International board, or something, and the mods, and ciao

[Shibumi]

I just recently noticed that I was banned from the backroom, which is fair enough. This is a private forum, so of course you can set whatever rules you guys want.

I was somewhat surprised though.

The thing is, I joined up here because I had heard that aside from the TW content, this forum also offered political discussions of international standards, with some interesting characters, and dedicated moderators. For me, that was the selling point as to why I would sign up here instead of more popular TW forums.

I have noticed since I signed on that there has been quite some discussions as to how to keep the forum alive, and from what I have seen, this forum does not do as well as some others.

After having spent some time here, I have more understanding as to why this is. And I can't say I am much surprised. To be quite frank, I will just "bow out of here". Well, I was actually banned, so maybe I should just say I was kicked out.

The message I got regarding the ban:

Dear Shibumi,

You have received an infraction at The Org.

Reason: Major Infraction
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Couldn't resist, could you? Your Backroom access has been suspended pending staff review of your continued participation.
-------

This infraction is worth 2 point(s).

Original Post:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2053374337

I remember I was at home, a friend messaged me on ICQ (it still existed back then).

I watched the news fuss about it, had a beer, and thought: "cheers to whoever it was that slammed them"

Of course I am just joking, the third world should by then of course have learnt that it is unfair not to mention unseemly to fight back.

Someone replied to the post I made, and I at once stated that I was not joking about the joking..

The rage against my post would thus towards the part "the third world should by then of course have learnt that it is unfair not to mention unseemly to fight back"

Enough to warrant a ban on a board that claim to be international, maybe.

I did however see very very very very very worse comments in the OBL death thread. Didn't notice the ban stick being used much though.

Sure I said the 9/11 attack was "unseemly" and "unfair" instead of "a crime against humanity at large", but then, again, I am not from the US.

However, what actually made me decide that this was not really worth my time was the moderators reply when I asked what was wrong with the post.

I messaged you yesterday regarding this incident, maybe you missed it.

Regardless, my question was: what in my post was seen as offensive?

Hello Shibumi

No, I didn't miss your PM, I just had better things to do.

May I suggest you look at your post and the context it was made, and work it out for yourself. Let me know when the light goes on, and maybe your understanding will persuade us to lift your suspension.

Regards

BG

I have been in some contact with the moderators on other parts of the forum, and have been quite impressed. However, answers like this does not exactly impress me.

So, well, -1 member.

May I suggest you change the selling point of this board? "Org. - where americans can feel secure, and moderators grow their E-*****"

I am sure you can find a market

Ciao

[a completely inoffensive name]

no one even replied to my suggestion of making me an admin.

[Beskar]

no one even replied to my suggestion of making me an admin.

Because you would simply be too awesome and make everyone else feel little compared to you.

[Secura]

Wow, that was quite alot of stuff to get through; I've cleaned up the thread and removed everything I deemed irrelevant to the subject at hand or just inappropriate.

I know that this is quite an emotionally-charged subject and that the Watchtower is the place for bringing such grievances to light, but I'd like to ask that you keep it civil when you're posting; alot of good things have been said from both sides, it'd be a shame to drag the discussion through the mud. :3

This applies to both members and staff.

So put in some young blood, that is the solution.

By young blood, do you mean in terms of their time at the forum or their actual age?

I said I respected Secura's way of warning/infracting me; it's a standard you other moderators should use too

I'm always keen to hear feedback about my moderating from both fellow staffers and members, and I'm pleased that you took that warning for what it was, a simple heads-up about your posts; thank you for that.

Having said that, moderation is very much open to interpretation, and as such no two moderators respond the same way to things even if there is some consensus reached; my own moderating may be agreeable to some, but others may see it as pedantic or condescending (I always wonder if my PMs come across as too mother-to-child or not :<)... it should by no means be the basis by which other moderators follow. :P

As it happens, Secura is the only one with mod powers (aside from Admins) here. She also does the rounds in the Frontroom. Again if you disagree with Louis' post to such an extent either report it, or take it up with her directly.

Well-said, sir! The reported post function is there for a reason, don't be afraid to use it!

If you find someone's post in the Frontroom/Watchtower to be offensive, spam or whatnot, you should report it regardless of the colour of the poster's username; I do not treat anyone with favouritism, even those such as Beskar who I know 'IRL', and will always act in a manner appropriate of the robes.

This applies to other areas of the Org too; staff will act on reported posts, regardless of the source. :3

no one even replied to my suggestion of making me an admin.

I can't give a response to that offer (only being a mod myself and all! :P), but I do have something I think you could answer, given your posts thus far; what qualities do you think a staff member should have and which of those do you see/not see in the current team?

The Org's content and moderation starts with you guys, so now's your chance to really tell us what we're doing right and wrong.

[drone]

You did read post #1, written in green to denote the moderator's official rules for the thread, correct? Everyone was warned ahead of time to be on their best behavior. I'm not really sure what else you expected.

[Hamata]

go take your aurguian to twc they have a hole fourm reserved for debating

[Shibumi]

You did read post #1, written in green to denote the moderator's official rules for the thread, correct? Everyone was warned ahead of time to be on their best behavior. I'm not really sure what else you expected.

Not really, as in reading the OP. I think I just pressed read last (option from the main page, you know), and then the new posts. Are we expected to read OPs? However, what was written in green, is it somewhat related to what is said about posting about dead people?

My point is, that there seem to be some double standards on this international forum.

Joking about slams and claiming it is rude when people fight back = AN OFFENSE!

Joking about sand******* and talking about chopping the balls off of less educated = quite ok.

I think my point is, it is a private forum, you can set whatever rules you want. But just be open about it. Make it clear what is ok, and what is not. Otherwise it is hard for people to adapt, and equally, people of certain political views might (read: will) get frustrated when what is their local mainstream thinking all of a sudden is some sort of horrendeous error.

edit: Pharoah - I have, since some months ago. Thanks for the advice though, no matter how you meant it, it was good advice.

[drone]

Not really, as in reading the OP. I think I just pressed read last (option from the main page, you know), and then the new posts. Are we expected to read OPs? However, what was written in green, is it somewhat related to what is said about posting about dead people?

How are you supposed to know what the topic is if you don't read the OP?

Joking about slams and claiming it is rude when people fight back = AN OFFENSE!

Joking about sand******* and talking about chopping the balls off of less educated = quite ok.

Warnings and infractions are not made public unless the member makes it so, only perma-bans are posted.

I think my point is, it is a private forum, you can set whatever rules you want. But just be open about it. Make it clear what is ok, and what is not. Otherwise it is hard for people to adapt, and equally, people of certain political views might (read: will) get frustrated when what is their local mainstream thinking all of a sudden is some sort of horrendeous error.

Again, the rules were stated, quite clearly, in the OP of the thread.

[PanzerJaeger]

If a similar thread were made about, say, the recent Norwegian terrorist attack, and a member had made a similar "cheers to whoever slammed them" post, do you believe the moderator's response would be any different? The issue is the lack of respect (probably with the intent to troll) in your post, not the nationalities involved. BQ is Irish, Countarch is Australian, and Ser Clegane is German, and I think it is fair to say each leans towards your own critical point of view on recent American foreign policy. Only Seamus is American, and you don't seem to have had any issues with him. That backroom reputation you mentioned in your OP is based on a foundation of common decency and mutual respect, not any deference towards a particular country or countries.

I hope that you will reconsider your decision to leave. You are obviously a smart guy with strong opinions, which makes for an excellent backroom contributor. I was removed from the backroom for similar behavior for a little over a year in the past, and in that time I came to appreciate what that particular subforum represents and why the moderators are so proactive in maintaining decorum. It may have fewer members and it may get less traffic, but the quality of discussion on a bad day is tenfold better than what you can find on most other current events forums.

I know how entertaining it can be to play the game (and engage in all the drama that is associated with it such as this thread), but it is so much more rewarding to work within the established framework to bounce actual ideas off of those of other contributors without all the acrimony, personal insults, and flame wars that can be found on a million and one other forums. Trolling is ultimately a waste of time, but contributing with honest intentions will often yield a better understanding of opposing views, and sometimes even your own.

[Tuuvi]

It's possible to be anti-american without being a jerk and a troll.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I'm gonna be the lone ranger here and say he shouldn't have been banned from the backroom. Punished, yeah. But the backroom has a tendency to have disgusting opinions tolerated as long as they are "dressed up" nicely. I can find a few from the past couple months that I was surprised to see go unpunished.

[Hosakawa Tito]

I think my point is, it is a private forum, you can set whatever rules you want. But just be open about it. Make it clear what is ok, and what is not. Otherwise it is hard for people to adapt, and equally, people of certain political views might (read: will) get frustrated when what is their local mainstream thinking all of a sudden is some sort of horrendeous error.

Wow.

Rarely have I taken the advice of someone who detest me (even if they might be somewhat late reaching the conclussion, and frankly put - stating the very obvious). I guess that just shows the brilliance of the mods around here.

Flying jetliners into buildings and slaughtering thousands is flippantly justified and considered "mainstream thinking"? That's quite a crowd you think with. I don't detest you, but I do pity you.

[Samurai Waki]

The backroom may be open to serious discussions and strong opinions; but even if it was a joke, it was in very poor taste and totally insensitive, if you were in my bar.. I'd kick you out too.

[phantom]

My point is, that there seem to be some double standards on this international forum.

what was your first clue??? your not part of the 'in crowd', either deal with it or go elsewhere. there is one law for you and me and another law for them and their favorites, the people that rise to be 'senior members', and eventually moderators. of course they will deny it and probably call me a troll, but as an observer ive seen it a lot here.

Flying jetliners into buildings and slaughtering thousands is flippantly justified and considered "mainstream thinking"? That's quite a crowd you think with. I don't detest you, but I do pity you.

so debating something like 9/11 has to be done in such a way that it does not offend your sensibilities? its a controversial issue and divides much of the world so your not going to like some of the opinions you hear, if a debate forum does not allow freedom of expression, especially politically: just close it down as its not worth a and has pretty much become an exclusive 'old boys club'. if your going to 'moderate' people as soon as they post something which does not conform to your particular set of morals, then any 'debate' is without worth and it is also probably one of the main reasons this place has lost so many members.

[Husar]

what was your first clue??? your not part of the 'in crowd', either deal with it or go elsewhere. there is one law for you and me and another law for them and their favorites, the people that rise to be 'senior members', and eventually moderators. of course they will deny it and probably call me a troll, but as an observer ive seen it a lot here.

You're not a troll. But not a good observer either. I'm a relatively new moderator and didn't ask for it and so far I have never really found this in-club you're talking about, not as a member and not as a moderator with a bit more insight. Except if you mean that long-standing members know eachother relatively well, but that kinda comes with hanging out for a while, no?

so debating something like 9/11 has to be done in such a way that it does not offend your sensibilities? its a controversial issue and divides much of the world so your not going to like some of the opinions you hear, if a debate forum does not allow freedom of expression, especially politically: just close it down as its not worth a and has pretty much become an exclusive 'old boys club'. if your going to 'moderate' people as soon as they post something which does not conform to your particular set of morals, then any 'debate' is without worth and it is also probably one of the main reasons this place has lost so many members.

This is mostly correct, except that the policy here has always been that you should state your opinion with some respect towards other members and in a non-inflammatory way, which is quite possible and has nothing to do with demanding that everybody agrees with anyone's opinion, it's about not starting flamewars. I've seen a forum where this wasn't enforced and the conclusion they came to was to close down the politics section completely because they saw how it affected relations between members who could otherwise be good friends.

In the last months I've often seen Shibumi make very short posts that only seemed to serve the purpose of ridiculing America or other behaviour that could be seen as trolling, so even if he was joking, it's entirely plausible that some would think he only claimed that so his troll post would not be deleted and he wouldn't be infracted. I remember a time where he would make lengthier posts and explain his opinions etc. and IIRC he didn't have a lot of trouble with Backroom moderators then. If he came here to debate, then he should do so and not post a few lines that make him look like he hates the USA and wants nothing but to troll Americans.

I've also taken the liberty to edit your quote a bit since your use of language does not comply with forum rules either, maybe you should read them and note that the forum aims to be PG-13, which means if you look for an adult forum, you may well be wrong here, which I hope isn't our fault.

[Drunk Clown]

what was your first clue??? your not part of the 'in crowd', either deal with it or go elsewhere. there is one law for you and me and another law for them and their favorites, the people that rise to be 'senior members', and eventually moderators. of course they will deny it and probably call me a troll, but as an observer ive seen it a lot here.

The main reason why I visit this forum a lot less.
As said there are 2 camps: moderators + friends (upper class) and the new members + the members with another mindset (lower class). They treat both classes different. But who can blame them? Would you punish one of your friends? Or colleagues? (Yes even moderators cross the line. Although it's the line of the other camp. The line of Moderators+friends lies father away and is harder to cross.) You need to cooperate as a team and you can't have tension.

This is all false of course according to the upper class of this forum.
I think I'm 1 centimeter off of this line with this post. Sure this is our line not the upper class his line. LOL I would still have a mile to travel for that line.

[Strike For The South]

what was your first clue??? your not part of the 'in crowd', either deal with it or go elsewhere. there is one law for you and me and another law for them and their favorites, the people that rise to be 'senior members', and eventually moderators. of course they will deny it and probably call me a troll, but as an observer ive seen it a lot here.
.

Finally, someone GETS it

I have never been warned, banned, or reprimanded. And on the first of every month I get a cut of the ad revenue

BOW PLEBAINS BOW