Gypsies purchased a 5 year old to exploit as a dancing attraction

Article in Bulgarian.


The roma "trained" Maria to dance for alms

The blond angel was purchased in Greece for 500 euro from a Bulgarian mother

http://85.14.28.164/d/images/photos/...9-article2.jpg

The littel girl which was found in a roma encampment and dubbed "the blond angel" in Greece, was bought for 500 euro from its Bulgarian mother, claims the local press cited by Nova tv.

According to the press, the biological mother of the littel girl resides in Athens, and Bulgarian roma in the region knew enough details to be of help to the investigation.

The police in our southern neighboring state is already working on the version of an existing illegal cannal for smuggling pregnant women from Bulgaria, which then give birth in Greece, after which the children are being sold.

The Greek television Alpha showed video clips of Maria from Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=yBHbBBGmDQ0

In the footage one can see how the little girl was forced to belly dance under the strict gaze of an elderly roma woman, who on several occasons pulls the girl and forces her to dance.

It is assumed that relatives of the couple which has been "taking care of" the child, have spread the footage.

Maria was discovered in a gypsy slum on Wednesday in Farsala in central Greece, and the DNA tests have proven that the man and woman with which the girl lived are not her mother and father.

The director of social services in in Larissa - Kostas Yanopulus. declared that the couple who have abducted the girl have treated her like a "dancing bear".

The director is certain that the innocent child has been savagely exploited for begging.

Greek police states that this Roma family has received over 8000 euro in social care for its 14 children.

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So?! Germany pays billions of bailout so Greece can feed this scum of society, these parasites that leech 8000 euro per month in social care? People who exploit children and even if given extraordinary amounts of money for free, still choose to live in slums and resort to begging, theft and child trafficking? Please, tell me more about how we must integrate them. No really. Especially our resident Norwegian since "You are idiots and don't know how to integrate them. Gypsies in Norway have university degrees".

Look at the bright side, she's still too young to prostitute. She looks like she comes from Scandinavia she has very Nordic features

If your blood simmers... let it cool before taking action. (Harald Hårfagre)

I have watched this case and the Bulgarian spin on this is new.. It might be one of the several leads they mention in our news.
One theory is that this is a kid born in Greece by a Scandinavian decent parent (father.. no mother mentioned) and that allegedly died at birth. The parents suspected fishiness and demanded the grave opened, whereupon they found it empty. The girl apparently looks like children in his family and was born/died in 2009. Father demands DNA test... (although our articles says that one was taken to prove that the captors was not her parents).

This is just an example of history. We were warned as children that the gypsies will take you if you walk too far off "our street". I guess it is rooted in something.

Young children are blonde around that age. Later on their hair goes darker (at least in Bulgaria). Me at 5 years of age - I was a curly, blond haired kid. Now I'm chestnut/auburn coloured. Her ethnicity doesn't matter - there are blond, blue eyed ethnic Bulgarians (coutresy of our Slavic blood mix). What matters is that yet again, the gypsies are the one doing this crap. They're the ones who live in slums, mooching off of wellfare and conditioning young children to beg, to be used to being sold (gypsies here have a habit of purchasing adolescent brides) and worse.

And if anyone brings this up (God forbid if we ask for the law to crack down on thefts being unanswered, 13 year old gypsy mothers giving birthe etc.) we have 50 Soros funded NPOs and a number of EU comissions saying ""Noo! Noo! Do not discriminate them. Integrate them!

So how do we integarate them? Give them free housing - they turn brand new apartment blocks into derilict slums that make post-war Berlin look like current day NYC. Give them free utilities? Force them to send their children to school? Give them free money so they can produce 14 chilren and live off welfare? Why isn't another ethnic part of Balkan society in such a condition? Ethinc Bulgarians and Romaians go to the western countries to work and be educated (especially the German education opportunites are wonderful). Ethnic gypsies go to live in slums and steal (like in France) or even eat the swans swimming in Enlgish parks.

Uh oh, it's the education man! It's the racism! Surely.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

This is just an example of history. We were warned as children that the gypsies will take you if you walk too far off "our street". I guess it is rooted in something.

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What's to fear, you get to go to Norway and get a degree.

Of course you won't be a victim of organ trade or prostitution. I also can't stress enough that you won't be sitting all drugged up a subway-station in Paris with amputated legs.

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Originally Posted by Myth

So?! Germany pays billions of bailout so Greece can feed this scum of society, these parasites that leech 8000 euro per month in social care? People who exploit children and even if given extraordinary amounts of money for free, still choose to live in slums and resort to begging, theft and child trafficking? Please, tell me more about how we must integrate them. No really. Especially our resident Norwegian since "You are idiots and don't know how to integrate them. Gypsies in Norway have university degrees".

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Did the fact that the child was bought from a Bulgarian child trafficker(in your story) completely escape you while you were ranting?

Also, the only Bulgarians working here are prostitutes anyway. Let's burn down those evil Bulgarian pimps now, eh? Where's NATO when you need 'em?

Child trafficker? The stoy says her own mother sold her, which is another problem entirely. The only Bulgarians working there are prostitutes? What about those MBA gypsies you were talking about? Or do you just conveniently forgot? Want me to remind you? Bulgarians study and work in Germany. So do Turks, and Armenians, and anyone else who actually wants to study/work! Not these parasites though, they're too good for this. It's better to get free stuff and stick to what they know.

That there are cheap eastern European prostitutes (not just Bulgarian) that are mostly victims of human trafficking and abuse is as much our society's problem as it is YOURS (since you are the ones providing demand and not caring how it's supplied).

And do you have anything to say in defence of the "innocent, misunderstood Roma who are abused by idiot estern European countries and not integrated like in glorious Norway"? Anything to say of them leeching 8000 euro in social care and still doing stuff like this? Anything to say that this is the norm for them but not for virtually any other ethinic minority in Europe?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Did the fact that the child was bought from a Bulgarian child trafficker(in your story) completely escape you while you were ranting?

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Did the fact (in his story) that they bought a child escape your judgement on human trading? Work in sex industry anyway? The sun is always shining in the land of unicorns and rainbows I suppose, screw reality in scandirapia for free, woosh, it's gone. The sadness of one of the most cynical trades in the world gone, presto

Update, I was probably right she is probably Norwegian. The father was told she was dead and demanded the grave to be opened, it was empty. He is now making work of it.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

In Scandinavia, Roma take higher education.
In Bulgaria, Roma does not take higher education.

Yeah, you'd need to be a genius to figure that one out...

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Hilarious.

I have no idea if any Roma get higher education in Bulgaria. Given the regimes there, it wouldn't surprise me that much if the number was zero or close to zero.

In civilized states built on enlightenment and law as opposed to tribalism and oppression however, Roma do attend university and integrate into society.

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Can you get some distinquished roma scholars to comment on them buying kids and living off wellfare in Greece and other countries outside Bulgaria? I'm sure Prof. Dr. Mango or Dipl.-Ing. Asan will have some very good comments on this.

Frags can you post some relevant news articles?

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Originally Posted by Myth

Can you get some distinquished roma scholars to comment on them buying kids and living off wellfare in Greece and other countries outside Bulgaria? I'm sure Prof. Dr. Mango or Dipl.-Ing. Asan will have some very good comments on this.

Frags can you post some relevant news articles?

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Ha I got family in Denmark and Norway, Horetore is kinda full of it, they behave there exactly as they do at your place.

One difference though, they call it 'criminal French'. Those are the Roma's France kicked out.

Gotta love Scandinavia and their political correctness

8000 Euros a month for fourteen children. So about $6 per child per meal plus clothes plus warmth plus etc.

8000 might feed 14 kids if properly used. But there isn't going to be much left for clothing and housing.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

8000 Euros a month for fourteen children. So about $6 per child per meal plus clothes plus warmth plus etc.

8000 might feed 14 kids if properly used. But there isn't going to be much left for clothing and housing.

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Nope. The prices for food in Greece are identical to (and sometimes lower) than those in Bulgaria. I have friends and colleagues who go to rent villas in Greece and shop in their supermarkets and cook/barbeque for themselves. Feeding one person is more expensive than two people, believe it or not, since cooking for one rarley makes sense.

So increasing the members in a family does not exponentially increase the cost for food. Sure it goes up, but it diminishes per person, since cooking large quantities of food is actually more cost effective. Making a huge bowl of soup or a cooked meal can feed 14 people just fine at a relatively low cost. 8000 euro is PLENTY. Sure they won't be the most well-dressed, but they will be warm and fed if old man Ahmet didn't drink hard liquor and smoke 2 packs of cigarettes costing 5 euro each per day.

8000 euro is 16000 leva in Bulgaria. Feeding a 14 person family with home cooked meals would cost about 3000 leva per month (1500 euro. And I said, prices are similar in Greece). That leaves a whopping 6500 euro for clothes, utility bills, rent and whatnot, excluding any income the parents may have. Seriously. Shopping a trunk full of food in a store would cost you about 100 euro tops, if you stay awy from luxury stuff like liquour, fine wine, imported cheese and so on. That could last you for 3 days probably, depending on how and what you cook.

Can't deny that Myth has some points... the Karoli family comes to mind, as does those who travel around despite having apartments in Oslo.
Usually summertime they hitch their trailers on to their Mercedes and comes to the west coast, settles down on a camping site and... well Myth explained it. BUT I think they are bad apples as there are bad apples in every case.

Luckily have have personal knowledge of fresh apples both from Romania and Bulgaria working in Norway.
I am not too worked up by this... It only gives evidence of criminal specimen in a larger group of people which is quite normal.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

8000 Euros a month for fourteen children. So about $6 per child per meal plus clothes plus warmth plus etc.

8000 might feed 14 kids if properly used. But there isn't going to be much left for clothing and housing.

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Get less children. In romenia they used to cut out the plumbing after it got too insane and we were all ohohoh but it's a pretty good idea if they keep throwing out what we don't need. So let's cap any aid at 2, no benefits after that.

About the 14 kids... In our news, the Greek police couldn't find that many children at the residence of the culprits and local politicians is quite upset that it is too easy to register kids to parents in Greece. Apparently there are no safety checks.
And there will always be people who will exploit benefits. But let's not make it too hard to receive benefits because of exploits. The benefit program has become quite the nightmare here for people genuinely deserving it.

I had a few rounds in the system when I got sick back in 2010 but gave it up... I couldn't fight a rigid system designed to fight abuse. The state owes me a few months worth of support.. but it is not worth fighting the system for it. And I am not suffering as I have other means. But those who really need it and have to fight... I genuinely feel sorry for them. I'd vote for a less rigid system despite it being easier to abuse. So let these people have their 8000 Euro as long as others who need the same get them as easily.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

About the 14 kids... In our news, the Greek police couldn't find that many children at the residence of the culprits and local politicians is quite upset that it is too easy to register kids to parents in Greece. Apparently there are no safety checks.

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Just for your consideration, this what the houses of the end of the foodchain look like

http://updatedhome.com/architectural...gypsy-castles/

You will find many more if you google 'gypsie castles'

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Just for your consideration, this what the houses of the end of the foodchain look like

http://updatedhome.com/architectural...gypsy-castles/

You will find many more if you google 'gypsie castles'

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Linked blocked on my network.. but google gave some ideas.
Let them have their extravaganza. Fizzil laughed at me when I told him how much I paid to build my house. He said I could have gotten two palaces in UAE.
Let the Romanian authorities worry about this, I wouldn't be caught dead in a house like that or in a Mercedes... :sneaky:

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

Linked blocked on my network.. but google gave some ideas.
Let them have their extravaganza. Fizzil laughed at me when I told him how much I paid to build my house. He said I could have gotten two palaces in UAE.
Let the Romanian authorities worry about this, I wouldn't be caught dead in a house like that or in a Mercedes... :sneaky:

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Not my *ahum* taste either. But there are hundreds of these, it are criminal organisations.

Kinda curious why that link was blocked though, but alas, it's Norway they think different about freedom of speech and logical conclusions there.

They have criminal French.

Oh Gypsies...

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Originally Posted by Myth

Child trafficker? The stoy says her own mother sold her, which is another problem entirely. The only Bulgarians working there are prostitutes? What about those MBA gypsies you were talking about? Or do you just conveniently forgot? Want me to remind you? Bulgarians study and work in Germany. So do Turks, and Armenians, and anyone else who actually wants to study/work! Not these parasites though, they're too good for this. It's better to get free stuff and stick to what they know.

That there are cheap eastern European prostitutes (not just Bulgarian) that are mostly victims of human trafficking and abuse is as much our society's problem as it is YOURS (since you are the ones providing demand and not caring how it's supplied).

And do you have anything to say in defence of the "innocent, misunderstood Roma who are abused by idiot estern European countries and not integrated like in glorious Norway"? Anything to say of them leeching 8000 euro in social care and still doing stuff like this? Anything to say that this is the norm for them but not for virtually any other ethinic minority in Europe?

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I have very little to say to ignorant racists who believe in the craziest stuff on the planet, like the US government bombing WTC. I don't see any need to have an actual conversation with people who are looking for delusions instead of facts.

And I still find it hilarious how you manage to say that a mother selling her child is not a child trafficker.

edited.

edited

edited

Funny as it is to read... I believe we should up the argument sans ad hominem.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

Funny as it is to read... I believe we should up the argument sans ad hominem.

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What good what that be, I wouldn't be able to compare Norway to the Shephord Wives if I can't offend anyone, that's just cruel.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

What good what that be, I wouldn't be able to compare Norway to the Shephord Wives if I can't offend anyone, that's just cruel.

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Frolic with the nation as much as you like... but personal insults is just so yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Myth

... Turns out (surprise, surprise) he doesn't know jack and he resorts to logical fallacies to get out of uncomfortable arguments (and he does this constantly).

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Just mention Vålerenga and you got him by the horns (also called insult by proxy).

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

Just mention Vålerenga and you got him by the horns (also called insult by proxy).

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Why?

I is back, and he will lead us to the promised land eventually. What matters now is to ensure that the (censored) in Nedre Pukerud don't steal the gold away from moustacheland.

Well, as Horetore correctly notes, this is human/child trafficking pure and simple. It is a crime to be on either end of such a market exchange because of our basic belief -- acknowledged virtually everywhere -- that humans are not and should not be treated as property.

Sadly, the selling of one's children by poor families -- particularly the girl children -- has a long and cross-cultural history. Moreover, one of the saddest elements is that the sellers often believe, because of their own poverty-stricken status in most cases, that they are doing "the right thing" for their child. Sad.

I can understand that you consider the gypsy way of life odd compared to that of the rest of us. Perhaps, I can even come to understand how one deems it difficult to match with our way of living.

But to go from there, taking the brush of the gypsie child trafficker and then paint an entire group of people as teh evil, goes a step too far and reeks of blatant racism.

It's one thing to express an opinion on the problems, difficulties and tensions our completely different ways of life may cause, but it becomes something completely different if you start demonising the entire group and depict them as evil creatures.

Regardless of opinions or viewpoints, no more ad hominems or this thread gets locked.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Well, as Horetore correctly notes, this is human/child trafficking pure and simple. It is a crime to be on either end of such a market exchange because of our basic belief -- acknowledged virtually everywhere -- that humans are not and should not be treated as property.

Sadly, the selling of one's children by poor families -- particularly the girl children -- has a long and cross-cultural history. Moreover, one of the saddest elements is that the sellers often believe, because of their own poverty-stricken status in most cases, that they are doing "the right thing" for their child. Sad.

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Indeed, this thread is about child trafficking. A heinous crime.

It is kind of disgusting to ignore the real issue and abuse the story of this poor girl to go on a rant about gypsies.

What happened to the girl is awful of course, but I think that the criminal behaviour of certain Roma is a valid thread topic.

I remember another Gypsie thread from a long, long time ago. I made the argument that eastern-European countries should make a serious effort to integrate Roma into mainstream society (i.e. ensuring that their children attend school, using the police if necessary). It might cost a lot, but the costs of future generations of Roma continuing along the same path is a lot greater.

Sarmatian (I think) argued that eastern Europe is poorer than the west, and that spending a veritable buttload of money to force a small minority to adhere to the same norms as the overwhelming majority of people (such as attending school) is neither just or feasible.

I think he had a point.

Child slavery is one of the worst things ever. I don't have any real experience with gypsies or Roma so I can't say one way or the other.

I cannot comment on gypsies, the only exposure i get of the roma is through tv, and considering they've become the UK's version of honey boo-boo, I dont think I am seeing the complete picture.

I am mildly horrified (only mildly, the internet is one heck of a desensitiser) that child snatching is apparantly organized, my image of criminals having at least a smidgen of standards has been shattered.

My only exposure to them is the FullMetal Alchemist movie and frankly I'm ashamed to admit I watched it. All the women in that movie were hot though so I suspect it's not an accurate depiction based on photos of this couple I have seen.

Any chance this thing is europewide

Girl removed from Roma family in Dublin

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Gardaí have removed a seven-year-old blonde girl from a Roma family in Tallaght and placed her in care.
The action was taken after a member of the public raised concerns about the child living with the family.
It is highly unusual for gardaí to remove a child from a family, but they have a duty to do so in law under certain circumstances.
The Child Protection Unit at Tallaght Garda Station is leading the investigation.
The gardaí had had prior dealings with the family and at around 4.30pm on Monday officers called to the house.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

They spoke to the parents and saw there were a number of children in the house, one of whom was distinctive, a seven-year-old child with blonde hair and blue eyes.
The parents informed gardaí the child was their own and was born in 2006 at a city maternity hospital.
However, initial checks there failed to confirm this.
Gardaí were also dissatisfied with documents produced in relation to the child.
They spoke with a consultant at another Dublin hospital who informed them that while not impossible, it would be unusual for a Roma family to have a child with such contrasting features.
After two hours in the house, gardaí then decided to act under Section 12 of the Child Care Act and officials from the HSE took the child into care.
The child can remain in care for up to 28 days while the garda investigation continues.
The Government's Special Rapporteur for Child Protection has said the vast majority of children in the care system have been placed there under a voluntary care order.
Speaking on RTÉ’s Six One News, Geoffrey Shannon emphasised that no comment should be made on any case that is in process.
He said there is a very clear roadmap for what should happen when a child is taken into the care system.
He explained the circumstances under which gardaí can enter a home and take a child out of a family.
He said that if there is an immediate threat to the health or safety of a child and if gardaí have reasonable grounds to believe that this is the case, they can take the child to a place of safety.
He said the HSE then has two options. It must conduct an immediate investigation of the circumstances of the child.
If the HSE is satisfied that all issues are in order, then the child can be returned to the parents.
If this is not the case, the HSE must apply as soon as possible to the District Court, which has the power to grant an Emergency Care Order which can last up to a maximum of eight days.
A decision must then be made on whether to make an application for an Interim Care Order, which lasts for a period of 28 days.
Mr Shannon said the parents have to be consulted at every stage of these proceedings.
He said the HSE will conduct a very thorough investigation and if this reveals child protection concerns, the Interim Care Order can be extended for a further period of time.
Mr Shannon said these are very exceptional powers and their use is unusual.

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High demand for blondes?

Thread needs some thing positive. Vengo. Watch this movie.

Samples

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSokZ0iejvs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otdeWphzoIs

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Originally Posted by RTE News

The child was removed from the family because her features - blonde hair and blue eyes, contrasted with the other children in the home.

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Woah there Ireland. It is not unheard of to have parents with dark features having a blond, blue eyed child.
My wife is an example of this. Mother dark hair with brown eyes and father auburn hair brown eyes. All siblings dark hair and brown eyes. She is herself blond with blue eyes.
She's heard all through her younger years that she might have been switched at the hospital, which I believe is only funny the first time but hurtful if it continues. But if you look into her family, you'll see that both her father and mother have blond siblings, and she looks like her grandmother on her mother's side.

This could get ugly if people start looking around for potential genetic mismatch. Look rather to mistreatment and abuse.
A particular case of a family from India comes to mind.

I wonder if they go after white kids because they will get more sympathy when begging?

As for the genetics issue, I have ginger(ish) hair, but both my parents have black hair, none of my grandparents had ginger hair either. Neither do my brothers. Then again my two eyes aren't even the same colour, so maybe I'm just some sort of ginger antichrist.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

Woah there Ireland. It is not unheard of to have parents with dark features having a blond, blue eyed child.
My wife is an example of this. Mother dark hair with brown eyes and father auburn hair brown eyes. All siblings dark hair and brown eyes. She is herself blond with blue eyes.
She's heard all through her younger years that she might have been switched at the hospital, which I believe is only funny the first time but hurtful if it continues. But if you look into her family, you'll see that both her father and mother have blond siblings, and she looks like her grandmother on her mother's side.

This could get ugly if people start looking around for potential genetic mismatch. Look rather to mistreatment and abuse.
A particular case of a family from India comes to mind.

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Indeed. They should read up on genetics. Here's a simple chart on genes and eye colour from Google University, showing how two brown-eyed parents can have blue-eyed children. The same applies to hair colour(and lots more).

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

I wonder if they go after white kids because they will get more sympathy when begging?

As for the genetics issue, I have ginger(ish) hair, but both my parents have black hair, none of my grandparents had ginger hair either. Neither do my brothers. Then again my two eyes aren't even the same colour, so maybe I'm just some sort of ginger antichrist.

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Nope, just a mutant.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

I wonder if they go after white kids because they will get more sympathy when begging?

As for the genetics issue, I have ginger(ish) hair, but both my parents have black hair, none of my grandparents had ginger hair either. Neither do my brothers. Then again my two eyes aren't even the same colour, so maybe I'm just some sort of ginger antichrist.

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you are just upset because you have no soul.

I had (until I went Kojak) dark brown head hair and dark hazel eyes (ocean blue/grey with an inner brown).
Next brother had Ginger (another Bruce Willis hair cut) head hair and light hazel eyes.
Youngest bro had blonde hair (polar bear white until six, now dark ash blonde) and bright sky blue eyes.

So basing family on hair and eye colour is so 1930's European.

Partner sharing is so seventies ;)

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Partner sharing is so seventies ;)

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I just turned forty last week so all I can say is:

I resemble the product of that remark. Lol

https://i.imgur.com/2me7fz5.jpg

For those unconvinced, DNA testing proved it wasn't their child.

Here's another twist.

It appears she might have been the daughter of Bulgarian Roma: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-Bulgaria.html

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Here's another twist.

It appears she might have been the daughter of Bulgarian Roma: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-Bulgaria.html

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Wouldn't alter the child-trafficking issue even if they were part of the same co-culture.

Is it not possible for adoption to have been legally arranged? Or is that one of those things the Roma co-culture tends to skip doing?

Why do they colour the blond hair red? I noticed they did this to Maria as well but let it grow out blond. You can clearly see the red dye in maria's pig tails.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

Why do they colour the blond hair red? I noticed they did this to Maria as well but let it grow out blond. You can clearly see the red dye in maria's pig tails.

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My daughter likes to chalk in different colors a couple of times a month. Little girls seem to enjoy the color game. The photo above suggests that coloring her hair that shade of red would not have been an effort to make her seem to be more like "mom and dad."

By the way, the child of the Irish Gypsy was their... Genetic can be tricky... The Police and social Workers give "it" back...

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

Why do they colour the blond hair red? I noticed they did this to Maria as well but let it grow out blond. You can clearly see the red dye in maria's pig tails.

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I'm pretty sure this has to do with the "pale, blue-eyed" thing that darker-toned peoples seem to have. It's very well documented, you see it in the Iliad with Achilleus, in the Muslim Rulers of North Africa who got their sons on Frankish slaves, and inn the North American tribes who tended to snatch blond girls during raids. That the Roma were won't to do this in times gone past is well known, and not worth arguing. It appears in this case that the trade was internal, though.

It seems likely this child was not treated much worse than her "siblings", it's just that this Roma couple are terrible parents - but then by the looks of it so was her birth mother.

And good luck integrating them, we can't even do that here where most of them actually go to school, and even university these days.

I wonder how many lost kids, or unexplained kids, one would find in gypsy communities if there was a total crack down on it.

With regard to the case in ireland the child wasnt taken into care because she looked odd and its not a case of a heavy handed state rather it is the police and care workers acting on a seriouious allegation made to the gardai.
The guards arrived to the house on foot of a serious allegation made about a family already "KNOWN" to the authorities the family could not provide any evidence and the hospital was unable to backup there claim of parentage. Now the guards are in a bind do the leave the child and obtain the neccessary legal rite to obtain dna evidence or do they err on the side of caution and place the child in state care and obtain there evidence. Obviously the had to place the child in care where they had a doubt as to the safety of the child.

Essentially this is a case of the system actually working however the allegations made to the authorities by members of the public through a journalist were essentially hysteria. This is an example of why you shoud not waste police time potentially this could harm the careers of some members of the force for following proper procedure.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

With regard to the case in ireland the child wasnt taken into care because she looked odd and its not a case of a heavy handed state rather it is the police and care workers acting on a seriouious allegation made to the gardai.
The guards arrived to the house on foot of a serious allegation made about a family already "KNOWN" to the authorities the family could not provide any evidence and the hospital was unable to backup there claim of parentage. Now the guards are in a bind do the leave the child and obtain the neccessary legal rite to obtain dna evidence

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They have legal rites in Ireland? I knew the church and state were close over there, but I never knew they were that close. Do the rites involve animal sacrifice?

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

They have legal rites in Ireland? I knew the church and state were close over there, but I never knew they were that close. Do the rites involve animal sacrifice?

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It does. The cells that contain the DNA could have became a person...

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Do the rites involve animal sacrifice?

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Dunno about sacrifice, but they sure gulp gulp gulp pretend blood like as if it was a alcoholic beverage :bounce:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

They have legal rites in Ireland? I knew the church and state were close over there, but I never knew they were that close. Do the rites involve animal sacrifice?

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ya its the church of the unreformed smarty pants

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

My daughter likes to chalk in different colors a couple of times a month. Little girls seem to enjoy the color game. The photo above suggests that coloring her hair that shade of red would not have been an effort to make her seem to be more like "mom and dad."

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But the child is too young to consider hair colour... Its not an effort to make her look more like her parents, but maybe obfuscate a major attribute for those looking for a baby girl with white hair. Red being more believable than dark on a child with very light features (skin, eyelashes, eyebrows), all though I must admit that it is too noticeable.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I'm pretty sure this has to do with the "pale, blue-eyed" thing that darker-toned peoples seem to have. It's very well documented, you see it in the Iliad with Achilleus, in the Muslim Rulers of North Africa who got their sons on Frankish slaves, and inn the North American tribes who tended to snatch blond girls during raids. That the Roma were won't to do this in times gone past is well known, and not worth arguing. It appears in this case that the trade was internal, though.

It seems likely this child was not treated much worse than her "siblings", it's just that this Roma couple are terrible parents - but then by the looks of it so was her birth mother.

And good luck integrating them, we can't even do that here where most of them actually go to school, and even university these days.

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She made 80-100 euro per day from begging. This is definitely not good parenting. The mother turned out to be from Bulgaria and she recgnized her child, so I'm not sure how the "man from Scandinavia"fits in with the story. But the news site I'm getting this from also said that the kids in Ireland turend out to be the biological children of the family in question, so I'm not sure what to beleive.

Stereotype alert: that would only serve to make her look more Scottish? Naturally red hair is a very much rarer mutation than blond hair, and due to this relative rarity only a few cultures fully appreciate the sensitivity of the issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw

Of course plenty of cultures have a tradition of dying hair, though.

Blond hair and fair skin are fairly common features from basically everything to the west of Mongolia and north of Africa. :shrug:

So, it turned out that this child was simply a "victim" of an informal adoption procedure. While we Europeans always take pride in our ability to regulate ourselves to death, we need to remember that adoption agencies are a new thing, and leaving kids with friends is the usual way of doing things.

To conclude: Innocent Roma, racist media and society. OP and thread title is also hilarious now.

For a comparison to this situation:

The Greek state places hundreds of Roma children under their protection and responsibility in an orphanage. How did the Greek state protect them? By selling them to traffickers, noted in their (now "mysteriously" disappeared) report to the European Commission, reporting prices of up to 500 euros.

Yes, clearly the Greeks are more capable of caring for children than Roma parents or foster parents.

Naive looks so good on you

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Naive looks so good on you

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Are you going to link pictures of bling now?

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Naive looks so good on you

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So, if the truth doesn't match with what you believe to be true, you dismiss the truth and keep believing what's not true?

Because Fragony made up his mind about gypsies, the thread title is the truth, even when, in reality, it isn't?

~:confused:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Are you going to link pictures of bling now?

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I guess for some, these gypsies not turning out to be the evil child traffickers they accused them to be, is an inconvenient truth.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Are you going to link pictures of bling now?

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No I am going to post a pic of a lot of kittens.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps77969b7c.jpg

Awwwww

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

So, it turned out that this child was simply a "victim" of an informal adoption procedure. While we Europeans always take pride in our ability to regulate ourselves to death, we need to remember that adoption agencies are a new thing, and leaving kids with friends is the usual way of doing things.

To conclude: Innocent Roma, racist media and society. OP and thread title is also hilarious now.

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Selling your children as chattel is your idea of informal adoption?

Oh yes, blame racist media.

"Selling your children as chattel is your idea of informal adoption?" True. We just pay the lawyers fees and running cost and compensate the family... Makes a LOT of difference.
And there is not proof (I know, I am very demanding) that any money was giving in the Roma Child problem. All was built on prejudices and racism.

Yes, the media were racist, and people telling than Roma couldn't have blond and blue eyes kids are racist, proofs by DNA.

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Originally Posted by Demetrius Scholarius

Selling your children as chattel is your idea of informal adoption?

Oh yes, blame racist media.

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Nah, that's the Greek way of doing things. I didn't state it explicitly, but I think it was implied that I didn't approve of that way of doing things.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

So, it turned out that this child was simply a "victim" of an informal adoption procedure. While we Europeans always take pride in our ability to regulate ourselves to death, we need to remember that adoption agencies are a new thing, and leaving kids with friends is the usual way of doing things.

To conclude: Innocent Roma, racist media and society. OP and thread title is also hilarious now.

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Originally Posted by Brenus

"Selling your children as chattel is your idea of informal adoption?" True. We just pay the lawyers fees and running cost and compensate the family... Makes a LOT of difference.

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Excuse me: WTF?

Adoption is heavily regulated for good reasons. And the standards expected of people who want to adopt are a lot heavier than those expected from biological parents (i.e. the threshold before child protection agencies bust your door)

From what I've read the defense story sounds more like they were acting as guardians in place of the real parents - but there are rules for that, also.

If their story is true it might be reason enough to charge them with a lesser offense or maybe not charge them at all. But what they did was certainly not okay.

The very best that can be said is that this is the Roma acting as though they are outside the law, and then using the "adopted" child to make money. Maybe they do that with their own children and think that's ok.

I don't care - the child is better off where she is than where she was.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

Excuse me: WTF?

Adoption is heavily regulated for good reasons. And the standards expected of people who want to adopt are a lot heavier than those expected from biological parents (i.e. the threshold before child protection agencies bust your door)

From what I've read the defense story sounds more like they were acting as guardians in place of the real parents - but there are rules for that, also.

If their story is true it might be reason enough to charge them with a lesser offense or maybe not charge them at all. But what they did was certainly not okay.

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Yes, I fully support our behemoth government administration, and believe that every aspect of our lives should be scrutinized by the government. I am a socialist, after all.

Still, I cannot get all worked up over people reverting to less formal ways of doing things. It's been the norm until very recently, after all. I only need to go back to my grandmother to find examples of the same practice. Had I been from the north, I wouldn't even have to go back further than the post-war years. Parents got lost at sea, the children were taken care of by friends, without bothering to involve any authorities.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

The very best that can be said is that this is the Roma acting as though they are outside the law, and then using the "adopted" child to make money. Maybe they do that with their own children and think that's ok.

I don't care - the child is better off where she is than where she was.

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So we should take all Roma children living away from their parents, eh? Sounds like a brilliant plan, if only we hadn't done that already and ended up with a buttload of abuse....

Or should we only take the good-looking blondes away?

Legal parents (and guardians) have their rights when we're talking about their kids.

Crucial point is that these two people are neither parents or guardians in the legal sense. The decision of what to do with the child can be based entirely on what's best for her, without worrying about what the two "adoptive parents" think.

And yes, the girl is better off away from these two. For one thing, good parents usually don't violate the law so boldly.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

So we should take all Roma children living away from their parents, eh? Sounds like a brilliant plan, if only we hadn't done that already and ended up with a buttload of abuse....

Or should we only take the good-looking blondes away?

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This child was abandoned by her mother.

The other pale girl could even be her twin - I'd bet she was sold for money, because her parents are living in a slum.

I'm ok with Travellers, if they want to look down on "Country" people, marry within their own tribes... Fine. However, they need to abide by the same laws as the rest of us. Doubtless this women didn't want to put the girl up for adoption because she was more likely to be picked up by a non-Roma couple, so she sold her daughter to a pair of Roma who, frankly, don't even appear to be able to look after themselves.

That's abuse at a fundamental level - the child needs to be taken into care, sent to school.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Had I been from the north, I wouldn't even have to go back further than the post-war years. Parents got lost at sea, the children were taken care of by friends, without bothering to involve any authorities.

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Northern Norway must be more progressive than where I come from. There are farming families where, in the last two generations, it's believe that girl and boy children were swapped. It's a big problem because some of these people aren't sure who they're related to.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

Legal parents (and guardians) have their rights when we're talking about their kids.

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Yup, and it was the legal parent who decided that the child would be better off with them.

I really don't see much of a problem here, apart from a technical issue.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

This child was abandoned by her mother.

The other pale girl could even be her twin - I'd bet she was sold for money, because her parents are living in a slum.

I'm ok with Travellers, if they want to look down on "Country" people, marry within their own tribes... Fine. However, they need to abide by the same laws as the rest of us. Doubtless this women didn't want to put the girl up for adoption because she was more likely to be picked up by a non-Roma couple, so she sold her daughter to a pair of Roma who, frankly, don't even appear to be able to look after themselves.

That's abuse at a fundamental level - the child needs to be taken into care, sent to school.

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Where, exactly, do you get the "money changed hands"-thing from? Anything besides prejudice?