieve it, and soon.
Back to topic; worst example of humanity ends up dead as a result of his terrible actions. Reactions seem more mature than putting his head on a pike and parading him down Wall Street. Hyperbolic rhetoric from some, as expected, but so far, no rioting.
Well, I stopped expecting to hear this news years ago. I'm glad that the world's number one manhunt is finally over, and for the message it sends that we won't let up on something this important. Good work to Obama and US intelligence. I hope this will be a serious blow to AQ morale.
Ajax
I don't think the celebrating has anything to do with what he is, or was, today, but instead, what he put into motion 9 1/2 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
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And what will still be in motion tmrw....get it nowQuote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
I'm complicated damnitQuote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
CorrectQuote:
So in our pursuit of defeating terror and going after Osama, we have shed lots of innocent blood, spent more money than we had, and have continued to expand our empire which you think is a bad thing (obviously).
Dehumanizing the enemy is the oldest trick in the book. Getting two different groups of poor people to kill one another for rich mens geopolitical interests has always required a bit of massaging. So in that sense it is to be expected that people would react in such in over the top wayQuote:
And then when I say I am worried about what this war and game of hide and go seek with Osama has brought about within us you go ahead and start yammering about how this is all to be expected. Why complain at all then?
I don't care about the mans humanity or all that post modern bull. I just weep people are this eaisly swayed by a body that changes nothing at this point. Bin Laden won this game when America sent troops into Iraq, killing him makes for a great headline and thats about it
True that, in the end it doesn't really matter. Good riddance but don't make him more important than he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Well that is a good point. Maybe next time you could just kindly point that out instead of a rolling eyes emoticon?Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Yes it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
However, we can allow some leeway in that rule in this instance, as we did in similar cases of wickedness brought to justice. However, may I remind all posters that this is NOT permission to descend into the more unpleasant depths of the human ability to gloat over the death of an enemy. Please everyone, think before posting.
This is an excellent question (especially for the moderators of this forum).Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
Referencing this case, I would say that the execution of this man can be viewed from a utilitarian perspective and thus celebrated as a practical outcome. I am entirely opposed to capital punishment or extra-judicial executions. Nonetheless, I recognise that arresting and imprisoning bin Laden would have almost certainly cost many further lives as his followers tried over the years to make "statements" about his captivity. In addition, the United States today would not have been able to give him a fair trial - which most sadly of all, is bin Laden's ultimate victory (but can be reversed at any time with the right will). Therefore his death was practical.
I can celebrate the impressive intelligence operation that led to the execution. If only previous administrations had invested in the intelligence infrastructure and capability a long time ago, there would have been little need for all the invasions. Part of accepting the central role that intelligence plays in defeating terrorism is that occasionally the practical execution is necessary - and preserves lives (particularly those of civilians) more effectively than the blunt instruments of war. Morally, that is a pretty smelly compromise, but justifiable. Celebration of aught but the smooth practicality is however, a step too far, in my opinion.
Again in this example, one must recognise that bin Laden expected this moment for some time and probably welcomed it to some extent. We should not judge men like him by our own appreciation of the joys of life, simple joys that his wickedness denied to several thousand ordinary people who were like us. His single death can never atone for those thousands, or indeed the hundreds of thousands of other innocents who have been caught in the geo-political whirlwind he unleashed. My thoughts are with them, and only flickeringly on this evil corpse. One can only hope that his death may bring a sense of justice to the families across the world that he has left bereft - and that, to me, is the only real cause of celebration.
You said you were 'perplexed' by the celebrating. I'm trying to help you understand that it is about long-deferred justice for his many victims. I don't think anyone believes this will end Islamic terrorism, the war in Afghanistan, our involvement in Iraq and Libya, or even the al Qaeda organization.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Perhaps but it gives people that little shot of America crack to keep our boys dying and debt climbingQuote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
I am a bit annoyed by it personally, the euphoria I see as a lack of convidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger
I can't see how this will prolong the current War in Afghanistan? Surely it would shorten now that most people will, inevitably, see the mission as having been 'completed'. With Osama having been forged into the figurehead of terrorism against the United States, and with his organization being touted as the reason for invasion, won't most people see this as 'mission complete'? Bit of a double edged sword for the advocates of the ground war.
I was informed by a Total War friend while I was starting a French campaign in Stainless Steel. So Total War forever has the honor of being associated with this day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
Also, more edits and other media
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The war in Afghanistan hasn't been about al-Qa'eda since abut Day Three.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warluster
The current raison d'etre is to re-build the country sufficiently that the Afghan government can run the place themselves. Since that's likely to be the dark side of never, it's until an arbitrary date for withdrawal can be met. The latter may be politically facilitated by bin Laden's death bit one doubts it - much more dependent on poll ratings/focus groups as the election approaches.
I saw Obama's performance, did not see Seth Meyers'. What was the joke?Quote:
This is a screen cap of Obama when Seth Meyers made the Osama bin Laden joke
He was joking about how hard it is to find bin Laden AND how low C-Span ratings are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
"Some people think he's hiding in the Hindu-Kush, but did you know that every day from 3pm to 4pm he hosts a show on C-Span?"
Apparently, his show's been cancelled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphic
After reading Robert Fisk's interviews with Osama bin Laden, I wonder to what degree he himself was a victim of the mess in the Middle East. This does not justify his actions in any way, but it does make me think. How horrible can your life be if you have to resort to violence acts of such a degree.
I don't think it's a time for celebration. I think it's a time for reflection.
Aparently his body was dumpen in the sea, DNA will be investigated. Que?
sniff sniff what's that smell
That's the thing, though. He didn't *have* to resort to attacking innocent civilians on 9/11.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Arab
Had he legitimate beef with the United States, he might have gone the path of Gandhi and protested bases here or foreign policy there. Instead, he mass murdered a bunch of innocent people, which means he surrenders any moral high ground he could ever have dreamt he had. He also completely destroyed whatever obectives he could have had, because his war against the United States only made things far worse for innocent people in the Middle East because of the wars, and cost him the lives of thousands of sympathizers and allies. I'm all for reflection, as you might have noticed above, but had Osama spent a little bit more time reflecting on the wisdom and righteousness of destroying the innocent, he might still be alive today, and not hated by literally billions.
Osama bin Laden was a product of rich Saudi society. He was privileged beyond belief and had a perfectly decent education. He was no victim in any manner whatsoever. He used his wealth and privilege to create victims and took pleasure in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Arab
Wicked and evil man.
Maybe not so much a victim as a product. I don't have any reason to think that he orchestrated the 9/11 attacks just because.
I'm not giving a moral justification for his action, that would be quite impossible. I'm just not too eager in joining in with the celebration of the death of a human being.Quote:
Had he legitimate beef with the United States, he might have gone the path of Gandhi and protested bases here or foreign policy there. Instead, he mass murdered a bunch of innocent people, which means he surrenders any moral high ground he could ever have dreamt he had. He also completely destroyed whatever obectives he could have had, because his war against the United States only made things far worse for innocent people in the Middle East because of the wars, and cost him the lives of thousands of sympathizers and allies.
I won't celebrate, but I won't regret his death either. Justice has been served. A nod to the US :bow:
I'm not so sure I would offer him the solace of "product" either. Both words indicate a passive "done-unto" status that I consider wholly inappropriate to bin Laden. One might reflect on how those words describe the poor, uneducated fools that he recruited and inspired to kill themselves among others, but not bin Laden.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mad Arab
We can assess the mistakes made in our own governments' facilitation of this mercenary, but we should not mistake him for a person carried by events. Any examination of his life shows him to be a calculating enabler, motivated by his own warped sense of a religious message and a remarkably fluid set of "principles" largely driven by his own self-belief. When someone didn't do what he thought should be done, he changed sides. He entertained no doubts, no lack of certainty, no moral reflections. Whilst he was able to use the Middle East mess to recruit and motivate the foolish to blow themselves up, he knew very well that he was making things worse, not better, for the majority of people in that region. Indeed, that was his whole purpose, as his horrific value system made it imperative that they suffered for not being as "pure" as he.
No, he created his Fate himself, and drew thousands into death because of it.
One head off the monstrous hydra he helped create.
Liquidation no less, no time for all that silly courtroom nonsense, witness testimonies, trial, etc.
I'd liked to have seen him explain why his ideology makes 12-year-olds strap on suicide bombs.
But anyway, now what? NATO can pull out of Afghanistan and save face. Cool. But what about the Afghans? Will the world allow the Taliban to return to power and oust that douchebag president/restaurant owner in Kabul? And what will Pakistan's excuse be? Don't tell me ISI didn't know OBL was living where he did.
Oh, and to whoever collects the reward on this one, thanks for the tip.
Sums it up. kthxbye beard it has been emotionalQuote:
Originally Posted by Andres
@Banquo: Fair enough.
Goldstein is dead?
Hmmmmmm...
Great news to start up your day with! America, **** YEAH! :unitedstates:
@ACIN: Sorry, old chap, but your question is disingenuous. We did not hate Osama because "he celebrated death". We hated him because, amongst other reasons, he was a massmurdering terrorist. Of course its right for us to celebrate him being brought to justice with our bullets.
@The Mad Arab: Your attempt to invoke sympathy for a massmurdering fascist who wished to destroy everything that is culture and reinstate an old oppressive empire is telling.