What's With the Birth Certificate Thing?

[Lemur]

I understood the manufactured controversy over President Obama's birth certificate during the election. It made a rough sort of sense, and it played into the "He's an outsider" meme that the McCain campaign was trying to ride to victory.

Nevertheless, the Obama campaign made a copy of his BC to the press. If it were a forgery, as the tinfoil hat crowd predictably screamed, it would have been debunked by the State of Hawaii. Unless they were in on it too, but now we're getting into deep paranoid delusion land, so let's leave it alone. Copy of his BC under the tag below.

Nevertheless, we have Alan Keyes going on about how Obama isn't a citizen, and now Senator Richard Shelby.

Question for the rightwing Orgahs: Is this a serious meme out there amongst the blogs and the talk radio? How much frothing about this is going on, and are people taking it seriously?

[rvg]

Not a right wing Orgah myself, but I *was* in the McCain camp. Anyhoo, the Obama citizenship speculations are strictly in the nutso kook category imho. He's as American as apple pie. He won, let's move on now.

[drone]

"Island of Birth"? Hawaii is just rubbing it in our faces.

[Geezer57]

There are lots of doubts about Obama's legitimacy for the office of POTUS. All of which he could have avoided, if he'd provided the original vault copy of his Birth Certificate for examination, if he'd opened his school records (some claim he accepted aid money as a "foreign student"), and if he'd clarified under what passport he traveled to Pakistan in the 1980's (he was too old to travel as a dependent on a parent's passport, but didn't have a US passport until he became Senator of Illinois, many years later).

Of course, if he'd provided all this info, he might just not be President now, eh?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

In truth, I've never understood this "natural born US citizen" clause. It's racist IMO - why shouldn't I/any immigrant from any country or background be able to go to the US now, live there for fifty years and become president? If the people are so vehemently opposed to having a foreigner in command they won't vote for them and so they wouldn't get elected.

[rvg]

In truth, I've never understood this "natural born US citizen" clause. It's racist IMO - why shouldn't I/any immigrant from any country or background be able to go to the US now, live there for fifty years and become president? If the people are so vehemently opposed to having a foreigner in command they won't vote for them and so they wouldn't get elected.

There's nothing racist about it. It's there to ensure that there is absolutely no conflict of interests and no clash of loyalties when it comes to the highest office in the land. Does it lock out some highly qualified people? Absolutely. I lament the fact that The Governator cannot run for prez, but that's the price we pay to ensure that the U.S. president is 100% loyal to his country.

[Subotan]

Likewise, considering as McCain was born inside the Panama Canal Zone, he too was actually ineligible to become President.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I understood the manufactured controversy over President Obama's birth certificate during the election. It made a rough sort of sense, and it played into the "He's an outsider" meme that the McCain campaign was trying to ride to victory.

Nevertheless, the Obama campaign made a copy of his BC to the press. If it were a forgery, as the tinfoil hat crowd predictably screamed, it would have been debunked by the State of Hawaii. Unless they were in on it too, but now we're getting into deep paranoid delusion land, so let's leave it alone. Copy of his BC under the tag below.

Nevertheless, we have Alan Keyes going on about how Obama isn't a citizen, and now Senator Richard Shelby.

Question for the rightwing Orgahs: Is this a serious meme out there amongst the blogs and the talk radio? How much frothing about this is going on, and are people taking it seriously?

I think only the hacks, and the nuttier hacks at that, are pushing this. Even the Senator you cited doesn't care about it.

I haven't heard any of the less whacky (aka non-Glenn Beck types) radio hosts talking about this, but I don't listen to them, so I'm relying on reports, or the lack of, on what they said.

EDIT:

In truth, I've never understood this "natural born US citizen" clause. It's racist IMO - why shouldn't I/any immigrant from any country or background be able to go to the US now, live there for fifty years and become president? If the people are so vehemently opposed to having a foreigner in command they won't vote for them and so they wouldn't get elected.

Racist? Do you even know what that word means?

CR

[Strike For The South]

Likewise, considering as McCain was born inside the Panama Canal Zone, he too was actually ineligible to become President.

BRINGING DOWN THE LIES

[Strike For The South]

EDIT:


Racist? Do you even know what that word means?

CR

US Citizen=White. HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND

[Hooahguy]

maybe it was forged?
jk. any sane person knows that hes a citizen.

[Spino]

In truth, I've never understood this "natural born US citizen" clause. It's racist IMO - why shouldn't I/any immigrant from any country or background be able to go to the US now, live there for fifty years and become president? If the people are so vehemently opposed to having a foreigner in command they won't vote for them and so they wouldn't get elected.

It's hardly racist, it's simply a privilege afforded natural born citizens. Full blown citizenship loses its value if you make it so easy for foreigners to attain.

[Ironside]

There's nothing racist about it. It's there to ensure that there is absolutely no conflict of interests and no clash of loyalties when it comes to the highest office in the land. Does it lock out some highly qualified people? Absolutely. I lament the fact that The Governator cannot run for prez, but that's the price we pay to ensure that the U.S. president is 100% loyal to his country.

So there's no need to check national born citizens for espionage or other actions that requires less than 100% loyalty to the country. Brilliant!!

It's a stupid law.

It's hardly racist, it's simply a privilege afforded natural born citizens. Full blown citizenship loses its value if you make it so easy for foreigners to attain.

Like impossible legally? Since you can only get born once.

But I guess thats one reason why the "bastion on induvidual freedom" has so much focus on family lines.

[rvg]

So there's no need to check national born citizens for espionage or other actions that requires less than 100% loyalty to the country. Brilliant!!

It's a stupid law.



Like impossible legally? Since you can only get born once.

But I guess thats one reason why the "bastion on induvidual freedom" has so much focus on family lines.

Can I move to Sweden and become king? Just asking.

[Lemur]

Can I move to Sweden and become king? Just asking.

I can. And I will.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

nevermind

[Spino]

So there's no need to check national born citizens for espionage or other actions that requires less than 100% loyalty to the country. Brilliant!!

It's a stupid law.



Like impossible legally? Since you can only get born once.

But I guess thats one reason why the "bastion on induvidual freedom" has so much focus on family lines.

Yes, legally impossible provided the law stands as is.

The naysayers might want to consider that this natural born citizen requirement was incorporated so as to prevent and/or minimize 'foreign intrigues' from having a direct influence on our nation's government. Meaning if anyone could hold the highest political office in the country then it wouldn't take much effort for a foreign power to move a 'favored son' through the citizenship process and then groom them for a life of politics, directly supporting them throughout their political career. Clearly the founding fathers did NOT want a situation where opportunistic international elitists or aristocratic 'blue bloods', wealthy foreign yahoos, foreign agents of a hostile power, etc. could somehow weasel their way into the system and make a mess of things. Requiring that the president be a natural born citizen simply helps to stack the deck in our favor. So yeah, if you're born abroad and want to be president then too bad, the US doesn't exist for the sole purpose of fulfilling every foreigner's fantasies. However if your kids are born here then nothing is stopping them from reaching for that brass ring.

Not that this stipulation prevents lobbyists and foreign governments from affecting our domestic & foreign policies but as I said, the 'natural born' requirement is simply an extra ounce of prevention.

[Ironside]

I can. And I will.

I would recommend the marry the crown princess (I think she still will maintain the head of state though) route, as royal elections are a bit old school (about 500 years off and required the predecessor's death). Any other route is nigh impossible for about anyone not belonging to the royal family. I guess abdication and naming a successor might work if you get really popular with the people so they don't abolish the monarchy instead.

Becoming a minister (and thus Prime minister, don't have enough time to check is there's special conditions for those but I doubt it) and getting the actual power, requires Swedish citizenship for 10 years. Slightly easier I think, and your wife might be less mad at you aswell.

And Spino, could a foreign agent become president in the US the way you describe, you already lost democracy decades before that event (requires loss of the freedom of press). And as you said, not really hard to get hold of candidates if you want to or need to.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Likewise, considering as McCain was born inside the Panama Canal Zone, he too was actually ineligible to become President.

That is about as true as saying that Obama was ineligible, as SFTS pointed out. An interesting election however, where the main two candidates were not from the mainland United States.

EDIT: And the "natural born citizen" clause makes perfect sense. If I was to move to America now, acquire citizenship, and eventually run for President and win the Presidency, I would have a difficult time - even subconsciously - making difficult decisions about Germany. It does make sense.

[lars573]

Can I move to Sweden and become king? Just asking.

That's what the ancestor of the current king did, Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte The Swedish king is French, the Spainish king too.

In truth, I've never understood this "natural born US citizen" clause. It's racist IMO - why shouldn't I/any immigrant from any country or background be able to go to the US now, live there for fifty years and become president? If the people are so vehemently opposed to having a foreigner in command they won't vote for them and so they wouldn't get elected.

Someone made a point that the natural born thing was to stop a european princeling from using his inherited wealth to buy his way to the top and ruin everything.

[InsaneApache]

He's a Russian Commie bastard. Jeez some people!

P.S. That there burf cetifcate, looks like a yankee plot to help the Russian Commie bastards.

[Vladimir]

This is the most recently I've heard about this reattempt. There is far more red meat for us frothing conservatives to devour. The "stimulus" package, while intended to stimulate the economy, stimulates fiscal conservatives more. Does anyone really care about this? Does anyone care that there was a female pope? Does it matter? There are much more salient issues to discuss.

[FactionHeir]

I disagree with the birth clause for the simple reason that someone from say Mexico illegally enters the US of A while pregnant and gives birth. Then returns to Mexico for however long and the kid can eventually go to the States and become President and for instance be fully supported and influenced by Mexico.

So really, it doesn't prevent what was suggested as its original reason by Spino.

[Strike For The South]

I disagree with the birth clause for the simple reason that someone from say Mexico illegally enters the US of A while pregnant and gives birth. Then returns to Mexico for however long and the kid can eventually go to the States and become President and for instance be fully supported and influenced by Mexico.

So really, it doesn't prevent what was suggested as its original reason by Spino.

Except he needs to live here for 14 permamnent years. Not to mention, Anchor babies are usually a last ditch effort to stay here.

[FactionHeir]

Doesn't seem difficult. He needs to get into the House/Senate/State Gov first anyway and work his way up.

[Strike For The South]

Doesn't seem difficult. He needs to get into the House/Senate/State Gov first anyway and work his way up.

Seems like a while for corn tortillas

[Don Corleone]

Not an issue for any but the most vitrolic. Personally, I think the natural-born citizen law doesn't make a lot of sense, but frankly, people from Europe who don't have paths to citizenship griping about not having the right to become president of this country rubs me a little the wrong way.

[Devastatin Dave]

You're right, its not a big deal....
So why hasn't Osama Bin Obama produce his birth certificate, explain how he traveld to Pakistan in the 80's when it was illegal for a US CITIZEN to travel there at that time, and why is the State of Hawaii withholding this important document....

But, he doesn't need to prove anything, he's the Messiah....

AND one more thing...
Ogabe Bin Hussien Obama is purposely trying to destroy the current ecnomic system along with the stock market in order for the populace of the United States to HAVE to become dependent on the government to a point where people can no longer be independent. We are watching the end of this country and all you outside of our borders better enjoy it now, because when the crap hits the fan and there is no US to call on, you're going to be on your own. Allah Akbar .... ;)

[Devastatin Dave]

You're right, its not a big deal....
So why hasn't Osama Bin Obama produce his birth certificate, explain how he traveld to Pakistan in the 80's when it was illegal for a US CITIZEN to travel there at that time, and why is the State of Hawaii withholding this important document....

But, he doesn't need to prove anything, he's the Messiah....

AND one more thing...
Ogabe Bin Hussien Obama is purposely trying to destroy the current ecnomic system along with the stock market in order for the populace of the United States to HAVE to become dependent on the government to a point where people can no longer be independent. We are watching the end of this country and all you outside of our borders better enjoy it now, because when the crap hits the fan and there is no US to call on, you're going to be on your own. Allah Akbar .... ;)

Oh, and I'm sure my posts will be deleted in the spirit of the future of the 1st Ammendment of the Constitution. God bless the UN...

[Strike For The South]

I heard you Dave