Football, Russia, Poland, Hooligans...

10 wounded, 100 arrested... Rough numbers.

It turns out that Polish people at large frown when more than 5000 Russians march through their streets screaming the country still belongs to them. And some obviously decided to do something about it, physically.

I find it sad that an international event like this has to be tarnished with stupid violence.

But I guess kudos to the Polish police, seems like they did their best to protect the Russian fanatics, even though they probably would have preferred to turn on them themselves rather than support them.

This was before the game, let's see what happens after.

My guess? More blood will hit the streets before this day is over.

poles are stupid.

and i find it incredibly ironic how vicious and violent soccer fans are about the sport whose players are undeniably wimps.

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Originally Posted by Centurion1

poles are stupid.

and i find it incredibly ironic how vicious and violent soccer fans are about the sport whose players are undeniably wimps.

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I... I have no idea how you, from what I wrote, drew the conclusion that a whole national people are stupid.

In this case, I can't really blame the Polish people much, to be honest.

Poland and Russia have a long and violent history, with very fresh scars in the Polish mindset. Thousands of very eagerly nationalistic Russians marching through their streets doing their absolute best to provoke is more than they could take, and more than they should be expected to take.

Bad style from the Russian supporters, I'd say.

At the stadium, it looked like this:

http://gfx.aftonbladet-cdn.se/image/...-EURO__359.JPG


Again, VERY bad style from the Russians.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

At the stadium, it looked like this:

http://gfx.aftonbladet-cdn.se/image/...-EURO__359.JPG

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How do you get something that big into the stadium without security confiscating it? :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by drone

How do you get something that big into the stadium without security confiscating it? :inquisitive:

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Because it isn't TSA handling security, but people with a brain?

Update: 15 wounded and 140 arrested.

I'm not sure "wounded" is the right term, "hospitalized" rather. I'm pretty sure more people than that are limping around.

Thankfully the early rumor of someone being killed seems to be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I... I have no idea how you, from what I wrote, drew the conclusion that a whole national people are stupid.

In this case, I can't really blame the Polish people much, to be honest.

Poland and Russia have a long and violent history, with very fresh scars in the Polish mindset. Thousands of very eagerly nationalistic Russians marching through their streets doing their absolute best to provoke is more than they could take, and more than they should be expected to take.

Bad style from the Russian supporters, I'd say.

At the stadium, it looked like this:

http://gfx.aftonbladet-cdn.se/image/...-EURO__359.JPG


Again, VERY bad style from the Russians.

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What you wrote has no influence on my preconceived notions regarding the intellectual capacity of an entire nation of
People. While I do not like poles very much for numerous reasons non of which I find necessary to share with you I also was making a flippant statement. It would be rather dense to hold
Such an opinion on millions of people.

Having the tournament there wasn't the best of ideas, Ukraine a even worse one

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Originally Posted by Centurion1

What you wrote has no influence on my preconceived notions regarding the intellectual capacity of an entire nation of
People. While I do not like poles very much for numerous reasons non of which I find necessary to share with you I also was making a flippant statement. It would be rather dense to hold
Such an opinion on millions of people.

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I agree with the "dense" part.




Fragony, why?

We had the Chinese Olympics, no?

Sports should make a bridge between nations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18192375

There has been lots of coverage, especially in Panorama about the racism in Poland and the Ukraine. There are some real disturbing sights.

It's not like the official quote for the games is "Respect"...


It's... It's almost like some clever being thought bringing the tournament there thought it would help.

Sure Ukraine has issues, so does the USA, but I saw the USA Olympics as something positive.

Bit of a difference, if I were black I would avoid these countries like the plague.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Centurion1

What you wrote has no influence on my preconceived notions regarding the intellectual capacity of an entire nation of
People. While I do not like poles very much for numerous reasons non of which I find necessary to share with you I also was making a flippant statement. It would be rather dense to hold
Such an opinion on millions of people.

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What's your nationality, may I ask?

Funny how English, who "invented" football violence and are still most notorious hooligans around Europe get to preach on violence and racism.

Just shut up, let someone else do it.

Well I actually seen it kicking off last night cos we were less than 100-150m from a huge crowd of lunatics trying to rush the police.

There wasnt much tension in the city centre earlier on in the day but then apparently it all happened at the march or some scuffles outside the fanzone.

I think allowing the match to be held on such a significant date for russians was wrong along with allowing the march and big flag too.






edit

there is something going on outside right now this morning I can hear lots of sirens and sound like three or four flashbangs maybe more.

seems to be calming down a bit they must have clamped down on it quick whatever it was this morning.

I now have the distinction of knowing the difference in sound between a large firework and a flashbang.




Also lets get real here these are just your typical scumbags attempting mayhem same as anywhere the city is perfectly safe (just keep your wits about you)

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Funny how English, who "invented" football violence and are still most notorious hooligans around Europe get to preach on violence and racism.

Just shut up, let someone else do it.

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You know where it was also violent,

Türkiye!

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Originally Posted by Hax

Türkiye!

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Absolutely not, Beatrix von Amsberg zur Lippe-Biesterfelt, or our queen as some call her, would never go there to raise a glass if any human rights were violated.

Wait

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Funny how English, who "invented" football violence and are still most notorious hooligans around Europe get to preach on violence and racism.

Just shut up, let someone else do it.

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Who are the English people doing the preaching? Kadagar's not English, Centurion's not, Fragony's not ... Is anyone who's posted yet in this thread even English besides Tiaexz (and his response didn't seem to have much preaching)?

Ajax

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Originally Posted by Shaka_Khan

What's your nationality, may I ask?

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More than ten different European nations an a smattering of Asia.

It's not a real dislike it's flippant in that I may make a "pollack" joke or something along those lines. I have friends who are polish it doesn't actually bother me.

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Originally Posted by Centurion1

More than ten different European nations an a smattering of Asia.

It's not a real dislike it's flippant in that I may make a "pollack" joke or something along those lines. I have friends who are polish it doesn't actually bother me.

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See the problem is you are not smart nor funny.

So you come off as being stupid.

But don't worry, some of my best friends are mouth breathing idiots.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

See the problem is you are not smart nor funny.

So you come off as being stupid.

But don't worry, some of my best friends are mouth breathing idiots.

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It's not often that I agree with SFTS :)

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

See the problem is you are not smart nor funny.

So you come off as being stupid.

But don't worry, some of my best friends are mouth breathing idiots.

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Oh Strike do we really have to teach you your own language, 'you are not smart nor funny' is a double negative, 'you are not smart or funny' or 'you are smart nor funny' is the way to go

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Oh Strike do we really have to teach you your own language, 'you are not smart nor funny' is a double negative, 'you are not smart or funny' or 'you are smart nor funny' is the way to go

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Double negatives a not rules, only suggestions.

Good enough for Shakespere, good enough for me.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Double negatives a not rules, only suggestions.

Good enough for Shakespere, good enough for me.

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Oh ouch, a double one that is serial faillure. Keep in mind that I don't actually like trainwrecks, I can just see them

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Oh ouch, a double one that is serial faillure. Keep in mind that I don't actually like trainwrecks, I can just see them

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I have a learning disability?

*finger to mouth* Schhhhh Frags...

Don't tell them, "I ain't no stupid" represents Texas to me :)

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

I have a learning disability?

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I don't know you tell me

Next time use live ammo.

~:smoking:

Fragony correcting others on the fineties of grammar.

Tis truly not long to kingdom come.

Of all the brain-numbing stupidity sourounding this tournament, this isn't one of them. No nation is without hooligans and casuals.

No, there are actual cases of stupidity in euro 2012. I can name a few of them:

- giving it to Poland AND Ukraine was idiotic to begin with. Both nations could've hosted alone. Portugal has far less inhabitants than both countries and hosted alone. Belgium/netherlands was OK, as honestly they should just get over themselves and merge. Switzerland/Austria was stretching it. Poland/Ukraine is nonsense.
- Russian and Polish fans attended the germany-denmark match. No problem. Until they showed their mental deficiences and started singing to each other. A germany-denmark match is about Germany and Denmark. Not Poland and Russia. Idiots.
- No, Ukraine, you don't whistle at Sweden because they retain possession after taking the kick-off. Idiots. You support your own team. Booing at the opposition is appropriate when they act like dorks, not for having the ball.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Belgium/netherlands was OK, as honestly they should just get over themselves and merge. Switzerland/Austria was stretching it.

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Huh? Both Belgium and the Neth's are more populous than either Switzerland or Austria.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

Huh? Both Belgium and the Neth's are more populous than either Switzerland or Austria.

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I was thinking of land area, not population... I know I wasn't very clear.

Going from a stadium in Ukraine to one in Poland takes a day, in Belgium/Netherlands it was a short train ride.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Oh Strike do we really have to teach you your own language, 'you are not smart nor funny' is a double negative, 'you are not smart or funny' or 'you are smart nor funny' is the way to go

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Methinks you don't quite understand the English double negative, Frags (and I don't blame you). Nor has some idiosyncratic quirks; StfS's usage was just fine, even for Standard English.

Ajax

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Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

Methinks you don't quite understand the English double negative, Frags (and I don't blame you). Nor has some idiosyncratic quirks; StfS's usage was just fine, even for Standard English.

Ajax

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Shouldn't it be "neither" instead of "not", though?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Shouldn't it be "neither" instead of "not", though?

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Depends on whether you want to be high class or low class.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hax

Fragony correcting others on the fineties of grammar.

Tis truly not long to kingdom come.

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Shouldn't it be till kingdom come?

You know what, I don't think so!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Shouldn't it be "neither" instead of "not", though?

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That's certainly the more common way to say it.

A search of the Corpus of Contemporary American yields the following number of occurrences (from a field of ~425 million words):

1394: neither [adjective] nor [adjective]
21: not [adjective] nor [adjective]
30: neither [adjective] or [adjective]
839: not [adjective] or [adjective]
208: [adjective] nor [adjective] (bare form with neither neither nor nor preceding it) <-- OK, I just made my own day with that one

So Fragony's alternatives are both more common than SftS's (which would support StfS's usage feeling unnatural to Frags compared to the others), but neither is as common as the neither ... nor option, which happens to have the same pair of negative elements as StfS's. If not ... nor is wrong because it's a double negative, then neither ... nor would be, too, and this is obviously not the case. Essentially, the restriction on double negatives in Standard English doesn't seem to apply to the word nor. There are plenty of structures where nor occurs freely with other negative elements.

Ajax

edit: as far as my personal intuition goes, SftS's usage doesn't sound odd or ungrammatical at all. It feels slightly more emphatic than the alternatives to me.

Holding the tournament in Poland and Ukraine was a a mistake from the off. Both have very big problems with racism, hooliganism and a general dislike for outsiders. The police, whilst trying their best simply aren't up to the challenge. If you were kicked and spat on for simply being a certain nationality, race or even a different football fan the police would be all over the perpetrator like a rash, that is anywhere in Western Europe. The police are either too used to it or harbor such views themselves which can be the only explanation for refusing to act upon such actions. Its quite sad, really, such a poor advert for an otherwise beautiful part of the world. Was actually considering visiting Poland this summer but I think I'll steer clear now.

It's just such a shame that what could have been an expression of Poland and Ukraine's arrival into modern Europe turned out to be the revelation that these two countries are brutal, backward and best avoided.

Yeah, what I reacted to most in the video with the indians being beaten up was that nobody intervened. Nobody helped them. No other supporters. No guards. No police. Just despicable.

I hate crowd mentalilty sometimes, being compelled to not help someone because the people around you arent, the idea makes me sick.

Quote:

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208: [adjective] nor [adjective]

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I'm not sure I grasp this one. Can you give an example?

I'd think up "He is strong nor fast" - what does that mean? T is next to R on most keyboards, so might it just be a typo?

It's a (boolean) algebraic expression. As you might say 5 + 3 = 8, you can say Proposition1 NOR Proposition2 = (NOT Proposition1) AND (NOT Proposition2), otherwise known as one of the laws of De Morgan.

In conversation?

Son, in life there are winners XOR losers.

:inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

I'm not sure I grasp this one. Can you give an example?

I'd think up "He is strong nor fast" - what does that mean? T is next to R on most keyboards, so might it just be a typo?

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Good question. That option struck me as weird as well. It took a different method of searching, since searching for "[adjective] nor [adjective]" returns all the instances with neither or not preceding them as well as any without, so I just subtracted the number of occurrences with each of those, which left 208 still behind. Looking through the results more carefully, it looks like most of these instances also have a neither or not associated with them, just not coming immediately before. For example, "neither well reasoned nor good," "neither totally tame nor wild," "neither inherently good nor bad."

In some cases, the not has been extracted into a higher clause: "... the process which I believe you do not think was bipartisan nor transparent," "I do not believe it wise nor proper to force employees to follow a set of values they do not accept."

There are instances without neither or not (whether immediately before the first adjective or a little further removed), and these cases have instead another negated word preceding them: "There are a lot of nutritionists who say nothing is bad nor good, it's just the amount," "with credit that is no longer cheap nor easy to obtain," "For there is no more reasonable nor powerful assumption ..."

After a little searching through the returns, I'm not finding any instances of nor without another negative first licensing it, and no such instances are coming readily to mind, either. Far from it being ungrammatical for nor to occur with another negative-marked word in English, I think it's obligatory.

Ajax

Sorry but you are wrong

'See the problem is you are not smart nor funny.'

Not and nor cancel eachother out.

So yes, either 'you are not smart or funny' or 'you are smart nor funny'

Am I the only one who have noticed how hot the Ukranian girls at large are though?

Fit bodies, cute faces... and white...

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Am I the only one who have noticed how hot the Ukranian girls at large are though?

Fit bodies, cute faces... and white...

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I usually dislike feminists because they never complain about inequality on the garbage-truck but I make an exception for the Femen girls, Ukrainian feminist group who understand that boobs gets them attention



http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/the-best-of-femen-nsfw

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Originally Posted by Fragony

I usually dislike feminists because they never complain about inequality on the garbage-truck but I make an exception for the Femen girls, Ukrainian feminist group who understand that boobs gets them attention



http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/the-best-of-femen-nsfw

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I wish that branch of feminism would spread to Sweden...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I wish that branch of feminism would spread to Sweden...

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You just might get lucky when ski season opens, but you will get lucky anyway won't you

#15 by the way kthx

# 6 and # 23 <- why settle for one?

And what can I say, I am blessed :humble:

# 6 and # 23 <- why settle for one?

And what can I say, I am blessed :humble:

# 6 and # 23 <- why settle for one?

And what can I say, I am blessed :humble:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

So yes, either 'you are not smart or funny' or 'you are smart nor funny'

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Your first suggestion is okay. The second is not an English sentence.

Ajax

#23 sure has a very good set of personalities. Ok if I can choose more #14 and #15

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Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

Your first suggestion is okay. The second is not an English sentence.

Ajax

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Yes it is

This English-speaker disagrees, and so does the internet. Google can find that sequence in only two places: one is this thread, and in the other it's preceded by a no one that makes it grammatical. Care to offer any support for your position besides 'Thus speaks Fragony'? If not, I've had enough talking to a brick wall for today--Back to your regularly scheduled football and politics!

Ajax

Diz da intrawebs be, we dunt speek grammar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

This English-speaker disagrees, and so does the internet. Google can find that sequence in only two places: one is this thread, and in the other it's preceded by a no one that makes it grammatical. Care to offer any support for your position besides 'Thus speaks Fragony'? If not, I've had enough talking to a brick wall for today--Back to your regularly scheduled football and politics!

Ajax

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Sorry for upsetting you but it's really correct.

You are smart nor funny
You [aren't smart and neither are you] funny

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

Shouldn't it be till kingdom come?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hax

You know what, I don't think so!

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"Kingdom come" refers to an event in time. You wouldn't say "it's not long to tuesday", would you?

@ ajaxfetish: please tell Hax that he's wrong. Better yet: tell him that I'm right.

Arguing about semantics on a thread about football violence? Good work, guys. :yes:

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Originally Posted by spankythehippo

Arguing about semantics on a thread about football violence? Good work, guys. :yes:

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In all fairness, that is what I like about this forum. It's so filled with freaks that you NEVER know where things are gonna end up...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spankythehippo

Arguing about semantics on a thread about football violence? Good work, guys. :yes:

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'IN' a thread, you are not sitting on it. The guy cleaning the roof isn't in school he's on it.

Gawd

Edit, it also puzzles me that you have yet to choose your Femen-chick. #6 and #23 are for the Swedish ski instructor and #14 and #15 for me, but a lot remain

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Originally Posted by Fragony

'IN' a thread, you are not sitting on it. The guy cleaning the roof isn't in school he's on it.

Gawd

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We're not "in" the thread, are we? We're not part of the PHP of the forum. We just utilise it to post about something on a thread. I think. I actually have no idea.

I don't know. It doesn't sound right when I say it out aloud. "Arguing about semantics IN a thread about football violence?" Yep, it just doesn't sound right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spankythehippo

We're not "in" the thread, are we? We're not part of the PHP of the forum. We just utilise it to post about something on a thread. I think. I actually have no idea.

I don't know. It doesn't sound right when I say it out aloud. "Arguing about semantics IN a thread about football violence?" Yep, it just doesn't sound right.

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Mind the edit. Even if you are right you are still doing it wrong.

Can I also have all of # 37 for the hung over sex the morning after?

And yes, you do need about that many if hung over. That way they can also entertain themselves, which lessens the burden in your fragile state.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Edit, it also puzzles me that you have yet to choose your Femen-chick. #6 and #23 are for the Swedish ski instructor and #14 and #15 for me, but a lot remain

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Is this targeted at me? Because I don't get it.

If I can have 36. If we dress them up nicely we can play chess with them, a game for gentlemen. My #15 can be the queen. And people wonder why I support women's rights

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

If I can have 36. If we dress them up nicely we can play chess with them, a game for gentlemen. My #15 can be the queen. And people wonder why I support women's rights

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That wouldn't be anything but fair.

I was more looking forward to a game of Twister though...

EDIT: My bedsheets... ;)

What the **** do the numbers mean?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

That wouldn't be anything but fair.

I was more looking forward to a game of Twister though...

EDIT: My bedsheets... ;)

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Striptwister, always a good idea

@spanky, the Femen chicks I posted earlier naturally http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/the-best-of-femen-nsfw Ukrainian feminists who get it right

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

@spanky, the Femen chicks I posted earlier naturally http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/the-best-of-femen-nsfw Ukrainian feminists who get it right

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OK. 6 & 23 are taken. So are 14 & 15.

*looks through site*

Hey! I like 6. She's pretty ni... ****, she's already taken.

OK. I'll take 31 and the one on the right for 3.

Isn't she also 16 and 22?

Or are they trins? If so, I regret not going with that option.

Glad you support our cause Spanky, women are NOT objects

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Glad you support our cause Spanky, women are NOT objects

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*But if they were, they would be pretty ******* nice objects*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

*But if they were, they would be pretty ******* nice objects*

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That's just sexist I apreciate character. Especially those of #14 small ones are better imho

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Isn't she also 16 and 22?

Or are they trins? If so, I regret not going with that option.

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I think they are the same person.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Glad you support our cause Spanky, women are NOT objects

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oh yeah...What? Oh yeah, totally. I completely support the thing you said about something I support.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

That's just sexist I apreciate character. Especially those of #14 small ones are better imho

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I don't know, I think #4 has a lot to say.