Finally Multiplayer Gets A Lead Role

[Tomisama]

“It’s multiplayer, is where we’re taking the game and doing something very different,” says Mike. “Multiplayer has always been a bit lower down the priority list for Total War. We did the multiplayer campaign, but there’s a lot more scope for doing interesting things.”

“I guess our aim is to get to a point where the majority of people who buy the game routinely play multiplayer.” Laughing, he adds, “I really, really want to talk about this a lot but I’m not being allowed to.”

“To try covering the point that Mike desperately wants to cover,” laughs Kieran, “it’s safe to say that there is a major multiplayer innovation in the works, which we haven’t nailed down yet.”

“It’s not unambitious,” ends Mike.

Mike Simpson, Creative Assembly’s creative director

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/06/23/ex...-of-total-war/

[CBR]

But have we not heard promises like that before? It always sounds like it is going to be a new MP revolution. RTW added the ability to play historical battles online and that is pretty much it when it comes to new fancy stuff even with all the hype in later titles. And then I'm not gonna mention the stuff we lost

So unless there are some real detail I'll be sitting here with my arms crossed defensive mode on...


CBR

[Sp00n]

It doesnt matter how many new ideas and options they bring to the MP if theres no foyer its DOA.

[UglyElmo2]

But have we not heard promises like that before? It always sounds like it is going to be a new MP revolution. RTW added the ability to play historical battles online and that is pretty much it when it comes to new fancy stuff even with all the hype in later titles. And then I'm not gonna mention the stuff we lost

So unless there are some real detail I'll be sitting here with my arms crossed defensive mode on...


CBR

You and me both CBR. If I remember correctly this is the first time CA admitted to not placing much time/effort into MP. By "a bit lower down the priority list", he means; "at the bottom."

I'm not sure if you were one of the ones present when the original MTW's lobby was being programmed and we were asked to test it for functionality . . . this was 3 days or so before MTW was released. :) It only got worse with RTW and has continued downhill from there. To me the lobby should be the first thing addressed, options and features next, then balance and gameplay. Patches never seem to address the lobby, options/features, only balance and gameplay, so that is why I say gameplay should be last on the list of priorities.

[Swoosh So]

Well the bar is set! the whole mp community has 1 thing at the top of their mind for multiplayer and thats a main chat lobby, not like the ones in mtw2 rome but like the one in the original shogun and mtw1 simple and effective. As soon as we hear if its shipping with one or not we will know exactly how much truth is in the MP is the focus statement. If CA keep quiet about it untill release then we can only assume there wont be one we need a statement from CA prior to release telling us what theyre adding for MP. At the moment were all stabbing in the dark for ideas if we know that a chat foyer is going to be in the game then we can start saying what we as a community would like in it - right now all our energies just focussed on getting the essential feature back in.

[LadyAnn]

The main reason I don't play N:TW anymore is the lack of the Foyer and it forces me to play pickup games with people in my zone. I would never be able to make acquaintance with 90% of people in my own clan, let alone the best players out there. Yes, you can add people to friend list (can't add to friendlist if you don't know the other person, can you?) That makes it very hard for new players to mix in.
Bring back the foyer, with effective "ignore" features (R:TW and M2:TW had defective ignore features). You may have a handful of foyers (for each zone, but I can easily go to another zone to play).
I guess game publishers don't want to take the responsibility to police the foyer. But an ignore button works marvel. Just need to test it a bit more thoroughly.

Annie

[tibilicus]

Regrettably CA is too distant from the people who play MP so I doubt the foyer will make a return, I just can't see it.

[Nelson]

The overwhelming majority of players will still be SP. CA can improve the MP experience and that would be great. But they mustn’t ever forget who’s paying the bills.

[Tomisama]

The overwhelming majority of players will still be SP. CA can improve the MP experience and that would be great. But they mustn’t ever forget who’s paying the bills.

Who is paying the bill these days?

With out even knowing how many of those playing are multiplayer or single player, as they are counted together, I think that there is enough evidence below to put multiplayer way over the top for Steam users playing on June 30th 2010.

Or am I mistaken?

Current Players Peak Today Game

23,490 61,410 Counter-Strike: Source
23,048 56,456 Counter-Strike
22,208 68,605 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer
15,165 19,668 Team Fortress 2
9,641 15,144 Left 4 Dead 2
6,382 19,741 Football Manager 2010
5,816 7,457 Garry's Mod
5,009 6,722 Battlefield: Bad Company 2
3,722 6,713 Empire: Total War
2,842 3,762 Killing Floor
2,692 6,723 Condition Zero
2,645 3,957 Left 4 Dead
2,572 6,136 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
2,214 4,661 Napoleon: Total War
1,872 4,782 Day of Defeat: Source
1,613 1,613 Torchlight
1,602 2,694 Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - Chaos Rising
1,556 1,636 Mass Effect 2
1,544 1,976 Half-Life 2
1,500 1,960 Grand Theft Auto IV
1,496 1,600 Global Agenda
1,454 1,654 Borderlands
1,445 2,098 Supreme Commander 2
1,427 2,429 Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II
1,424 1,671 Dragon Age: Origins
1,378 2,776 Mount&Blade: Warband
1,233 1,387 Portal
1,227 1,778 EVE Online
1,161 1,243 Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword
1,145 3,742 Football Manager 2009
1,083 2,081 Half-Life 2: Deathmatch
1,073 1,750 Magic: The Gathering - Duels of the Planeswalkers
1,032 1,362 Mass Effect
795 1,046 Half-Life
758 948 Plants vs. Zombies
737 872 The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Game of the Year Edition
700 1,217 Day of Defeat
679 863 Sid Meier's Civilization IV
677 796 All Points Bulletin
627 875 Resident Evil 5
616 1,172 Just Cause 2
561 817 The Witcher: Enhanced Edition
559 634 Fallout 3: Game of the Year Edition
552 1,189 Sniper: Ghost Warrior
552 709 ARMA II - Operation Arrowhead
528 712 Assassin's Creed II
454 743 America's Army 3
451 606 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
433 523 Star Trek Online
425 536 Defense Grid: The Awakening
421 518 Shatter
420 619 Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor
395 598 Half-Life 2: Episode Two
390 739 Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
390 576 Company of Heroes
386 795 Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45
385 529 Call of Duty: World at War
377 542 Street Fighter IV
367 510 BioShock 2
355 424 Champions Online
349 823 Metro 2033
338 537 Audiosurf
334 597 Zombie Panic! Source
327 327 Red Faction: Guerrilla
322 828 Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising
322 532 Global Agenda Trial
316 451 Transformers: War for Cybertron
316 444 Half-Life 2: Episode One
312 592 Grand Theft Auto: Episodes from Liberty City
303 512 DiRT 2
298 655 TrackMania Nations Forever
295 377 Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
295 366 X-COM: UFO Defense
295 362 Rome: Total War - Gold Edition
276 460 All Points Bulletin
266 335 Tropico 3: Absolute Power
263 305 Titan Quest: Immortal Throne
260 356 Hearts of Iron III
257 347 Deus Ex: Game of the Year Edition
254 323 Europa Universalis III: Complete
253 413 Overlord II
252 527 Saints Row 2
251 426 Osmos
247 304 Team Fortress Classic
242 330 X3: Terran Conflict
238 342 EVE Online Demo
233 391 Insurgency: Modern Infantry Combat
230 356 Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts
223 652 Aliens vs Predator
222 265 Puzzle Kingdoms
216 302 King's Bounty: The Legend
212 334 Overlord
212 212 ARMA II
205 287 Medieval II: Total War
192 310 Darkest Hour
188 335 Race Driver: GRID
187 274 King Arthur - The Role-playing Wargame
187 261 Tropico 3: Steam Special Edition
176 420 Unreal Tournament 3
175 185 Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Colonization

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

[IncubusDragon]

Certainly saying the right words there... suddenly I'm wishing it was next year already, hehehe

Don't get me wrong, a chat lobby/foyer is high on my wish list too, but at the end of the day, I can't get STW or MTW to run on my machine, so it's the best chance I have of reliving some of the most satisfying gaming experiences I had.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Agreed. They might add in 1 or two new ideas, say, better MP campgain and a actual MP ladder system, but that's probably all they will do.

[Swoosh So]

Could not agree more spoon :) No multiplayer foyer and its already crap no matter what they add.
They should do the basics right then throw us their new innovations, mp foyer, ladder and balance, nice maps etc.
Tons of games now have great communications in game, world of warcraft for example having guild chat, whispers and several channels the players can chat in as well as the main chat and trade foyers/channels in the cities.
Keep steam if they want even though its a pile of steam... ....., but make a multiplayer foyer and let us at least have the ability to communicate for the love of god :p

Mike Simpson likes to talk about evolution and revolution in totalwar games...

Shogun Foyer: Excellent Design with ability to host tournament or seperate chat rooms, Simple and very functional.

Medieval Foyer: More basic but still "good" lost ability to make tournament or seperate chat rooms.

Rome Foyer: Terrible Design with Video running in background (bad idea) and worst colour scheme ever, Almost every player hated it.

Empire/Napoleon Foyer: There is none!

So the mp foyers devolved then became extinct, so hard to understand why this happened, its not even close to hard to throw in the simple yet excellent shogun foyer!
I feel so strongly about this and i bring the subject up every totalwar release, and with each release im more dissapointed.
I actually like NTW its OK but i cant bring my self to play the thing because of the lack of a foyer it just makes the whole mp experience so damn shallow

Aside from that will be interesting to see what they come up with for mp ideas, lets hope they dont go back to the ideas introduced in the shogun expansion tho, they were so bad i cannot even remember what they were lol! noone ever played them(dont want to be too critical as at least they tried and the ideas just did not fit with a totalwar game). Still we had the option to play them or not so wasent a disaster and i hope they do experiment with some new ideas as long as we have the option not to play them if we do not like them.

I'm really looking forward to Shogun mp campaign mode i must admit, give old opponent and some free time and let the good times roll :)
If the games a sucess and includes a good foyer i will with the assistance of friends setup a clan campaign, even if its just 1v1 we can allocate players to control certain generals or armies or simply designate the players to each battle as the clan leader sees fit.
The clan campaign that was run years ago was excellent for the community and almost all the big clans were involved even allowing unclanned players to join as ronin, was excellent and im sure with the ability to now run it fully in game it would be so much better now if we can get a community going.

If i were them id add a Mp chat foyer, and give clans the ability to register in game and have their own chat channels like the guild tab in world of warcraft, have friends lists and be able to whisper players as well as chat in the main lobby, also allow players to create tournament lobbies.

[vartan]

Agreed. They might add in 1 or two new ideas, say, better MP campgain and a actual MP ladder system, but that's probably all they will do.

I'm not the philosopher of SP and MP and I'm certainly no statistician of the trends of SP and MP, whether one is gaining ground at the expense of the other, or whatnot. But what I can say is that a ladder system or any pro-active support and push of the MP community by CA is better than nothing. Great job creative director.

[AMP]

Everyone for some strange reason screams for a better AI when the fact is making an AI that can be competitive to you're average gamer in this game is next to impossible with today's tech. I don't know why they bother to beg, but they do. I'd rather play against a human player with equal footing than a buffed up AI in stats or more units just to give me a challenge.

I have a feeling too that they are just going to add one or two things and that's it.

They are gonna have steam again so the odds of a foyer diminish greatly. :(

The MP side lacks A LOT of features and information and how much will they add after all these years? Just take a look at STW MP all the way to NTW MP and look at how much has really been added over the past 10 YEARS.

I want STW2 to be great, but I'm sure it'll be lacking in many areas...

[UglyElmo2]

I want STW2 to be great, but I'm sure it'll be lacking in many areas...

Not if they decide to go to a subscription-based game, like Wow. Which would mean they would have a REASON (Monthly subscriptions) to make MP the focus, and to continually update the MP game.

As much as I abhor paying a monthly fee to play an online game, I would be willing to pay for Shogun 2 if it catered to the MP crowd and offered up continually improving features, options, and community enhancements.

Actually, I think the only way we could convince CA to even consider making MP the focus is if we can prove to them they could make a lot of profit from doing so. Monthly subscriptions might be THAT way.

I would pay $15 U.S. a month for an MP focused game, which offered clan tags, a great chat lobby with all the bells and whistles, and a continually improving game engine, and not only a battle mode, but a mega-campaign. I think CA would love to do such a thing now, but might not think there is a large enough market for it to make it profitable.

[Nelson]

Well, the numbers are what they are so you are not mistaken, Tomisama. The data is not germane however as to the question of who pays the bills for Creative Assembly.

STEAM numbers don’t tell us much at all. First person shooters and traditional RTS games such as Star Craft dominated the MP numbers and did for years until MMOs arrived. Now 11 million people play WoW. What does that tell us about Total War? No more than STEAM statistics.

For the Total War franchise, SP accounts for an overwhelming percentage of players. CA knows this and has admitted as much. They would of course like MP to grow. They would like to increase sales for any play style. If they thought they could get a Total War MMO to fly they would be tempted to go for it!

[drone]

Brad Warrell (CEO of Stardock) posted on the Demigod forums some surprising stats on single-player/multi-player usage in the 2009 yearly report. Demigod was meant to be a multi-player game, the single player "campaign" was limited and the AI was not very good compared to good players, but only 23% of those that purchased the game ever went online to play it.

For Stardock, the more significant shock of Demigod has been the discovery of the low number of PC gamers who play strategy games online. Demigod’s single player experience, while decent, did not get anywhere near the care that the Internet multiplayer experience did. Despite this, only 23% of people who have purchased Demigod have ever even attempted to logon to play Internet multiplayer.

Demigod continues to sell thousands of copies weekly – enough to remain at retail during the Christmas season despite it coming out last Spring – but the number of people available to play online is typically less than 2,000 at a given time. This is in stark contrast to MMORPGs and FPS’s which tend to have very large online communities.

Our conclusion is that strategy games that we make and publish in the future will support multiplayer but will not sacrifice the single player experience to do so.
Developer Gas Powered Games has continued to update and provide support to Demigod despite its work on Supreme Commander 2. At the time of writing, two new demigods are nearly completed along with a couple of significant updates.

Having a good multiplayer is important, but it is not the end-all-be-all of a strategy game. That said, the multiplayer issues Demigod had at launch severely hurt it's potential.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

CA will always play nice with the SP crowd. If they don't, it's simple business logic. Then the SP'ers and modders will ditch TW, then bye bye TW. BattleField Bad Company is a great MP game, I enjoyed it much, but it can not compare with TW. You can say how it has a lot of MP players, and true. But why does CA care about that game? It has no reason to, because in the end, SP players are paying the bills for TW, not MP players from different games.

[Tomisama]

For the Total War franchise, SP accounts for an overwhelming percentage of players.

Please understand, that I understand, that you are absolutely correct for what has transpired to-date.

I remember a survey here at the Org in the early days, that proved out that only 5% were active multiplayers at the time.

And that was pretty much considered to be a normal percentage rating for multiplayers of any game that provided the option then.

That was a long time ago in computer gamming time, and the world does not work that way any more.

In fact the research available for current consideration by developers, points clearly to the fact that games that have a multiplayer option sell twice as many units, as those who do not.

Now this was research on major manufacturer consol games, but without a doubt shows the direction things are going.

To confirm it, the numbers I presented show just one game having more players playing multiplayer, than any other game having players total!

That game was the only one clearly labeled as totally a multiplayer game, but we all know the many of the others are predominantly multiplayer also.

The reason that the Total War series is not yet a major leader in the race for the ever expanding multiplayer market; is that they have never really even tried to pursue that goal.

It has always been about single player, because that was “the game” from the beginning (safe, and I don't blame them).

Multiplayer was an add-on to capture an additional few percent of the market, but was never considered seriously as potentially money maker, capable of out grossing the single player base.

Add a little Steam, and all perceptions change; even the most conservative observer will have to admit the future of computer gaming is in one word; multiplayer!

People playing against and with other people, is more exciting, more enjoyable, and more meaningful, than people playing against and with computers.

A simple undeniable fact, in my book anyway

[IncubusDragon]

I'm still waiting on my broadband to be installed, so haven't experienced multiplayer without a foyer (I last played multiplayer with VI)... I'm assuming that no foyer means it's like a console interface (just a list of games to join like on a PS3 or something) - maybe trying to dumb everything down to console level, but why? Maybe they're toying with a cross-platform MMO concept, that's the only reason I can think as to why such an integral feature would be dropped.

[Tomisama]

I'm still waiting on my broadband to be installed, so haven't experienced multiplayer without a foyer (I last played multiplayer with VI)... I'm assuming that no foyer means it's like a console interface (just a list of games to join like on a PS3 or something) - maybe trying to dumb everything down to console level, but why? Maybe they're toying with a cross-platform MMO concept, that's the only reason I can think as to why such an integral feature would be dropped.

This should probably be on a different thread, but since it’s here and I can’t move it, I will try to answer this nagging question.

In the beginning, with the onset of Shogun came the notion of personal honour.

The community was small by comparison then, and individual reputations were a priority.

Through the course of Medieval and Viking incarnations, we saw both the increase of population, and decrease in respectable behavior.

And with Rome and Barbarian a complete breakdown in social responsibility, and the lobby became a minefield of intimidation and bullying.

In the later days of Rome the quality of interaction was diminished to such and extent, that a Code of Honour was created by the Org multiplayers, to try to combat the trend downward.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forum...Code-of-Honour

It didn’t work in the greater sense, but did in some small way did comfort a few that there were still people playing that had self respect, and would treat you decently online.

I personally miss the foyer, but am not sure I would want it back now.

Some things are best left as sweet memories.

[Gregoshi]

This should probably be on a different thread, but since it’s here and I can’t move it, I will try to answer this nagging question.

In the beginning, with the onset of Shogun came the notion of personal honour.

The community was small by comparison then, and individual reputations were a priority....

...I personally miss the foyer, but am not sure I would want it back now.

Some things are best left as sweet memories.

The STW MP community may have been small, but it was strong with the kind of enthusiasm that could grow it. I was never much of an online player, but it puzzled me how support of MP seemed to diminish with each release as MP/online was the direction of the industry as a whole. Tomisama, your observation about the foyer is surprising, but I think you may be right about leaving it a "sweet memory". The gaming industry seems to encourage trash talking as the prefered way to interact with your opponents - just look at gaming ads in magazines to see that.