At least you're good enough to admit it.Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi
Foreign Policy (war, alliances, tariffs, etc)
Domestic Policy (taxes, constitutional adherance, poverty, etc)
Gah!
Some other choice
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
At least you're good enough to admit it.
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.
"Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
Strike for the South
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Bush did far more for the Al Qaeda cause than any man alive today (and far more than any dead osama's did) he must go down in history as the man who made al qaeda a huge power and presence in international politics, i think some lessons have been learnt and john mccain would not follow such a self destructive path, i think with his 'strongman act' and 'tough rhetoric' he would be a little better for al qaeda than obama but i don't think theres much left america wants and is able to do that could help al qaeda out more
That is assuming america can't or doesn't want to invade iran....
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Too funny not to post.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Last edited by TinCow; 10-22-2008 at 22:13.
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
This is not weird at all. Their logic is either flawed or pinpoint perfect. In spite of their Allah fueled delusions I'm inclined to believe the latter. Al Qaeda's leadership is obviously paying close attention to our election campaigns as well as who is the preferred candidate of certain Middle Eastern leaders/nations. Al Qaeda is keen on playing some part in affecting our election and this is truly a clever move. Part of the McCain campaign's strategy earlier in the year was to illustrate who our enemies would prefer to have win this election (i.e. Iran's preference for Obama over McCain) and use that as a selling point to voters concerned about terrorism, our troops in Iraq or Israel. It worked against the Obama campaign as witnessed by McCain's stronger standing in the foreign policy polls back in the Spring/Summer. An endorsement of Obama by Iran only helps the McCain campaign.
As to Al Qaeda's logic...
A McCain administration will certainly allow Al Qaeda to maintain a high recruitment rate but the truth of the matter is Al Qaeda isn't doing too well in Iraq right now. Many regions of Iraq that were tolerant of Al Qaeda's presence are now working with Coalition forces to keep them out and inter-factional strife is at its lowest point since we invaded. So either Al Qaeda honestly believes what they're selling or they're playing a simple game of reverse psychology. Once we pull out the spotty Iraqi military won't stand a chance against Al Qaeda's unorthodox methods. With McCain in office Al Qaeda will maintain strong recruitment levels but will achieve little headway. With Obama in office Al Qaeda recruitment levels may or may not decrease but their leadership knows it will simply be a matter of time before they'll have free run of Iraq and a much better chance of succeeding after we pull out. At that point they can create and promote another boogie man to encourage new recruits to join the ranks. Upon our withdrawal suddenly the long term prospects of the creation of a powerful, model Islamic state will become that much closer to reality. It's not BS when you consider that Al Qaeda's far reaching goals are the creation of such states throughout the Middle East. Iraq is a large Arab nation with a wealth of natural resources that can better serve Al Qaeda's purposes unlike Afghanistan whose most profitable raw material is opium poppies (a resource that, unlike oil, offends a fundamentalist's sensibilities). In the turmoil following our pullout the Iraqi economy will no doubt tank leaving the younger male members of the population extremely susceptible to Al Qaeda's recruitment efforts. Even Iran's best efforts to counter this (while following their own geopolitical agenda) won't stand a chance against Al Qaeda. Also factor in that young Iraqis, being predominantly of Arabic descent, will probably feel more comfortable siding with fellow Arabs fighting for Al Qaeda on behalf of the Iraqi people than Arab or Persian insurgents backed by Persian money fighting on behalf of Iran.
Anyway it's easy to see why Al Qaeda is supporting McCain instead of Obama, they're simply looking to improve Obama's chances of winning.
Last edited by Spino; 10-22-2008 at 21:31.
"Why spoil the beauty of the thing with legality?" - Theodore Roosevelt
Idealism is masturbation, but unlike real masturbation idealism actually makes one blind. - Fragony
Though Adrian did a brilliant job of defending the great man that is Hugo Chavez, I decided to post this anyway.. - JAG (who else?)
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
The military overwhelmingly supports McCain.
I guess most of them remember the purges and cuts under Clinton.
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
When it comes time to actually open their wallets, the military favor Obama.
U.S. soldiers have donated more presidential campaign money to Democrat Barack Obama than to Republican John McCain, a reversal of previous campaigns in which military donations tended to favor GOP White House hopefuls, a nonpartisan group reported Thursday.
Troops serving abroad have given nearly six times as much money to Obama's presidential campaign as they have to McCain's, the Center for Responsive Politics said. [...]
The report tracked donations of $200 or more. It found that 859 members of the military donated a total of $335,536 to Obama. McCain received $280,513 from 558 military donors.
Among soldiers serving overseas at the time of their donations, 134 gave a total of $60,642 to Obama while 26 gave a total of $10,665 to McCain. That was less than the amount received by Republican Ron Paul, who collected $45,512 from 99 soldiers serving abroad, the report said.
From the Military Times poll:
Last edited by Lemur; 10-22-2008 at 21:57.
Re : Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
I dunno..I think I'll take their word for it. AQ really does want McCain to win. I don't think AQ expects Americans to do the opposite of what AQ tells them to do.
Whether or not AQ is right in their analysis, or whether Obama or McCain would serve America's interests better, is a matter of debate.
For AQ though, the choice for McCain seems logical. In their eyes, America is losing. Militarily bogged down, economically collapsing. They'll have more of it. They are looking for a fight, and hope to get more of it from McCain. If AQ had it their way, America would invade all the Arab countries. In fact, nothing would make AQ happier than to see the whole of Arabia turned into Palestine, and America into Israel. This is pretty much their mental map of the world as it is anyway. It is the world they long for. AQ has never shed a tear for lost Arab lives or for Arab misery. They relish in it. Nobody disrespects the sanctity of the life of an Arab more than AQ does.
If I had it my way, everybody would leave the Middle East tomorrow. No more buying of oil either. Then put a big fence around it and let them decide: wait forever in that hellhole of their own making until Allah finally gives them their earthly reward for their pious ways, or forget about that nonsense and get a life - like the Chinese, the Indians, assorted Islamic countries and everybody else.
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
With the average Ron Paul supporter you know you're dealing with people who are old school Republican isolationists in nature. With the average McCain supporter you know you're getting a mish mash of traditional & Neo-Conservative Republicans. With Obama you're getting liberal Democrats and... Well some months back I remember hearing how African Americans have donated an unprecedented amount of money to the Obama campaign. Using PZ's article as a jumping point I am incredibly curious as to what the racial makeup of the military donors was like for all the candidates listed.
"Why spoil the beauty of the thing with legality?" - Theodore Roosevelt
Idealism is masturbation, but unlike real masturbation idealism actually makes one blind. - Fragony
Though Adrian did a brilliant job of defending the great man that is Hugo Chavez, I decided to post this anyway.. - JAG (who else?)
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Are you really surprised that the Army is supporting a man who is both a Hawk and was once in the army himself? There was never any doubt that McCain was going to win the military vote.The military overwhelmingly supports McCain.
I guess most of them remember the purges and cuts under Clinton.
Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
Re: Re : Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
I agree. The social darwinist in me says if you're going to invade a nation then conquer it old school style, none of this international aid or tepid nation building crap. But beyond my Darwinian grumblings I couldn't give a flying fornication about what happens in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, Rwanda, Darfur, etc. Let them roast babies on a spit and glaze and baste them with crude oil, who cares! Good riddance to the lot of them.
As to getting a life... Be mindful that the Chinese are becoming the great colonial power of the 21st century. Mandarin intrigues are taking place in Africa as we speak.
"Why spoil the beauty of the thing with legality?" - Theodore Roosevelt
Idealism is masturbation, but unlike real masturbation idealism actually makes one blind. - Fragony
Though Adrian did a brilliant job of defending the great man that is Hugo Chavez, I decided to post this anyway.. - JAG (who else?)
Re : U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Obviously, McCain is right.
If I were a liberal American, I wouldn't take offense. I'd say that McCain is bloody right. 'Rural America' - if that is the term, really is the most God-fearing, most patriotic part of America. Albeit to a large extent by their own definition of God-fearing and, especially, patriotic. Neither of which qualifications I would want to apply to me.
Likewise, urban America, and blue America, are the most liberal, most cosmopolitan, and the least patriotic (in the narrow-minded sense of the word) parts of America. Which, I guess, in turn are negative qualifications for the other America.
As for which is the 'real America'...well logic seems to dictate that both are.
(And then there is the history of the meaning of the phrase 'the real America' / the real France / the real where ever: ever since the Romans, the rural life, the countryfolk, have been deemed the 'real this-or-that'. As oppossed to the artificial city, the cosmopolitans, the people who make their living not by tilling the soil and tending the livestock, but through trade, mone-lending, writing and God knows what other abominations....)
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
I did not mean to give the impression that those results were surprising to me.
Naturally the majority of the military will side with the man that would best lead and support them in their operations. Its a no-brainer.
Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 10-22-2008 at 22:34.
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
you mean gun-ho military types tend to vote republican?????The military overwhelmingly supports McCain.
I guess most of them remember the purges and cuts under Clinton.
shocked am I...
"If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
-Josh Homme
"That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
- Calvin
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Tough crowd tonight...you mean gun-ho military types tend to vote republican?????
shocked am I...
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Four years ago, Kerry was a "radically left-wing liberal."
Two years ago, Hillary Clinton was a "radically left-wing liberal."
Today, Obama is a "radically left-wing liberal."
Is it just me, or does the meaning of the word "radical" or "super" or "left-wing" get lost when it seems to apply to ANYONE, regardless of conservative or liberal bent within the Democratic tent, so long as a D is above their name and they don't vote like Lieberman does?
Seriously this is something that bugs me, this shoving all of us off into the extremist pile. Cheney's an extremist. Falwell's an extremist. But in different regards, naturally (economic/political vs. social). But Powell is not an extremist or super-radical. McCain didn't used to be before his Presidential incarnation and even now it's kinda more like he's pandering to them than truly one of them IMHO.
But Barack Obama... a super radical left-wing extremist? Seriously, what would happen to you guys if a for real SOCIALIST calling himself SOCIALIST ran for office? Would your heads explode from the strain of establishing a continuum space to place him on? You do know we have had SOCIALISTS run for office in the past, correct? I don't get this whole "if you are to the left of Liberman, you are super radically left-wing." Lumping everything from Hillary Clinton to Lenin and Hugo Chavez and Che Guevara.
Last edited by Koga No Goshi; 10-23-2008 at 00:07.
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Which democrat "of conservative bent" has been called "radically left wing"?
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Where did you get that? Obviously it was written by an old schooler (no mention of the abomination that is DnD 4.0.).
Well McCain was a Navy Aviator. That might be reason enough for the average Groundpounder (Army), Jarhead (Marine) or Bluesuiter (Air Force) to vote against him.
Chretien Saisset, Chevalier in the King of the Franks PBM
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Republicans don´t let small things like the correct meanings of words get in their way...if it sounds scary and makes the sheep...errr...their electorate vote for them they will use it..
after all this is the same republican party that attacked Kerry's war record....in an election where their candidate was Dubya.....and they managed to do it with a straight face.
"If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
-Josh Homme
"That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
- Calvin
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
For every "most radical, left-wing" I hear, I hear a corresponding "most extreme, far-right wing"...
I've heard people use this term to refer to Lindsey Graham, even Chuck Hagel!
According to either side, there is no middle!
It's not you, Koga. There is a spectrum on the left, not an extreme out of bounds "left side". Evan Byah's not an extreme lefty. Nor is Hillary, for that matter. She's not a left-wing idealogue, her problem is that she feels government is there to serve her personal needs, but she's far from alone in that view. Biden's not that left leaning. But even among his peers, Obama is more left than average. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. Hell, one or two concessions on 3rd term abortions and I could be tempted by the Blue Dog Democrats (especially right now).
I was thinking about this today. One unintended consequence of ending the capital gains tax is that municipal bonds haven't been particularly attractive for the past 10 years or so. As a result, municipalities are having trouble funding new projects. Maybe a higher capital gains rate for a while will have some positive affects as well.
Last edited by Don Corleone; 10-23-2008 at 00:40.
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.
"Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
Strike for the South
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
For future reference, next time the Dems plan on running a "war hero", they may want to take the time to ensure he didn't throw his medals away and accuse his fellow soldiers of being pillagers and rapists.Republicans don´t let small things like the correct meanings of words get in their way...if it sounds scary and makes the sheep...errr...their electorate vote for them they will use it..
after all this is the same republican party that attacked Kerry's war record....in an election where their candidate was Dubya.....and they managed to do it with a straight face.
That kind of thing doesn't play well with the sheep, and makes GWB look just peachy by comparison.
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
a disillusioned soldier plays worse than a daddy's boy draft dodging coward?....For future reference, next time the Dems plan on running a "war hero", they may want to take the time to ensure he didn't throw his medals away and accuse his fellow soldiers of being pillagers and rapists.
That kind of thing doesn't play well with the sheep, and makes GWB look just peachy by comparison.
wow.....I´ll keep that in mind for future reference..
"If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
-Josh Homme
"That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
- Calvin
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Your right, a decorated veteran that starts making false statements loses all his honor.............what is McCain's excuse? I forgot no one can say anything bad about McCain because of his service or the republicans go nuts.For future reference, next time the Dems plan on running a "war hero", they may want to take the time to ensure he didn't throw his medals away and accuse his fellow soldiers of being pillagers and rapists.
That kind of thing doesn't play well with the sheep, and makes GWB look just peachy by comparison.
Not that there are any double standards. Obama tax credits, wealth redistribution. McCain's tax credits, the way to save health care. Make sense to me and the GOP.
Last edited by m52nickerson; 10-23-2008 at 01:47.
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
This, I can accept as very reasonable. What I can't is the perception (and, as you say, probably some on the right feel the same in reverse) that the media is being constantly bombarded with pundits or commentators from the right describing pretty much anyone left of Lieberman as super-radically left wing. And especially when it is applied to someone like Hillary Clinton, I'm just like HUH?! There isn't even a WORD for me, if Hillary is as far left as the venacular allows you to go.
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Whenever i hear that bla bla (usually someone to the right of me) is a super radical left winger it just informs me of how far over to the right that person is...
TBH though its all relative, everyone is thier own centre ground, so unless your a moderate yourself fairly moderate voices from the other side can seem quite extreme...
Though i think a majority of the super radically left wing talk is more about scare/discourage voters from obama than commentaters stating how far to the left obama is to them, or more to the point how far to the right they are from obama
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
It's hard to believe how insane people can be. Especially when you're insane.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
I think you aren't giving Al Qaeda enough credit. They CLEARLY knew that their statement wouldn't be trusted, and that it would be assumed that they were supporting McCain to get Obama elected. Therefore their plan ALL ALONG was to trick us into electing McCain!
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
It's from a LiveJournal post:
http://somehedgehog.livejournal.com/245807.html
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Calm down Vizzini, we already have the land war in Asia. And both candidates are poisoned.I think you aren't giving Al Qaeda enough credit. They CLEARLY knew that their statement wouldn't be trusted, and that it would be assumed that they were supporting McCain to get Obama elected. Therefore their plan ALL ALONG was to trick us into electing McCain!
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If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
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"Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrRIjW_6xo4
I watched this and realized how awkward it is that he was thrown off by a sneeze. It was pretty funny.
I looked for other videos of politicians sneezing, throwing up or farting and couldn't find any.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 10-23-2008 at 16:34.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Yes but what if we already know that they know that we know that it was their plan all along to trick us into electing McCain? Hmm? Yes? What say you?I think you aren't giving Al Qaeda enough credit. They CLEARLY knew that their statement wouldn't be trusted, and that it would be assumed that they were supporting McCain to get Obama elected. Therefore their plan ALL ALONG was to trick us into electing McCain!
"Why spoil the beauty of the thing with legality?" - Theodore Roosevelt
Idealism is masturbation, but unlike real masturbation idealism actually makes one blind. - Fragony
Though Adrian did a brilliant job of defending the great man that is Hugo Chavez, I decided to post this anyway.. - JAG (who else?)
you guys. Why am I playing the cleric?
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