Imperial Diet II

[OverKnight]

Gunther rises and coughs politely:

It seems the Reich has done well under Chancellor Leopold's defensive reign. The one blow was the loss of Metz. . .

Tell me, Duke Hummel, did you show respect to the memory of Sigismund when you took his old city and exterminated his former subjects?

Perhaps you wished them to join him in Heaven?

I wonder what he would have thought of your actions, and of you using his name to forward your own ideas.

[Ignoramus]

Duke Ulrich, clearly annoyed, rises.

Duke Otto, what I did, I did first of all to mein Kaiser. Lorraine had cast him aside and instead accepted French yoke. Secondly, as Steward of Swabia, I cannot have mein subjects revolts go unpunished. Finally, it was out of respect to Sigismund that I butchered them. They had sold themselves to Sigismund's murders, and there is no greater shame or dishonour that could fall upon them than that.

Even Duke Leopold himself acknowledge that the preservation of many parts of the Reich was due to fortune, not his administration. If we do not go forward and conquer now we will fall.

Duke Ulrich returns to his seat.

[TinCow]

*A Bavarian messenger stands up, unrolls a scrap of parchment, and clears his throat.*

Electors, it is with some consternation that I have received word of recent debates in this Diet. I fully agree with those who have said that we must seek peace with the Papacy at all costs. Our continuing excommunication is becoming the ruin of the Reich. Many of our cities are restless, with some only remaining in civil order due to the allocation of large garrisons. We our surrounded by Catholic enemies who will likely never consider peace with us until we are reconciled with the Pope. As such, I firmly support Edict 7.3 and thank my son for wisely proposing such righteous legislation. I also second Edict 7.1, another worthy piece of Godly legislation.

However, I will not support Edict 7.2 and I urge others to vote against it. We speak of restraining our hand from further violence against our Catholic brothers, yet at the same time this Diet proposes to slay yet another Pope? When will this madness end, Electors? Do you not realize that acts such as these are further damning us in the eyes of God and men alike? We must pay the price for Kaiser Heinrich's sins and defend ourselves as best we can until peace can be achieved. Spilling more Catholic blood is not the way!

If we must pay 20,000 florins a year to receive peace, I will support such a decision, even if it were to bankrupt us. We must see to the salvation of our souls before all other considerations. Peace with the Pope is paramount and must be achieved at all costs. Only when that is accomplished can we justly prosecute offensive war against our enemies.

I support Duke von Kassel for the Chancellorship, as I heavily disapprove of Duke Hümmel's plans for further warfare and Catholic bloodshed. However, I urge Duke von Kassel to renounce his support for further Papal slayings. We have embarked on a Crusade to repent for the sin of just one Papal death. Surely we shall never be able to wipe away the stain of a dozen such deaths. True penance is costly and humbling. The entire Reich must accept that a heavy price must be paid immediately and without condition to return ourselves to membership of Christ's Church.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: A list of the Edicts proposed to date is posted in the entrance to the Diet:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...25&postcount=1

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Duke Hummel, I believe that your disagreements with the Diet about making war comes down to one simple fact: We are tired of war. You still want it, for whatever reason.

The Heinrichian Doctrine of expansion and counter-attack has had its uses, certainly. However, it is not without its side-effects. Look at where we stand, my friends. The Holy Roman Empire has become a war machine to the point where the income gained from conquering has eclipsed all others. It feeds on the conquest of lands, but this feeding has made it ever hungrier. So it constantly requires more lands, more armies, to whet its ever-growing appetite.

It is time to break this vicious cycle. If we do not find some other means of sustaining ourselves. For if we do not, our interior will crumble while our armies are far off on the frontier. You do not grasp this, Duke Hummel.

[Ignoramus]

Duke Ulrich after consultation with some Swabian electors stands up and addresses the Diet.

Mein electors, I shall put forward mein personal edict.

Charter Ammendment 7.1: The Dukes shall have power to dictate to whom their professional soldiers shall go. This does not apply to Peasants, Town Militia, Spear Militia, Sergeant Spearmen, Armoured Sergeants, Mounted Sergeants, Mailed Knights, Peasant Archers, Peasant Crossbowmen, or Ballistas.

Duke Ulrich bows and resumes his seat.

[FactionHeir]

*One of the clerks hands the messenger a letter which he quickly reads through before rising to speak*

Noble men, my master commands me to inform you, that he expresses his support for edict 7.2.

*and walking over to Hümmel*
And I still need my payment...

[OverKnight]

Gunther motions over Count Hans's "messenger" and discreetly gives him a few florins. He then turns to the Diet and speaks:

My lords, with this Diet session half over by my estimation, we have yet to hear from many of the Electors on the issues and candidates under consideration.

While I am sure the Second Elector of Austria, and the scribes, are relieved at the low number of Edicts, I do find it a bit worrisome. Proposals that arrive late in the session tend to receive scant notice. I hope the Electors will keep this in mind.

[Stuperman]

I second edic 7.2.

[Northnovas]

The Count of Zagreb stands and proceeds to the podium with document in hand...

My fellow electors I would like to propose the following personal Edict to the Diet. I submit the following,

Edict 7.4
The Chancellor is instructed to build up the Imperial Navy as follows:
Three fleets are to be recruited and manned for our three naval areas. Baltic Sea, Mediterranean Sea and Adriatic Sea.
Each fleet is to contain at least five Holks, our most advanced ship type to date.
The fleets will be stationed in the corresponding seas and serve to secure naval supremacy.

Electors, in this Edict I am encouraging the rebuilding of our naval power. These fleets will assist with the defence of our Northern Shores while the Mediterranean and Adriatic can defend the Southern Shores and assists with expeditions such as the Crusaders in the Holy Land.
While we encourage the Chancellor to build up the fleets this does not tie the hands of the Duke’s responsible for the upgrading of the port facilities in their respective port cities to prevent the fleets from going obsolete.

The Count hands the Edict to the clerk for record and returns to his seat.

[Ituralde]

I second Edict 7.4 as my scribes inform me it should be counted. I urge you to support this notion. I have found it to be a major hindrance during my last Chancellorship that our navies were close to nonexistant. We need to reestablish our naval supremacy and at the least be able to defend our ports and waters. If I hadn't been preoccupied with mustering enough armies to defeat our enemies on land I would have followed this closer during my term. I think this is a good proposal to be followed by the future Chancellor.

[TevashSzat]

I would like to second Edict 7.4 as well. Due to the fact that our crusaders will most likely start fighting in the next chancellorship with the possibility of conquering multiple cities, our crusader state shall need reinforcements as sufficient military infrastructure is built within the Holy Lands for the states to support themselves. Walking to the Levant by land takes too long and may even cause conflict with other nations. Should our naval power be poor, our troops may be shipped without sufficient guards and be destroyed by infidels with superior fleets.

[Stuperman]

I make this proposal with the intent of updating some old legislation to accurately reflect the current situation. I understand that uses up m personal edict, but it has been discussed.


Edcit 7.5:

Edict E1.7 shall be re-written from:

For the duration of the Crusade, the Reich will refrain from conquering any Catholic settlement and instead focus on defending the borders from outside attack and developing our provinces. This Edict does not apply to Thorn, Venice, Marseille and Breslau, nor does it apply to any settlement of the Reich which is captured by our enemies. Additionally, should the HRE be attacked by any nations it is not at war with at the time of the attack, one (1) settlement may be annexed from that nation of the Chancellor's choice.

to read:

For the duration of the Crusade, the Reich will refrain from conquering any Catholic settlement and instead focus on defending the borders from outside attack and developing our provinces. This Edict does not apply to Marseille, Ragusa and Breslau, nor does it apply to any settlement of the Reich which is captured by our enemies. Additionally, should the HRE be attacked by any nations it is not at war with at the time of the attack, one (1) settlement may be annexed from that nation of the Chancellor's choice.

I urge all electors to support this modest expansion that ensures the safety of the riech and wil prevent us from being doomed for all eternaty to hell.

[OverKnight]

Gunther speaks:

My lord will second Edict 7.5

It is part of his goals for his candidacy and will serve to shorten the borders of the Reich, make them more defensible and provide a port closer to the Holy Land.

I ask that another Elector comes forward to second, so that the Diet may vote on this important matter.

[Northnovas]

The Austrian Elector stands...

I second Edict 7.5 it keeps to the spirit of the original Edict and will offer security for our borders.

[AussieGiant]

Dukes of the Reich, Counts and Electors,

Greetings from Venice!!

Duke Otto must be commended for his well thought out plans and policies.

I will whole heartedly support his quest for being the next Chancellor of the Holy Roman Empire.

Duke Ulrich,

How would we reconcile with the Pope when you suggest actively attacking other Christian Nations? There is a ground swell of support for our reconciliation as you can well see, your proposal is going to directly prevent us from reaching our aim.

A defensive posture in Europe must be maintained and the edicts should support this.

If war is what you wish for, then make haste and join the Crusade. Having passed through the holy lands recently I am total sure there will be more blood shed that anyone can believe in the next few decades in this part of the world!!

Making war in Europe is counter productive. Trying to trade when everyone around you thinks you are going to hell is extremely difficult gentlemen. As the Count of Venice you are tying both arms and one leg behind my back…the potential for our nation to acquire wealth is enormous, but it will remain unrealised until we are back in the fold of the Pope's good graces.

All relevant edicts have been seconded so I await any further edicts for my consideration.

At this time I would like the Lords of this Diet to think about formulating an edict that organises legislation based on a report I sent recently to a number of Dukes.

“My travels have shown that our goods are especially valuable in regions far removed from our own. I can recommend any two or three merchant caravans be sent to the furthest reaches of Russia, South Western Africa and also sent with the crusade to the Holy Lands. Any of these locations will prove very lucrative to our Imperial coffers. Be warned my Lords. In these remote parts of the world our merchants must be very canny and resourceful. Foul means are employed by many nations and I have had many “near fatal” encounters. Our merchants must be of sufficient skill such as myself to avoid meeting an untimely end”.

I would also like to point out that I completely understand Lord Mandorfs position regarding further violence towards the papacy.

I would like to implore all of you to find alternative methods other than violence in achieving our aims.

To my Duke Leopold, I would like to once again state my gratitude for bestowing Venice to me.

As such I would like to invite the attending Lords to my newly appointed Estate after these Diet proceedings. Carriages will be waiting outside immediately after we have finished.

2nd Elector Austria, Count of Venice.

[Ituralde]

Ah, Dear 2nd Elector,

The passings of the last months have made one important official announcement within this Diet chamber slip my mind.

The 2nd, Third and Fourth Electors of Austria have been granted the title of Count for the respective settlementsof Venice, Zagreb, and Prague! This is to reward their outstanding service for the Reich in general and Austria in particular.

Another thing that I have missed and now like to put forward is the following Edict:

Edict 7.6:

To ease our relations with the Byzantine Empire an additional 400 florins per turn for a period of 10 turns will be given to our allies. This is to make up for the inconvenience caused by our Crusading Armies. This applies if no Military Access can be achieved with moderate means.


I urge the next Chancellor to follow this proposal even if my late proposing is slimming the chance of seconders. It is important that we don't alienate our allies more than absolutely necessary. Our relations are already at a low point and we have to redeem this situation.

I also like to add my support for Edict 7.5.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: The list of Edicts has been updated. Voting will begin at 9pm (UK time) tonight.

[OverKnight]

Gunther nods toward Duke Leopold:

It is true that the Byzantines are displeased by the presence of the Crusade on their soil. Duke von Kassel has informed me, however, that our forces will be leaving their lands in 2 to 4 years.

The Duke would very much like to support our allies, but the possible passage of edict 7.3 could place an enormous strain on Imperial finances. Whoever becomes Chancellor would need flexibility to spend florins as needed, with as few mandated commitments as possible.

As the Byzantines do not neighbor us and the Crusade will be outside their territory soon, my lord does not view this as a high priority. He would support the edict if the sum was lower, perhaps 200 florins a year. I, personally, do not like to quibble over such a small difference but it would save 2000 florins.

[Ituralde]

I have made the expierence that the 200 florins we are giving them now hardly make any difference. If we truly want to better our relations with the Byzantines we should go all the way and donate at least 400 florins. Adding another 200 won't make much difference. So either we give them enough to make a difference or we don't give them anything.

[AussieGiant]

My Lords, Gentlemen,

I would like to second edict 7.6

I'm sure under my tutelage Venice can foot the bill for such a small sum.

I would also like to propose the following edict;

Edict 7.7

A "Holy" flotilla is to be created of such size and strength as to secure safe passage for at least 5 priests. Secure and safe size means more than 5 ships. Once both groups are created they must then leave for the Holy Land in support of our Crusade. This will ensure our advancement in the Colleague of Cardinals over a period of time.

This edict can be repeated as necessary to ensure ongoing presence and advancement in the Colleague of Cardinals over time.

[OverKnight]

Gunther speaks again:

I will second edict 7.7 as it is consistent with my Master's stated goals. Though it might take a while to assemble the needed ships, as they are expensive when compared to recruiting a priest into the Imperial service.

I also hope that this will satisfy 7.1 as well.

[AussieGiant]

Yes I would agree with you Gunther.

The ships are on the agenda regarding the fleet edict, so it is more a combination of both edtics to ensure we have a long term plan to ensure we elevate our standing in the Colleague of Cardinals no matter what the outcome of our Crusade.

Ideally the priests would make use of the ships once they become available in sufficient numbers. The fleets are the priority in order to protect our habours, but once they are large enough we can then begin production to fullfil this edict and to send a consitent number of priest to the Holy Land until such time as our Crusading army can establish a foot hold and educate our priest locally.

[TinCow]

*A minor Bavarian noble from Nuremburg stands up.*

I believe Edict 7.7 is consistent with my Count's policies. Accordingly, using the authority given to me by Count Mandorf, I will also second it.

[Northnovas]

Austrian electors stands....

I would like to second Duke Leopold's Edict 7.6 to be brought to a vote.

Sits back with the Austrian delegation, though the Count of Prague is conspicuously absent and there is some concern to.....

[AussieGiant]

Raising his head from a document he is reading

I don't mean to be rude my Lords...but where in god great earth are the Franconians??

Have they all been slaughtered by rabid Polish pigs, or have we all come to the wrong hall??

[Stuperman]

Congradulations to Chancellor Otta Von Kassel and his election victory, may fortune smile on the riech.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: Indeed, congratulations to our new Chancellor! This 7th full session of the Diet is closed, although we may expect to hear from the Chancellor once he has become fully acquainted with our situation.

[OverKnight]

Gunther rises to read a letter from Otto von Kassel:

Greetings Prinz Jobst and my fellow Electors. News of the election has reached me in Anatolia and I am honored and humbled by your decision to make me Chancellor. The messenger I sent with this letter will first reach Duke Leopold outside Zagreb, and he has been ordered to engage the Hungarians, I'm sure he has crushed them. Once that is done, Count Gerhard Steffen and the Count of Venice will combine forces to meet the Venetians who are marching, once again, on their former capital. I am confident those stubborn merchants will, once again, come to grief in northern Italy.

Now that I am Chancellor, let me spell out how I will proceed.

First, with the passage of Edicts 7.2 and 7.3, I will pursue immediate negotiations with Pope Filippus. The second part of 7.2 will not be enforced unless I have a viable plan in place to achieve reconciliation. I will keep an eye on the progress of the Sicilian Cardinal in the College. All possible paths to reconciliation will be pursued, but I ask for the patience of the Diet. This is a thorny and complicated matter, and an immediate solution might not be possible. However, in accordance with 7.1 and 7.7, I will begin to recruit priests immediately.

In order to increase our negotiating power, I must keep a reserve of florins in the treasury. This could delay other projects, particularly in the first years of my term. It is necessary, however, though I do apologize for the inconvenience.

Second, the Crusade will proceed to the Holy Land through Anatolia. As soon as a diplomat can meet with the Byzantines, I will fulfill 7.6. This may take a while, but the Crusade will leave their territory shortly, and I hope this will lessen the chance for conflict.

Third, when funds are available I will bring more merchants into Imperial service. I will recruit them in cities that have the appropriate guild. I have asked Gunther to conduct a survey of guilds in the Reich, that way our agent recruitment will be more efficient. Once recruited, these merchants will develop their skills on local resources and then, when ready, they will be dispatched to trade more exotic and lucrative goods.

Fourth, again when the funds are available, I will fulfill 7.4 and 7.7 by rebuilding our navies. They have fallen into disrepair since Chancellor der Stoltze created the Imperial Navy, and this will be remedied.

Fifth, I am recruiting a diplomat in Hamburg to seek peace with the English. I hope they will be in a receptive mood after being decimated by Count von Hamburg. Good relations with our allies and non-hostile neighbors will be maintained when there are opportunities to do so.

Sixth, with the revision of E1.7 by edict 7.5 in place, I will seek to stabilize the frontiers of the Reich. The first steps in this process will be the conquests of Breslau and Ragusa. However, if our current settlements are threatened, their defense will take priority. Also, that skillful and obstinate French spy must be eliminated in Dijon to help free up Swabian forces.

Of course, our enemies will have some say in these matters, and plans may change as events dictate. Still, with Imperial bravery and skill, we will triumph.

Godspeed good Electors,

Chancellor von Kassel

[AussieGiant]

A messanger arrives from Venice

My Lords,

I wish to congratulate our new Chancellor, Duke von Kassel!!

Having said that, the turn of events from merchant to the Count of Venice has been extreme to say the least. Russia now seems safe in comparison.

I have sent one of my most trusted Captains to assist Count Steffan in destroying the Venitian army.

Good luck and good hunting Count Steffan.