I didn't leave my favorite game series, my favorite game series left me.

[Drunk Clown]

I vote that this thread goes to only saying which game series left you, without saying why. Cos it always comes to this game sucks, instead of I think this game isn't as good as the previous. And most of the reasons why are really shallow. The game has not become what you wanted it to be, but it doesn't suck. You're just disappointed, most of the time it's you, not the series. So don't add "this is what mainstream wants", you do not represent "core" gamers. So leave that out.

Most of you like Civ IV; I think it's boring. I do not claim that the game sucks, it's just not a game for me.

[lars573]

OK, I'll concede that they did the best they could. However, that is why a sandbox was not the best idea. Morrowind worked because they had more time to work on the content and add charm to the game overall. They maintained the design decision used in Arena and Daggerfall that empty spaces are boring and should be minimized. In Arena and Daggerfall, time was of the essence with any quest. In Daggerfall, you could purchase horses, carts, ships and properties to expand your mercenary gig and get were you need to go. Morrowind kept the flow with boats, Silt Striders, and propylon devices. You needed to know where you needed to go. You were rewarded for research. There was always something you had to look out for. Why oh why they decided to hop on the teleporter and quest marker pointer plague ship is beyond me. All it did was make those empty spaces emptier.

You want to know what the thing I HATED most about Morrowind was? The lack of a comprehensive fast travel system. Having to spend hours on the trudge through empty wilderness. Of only being able to fast travel to the cities or large enough settlements. I grit my teeth just thinking about all the time pissed away going from the stilt strider stop to a quest marker. I seriously question the sanity of you, or anyone, who claims to like the system Morrowind had.

[Prussian to the Iron]

You want to know what the thing I HATED most about Morrowind was? The lack of a comprehensive fast travel system. Having to spend hours on the trudge through empty wilderness. Of only being able to fast travel to the cities or large enough settlements. I grit my teeth just thinking about all the time pissed away going from the stilt strider stop to a quest marker. I seriously question the sanity of you, or anyone, who claims to like the system Morrowind had.

It was loads better than Oblivions fast travel system; instant-fast travel to any place on the map means no need or real care for exploration. Perhaps it coulda been a little more expansive in Morrowind, allowing for easier travel to the more remote areas, but it felt more real. Besides, it only takes a few minutes most of the time, especially with a high athletics skill.

It encouraged exploration, while Oblivion encouraged instantly teleporting between areas with no idea what was between them.

[johnhughthom]

It was loads better than Oblivions fast travel system; instant-fast travel to any place on the map means no need or real care for exploration. Perhaps it coulda been a little more expansive in Morrowind, allowing for easier travel to the more remote areas, but it felt more real. Besides, it only takes a few minutes most of the time, especially with a high athletics skill.

It encouraged exploration, while Oblivion encouraged instantly teleporting between areas with no idea what was between them.

Meh, I played Oblivion and never once used the fast travel system, if I hadn't read posts on the internet whinging about it I would never know it existed. I don't see why it ccouldn't have been put in for people who want to use it. I didn't like Oblivion and felt it was an inferior game to Morrowind, but fast travel had no effect on my game experience whatsoever.

[CrossLOPER]

You want to know what the thing I HATED most about Morrowind was? The lack of a comprehensive fast travel system. Having to spend hours on the trudge through empty wilderness. Of only being able to fast travel to the cities or large enough settlements. I grit my teeth just thinking about all the time pissed away going from the stilt strider stop to a quest marker. I seriously question the sanity of you, or anyone, who claims to like the system Morrowind had.

You knew about Divine and Almsivi Intervention, right? Also, the small settlements had boats. I don't remember finding an issue with locating a grotto or temple in the wilderness as the directions given were usually dead-on.

[lars573]

It was loads better than Oblivions fast travel system; instant-fast travel to any place on the map means no need or real care for exploration. Perhaps it coulda been a little more expansive in Morrowind, allowing for easier travel to the more remote areas, but it felt more real. Besides, it only takes a few minutes most of the time, especially with a high athletics skill.

If by a few you mean 20, then sure. For several quests I spent over half an hour going from the closest stilt strider stop to the dungeon location.

It encouraged exploration, while Oblivion encouraged instantly teleporting between areas with no idea what was between them.

Because what was between them didn't matter to the quest at hand. Besides the Dark Brotherhood sends you to places off the beaten path. Do that first and you've explored enough.

You knew about Divine and Almsivi Intervention, right? Also, the small settlements had boats. I don't remember finding an issue with locating a grotto or temple in the wilderness as the directions given were usually dead-on.

What are things that cost money, or are scrolls you have to find. It's not finding places that's the problem, it's the drudgery trudge to and from.

[Prussian to the Iron]

If by a few you mean 20, then sure. For several quests I spent over half an hour going from the closest stilt strider stop to the dungeon location.


Because what was between them didn't matter to the quest at hand. Besides the Dark Brotherhood sends you to places off the beaten path. Do that first and you've explored enough.



What are things that cost money, or are scrolls you have to find. It's not finding places that's the problem, it's the drudgery trudge to and from.

I'd rather have 20 minutes of running through the detailed and interesting countryside, discovering new places, then I would spend 5 seconds at a loading screen instantly teleporting anywhere I want.

Yeah they didn't matter to the quest at hand. But they were still explorable and interesting nonetheless. You can't just discount a cave or dungeon because it's not important right at that moment. True the Brotherhood takes you to a few non-insta-fast-travel places, but not that many really. And even then, it's not exploring enough. On an average playthrough of Oblivion where the player does every quest possible and fast-travels to whatever they can, I would expect maybe 20% of the landmarks (anything noted on the map, and some things that even aren't) to be discovered.

[lars573]

I'd rather have 20 minutes of running through the detailed and interesting countryside, discovering new places, then I would spend 5 seconds at a loading screen instantly teleporting anywhere I want.

I really prefer Cyrodill's environs to Vvardefell's.

Yeah they didn't matter to the quest at hand. But they were still explorable and interesting nonetheless. You can't just discount a cave or dungeon because it's not important right at that moment. True the Brotherhood takes you to a few non-insta-fast-travel places, but not that many really. And even then, it's not exploring enough. On an average playthrough of Oblivion where the player does every quest possible and fast-travels to whatever they can, I would expect maybe 20% of the landmarks (anything noted on the map, and some things that even aren't) to be discovered.

Wrong. It's much higher than that.

[Prussian to the Iron]

I really prefer Cyrodill's environs to Vvardefell's.


Wrong. It's much higher than that.

But do you prefer Cyrodiil because of the better graphics, or the better environments? Vvardenfell was varied; swamps, mountains, desert, plains, volcanic region,and, in the expansion, snow. Cyrodiil was pretty much just grasslands, a tiny bit o forest, and some snowy mountains.

And I highly doubt that. I know that on my first playthrough, in which I utilized fast travel to a great extent, I didn't discover anywhere close to the amount of interesting places.

here's a full map of Cyrodiil in Oblivion, with every location discovered. I'd be willing to bet that most people don't discover 20% of all the places without actively searching for them, which fast travel discourages.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[rajpoot]

The fact that Morrowind sorely lacked a fast travel system is one that cannot be refuted. Oblivion having one does not mean it forces players to use it. If one likes to roleplay and walk all around the map, it's their choice. But the point is it should be a choice.

On thread subject; The only game that comes to mind right now is Dragon Age. I can rant about how it was a terrible betrayal by Bioware, but everyone already knows that.

Edit:
Oh and Diablo. Number three is already off my list due to the new buy-sell system.

[lars573]

But do you prefer Cyrodiil because of the better graphics, or the better environments? Vvardenfell was varied; swamps, mountains, desert, plains, volcanic region,and, in the expansion, snow. Cyrodiil was pretty much just grasslands, a tiny bit o forest, and some snowy mountains.

Wrong again. The western part is hilly grass lands (the gold coast and Colovian highlands), the south is swamp (blackwood), the north east is mountains both forested (valus mountains) and snow capped (Jerall mountains), the central areas around Imperial city are a mix of forest (the great foreset) and transition areas (West weald and Nibany basin). But unlike Morrowind the transition isn't literally a line. Graphical candy aside, Vvardenfell is just poorly designed if you HAVE to walk/swim most places. Soulsteim, Cyrodill, and the Shivering Isles are much more walk friendly.

And I highly doubt that. I know that on my first playthrough, in which I utilized fast travel to a great extent, I didn't discover anywhere close to the amount of interesting places.

here's a full map of Cyrodiil in Oblivion, with every location discovered. I'd be willing to bet that most people don't discover 20% of all the places without actively searching for them, which fast travel discourages.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That map includes things that aren't fast travel locations. And so now your going to back pedal and slap qualifiers on what you can find. Bull. Going by that map one game I went about 60% of what shows up on the fast travel map.

[Drunk Clown]

If I see one thing here, it's that people over idolize Morrowind. Just wake up.

Most of your arguments are rubbish anyway. Fast travel is a choice, you're not forced to do it. More options is better according to you, so why not fast travel.

This whole point of you missing places around Cyrodiil caused by fast travel isn't a flaw of the game, it's a flaw of you, you used fast travel right?
It's just pathetic, you want to convince others so much that Oblivion sucks that you look for non existent problems.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Gentlemen,

Keep your posts in line with the Org standards. Reasonable people can disagree about what games they like and why they like or dislike them, and do so politely.

The Arena is a relaxed place to talk about games besides Total War, and it will remain that way.

Crazed Rabbit

[Kekvit Irae]

Oh and Diablo. Number three is already off my list due to the new buy-sell system.

^
This. Blizzard just gave gold farmers the green light to do as they please.
Torchlight 2, on the other hand, will be on the top of my 'must buy' list. Oh, and it's going to be only 20 dollars.

[lars573]

Explain?

[rajpoot]

Link

This kind of stuff is OK in am MMO. It ruins the concept of loot, for me at least, in an RPG.

[CrossLOPER]

Wrong again. The western part is hilly grass lands (the gold coast and Colovian highlands), the south is swamp (blackwood), the north east is mountains both forested (valus mountains) and snow capped (Jerall mountains), the central areas around Imperial city are a mix of forest (the great foreset) and transition areas (West weald and Nibany basin). But unlike Morrowind the transition isn't literally a line. Graphical candy aside, Vvardenfell is just poorly designed if you HAVE to walk/swim most places. Soulsteim, Cyrodill, and the Shivering Isles are much more walk friendly.

Point to me one spot in Oblivion that is comparable to either Vivec or the area where you find the shrine of Azura.

Graphical candy aside, Vvardenfell is just poorly designed if you HAVE to walk/swim most places. Soulsteim, Cyrodill, and the Shivering Isles are much more walk friendly.

OK, if you don't want to walk/swim somewhere, what do you suggest? I guess you could fly or even jump to the location....in Morrowind.

If I see one thing here, it's that people over idolize Morrowind. Just wake up.

Most of your arguments are rubbish anyway. Fast travel is a choice, you're not forced to do it. More options is better according to you, so why not fast travel.

This whole point of you missing places around Cyrodiil caused by fast travel isn't a flaw of the game, it's a flaw of you, you used fast travel right?
It's just pathetic, you want to convince others so much that Oblivion sucks that you look for non existent problems.

I'm not idolizing Morrowind. I'm just criticizing some of the design decisions they made in Oblivion, such as the combat mechanics which ended up cutting down on weapon types. Also I just found Morrowind more interesting. The stark variation between the natural environments, towns, races, the fact that the Dwarven ruins seemed much more interesting than the Ayleid ruins, probably because they stood out more. Regarding the variation between races, that variation has returned in Skyrim. I just hope that the voice actor count has gone back up.

[Jolt]

Invisible War was a good game and you cannot prove otherwise.

Everything is bad. Everything.

Story is awful, stupid, unbelievable and streamlined.
The Setting is awful. Is the game supposed to be Star Trek?
Levels are awful, small and streamlined.
Voice actors are awful.
Graphics were worse than Deus Ex 1 (Now that's an accomplishment). Their skin shined brighter than a star on outside lightning.
Changes made to the hud/Skilltree/ammo were awful.
Gameplay was awful.
The AI was awful.
God. Everything just sucked.

You play Deus Ex 1 and you love it. Then try switching to Deus Ex 2 and you immediately start getting the feel of how bad the game is.

And I'll allow one of the DX:IW game developers prove you otherwise.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Warning: The video has a couple of swear words.

Fortunately, Deus Ex 3 appears to be a worthy successor to Deus Ex 1, and I'm gonna buy it shortly.

[johnhughthom]

Fortunately, Deus Ex 3 appears to be a worthy successor to Deus Ex 1, and I'm gonna buy it shortly.

As somebody who shares your opinions of Deus Ex and that unmentionable thing codenamed IW(), I can assure you HR will not disappoint.

[Montmorency]

Everything is bad. Everything.

Story is awful, stupid, unbelievable and streamlined.
The Setting is awful. Is the game supposed to be Star Trek?
Levels are awful, small and streamlined.
Voice actors are awful.
Graphics were worse than Deus Ex 1 (Now that's an accomplishment). Their skin shined brighter than a star on outside lightning.
Changes made to the hud/Skilltree/ammo were awful.
Gameplay was awful.
The AI was awful.
God. Everything just sucked.

You play Deus Ex 1 and you love it. Then try switching to Deus Ex 2 and you immediately start getting the feel of how bad the game is.

And I'll allow one of the DX:IW game developers prove you otherwise.

Fortunately, Deus Ex 3 appears to be a worthy successor to Deus Ex 1, and I'm gonna buy it shortly.

What can I say? I disagree on all counts.

[Kralizec]

You want to know what the thing I HATED most about Morrowind was? The lack of a comprehensive fast travel system. Having to spend hours on the trudge through empty wilderness. Of only being able to fast travel to the cities or large enough settlements. I grit my teeth just thinking about all the time pissed away going from the stilt strider stop to a quest marker. I seriously question the sanity of you, or anyone, who claims to like the system Morrowind had.

Yeah, that's the reason why I generally made my Morrowind characters fast and athletic. Occasionally I would also use the alchemy "exploit" to create potions that increased running speed to absurd proportions, especially for missions that require a lot of wilderness hiking. Ditto for levitation potions.

The fast travel system of Oblivion is without the greatest improvement over Morrowind. The combat system is marginally better. In virtually all other respects Morrowind was a better game IMO, especially when it's enhanced with various mods.
Oblivion was a good game in itself and I enjoyed it, but what ticked me off was all the stuff that was part of Morrowind and not brought back in Oblivion. I missed spears, crossbows and throwing weapons. I missed levitation and being able to summon more than one Daedra/undead at the same time. I disliked that they changed the Imperial Legion from Roman looking to medieval looking, and I hated how they changed the Khajiit race, and to a lesser degree the Argonians and Dunmer.

[lars573]

Point to me one spot in Oblivion that is comparable to either Vivec or the area where you find the shrine of Azura.

Cloud ruler temple, Imperial city.

OK, if you don't want to walk/swim somewhere, what do you suggest? I guess you could fly or even jump to the location....in Morrowind.

The skip the walk fast travel system that Oblivion has. It cuts out the actual walk and estimates how long it would have taken you and plops you down after the appropriate time has passed. Everyone thinks Oblivions fast travel is some kind of instant teleport system, and it's not.

Yeah, that's the reason why I generally made my Morrowind characters fast and athletic. Occasionally I would also use the alchemy "exploit" to create potions that increased running speed to absurd proportions, especially for missions that require a lot of wilderness hiking. Ditto for levitation potions.

And I never did any of those things. I can't do magic or stealth characters. I like top club fools up-side the head too much.

The fast travel system of Oblivion is without the greatest improvement over Morrowind. The combat system is marginally better. In virtually all other respects Morrowind was a better game IMO, especially when it's enhanced with various mods.
Oblivion was a good game in itself and I enjoyed it, but what ticked me off was all the stuff that was part of Morrowind and not brought back in Oblivion. I missed spears, crossbows and throwing weapons. I missed levitation and being able to summon more than one Daedra/undead at the same time. I disliked that they changed the Imperial Legion from Roman looking to medieval looking, and I hated how they changed the Khajiit race, and to a lesser degree the Argonians and Dunmer.

And the changes to the combat system (while a huge improvement) are the reason spears are gone. Oblivion has 2 basic combat systems. melee and ranged. Spears/hafted weapons/staves would require a full third system. And I don't miss thrown weapons. They could bring back crossbows though. And really the Imperial armour in Morrowind was medieval with some roman stuff thrown on top of it.

Link

This kind of stuff is OK in am MMO. It ruins the concept of loot, for me at least, in an RPG.

So it's nothing more than Blizzard regulating, and profiting from, something that's been going on for years? And hear I though it was something. Once again I underestimate cry-baby gamers.

[rajpoot]

So it's nothing more than Blizzard regulating, and profiting from, something that's been going on for years? And hear I though it was something. Once again I underestimate cry-baby gamers.

Oh yeah sure. I remember how in Diablo 2 I got the best equipment at an online store, instead of loot chests.
And how playing Diablo itself needed me to stay connected to the Internet all the time.

Online stores such as this should be limited to MMORPGs, instead of polluting singleplayer games.

[lars573]

Oh yeah sure. I remember how in Diablo 2 I got the best equipment at an online store, instead of loot chests.
And how playing Diablo itself needed me to stay connected to the Internet all the time.

Online stores such as this should be limited to MMORPGs, instead of polluting singleplayer games.

You realize that item trading in Diablo is only stuff that the game gives out anyway? Show me evidence that this is going to anything but what has been happening for 10 years.

[a completely inoffensive name]

^
This. Blizzard just gave gold farmers the green light to do as they please.

I would rather have Blizzard moderate and take a slice from legal gold farming than have it the way it used to be. They are going to be there no matter what, why bother trying to fight them?

[Jolt]

I would rather have Blizzard moderate and take a slice from legal gold farming than have it the way it used to be. They are going to be there no matter what, why bother trying to fight them?

So, if I'm playing in Single Player and want a certain item, what's to stop me from getting a free trainer or hack or whatever to get me all the fricking items I want?

In a multiplayer game, it would make minimal sense to have such a system. In Single-Player... -.-

[Drunk Clown]

So, if I'm playing in Single Player and want a certain item, what's to stop me from getting a free trainer or hack or whatever to get me all the fricking items I want?

In a multiplayer game, it would make minimal sense to have such a system. In Single-Player... -.-

Your own principals?

[Jolt]

Your own principals?

Principals on what?

I thought that I was buying games to have fun, and if my idea of fun is having an overpowered level 99 with full Meteoric Diamond-made Armor and one Meteoric Diamond Two-Handed Sword in each hand that deals 9999 damage per hit and has 90% hit chance, from the very beginning of the game until the end, why should anyone have anything to do with that?

In a multiplayer environment where you are competing with other players, where they also waste their time playing a game, it makes (Minimal) sense to have a system where you can buy weapons from them, the other players that would take a very long time to farm or do quests to get the item, and since that item would be used against other players.

In a singleplayer environment, I fail to see the point. I'm playing against the computer. If I want the best weapon to defeat whatever dungeon I want, for my sole enjoyment, and if I don't want to waste 2 hours farming gold so I can go to the Auction House and buy that weapon for a huge price, I would cheat. Since I doubt Diablo 3 will have "get item x" cheats because of that system, then I would use a trainer.

The end purpose is that the game provides me what I purchased it for: To have fun.

[Drunk Clown]

Principals on what?

I thought that I was buying games to have fun, and if my idea of fun is having an overpowered level 99 with full Meteoric Diamond-made Armor and one Meteoric Diamond Two-Handed Sword in each hand that deals 9999 damage per hit and has 90% hit chance, from the very beginning of the game until the end, why should anyone have anything to do with that?

In a multiplayer environment where you are competing with other players, where they also waste their time playing a game, it makes (Minimal) sense to have a system where you can buy weapons from them, the other players that would take a very long time to farm or do quests to get the item, and since that item would be used against other players.

In a singleplayer environment, I fail to see the point. I'm playing against the computer. If I want the best weapon to defeat whatever dungeon I want, for my sole enjoyment, and if I don't want to waste 2 hours farming gold so I can go to the Auction House and buy that weapon for a huge price, I would cheat. Since I doubt Diablo 3 will have "get item x" cheats because of that system, then I would use a trainer.

The end purpose is that the game provides me what I purchased it for: To have fun.

I don't see why you won't have fun.
So according to this you don't like games which has cheats featured in it?

How is it a problem to have options? You said it yourself "I can go to the Auction House". It's your own choice.
I know people who like to be overpowered and walk through the game with cheats, but I don't care. I don't do it.

[Sarmatian]

He's pointing out the stupidity of implementing that system in a single player game, where you don't have to have the same, unmodded version to play. I can download a trainer and give myself all those nice items for free. So, if I feel like cheating, I can use a trainer, mod or even a crack and give myself anything I want without the need to pay, whether in real-world or in-game currency.

Now, Blizzard isn't stupid and I'm sure they're aware of this and will go to great lengths to make it impossible, or at least unbelievably hard.