Time Travelers Timewarp [Concluded]

Time Travelers Timewarp
https://img831.imageshack.us/img831/4319/clockgm.jpg

As the clock struck 13 in the Temporal Institute of Menological Equilibrium or T.I.M.E the police in charge of the space time continuum were very concerned. For over the last few weeks many time travellers had gone back and forward in the time stream causing untold damage to the very nature of time. As the very core of the Temporal Institute of Menological Equilibrium, the Giant Hourglass of Time began to crumble the T.I.M.E decide on a drastic course of action. The head of T.I.M.E nodded to his underling to insert the fail-safe device for the restoration of time. The underling lent forward and entered the code Flux Capacitor with that a sudden burst of light entered the T.I.M.E buildings and all sorts of people began appearing one after another into the room, these were the Time Travellers of the world and time. For you see the fail-safe was only a temporary fix to the space time continuum in order for the fix to be made permanent all records of Time Travel and by consequence Time Travellers needed to be eliminated. The jump into T.I.M.E had drained much of the power of the individual Time Travellers devices and anyway being in the very centre of T.I.M.E caused problems anyway. The Time Travellers quickly realised they could only jump back to the time they had arrived at the Temporal Institute of Menological Equilibrium. The head of the Temporal Institute of Menological Equilibrium rose and began to speak.

"Time Travelers you have all being found guilty of the destruction of the space time continuum the penalty for such an act is death. Give up now and it shall be a quick death if you struggle it shall be much more painful for you."

The Time Travellers being all people of great scientific minds felt that they could figure out a way to get out of the time field most likely by killing the Time Police standing in their ways. The Time Police for their part relished the idea of using all their knowledge to out wit the arrogant time travellers. The game of Time was about to begin.



Gameplay

This is going to be a fairly standard kind of set up for a game with one major exception. Every single character will have the ability to go back to either a night or a day phase at any time in the game and change their action on that day or night. Thus being dead in this game is a purely temporary thing and you never know when you might come back.

Looking for 17 people

For now simply say what Time Travellers you would like to see in the game I already have a few in mind but it would be good to have a greater variety so if there are any you want in please name them.

Rules

When you die the game is not over for you. Since at any point you might come back in the game you must continue to send in votes and night actions the same as anyone else if you are resurrected these actions will go into force straight away.

All the standard rules apply not screenshotting

Vote No lynch is acceptable.

Sign Ups
17/17
Montmorency
Visorslash
CountArach
Lewwyn
Daveshack
Chaotix
Atheothos
Yaropolk
Arjos
Reidquat
Salmonsoil
Ishmael
LazyMcCrow
Edse
Tuuvi
Greyblades
Khann

Let's do the Time Warp again.

Saw this idea before, it intrigued me. Sign me up, because you will need players.

Can I have a Delore-in?

This is going to be my first game in probably a year and a half. Be gentle guys.

in then.

I am caught in this game's vortex.

Interesting concept, can't miss it.

(But if I do, I can of course just go back in time to find it again.)

sounds INteresting!

Count me in. Some possible time travellers - Leonardo DaVinci, Jules Verne

In and I'd like to see Nikola Tesla ^^

IN! Please!

Very interesting. In

In please, and how has Albert Einstein not been mentioned? I haven't actually played the Red Alert games, but I still know about that. :beam:

Sounds like this is going to make me dizzy. Dizzy Gillespie?

In. :2thumbsup:

In as well.

It shouldn't be that confusing I hope if anything the confusion will happen on my end. Basically when a person going back in time changes an outcome you will simply appear or disappear in the next write up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ishmael

In please, and how has Albert Einstein not been mentioned? I haven't actually played the Red Alert games, but I still know about that. :beam:

---

Ah yes, Command and Conquer: Red Alert. Clearly Albert Einstein's greatest achievement. Shouldn't remember him for anything else!

I'm in.

Only two more needed to sign up. I can run the game with 15 easily so I will begin to get cracking on the role pm's

In.

Hmm. Color me curious.

:charge:

I have a question about mechanics - if you go back in time and cause a person's death, will that change only the person directly affected by your actions, or also people affected by their victim's actions and so on? For example, say Player A kills Player B early in the game, and later Player C changes their vote one day phase so that Player A was lynched before this happens. Would the result be that both Players A and B are dead, or that Player A is dead and Player B is now alive? If the latter, I imagine it could be confusing with long chains, but I might be over-thinking things (I wonder if it's possible to create a logical loop? *fetches pen and paper*)

EDIT:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yaropolk

Ah yes, Command and Conquer: Red Alert. Clearly Albert Einstein's greatest achievement. Shouldn't remember him for anything else!

---

Oh yes, he made some famous theory or something, with light and stuff. I know that because that's what he used to go back in time in the Red Alert games. :clown:

Reserve me in case someone drops out or cannot fulfill their temporal duties.

Consider me a temporal temp.

It will affect the chains of people as well. There will be no alignment reveals obviously. I wanted this to be a game where a comeback is possible at any stage at the game even when you think it is all done and won you could still lose.

Role PM completed sending out now.

A few Notes

To make things somewhat simpler for me my version of time travel will be that whilst you are in the past time keeps on moving in the present. Thus if you choose to go back in time during a night phase you can not do any other action that night.

Time Paradox. If a time paradox occurs which I don't think it will both parties involved will be killed by T.I.M.E since their powers extend to ensuring no paradox's may occur.

Finally the time machines will also prevent multiple time travel versions of yourself from being in the same spot. Like A Sound of Thunder. Thus you can only go to a given day or Night Once.

If anyone has any questions about the Time Travel Mechanic ask away I will give as much away as I can.

Gentlemen, I must express my sincere belief that our extinction at this stage would be in the best interest of All Things.

For our actions have in fact arrived at the worst conclusions imaginable. We bear this responsibility, though not having foreseen the folly.

Vote: Montmorency

:stare:

Vote: Visor

Believe it.

I'll TARDIS your ass back to the Stone Age.

Very well.

Unvote;

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i494.photobucket.com/albums/.../ninja4ao5.jpg

Alright then how would the sun of Earth do for you then?

Come again?

Vote: CountArach

Welcome back.

Vote: Greyblades

Because he's a Lannister :P

Vote: Arjos

Bite me, Martell. :P

Vote greyblades - because he's above me.

I'm going to lay out a preliminary notion that might help the town, so that you guys can all poke holes in it :beam:. If we keep the voting close (as in, either one vote in it or a tie), then at a later point somebody can go back and change their vote, and thus lynch the other person. If one or more people mysteriously come back to life as a result of this, then we know we've caught a mafioso. If the original lynch was a mafioso, then they still weren't killing between their lynch and resurrection, so the town still comes out ahead. And if the mafia tries to interfere with this somehow, they'll either show their hand or waste their time-travel, which is a net win for the town. So, what have I overlooked?

As a result of the above, vote: Arjos (also because we never got to invade you like we planned :D)

Quote:

---

If one or more people mysteriously come back to life as a result of this, then we know we've caught a mafioso. If the original lynch was a mafioso, then they still weren't killing between their lynch and resurrection, so the town still comes out ahead.

---

First point: it does not obtain that an individual who at a later point alters the vote is Mafia. Not at all.

Second point: look back to the host's notice that orders should be sent nightly, because n the event of resurrection they will immediately be implemented.

Quote:

---

And if the mafia tries to interfere with this somehow, they'll either show their hand or waste their time-travel, which is a net win for the town.

---

Why do you assume limited abilities? There are no one-shots here, as far as I'm aware.

Vote: Ishmael

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chaotix

Vote: CountArach

Welcome back.

---

I said be gentle :angry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Why do you assume limited abilities? There are no one-shots here, as far as I'm aware.

Vote: Ishmael

---

This is a remarkably good point though at the same time it seems unlikely that the mafia would also be one-shot so I don't think that it's is a slip-up.

Regardless I do like the general argument of keeping the voting close until we can be fairly certain. At the very least it gives us the chance of saving any pro town roles. It also makes it harder for the time police/mafia to hide.

Vote: Ishmael

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

First point: it does not obtain that an individual who at a later point alters the vote is Mafia. Not at all.

Second point: look back to the host's notice that orders should be sent nightly, because n the event of resurrection they will immediately be implemented.

---

I'm not suggesting that - I'm saying that if a townie (or a mafioso, theoretically) alters a previous day's lynch then the pattern of kills, and so the people 'presently' alive, will change. That would be a clear indication that the person lynched or un-lynched was mafia (or a serial killer. If there is a vigilante, then all bets are off).

Quote:

---

Why do you assume limited abilities? There are no one-shots here, as far as I'm aware.

---

As I was typing up my response to this, I double-checked my role PM and realised that you are correct on this. Nonetheless, my point still stands (to an extent) as the mafia can't kill on a night that they are time-travelling.

A question for CB - does all time travel occur at night?

A

Quote:

---

question for CB - does all time travel occur at night?

---

No.

Quote:

---

I'm not suggesting that - I'm saying that if a townie (or a mafioso, theoretically) alters a previous day's lynch then the pattern of kills, and so the people 'presently' alive, will change. That would be a clear indication that the person lynched or un-lynched was mafia (or a serial killer. If there is a vigilante, then all bets are off).

---

Well, this doesn't quite work. I need to reformulate...

This scenario is possible if dead players can cast Potential Votes, made effective in the event of undeath:

Townie votes for A on Dx. A is lynched in tie-vote with B. A casts Potential Vote on Y, who is Mafia.
On D(x+1) X wins a tie-vote with Y. Y is scum, and puts in a Potential Kill on Z (for N[x+1]).
On D/N(x+2), Townie goes back to change vote to B. B is lynched, A is unlynched, so Y is unlynched, and Z is Night-Killed on N(x+1).

And yet, Neither A nor B were scum.

I can't be bothered to look back; is that condition accounted for in the rules? :blush:

This can get pretty convoluted. I think we're guaranteed to see a paradox or two; good that those responsible will be killed off as a rule.

Good point, potential votes would throw things out of whack. I still maintain that even then, by reversing lynches we can gain useful information, as long as the town thinks it through carefully and doesn't leap to false conclusions.

As to my earlier question, I phrased it poorly - what I meant to ask was whether time travel is always a night action, or can be used during a day phase. I assume it's the former, otherwise the mafia would be able to kill people at their normal rate whilst also wreaking havoc by time-travelling during the day phases.

I take it to be once per round (i.e. day+night).

Unvote;

I'm confused, can you please explain that in a vaguely non-mathematical way?

The more I think about this the more I realise that our best bet would be to have an almost tied vote every day between two different people so that at any given point we can go back and change to lynch someone that we suspect. That is to say at the end of day 2 we will have 4 people who are able to be killed at short notice, at the end of day 3 we have 6 people, etc, etc. This would mean that the degree of certainty that we need to lynch someone who is scum would be lower, as we can just make any real suspects one of these two people.

That would surely depend on the number of players with vote-changing abilities, and their alignments.

It would be better seal the deal and take the consequences, rather than open up the possibility for shenanigans which I don't have the inclination to fathom ATM.

Noticed an error, corrected in bold:

Townie votes for A on Dx. A is lynched in tie-vote with B. A casts Potential Vote on X (not Y).
On D(x+1) X wins a tie-vote with Y. Y is scum, and puts in a Potential Kill on Z (for N[x+1]).
On D/N(x+2), Townie goes back to change vote to B. B is lynched, A is unlynched, so Y is unlynched, and Z is Night-Killed on N(x+1).

Basically, if players can cast votes which are redeemed in event of undeath (and we know scum can place kill orders in the same manner), then it is possible to arrive at a result wherein a vote-change ability is used that inadvertently resurrects a Timecop, who then has been around to NK a townie who would otherwise have lived.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

That would surely depend on the number of players with vote-changing abilities, and their alignments.

---

Assuming that all townies can go back and change their vote on any given day then it shouldn't be a problem. In fact it naturally plays into the town's advantage of numerical superiority.

What is your ability?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Basically, if players can cast votes which are redeemed in event of undeath (and we know scum can place kill orders in the same manner), then it is possible to arrive at a result wherein a vote-change ability is used that inadvertently resurrects a Timecop, who then has been around to NK a townie who would otherwise have lived.

---

But that would give us the certainty that they are a time cop and they can be lynched either during the day phase or by going back in time and lynching them again - which would allow for a double lynch.

Quote:

---

But that would give us the certainty that they are a time cop and they can be lynched either during the day phase or by going back in time and lynching them again - which would allow for a double lynch.

---

But if there should be more than one link in the chain, we couldn't be sure? That was the simpliest example I could conceive, after all...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

What is your ability?

---

Vote chaning. Et tu?

Sure.

And now we all have to prove it tonight?

Hoo boy. Any stats guys want to develop a game-plan for all of us, that would guarantee alignment confirmation based on determined votes and vote-changes?

We need outside experts!

We should go with the near-tie vote plan. Every day we do this gives over half of the players the power to change who lives and dies on every day after that day. After a few days we will all have the power to change who is alive and dead. Because everyone will abuse this power to try kill people who they believe are scum or save those they think are innocent, we will arrive at a state where who is alive and who is dead is constantly shifting. This means that we will rapidly shift through the different possible combinations of alive / dead players. As soon as we hit a combination where both scum are dead, we win.

In this situation it is actually better to have as many peoples lives threatened by the near-tie vote, as it gives more players power over life/death on that day and allows for more combinations. At the moment Ishmael, Arjos and Greyblades all have 2 votes. I will vote: Montmorency so that he now also has two votes.

I think it is a grave mistake to assume that

Quote:

---

As soon as we hit a combination where both scum are dead, we win.

---

is the logical conclusion.

Why do you say over half, by the way?

Alright, 2/16 have claimed a vote-change ability.

So...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Alright, 2/16 have claimed a vote-change ability.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Captain Blackadder

This is going to be a fairly standard kind of set up for a game with one major exception. Every single character will have the ability to go back to either a night or a day phase at any time in the game and change their action on that day or night.

---

Judging by this, I'd say that everybody has a 'vote-changing ability' - it doesn't appear to be unique. If their are doctors or vigilantes, I imagine they could change their orders as well, but I doubt there are seeing as it would make things more complicated and the host said it would be a fairly standard game.

EDIT: Yay, I just reached the devil post count! I'm tempted to leave the .Org now and never come back, just to preserve it. :beam:

^^ I agree with Ishamel.

I don't believe that there is any doctors or vigilantes. Simply too complicated. It's a standard vanilla game, 14 town and 3 mafia, IMO.

Well, that's embarassing! Of course, that means a cop could go go back in time instead of kill (while dead).

With everyone flipping around their votes willy nilly, you won't learn a single useful thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CB

It shouldn't be that confusing I hope if anything the confusion will happen on my end. Basically when a person going back in time changes an outcome you will simply appear or disappear in the next write up.

---

So Vote: Count Arach.

Go ahead. Let's have half the players tied. I'd love to see how this works out.

Quote:

---

It's a standard vanilla game, 14 town and 3 mafia, IMO.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CB

When you die the game is not over for you. Since at any point you might come back in the game you must continue to send in votes and night actions the same as anyone else if you are resurrected these actions will go into force straight away.

---

I was right about this. Also, why do you think there are 3, necessarily. Could be 2, could be 4.

Vespasian. 3 mafioso. It is also the general accepted standard here if I'm not wrong?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Visorslash

Vespasian. 3 mafioso. It is also the general accepted standard here if I'm not wrong?

---

I would have assumed 2 for a game this size.

Interesting. Chain switching votes and deaths. So if we play out 4 days and then someone comes back in time and lynches a mafia on Day 1 do those that were night-killed after day 1 come back to life? Does each mafia have an individual kill or do they choose who is doing the kill for that night and if we get the right mafia it effects the kill stream?

If we're going to do this 2 by 2 I'm going to vote for someone not on the block already. Vote: Yaropolk Yesterday's friends, today's possible enemy.

I did some calculations to see if we can kill the mafia just by sweeping through as many possibilities as possible:

Firstly, if there are two mafia there are 136 different possible combinations of players who could be mafia. If there are 3 there are 680 and if there are 4 there are 2380.
Assuming the worst possible circumstances following my plan (only tie-voting 2 people each day, excluding today where we seem to be ready to tie-vote 5), we will have all the possible combinations of players available to us by day 6 (assuming two mafia), if we tie-vote 3 people each day (assuming 5 today), we will have all the possible combinations of 2 mafia by day 4 (except 1, which is too small a chance to be of concern), all the possible combinations of 3 mafia by day 6 and all the possible combinations of 4 by day 7. This all assumes 1 night kill for the entire mafia (in which case we will survive to day 7), and that no paradoxes occur (and I believe one is likely to at some point). This also assumes no other power roles.
These numbers are all overestimates however, because the nature of this game means that the combinations of live/dead players will be closely related to individual player action and not pure chance. Thus we will have to both scum hunt and gain near tie-votes every round.

In response to Monty, who asked why a near tie-vote would give over half of players power over that days outcome; Imagine A, B and C all vote for X, whilst X and Y vote for A. X is lynched. After that day A, B and C will have the power to change the outcome of that days lynch by changing their vote from X to A, whereas X and Y do not have the same power because changing their vote to X will not change the outcome. This can be overcome by working with other players, but that isn't as powerful as being able to change the vote without help.

Now onto scum hunting. I believe Monty is scum because he didn't know that everyone had time traveling powers, if he had got the town role pm and read it then he would have been told that he has time traveling powers and would probably have assumed that everyone else who is town also did. So either he is guilty, or a power role (if they exist).
The only other alternatives are that either he didn't notice his pm and assumed he was town or he skimmed his pm, which seems unlikely.

I should also add that if I have convinced anyone that Monty is guilty we still need to stick to the near-tie vote plan, so don't wagon on him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SalmonSoil

Now onto scum hunting. I believe Monty is scum because he didn't know that everyone had time traveling powers, if he had got the town role pm and read it then he would have been told that he has time traveling powers and would probably have assumed that everyone else who is town also did. So either he is guilty, or a power role (if they exist).
The only other alternatives are that either he didn't notice his pm and assumed he was town or he skimmed his pm, which seems unlikely.

---

I think Monty is guilty too. He seems kinda belligerent as well, and is against us having any sort of plan.

I'm gonna Vote: Yaropolk in accordance with the near-tie vote plan.

Also, a noob question: what is a power role?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuuvi

Also, a noob question: what is a power role?

---

Pretty much exactly what it sounds like.

Any player that has a "power" outside that of a normal townie, such as investigation, roleblock, protection, etc. is considered a "power role".

Technically, you could consider the mafia "power roles", but when people use the term they usually mean pro-town or at least neutral roles.

In this game, you might consider every player a power role since we can all go back in time. But if everyone is a power role, then you might say no one is a power role...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SalmonSoil

Now onto scum hunting. I believe Monty is scum because he didn't know that everyone had time traveling powers, if he had got the town role pm and read it then he would have been told that he has time traveling powers and would probably have assumed that everyone else who is town also did. So either he is guilty, or a power role (if they exist).
The only other alternatives are that either he didn't notice his pm and assumed he was town or he skimmed his pm, which seems unlikely.

---

To be fair to Montmorency, I did almost exactly the same thing earlier when I skimmed my role PM and assumed that everybody could only go back in time once. It's by no means conclusive, or even overly indicative (Monty, please don't actually be scum now or I'll be lynched because of this post).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SalmonSoil

.Now onto scum hunting. I believe Monty is scum because he didn't know that everyone had time traveling powers, if he had got the town role pm and read it then he would have been told that he has time traveling powers and would probably have assumed that everyone else who is town also did. So either he is guilty, or a power role (if they exist).
The only other alternatives are that either he didn't notice his pm and assumed he was town or he skimmed his pm, which seems unlikely.

---

I must say the town PM was pretty ambiguous as to whether or not it was a town PM which makes me wonder if you yourself have read it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CountArach

I must say the town PM was pretty ambiguous as to whether or not it was a town PM which makes me wonder if you yourself have read it.

---

Hmm, I should probably check that my PM was a town PM. The Time Police are the bad guys, right? :inquisitive:

Quote:

---

I did some calculations to see if we can kill the mafia just by sweeping through as many possibilities as possible:

Firstly, if there are two mafia there are 136 different possible combinations of players who could be mafia. If there are 3 there are 680 and if there are 4 there are 2380.
Assuming the worst possible circumstances following my plan (only tie-voting 2 people each day, excluding today where we seem to be ready to tie-vote 5), we will have all the possible combinations of players available to us by day 6 (assuming two mafia), if we tie-vote 3 people each day (assuming 5 today), we will have all the possible combinations of 2 mafia by day 4 (except 1, which is too small a chance to be of concern), all the possible combinations of 3 mafia by day 6 and all the possible combinations of 4 by day 7. This all assumes 1 night kill for the entire mafia (in which case we will survive to day 7), and that no paradoxes occur (and I believe one is likely to at some point). This also assumes no other power roles.
These numbers are all overestimates however, because the nature of this game means that the combinations of live/dead players will be closely related to individual player action and not pure chance. Thus we will have to both scum hunt and gain near tie-votes every round.

---

o

Depends on town's ability not to repeat players in the ties.Your maths are a bit useless, as they can't be applied to anything. Not only that, but they have it the other way around.

Quote:

---

In response to Monty, who asked why a near tie-vote would give over half of players power over that days outcome; Imagine A, B and C all vote for X, whilst X and Y vote for A. X is lynched. After that day A, B and C will have the power to change the outcome of that days lynch by changing their vote from X to A, whereas X and Y do not have the same power because changing their vote to X will not change the outcome. This can be overcome by working with other players, but that isn't as powerful as being able to change the vote without help.

---

What? When did I ask this? I think you've misread my posts.

Quote:

---

Now onto scum hunting. I believe Monty is scum because he didn't know that everyone had time traveling powers, if he had got the town role pm and read it then he would have been told that he has time traveling powers and would probably have assumed that everyone else who is town also did. So either he is guilty, or a power role (if they exist).
The only other alternatives are that either he didn't notice his pm and assumed he was town or he skimmed his pm, which seems unlikely

---

Hm, no, that's a horrible thing to assume. Why would anyone assume that? The reason I should have known that everyone has this power is because it says so in the OP.

I believe this is a pretty poor plan because it muddles absolutely everything and tells us absolutely nothing. If we tie multiple people a day, we practically guarantee a "future" change in the lynch. What exactly is the benefit in this?

Vote: SalmonSoil

Hunchity hunch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

I believe this is a pretty poor plan because it muddles absolutely everything and tells us absolutely nothing. If we tie multiple people a day, we practically guarantee a "future" change in the lynch. What exactly is the benefit in this?

---

But the ability to change things is our biggest advantage.

It's not a collective ability, it is the individual ability of each and every player.

That means Mafia can change the vote as easily as a townie.

Or would you place yourself at the head of things here? "Everyone, change your vote to X tonight".

You believe these orders will be followed without question?

When does this day end? The "starting now" post didn't say.

Big mistake trying to digest that right before bed. I tend towards having lucid problem-solving dreams, my subconscious will be going nuts trying to find out what voting pattern is needed to make it easier to find the mafia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CountArach

I must say the town PM was pretty ambiguous as to whether or not it was a town PM which makes me wonder if you yourself have read it.

---

I assume quoting the role PM's is allowed right? "See the time police destroyed" is pretty unambiguous, I'm now wondering whether you received a town PM. Again, I can see how the abilities info would be missed if the PM was skimmed. I'm not saying this evidence against Monty is conclusive, but it's day one, I don't expect conclusive evidence for a day one lynch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

o

Depends on town's ability not to repeat players in the ties.Your maths are a bit useless, as they can't be applied to anything. Not only that, but they have it the other way around.

---

This does depend on town working together, yeah. Yes maths can't be applied perfectly, because they ignore so much, but I think they indicate pretty good chances if there are only two mafia, and remember this method will be combined with scum hunting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

What? When did I ask this? I think you've misread my posts.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Why do you say over half, by the way?

---

I assumed you were asking about why I stated that a near tie-vote gives over half of the players power over that days lynch. Sorry if I misinterpreted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Hm, no, that's a horrible thing to assume. Why would anyone assume that? The reason I should have known that everyone has this power is because it says so in the OP.

---

Hmm, point taken. I probably just took my knowledge from the OP and unconsciously applied it to my PM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

I believe this is a pretty poor plan because it muddles absolutely everything and tells us absolutely nothing. If we tie multiple people a day, we practically guarantee a "future" change in the lynch. What exactly is the benefit in this?

---

The goal of this plan isn't to find the mafia, the goal is to make it easier to lynch them. Assuming only one mafia kill per night and no serial killer it will take the Mafia 7 days to win if neither die. In a standard game this means 7 lynches to find the mafia, but in this game using this plan we can lynch anyone at any time, essentially giving us hundreds of possible lynch combinations to choose from. I'm not saying we just roll the dice to test every possible combination of lynches, what I intend is something more like this, say on day 4 I think that A and B are guilty A was almost lynched on day 2 and B was almost lynched on day 3. If I can convince a small number of other people to work with me, we can have A and B lynched right away, without needing to gain a majority vote. if we don't win, then we were wrong and the mistake can be remedied.

Placing people several votes away from resurrection benefits mafia as the person is more likely to be innocent than guilty. If by some chance we do become incredibly certain that some one is mafia there is no reason we can't just wagon them out of reach of time travel, and then resume the tie vote plan next turn.

Also you say this plan wont tell us anything, but this day one has been more serious than most day ones are. I'm sure the mafia will still be uneasy about being one of the suspects in a tie-vote, as it makes it easier to lynch them. I do think the tie vote this round is a bit ridiculous, I think 3 or 4 suspects is the best balance as it will place more pressure on mafia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

It's not a collective ability, it is the individual ability of each and every player.

That means Mafia can change the vote as easily as a townie.

Or would you place yourself at the head of things here? "Everyone, change your vote to X tonight".

You believe these orders will be followed without question?

---

I would encourage people to go nuts and change the vote however they like. As long as there is a change in the lynch it gives the town more information, whether the change is initiated by a mafioso or a townie. With a little deductive work we should be able to figure out exactly how things have changed each day (based on who's come back to life and/or died), and that should hopefully allow us to catch the mafia by determining when nightkills are changed and why. In fact, I would go so far as to say that having everybody do their own thing is better, as the randomness will help foil any attempts by the scum to derail things. The one thing the town does have to work together in, however, is keeping the lynches tight - ideally a single changed vote should be enough to change the lynch on any particular day phase.

That ignores the law of unintended consequences.

What if the unlynched players cast Potential Votes such that a mafioso is unlynched with their implementation, or something like that?

It is very important to note two things:

1. There is no way to tell if 1 to x-1 mafiosi have been lynched, x being the total # of Mafiosi. This makes it even easier to accidentally rescue scum.
2. There are no second chances. You only get to change your vote on a particular day once. Choose wisely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ishmael

I would encourage people to go nuts and change the vote however they like. As long as there is a change in the lynch it gives the town more information, whether the change is initiated by a mafioso or a townie. With a little deductive work we should be able to figure out exactly how things have changed each day (based on who's come back to life and/or died), and that should hopefully allow us to catch the mafia by determining when nightkills are changed and why. In fact, I would go so far as to say that having everybody do their own thing is better, as the randomness will help foil any attempts by the scum to derail things. The one thing the town does have to work together in, however, is keeping the lynches tight - ideally a single changed vote should be enough to change the lynch on any particular day phase.

---

If there is more than 1 scum, night kills should never change. One vote will not be enough, if more than a dozen individuals are switching around.

Say today we have 5 candidates with 2 votes each. Perhaps someone else entirely (a sixth!) will wind up being lynched as a result of the cumulative changes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

If there is more than 1 scum, night kills should never change.

---

...I have managed to completely overlook this point. Okay, time to rethink things.

Whatever the case, it is clear that things will only get more convoluted as times goes on. If the D1 lynch is changed after tonight, or the D2 lynch after N2, etc...

then all analysis goes down the toilet.

But then again, it would on the flipside be increasingly difficult to effect such a change. Since vote tallies will not be updated based on changes (the only indication is a remix of the...)....

On an unrelated note, has CB mentioned anywhere what the result of a tied lynch is?