Why Homeschool? Because School Officials Argue They Can Cavity-Search Young Girls

[Crazed Rabbit]

Yup, the lawyer for the school district in Safford, Arizona that strip-searched (IE, requiring her to take off or move aside all of her clothing) a 13 year old girl because they suspected she might have a legal painkiller pill on her person, has said:

Matthew W. Wright, representing the school district, said that intimate searches should be allowed even for the most common over-the-counter drugs.
...
Mr. Wright did draw the line at searches of students’ body cavities, but only on the practical ground that school officials are not trained to conduct such searches. Mr. Wright said there was no legal obstacle to such a search.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us....html?_r=1&hpw

Of course, all the justices quoted were pathetic. Perhaps the worst example;

“My thought process,” Justice Souter said, “is I would rather have the kid embarrassed by a strip search, if we can’t find anything short of that, than to have some other kids dead because the stuff is distributed at lunchtime and things go awry.”

Because it's embarrassment that's the important factor here, not the right to privacy or the fourth amendment!!! And the student wasn't breaking a law - just @($#^(*@$&(*@ school policy!

CR

[LittleGrizzly]

just @($#^(*@$&(*@ school policy!

Im going to second CR for once here, I would struggle to support cavity or strip searches with even the biggest suspicions.... but for a legal pain killer... no frickin way this is way OTT

[Rhyfelwyr]

This is unbelievable. Ibuprofen is just quite a strong paracetamol, I have no idea why they would go to such lengths to find it.

Another question is, why would a student want to smuggle Ibuprofen into school?

[FactionHeir]

I dunno, but I kind of think the main outrage is because she's a girl and not a boy.

As for the drugs, I'd rather them make sure the kids don't go deal OTC drugs and get high/end up dead like that. If searching is needed when there is reasonable suspicion that a student is involved, then by all means, yes. The search was not random afterall.

And they did only do a strip, not cavity search. What the lawyer was saying is moot anyway as that's his personal opinion, not what actually happened/policy.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Scalia's quotes were good, ie "would a black magic marker be contraband? I see that it is listed on your school's list"

Wright's response "yes, the children use them to huff"

Counsel believes that the 4th amendment should be curtailed if a child is carrying a black magic marker. The school's case is offensive.

[drone]

I was surprised by the Court's latest ruling on warrantless vehicle searches, not only the ruling itself but the composition of the majority. Hopefully the sanity is contagious.

[Sheogorath]

Scalia's quotes were good, ie "would a black magic marker be contraband? I see that it is listed on your school's list"

Wright's response "yes, the children use them to huff"

Counsel believes that the 4th amendment should be curtailed if a child is carrying a black magic marker. The school's case is offensive.

Scalia always gets a bad rap for being the 'crazy conservative', but, you know, you gotta hand it to the guy sometimes.

[seireikhaan]

CR, tell me this. Where exactly in the article did it say the school officials said they should be allowed to issue cavity searches?


*Not that this isn't pretty damn disturbing, just asking that you not make outlandish lies*

[Crazed Rabbit]

CR, tell me this. Where exactly in the article did it say the school officials said they should be allowed to issue cavity searches?


*Not that this isn't pretty damn disturbing, just asking that you not make outlandish lies*

Um, right here:

Mr. Wright did draw the line at searches of students’ body cavities, but only on the practical ground that school officials are not trained to conduct such searches. Mr. Wright said there was no legal obstacle to such a search.

The implication being, of course, that if one school official did attend a weekend adult education course for cavity searching, they would have the legal right to cavity search a child for contraband (which includes legal drugs and black markers).

And this isn't the personal opinion of a lawyer but the arguments of a man representing the school district.

The problem is the district's and many court's view that kids in school have almost no rights.

Another question is, why would a student want to smuggle Ibuprofen into school?

It's against the rules for kids to have it, and any other drug, legal or not. The kids can't have aspirin. Which means I broke the rules a lot with my allergy medicine.

CR

[seireikhaan]

Yes. The point is, he in fact drew the line. You are ignoring this basic fact. The title is intentionally inflammatory and I find that highly aggravating.

And you're ignoring the fact that kids HAVE no rights. They aren't adults. Sucks, I know, I was one two years ago. That's the way the law is, as of right now.

[Strike For The South]

At my public high school I was stripped many times and then forced to shower with other men everyday. This went on for all 4 years.

Thank You CR for exposing the sham that is education, we should all hole up.

There were also minorties at my school. Who can I talk to about that?

[Beirut]

If anyone, anywhere, at any time, for any reason, forces my daughter (I have two daughters, 11 & 13) to remove her clothes, I will respond with instant and unrestrained physical violence.

Period.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Um, right here:


The implication being, of course, that if one school official did attend a weekend adult education course for cavity searching, they would have the legal right to cavity search a child for contraband (which includes legal drugs and black markers).

That's the implication the person who wrote the article is making.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I refuse to believe that a small-government conservative would use a sensationalist title to get a point across.

Although I am pretty disgusted by the fact they can get children to strip.

[Xiahou]

That's the implication the person who wrote the article is making.

Mr. Wright did draw the line at searches of students’ body cavities, but only on the practical ground that school officials are not trained to conduct such searches. Mr. Wright said there was no legal obstacle to such a search.

He said there was no legal obstacle to cavity searches. Sounds like he was arguing they could do them if they were trained to do so. The case was not triggered by a cavity search, but I've got to say that the title is factually accurate.

More directly on topic, I don't really think children enjoy all the rights and privileges of adults, but I think the parents should definitely be involved in the decision-making process for any searches like this. I think the school is out of line in doing it themselves.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

And you're ignoring the fact that kids HAVE no rights. They aren't adults. Sucks, I know, I was one two years ago. That's the way the law is, as of right now.

The rights of minors are extremely limited. Schools are usually accorded a great deal of "in loco parentis" authority over students. It thus falls to the parents to choose.

If this became a norm here, then I as a parent would homeschool or parochial school my children. Only decent response.

[HoreTore]

This is one of the reasons I'm going to study to be a teacher.

School staff are of the belief that they have police authority over the kids. And not just prosecution - they're also the judge and jury. This is simply insane, why so many students put up with it I can't understand. They're young, inexperienced and simply afraid of authorities. There are some differences, but those with experience have way too much respect for authorities, and those with no respect for authorities are unable to make a decent case for themselves. I'm proud to say I never put up with any of the crap they threw at me.

Granted, that did get me thrown out of high school.... But at that time I had already decided I didn't want to continue studying that field, so whatever

[Sasaki Kojiro]

He said there was no legal obstacle to cavity searches. Sounds like he was arguing they could do them if they were trained to do so. The case was not triggered by a cavity search, but I've got to say that the title is factually accurate.

More directly on topic, I don't really think children enjoy all the rights and privileges of adults, but I think the parents should definitely be involved in the decision-making process for any searches like this. I think the school is out of line in doing it themselves.

"Mr. Wright, is there any legal obstacle to a cavity search?"
"No there is no legal obstacle to a cavity search"

It does not quote him as saying that the only reason they didn't perform a cavity search was because there was no one trained to do so. That may be true, but only the author of the article has said so.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

The thread title is basically accurate then - the officials said they could, but they didn't.

I hope those upset by this stop paying the property taxes that support the public school boards - because if it's wrong for the school to strip search your child, shouldn't it be wrong to strip search the other children? Simply taking your child out of the equation isn't really a moral stand, is it? Consider those who can't afford to either homeschool or private school their children.

[Hosakawa Tito]

The case is being watched closely, and not just because of its R-rated circumstances. It's pitting school district officials against teachers. The National School Boards Association, representing 14,000 school districts nationwide, doesn't want reasonable school disciplinary actions to be second-guessed with lawsuits. The National Education Association, representing 3.2 million educators, counters that strip-searches are so emotionally harmful that they must be limited sharply.

They seem to think they have more leeway with strip searches than police. They acted on vague and uncorroborated allegations. Lawsuit time.

The first thing my school had better do is contact me, because on my way there I'll be contacting the police & my lawyer. This incident wasn't a life-threatening emergency so school officials can wait till they get parental permission. Instruct your child to refuse to submit to any strip search till you get there. Go to your next school board meeting and let them know your feelings on this issue. Demand clearcut procedures be enacted and that the parents will be part of the process in determining reasonable school disciplinary actions.

[Tribesman]

a legal painkiller

prescription-strength ibuprofen,
That changes the legality a bit doesn't it .

And the student wasn't breaking a law - just @($#^(*@$&(*@ school policy!

Actually no , she was breaking school policy but she was accused of breaking the law too
that Savana was currently concealing ibuprofen pills underneath her underpants for others’ oral consumption
supplying prescription drugs for others is a crime , so is obtaining proscription drugs under false pretences , just ask Rush Limbaugh

[Xiahou]

Starting at page 17 of the court transcript:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

JUSTICE SCALIA: Could I come back to your distinguishing a strip search from a cavity search. What would you require before you would allow a cavity search?

MR. WRIGHT: Nothing at all. A bright line rule. I would not allow it.

JUSTICE SCALIA: No cavity search in school, no matter what?

MR. WRIGHT: We're not even clinically trained to do that, Your Honor. I would submit that if a child has something stuffed up one of their cavities -- and I assume we mean private parts, the very private parts -- that the first thing to do would be to send them to the hospital. I mean, we just don't have that clinical training.JUSTICE SOUTER: Your basis -- your basis for saying that, I guess, is just sort of the practical one, we don't know how to do that type of thing. So far as the legal principle on the basis of which you justified this search, you could justify that search, too, couldn't you?

MR. WRIGHT: On the legal basis I could see that, Your Honor. I could see that result. But practically -

He admits there would be no legal impediment to cavity searches if the court decided in his favor. He says they would never be done though, listing the lack of proper training as a reason why.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

They seem to think they have more leeway with strip searches than police. They acted on vague and uncorroborated allegations. Lawsuit time.

The first thing my school had better do is contact me, because on my way there I'll be contacting the police & my lawyer. This incident wasn't a life-threatening emergency so school officials can wait till they get parental permission. Instruct your child to refuse to submit to any strip search till you get there. Go to your next school board meeting and let them know your feelings on this issue. Demand clearcut procedures be enacted and that the parents will be part of the process in determining reasonable school disciplinary actions.

You will find that by registering your child to attend that public school, you have given them the right to enforce all school-board approved policies (including such searches) in advance.

Your choice is to a) send your child to school under their rules, b) send your child to a different school under their rules, c) home school your child, or d) run for school board and work to change the rules.

A child's personal rights are REALLY limited.

[Xiahou]

You will find that by registering your child to attend that public school, you have given them the right to enforce all school-board approved policies (including such searches) in advance.

Your choice is to a) send your child to school under their rules, b) send your child to a different school under their rules, c) home school your child, or d) run for school board and work to change the rules.

A child's personal rights are REALLY limited.

B) isn't really a choice in the US- unless you mean coughing up for private school. For public schools, "choice" is a dirty word. You're legally required to submit to whatever rules they come up with or take on the sizeable cost of paying for your child's education independently.

[HoreTore]

Actually no , she was breaking school policy but she was accused of breaking the law too

So... They suspected her of breaking a crime. Who deals with crime again? That would be Mr. Police officer, certainly not some school inspector pedo.

[Don Corleone]

Home schooling won't be an option much longer either. California, Massachusetts and a few of the other "usual suspects" are enacting laws that in order to home school, you have to have a valid teacher's certificate.

Just shut up and give us your kids...

[Tribesman]

So... They suspected her of breaking a crime. Who deals with crime again? That would be Mr. Police officer, certainly not some school inspector pedo.

Not really , a school can do certain things on its ground , some of them even have their own police over there to make such things easier .
So in this case if this school had its own little police then obviously there is a chance the police would be trained for cavity searches so no problem there with the bend over bashful we think you are illegally in possesion of substances with intent to supply .

[Kadagar_AV]

Land of the free...

Aight?

[Samurai Waki]

Its not that I dislike Public Schools for lack of individual attention, but that such schools generally tend to be a breeding ground of distrust. I'm already a fairly paranoid individual, so I'll send my daughters to private school so that I'm actually in charge of my children's rights. Cavity search? No way in @#$%!*^& Hell, ever, not even at a Hospital, unless they both blood tested and UA'd them first and both came up positive for Narcotics. Not something ridiculous like Ibuprofin.

[Don Corleone]

Not really , a school can do certain things on its ground , some of them even have their own police over there to make such things easier .
So in this case if this school had its own little police then obviously there is a chance the police would be trained for cavity searches so no problem there with the bend over bashful we think you are illegally in possesion of substances with intent to supply .

Are you just going for affect, or do you really think widespread body cavity searches on small children by a private police force is a good idea?