Gypsies purchased a 5 year old to exploit as a dancing attraction

[HoreTore]

So, it turned out that this child was simply a "victim" of an informal adoption procedure. While we Europeans always take pride in our ability to regulate ourselves to death, we need to remember that adoption agencies are a new thing, and leaving kids with friends is the usual way of doing things.

To conclude: Innocent Roma, racist media and society. OP and thread title is also hilarious now.

For a comparison to this situation:

The Greek state places hundreds of Roma children under their protection and responsibility in an orphanage. How did the Greek state protect them? By selling them to traffickers, noted in their (now "mysteriously" disappeared) report to the European Commission, reporting prices of up to 500 euros.

Yes, clearly the Greeks are more capable of caring for children than Roma parents or foster parents.

[Fragony]

Naive looks so good on you

[HoreTore]

Naive looks so good on you

Are you going to link pictures of bling now?

[Andres]

Are you going to link pictures of bling now?

I guess for some, these gypsies not turning out to be the evil child traffickers they accused them to be, is an inconvenient truth.

[Fragony]

Are you going to link pictures of bling now?

No I am going to post a pic of a lot of kittens.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps77969b7c.jpg

Awwwww

[Andres]

Naive looks so good on you

So, if the truth doesn't match with what you believe to be true, you dismiss the truth and keep believing what's not true?

Because Fragony made up his mind about gypsies, the thread title is the truth, even when, in reality, it isn't?

[Skullheadhq]

So, it turned out that this child was simply a "victim" of an informal adoption procedure. While we Europeans always take pride in our ability to regulate ourselves to death, we need to remember that adoption agencies are a new thing, and leaving kids with friends is the usual way of doing things.

To conclude: Innocent Roma, racist media and society. OP and thread title is also hilarious now.

Selling your children as chattel is your idea of informal adoption?

Oh yes, blame racist media.

[Brenus]

"Selling your children as chattel is your idea of informal adoption?" True. We just pay the lawyers fees and running cost and compensate the family... Makes a LOT of difference.
And there is not proof (I know, I am very demanding) that any money was giving in the Roma Child problem. All was built on prejudices and racism.

Yes, the media were racist, and people telling than Roma couldn't have blond and blue eyes kids are racist, proofs by DNA.

[HoreTore]

Selling your children as chattel is your idea of informal adoption?

Oh yes, blame racist media.

Nah, that's the Greek way of doing things. I didn't state it explicitly, but I think it was implied that I didn't approve of that way of doing things.

[Kralizec]

So, it turned out that this child was simply a "victim" of an informal adoption procedure. While we Europeans always take pride in our ability to regulate ourselves to death, we need to remember that adoption agencies are a new thing, and leaving kids with friends is the usual way of doing things.

To conclude: Innocent Roma, racist media and society. OP and thread title is also hilarious now.

"Selling your children as chattel is your idea of informal adoption?" True. We just pay the lawyers fees and running cost and compensate the family... Makes a LOT of difference.

Excuse me: WTF?

Adoption is heavily regulated for good reasons. And the standards expected of people who want to adopt are a lot heavier than those expected from biological parents (i.e. the threshold before child protection agencies bust your door)

From what I've read the defense story sounds more like they were acting as guardians in place of the real parents - but there are rules for that, also.

If their story is true it might be reason enough to charge them with a lesser offense or maybe not charge them at all. But what they did was certainly not okay.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The very best that can be said is that this is the Roma acting as though they are outside the law, and then using the "adopted" child to make money. Maybe they do that with their own children and think that's ok.

I don't care - the child is better off where she is than where she was.

[HoreTore]

The very best that can be said is that this is the Roma acting as though they are outside the law, and then using the "adopted" child to make money. Maybe they do that with their own children and think that's ok.

I don't care - the child is better off where she is than where she was.

So we should take all Roma children living away from their parents, eh? Sounds like a brilliant plan, if only we hadn't done that already and ended up with a buttload of abuse....

Or should we only take the good-looking blondes away?

[Kralizec]

Legal parents (and guardians) have their rights when we're talking about their kids.

Crucial point is that these two people are neither parents or guardians in the legal sense. The decision of what to do with the child can be based entirely on what's best for her, without worrying about what the two "adoptive parents" think.

And yes, the girl is better off away from these two. For one thing, good parents usually don't violate the law so boldly.

[HoreTore]

Legal parents (and guardians) have their rights when we're talking about their kids.

Yup, and it was the legal parent who decided that the child would be better off with them.

I really don't see much of a problem here, apart from a technical issue.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So we should take all Roma children living away from their parents, eh? Sounds like a brilliant plan, if only we hadn't done that already and ended up with a buttload of abuse....

Or should we only take the good-looking blondes away?

This child was abandoned by her mother.

The other pale girl could even be her twin - I'd bet she was sold for money, because her parents are living in a slum.

I'm ok with Travellers, if they want to look down on "Country" people, marry within their own tribes... Fine. However, they need to abide by the same laws as the rest of us. Doubtless this women didn't want to put the girl up for adoption because she was more likely to be picked up by a non-Roma couple, so she sold her daughter to a pair of Roma who, frankly, don't even appear to be able to look after themselves.

That's abuse at a fundamental level - the child needs to be taken into care, sent to school.

[HoreTore]

This child was abandoned by her mother.

The other pale girl could even be her twin - I'd bet she was sold for money, because her parents are living in a slum.

I'm ok with Travellers, if they want to look down on "Country" people, marry within their own tribes... Fine. However, they need to abide by the same laws as the rest of us. Doubtless this women didn't want to put the girl up for adoption because she was more likely to be picked up by a non-Roma couple, so she sold her daughter to a pair of Roma who, frankly, don't even appear to be able to look after themselves.

That's abuse at a fundamental level - the child needs to be taken into care, sent to school.

Where, exactly, do you get the "money changed hands"-thing from? Anything besides prejudice?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Yup, and it was the legal parent who decided that the child would be better off with them.

I really don't see much of a problem here, apart from a technical issue.

What about the begging and belly dancing?

Where, exactly, do you get the "money changed hands"-thing from? Anything besides prejudice?

the fact that these are the kind of Roma who make money by getting their children to beg?

They used the girl as a commodity, and selling children in tribal cultures (or medieval ones) is more common than simply giving them away. The passing of the child from the birth parent to the adoptive one is a transaction.

[HoreTore]

Excuse me: WTF?

Adoption is heavily regulated for good reasons. And the standards expected of people who want to adopt are a lot heavier than those expected from biological parents (i.e. the threshold before child protection agencies bust your door)

From what I've read the defense story sounds more like they were acting as guardians in place of the real parents - but there are rules for that, also.

If their story is true it might be reason enough to charge them with a lesser offense or maybe not charge them at all. But what they did was certainly not okay.

Yes, I fully support our behemoth government administration, and believe that every aspect of our lives should be scrutinized by the government. I am a socialist, after all.

Still, I cannot get all worked up over people reverting to less formal ways of doing things. It's been the norm until very recently, after all. I only need to go back to my grandmother to find examples of the same practice. Had I been from the north, I wouldn't even have to go back further than the post-war years. Parents got lost at sea, the children were taken care of by friends, without bothering to involve any authorities.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Had I been from the north, I wouldn't even have to go back further than the post-war years. Parents got lost at sea, the children were taken care of by friends, without bothering to involve any authorities.

Northern Norway must be more progressive than where I come from. There are farming families where, in the last two generations, it's believe that girl and boy children were swapped. It's a big problem because some of these people aren't sure who they're related to.