What's With the Birth Certificate Thing?

[Lemur]

I understood the manufactured controversy over President Obama's birth certificate during the election. It made a rough sort of sense, and it played into the "He's an outsider" meme that the McCain campaign was trying to ride to victory.

Nevertheless, the Obama campaign made a copy of his BC to the press. If it were a forgery, as the tinfoil hat crowd predictably screamed, it would have been debunked by the State of Hawaii. Unless they were in on it too, but now we're getting into deep paranoid delusion land, so let's leave it alone. Copy of his BC under the tag below.

Nevertheless, we have Alan Keyes going on about how Obama isn't a citizen, and now Senator Richard Shelby.

Question for the rightwing Orgahs: Is this a serious meme out there amongst the blogs and the talk radio? How much frothing about this is going on, and are people taking it seriously?

[rvg]

Not a right wing Orgah myself, but I *was* in the McCain camp. Anyhoo, the Obama citizenship speculations are strictly in the nutso kook category imho. He's as American as apple pie. He won, let's move on now.

[drone]

"Island of Birth"? Hawaii is just rubbing it in our faces.

[Geezer57]

There are lots of doubts about Obama's legitimacy for the office of POTUS. All of which he could have avoided, if he'd provided the original vault copy of his Birth Certificate for examination, if he'd opened his school records (some claim he accepted aid money as a "foreign student"), and if he'd clarified under what passport he traveled to Pakistan in the 1980's (he was too old to travel as a dependent on a parent's passport, but didn't have a US passport until he became Senator of Illinois, many years later).

Of course, if he'd provided all this info, he might just not be President now, eh?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

In truth, I've never understood this "natural born US citizen" clause. It's racist IMO - why shouldn't I/any immigrant from any country or background be able to go to the US now, live there for fifty years and become president? If the people are so vehemently opposed to having a foreigner in command they won't vote for them and so they wouldn't get elected.

[rvg]

In truth, I've never understood this "natural born US citizen" clause. It's racist IMO - why shouldn't I/any immigrant from any country or background be able to go to the US now, live there for fifty years and become president? If the people are so vehemently opposed to having a foreigner in command they won't vote for them and so they wouldn't get elected.

There's nothing racist about it. It's there to ensure that there is absolutely no conflict of interests and no clash of loyalties when it comes to the highest office in the land. Does it lock out some highly qualified people? Absolutely. I lament the fact that The Governator cannot run for prez, but that's the price we pay to ensure that the U.S. president is 100% loyal to his country.

[Subotan]

Likewise, considering as McCain was born inside the Panama Canal Zone, he too was actually ineligible to become President.

[Spino]

In truth, I've never understood this "natural born US citizen" clause. It's racist IMO - why shouldn't I/any immigrant from any country or background be able to go to the US now, live there for fifty years and become president? If the people are so vehemently opposed to having a foreigner in command they won't vote for them and so they wouldn't get elected.

It's hardly racist, it's simply a privilege afforded natural born citizens. Full blown citizenship loses its value if you make it so easy for foreigners to attain.

[Ironside]

There's nothing racist about it. It's there to ensure that there is absolutely no conflict of interests and no clash of loyalties when it comes to the highest office in the land. Does it lock out some highly qualified people? Absolutely. I lament the fact that The Governator cannot run for prez, but that's the price we pay to ensure that the U.S. president is 100% loyal to his country.

So there's no need to check national born citizens for espionage or other actions that requires less than 100% loyalty to the country. Brilliant!!

It's a stupid law.

It's hardly racist, it's simply a privilege afforded natural born citizens. Full blown citizenship loses its value if you make it so easy for foreigners to attain.

Like impossible legally? Since you can only get born once.

But I guess thats one reason why the "bastion on induvidual freedom" has so much focus on family lines.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I understood the manufactured controversy over President Obama's birth certificate during the election. It made a rough sort of sense, and it played into the "He's an outsider" meme that the McCain campaign was trying to ride to victory.

Nevertheless, the Obama campaign made a copy of his BC to the press. If it were a forgery, as the tinfoil hat crowd predictably screamed, it would have been debunked by the State of Hawaii. Unless they were in on it too, but now we're getting into deep paranoid delusion land, so let's leave it alone. Copy of his BC under the tag below.

Nevertheless, we have Alan Keyes going on about how Obama isn't a citizen, and now Senator Richard Shelby.

Question for the rightwing Orgahs: Is this a serious meme out there amongst the blogs and the talk radio? How much frothing about this is going on, and are people taking it seriously?

I think only the hacks, and the nuttier hacks at that, are pushing this. Even the Senator you cited doesn't care about it.

I haven't heard any of the less whacky (aka non-Glenn Beck types) radio hosts talking about this, but I don't listen to them, so I'm relying on reports, or the lack of, on what they said.

EDIT:

In truth, I've never understood this "natural born US citizen" clause. It's racist IMO - why shouldn't I/any immigrant from any country or background be able to go to the US now, live there for fifty years and become president? If the people are so vehemently opposed to having a foreigner in command they won't vote for them and so they wouldn't get elected.

Racist? Do you even know what that word means?

CR

[Strike For The South]

EDIT:


Racist? Do you even know what that word means?

CR

US Citizen=White. HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND

[Hooahguy]

maybe it was forged?
jk. any sane person knows that hes a citizen.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Racist? Do you even know what that word means?

Racism is when one race is treated below another (to summarise it). Here one race, the people of the US, are being considered above another race, the people of other countries in the world. If not racist, it is certainly discriminatory.

Clearly the founding fathers did NOT want a situation where opportunistic international elitists or aristocratic 'blue bloods', wealthy foreign yahoos, foreign agents of a hostile power, etc. could somehow weasel their way into the system and make a mess of things.

With all due respect to the founding fathers, they are admittedly a little outdated. That era has gone - I think in those days US elections were fairly closed to the vast majority of the public anyhow (a bunch of elite electors electing the president) allowing them to be more easily manipulated. It's an insult to the public to retain it today IMO, essentially telling them who they can and can't vote for. If they were attempting some sort of "coup" by getting themselves elected, then, with the intelligence and media we have today, it would be very difficult for news of this to stay behind closed doors and not reach the people.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Racism is when one race is treated below another (to summarise it). Here one race, the people of the US, are being considered above another race, the people of other countries in the world.

The peoples of the United States are not one race. They share a nationality. The law is not remotely racist or discriminatory, anymore than my government's refusal to grant Irish passports on demand, without restriction, to everyone from China.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Racism is when one race is treated below another (to summarise it). Here one race, the people of the US, are being considered above another race, the people of other countries in the world. If not racist, it is certainly discriminatory.

So you don't know what it means.

Like Banquo said, Americans are not a race. We're a nationality. Really, how could you think otherwise - white, black, hispanic, middle eastern, etc. people make up America.

With all due respect to the founding fathers, they are admittedly a little outdated. That era has gone - I think in those days US elections were fairly closed to the vast majority of the public anyhow (a bunch of elite electors electing the president) allowing them to be more easily manipulated.

What? You're just making this up, aren't you? The electors have always been selected democratically.

It's an insult to the public to retain it today IMO, essentially telling them who they can and can't vote for. If they were attempting some sort of "coup" by getting themselves elected, then, with the intelligence and media we have today, it would be very difficult for news of this to stay behind closed doors and not reach the people.

Is the bill of rights an insult to politicians and people who think they are smart enough to decide what rights we should have? Is the constitution an insult to people who think they know how to structure a government better?

CR

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

So you don't know what it means.

Like Banquo said, Americans are not a race. We're a nationality. Really, how could you think otherwise - white, black, hispanic, middle eastern, etc. people make up America.

Xenophobic then - sorry, got my words mixed up

What? You're just making this up, aren't you? The electors have always been selected democratically.

Sorry, it was a presumption

Is the bill of rights an insult to politicians and people who think they are smart enough to decide what rights we should have? Is the constitution an insult to people who think they know how to structure a government better?

That's different. In an election anybody should be allowed to stand - whoever they are. The voter should have the final say on their electability. Likewise, the voter should have the ability to change the constitution at will. So, if enough people approve of its modification, then it should be allowed to go ahead.

I'm shutting up now - I think I've just proved that I need a dictionary and a book on US history

[Crazed Rabbit]

Xenophobic then - sorry, got my words mixed up Sorry, it was a presumption That's different. In an election anybody should be allowed to stand - whoever they are. The voter should have the final say on their electability. Likewise, the voter should have the ability to change the constitution at will. So, if enough people approve of its modification, then it should be allowed to go ahead.

Geez, man, its not xenophobic either. We aren't afraid of foreigners. Must you always use such terms?

If the people want it changed, it can be through constitutional amendment. But no one cares.

CR

[Vladimir]

This is the most recently I've heard about this reattempt. There is far more red meat for us frothing conservatives to devour. The "stimulus" package, while intended to stimulate the economy, stimulates fiscal conservatives more. Does anyone really care about this? Does anyone care that there was a female pope? Does it matter? There are much more salient issues to discuss.

[FactionHeir]

I disagree with the birth clause for the simple reason that someone from say Mexico illegally enters the US of A while pregnant and gives birth. Then returns to Mexico for however long and the kid can eventually go to the States and become President and for instance be fully supported and influenced by Mexico.

So really, it doesn't prevent what was suggested as its original reason by Spino.

[Strike For The South]

I disagree with the birth clause for the simple reason that someone from say Mexico illegally enters the US of A while pregnant and gives birth. Then returns to Mexico for however long and the kid can eventually go to the States and become President and for instance be fully supported and influenced by Mexico.

So really, it doesn't prevent what was suggested as its original reason by Spino.

Except he needs to live here for 14 permamnent years. Not to mention, Anchor babies are usually a last ditch effort to stay here.

[FactionHeir]

Doesn't seem difficult. He needs to get into the House/Senate/State Gov first anyway and work his way up.

[Strike For The South]

Doesn't seem difficult. He needs to get into the House/Senate/State Gov first anyway and work his way up.

Seems like a while for corn tortillas