Should Holocaust deniars be jailed?

[KarlXII]

(Note: I do not, in anyway, condone Holocaust deniars, neo-nazis, ro radical right wingers. I know the Holocaust occured, I do not deny it. This is a mere question I have proposed)

So, reading the laws regarding Holocaust Denial, I have noticed that those who apparently publically deny the Holocaust are fined and even jailed. Now, to the point, should Holocaust deniars be jailed for this?

[Beirut]

No. It is ridiculous that in the fifteen-billion year history of the universe, one single event is not open to question.

For my part, I believe it happened.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Nope. If people want to be idiots, they have every right to do so.

[Martok]

Nope. If people want to be idiots, they have every right to do so.

What he said.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

It comes down to freedom of thought and freedom of speech.

I for one believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and should be allowed to express their views. Whether they're idiots or not, whether they're are conspiracy theorists or not, or whether they are sane or not. If you don't agree with them then don't listen to them.

(I certainly don't!)

[Lemur]

Why should one particular sort of offensive idiocy be illegal? Just say no to thoughtcrime. Freedom of expression rocks my world, baby.

[Crazed Rabbit]

No.

CR

[El Diablo]

Surely letting people say things "did not occur" is not a criminal act?

Whilst I can see that it is an imflamatory topic and highly charged - surely someone is allowed to have their opinion and voice it? Are these basic rights not what wars have been fought over?

A very small minority may think it a product of propoganda or an overstated attrocity but to ban them in voicing their "opinion" is pathetic.

Does that mean we will have to imprision the "flat earth" society?

Hey lets take it one step further - evolution v divine creation. Have a vote, a count up and then at the end imprision the minority for having an opinion.

[JAG]

No. People can have as many idiotic beliefs as they want and express them as much as they want, with a single condition - that what they express does not cause the harm of others. If someone wants to say the holocaust never happened, then they should be allowed to state that, whenever and wherever - if they had extremely bad taste, even in the accompany of Jewish people - but if they were to state, the holocaust never happened and look there is a Jew over there, lets go kill him - then, no, they should get punished in some way. (and the Jewish guy does get killed by someone) Just like people living in the West can denounce the West and have fundamentalist beliefs, but when they go around stating in public, bomb trains and behead civilians, that can't be right.

[Ice]

No. This is one case where it really is that simple. Again, hell no.

[Spartan198]

I agree with everyone else here. The mere hint of imprisoning someone simply for their own opinion (regardless of what that opinion is related to) is easily the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

Just for the record, I know the Holocaust happened.

[CountArach]

The Government has no right to stop people saying what they want - No.

[Dâriûsh]

There is no reason to imprison such douchebags. Let the world laugh at them.

[Adrian II]

What they said.

[HoreTore]

If you wish to rid the world of idiots, education and debate is the way to go. Jailing the idiots isn't a good option.

[FactionHeir]

No, they shouldn't be jailed or fined.
In fact, doing so seems to aim at quelling any dissent, suggesting that maybe it didn't occur (y'know, gvt cover up and all)

[Geoffrey S]

They shouldn't be jailed for denying that the holocaust took place. However, frequently holocaust deniers are either guilty of professional misconduct (in the case of certain so-called historians), or are guilty of using such claims to incite racial hatred - both of which are punishable through fines, and at the very least ruining professional careers. That's enough in my opinion.

[Magraev]

Maybe it's a bit harch to fine people for being stupid. In essense I agree about freedom of speech. Too bad neo-nazies get those rights too... Only danish newspapers are condemmed.

If I lost my family to the nazi death-camps I would certainly be hurt if somebody said I was a liar or delusional. Maybe as much as if somebody called me a jewish *** (don't know any jewish racial slurs...) or something like that. So what is the difference?

Remember that many millions lost family and friends in those camps. Not only jews, but also communists, handicapped, homosexuals, gypsies and policemen from occupied countries.

[Viking]

No, and I vote for a poll.

[HoreTore]

Only danish newspapers are condemmed.

Uhm, no... I can't think of a single time a nazi has said something and not been condemned...

[naut]

Nope, why waste money on housing them in jails?

[drone]

No. Jailing them gives them a vague sense of legitimacy, like the "government" doesn't want them spreading the word. They should be kept out in the open where people can point and laugh at them.

[Odin]

(Note: I do not, in anyway, condone Holocaust deniars, neo-nazis, ro radical right wingers. I know the Holocaust occured, I do not deny it. This is a mere question I have proposed)

So, reading the laws regarding Holocaust Denial, I have noticed that those who apparently publically deny the Holocaust are fined and even jailed. Now, to the point, should Holocaust deniars be jailed for this?

I am curious about a few things:

1. You're personal answer to the question you posed.

2. Are you surprised by the lopsided outcome of the responses?

3. What was your point to posting?

I find it odd to have such a question posed here in the backroom as it seems to be a forum of free thinkers anyway. The question posed seems to be answered by the very nature of the forum and its participants, yet no follow up adgenda

I dont know your posting style, so I am curious. The holocaust is still a fairly sensative topic I have had a few misunderstandings about it here in my time. You've piqued my intrest, and for the record my answer is no I dont think they should be jailed.

Disclaimer: Just because I am curious as to your intent and reasoning dosent mean your wrong to post your query or need to justify it in anyway. However if you would oblige I would be most thankful.

[Fragony]

misunderstandings

If you mean me I am still really sorry, and if you don't, still

[Odin]

If you mean me I am still really sorry, and if you don't, still

Yes you were one of them, we buried that hatchet frag its all good. Besides its just another example of how you changed my life.

[Fragony]

Yes you were one of them, we buried that hatchet frag its all good. Besides its just another example of how you changed my life.

Good. I shoudln't post when drunk. But I am not going to fall for these flowers either

[KarlXII]

1. You're personal answer to the question you posed.

2. Are you surprised by the lopsided outcome of the responses?

3. What was your point to posting?

1. Well, it is tough for me. On one hand, jailing someone for an opinion, stupid as it may be, kind of blows in the face of "Free speech". On the other hand, this is an existing law put in place by a democratic government, and is (not to sure, if Husar would like to correct) open for amendment, this means that the people who do get jailed for this knowingly and willingly break a law put in place. And then there's wether or not people have this opinion because of poor education, or they use this to incite racial hatred and dissent.

2. Yes. I have posed this question to many before, and a lot of the answers I get contains the words "Insensitive", "Nazi", and "Racists". Therefore, this is the first time I really got the answer "People should not be jailed for opinion, even if it is stupid" especially when it comes to the Holocaust.

3. Simple question.

[English assassin]

The answer is obviously no, but this thread is way too boring if I say what I think, so I am going to say the opposite.

Lets look at the facts. The holocaust happened. I mean, it really, really obviously happened.

Why might someone deny that fact?

1) they are ignorant of the evidence for the holocaust. Well, OK. Personally, before rushing out with a really whacky and very offensive point of view, I would check my facts a touch, but we'll give these guys some slack. They need some info. That's fine, we give them a book and send them home.

2) They are not relating to the holocaust as a historical fact, but as something else. OK, this gets a bit darker. Why would someone need to believe industrialised murder of jews (and others but mainly jews) didn't happen? Why would they need to communicate that belief. What agenda are they promoting, and should they be allowed public space to promote it? Is there a danger that their beleif may come to be seen to be legitimate? Maybe, even, a valid point of view?

I don't know about criminalisation, but there is a difference between being open minded and saying everything goes. If we are criminalsing not a private opinion but public advocacy, well, maybe its OK to impose some rules on public debate.

Ah, hell, I haven't even managed to convince myself. As you were, gentlemen.

Nice to see you around, Odin.

[Tribesman]

They shouldn't be jailed , they should be pilloried for their views, the entertainment value would be massive .

[Odin]

2) They are not relating to the holocaust as a historical fact, but as something else. OK, this gets a bit darker. Why would someone need to believe industrialised murder of jews (and others but mainly jews) didn't happen? Why would they need to communicate that belief. What agenda are they promoting, and should they be allowed public space to promote it? Is there a danger that their beleif may come to be seen to be legitimate? Maybe, even, a valid point of view?

I was hopeing someone would go down this road to liven it up a bit. I guess the same could be said for enforcing a law against speaking ill of an event in human history? Guilt is a poweful emotion and criminalizing something that envokes it might be a little to preemptive for my taste.

Nice to see you around, Odin.

Thanks EA, glad to see you as well. I might have to go back in the field again in the fall but for now I will be around soiling the good name of the backroom.