Avoiding Realm Divide?

[Jacobin]

Playing my umpteenth attempt at Oda on Legendary I have managed to survive the first few turns and built up quite an empire along the south central coast of the main island.

However when I hit Realm Divide at legendary it all falls to pieces as I am attacked by samurai-heavy armies from former vassals and allies and have my trade routes blocked by enemy fleets from the far side of the map.

So other than not conquering anything (not really viable with the Oda as so many provinces are threatened from all sides) what tactics are available to put off RD?

As it is supposed to be relating to Daimyo honour as well as conquests I have been been sending out raiding armies to loot, demolish everything and then abandon enemy provinces to rebels who are typically much less a threat as either rebels or one province-clans than their current owners.

Anyone tried this and knows if it works? (yes I know I am taking a diplomacy hit but at this stage there is little point trying to maintain alliances anyway).

And does lowering Daimyo honour also have other negative effects?

[Maltz]

There seems to be two ways. In both cases, you have to pause your expansion when your yellow fame bar is just a little short from filling all the way up to Legendary. Then:

(1) (Confirmed) Use agents to turn everything else (except Kyoto) into Rebel lands. The realm divide will still hit, but there is nobody who can turn against you.



OR

(2) (Unconfirmed) Wait for an AI clan to take out the Ashikaga Shogunate first. The Realm Divide will not trigger. But you might have to wait a long time (longer than the time required to turn everything else rebel for sure). And you will have a very powerful foe to fight later.

[Fagar]

I am going to try and see if I can confirm this second option here Maltz..
In my current Oda campaign I am on the cusp of RD with 20 provinces but my long standing allies the Haketayama have 13 provinces and are at war with the Ashikaga, with a large stack in Kawachi...
I will try and facilitate them in the easy taking of Kyoto and see where that leaves us..

Personally Realm divide annoys me, I think it is too restrictive on intricate strategy and taking the time to build good relationships as in the end it all counts for naught purely on province numbers..

Jacobin..I have played with a realm divide mod in the past and found it very enjoyable..Maybe give one of them a go :-)

[Maltz]

I also read that there is a trick to make rather friendly vassals (to trade) after the Realm Divide.

Edited: I later confirmed that some statements I read is wrong (or has been patched), so following content has been edited:

Vassals made after Realm Divide are totally unaware of the Realm Divide. There are two Realm Divide triggers - when your yellow fame reaches maximum, and when you occupy Kyoto. Only make new vassals after both events trigger.

There is also a "-100 past grievance" modifier for a vassal that you helped revive. This offset the +100 military alliance modifier. Well, this is a bug! They are not supposed to hate you for reviving them.

You can ship your army to somewhere far away and start reviving clans (that have a trade port to trade with you). This also discourages your vassals from turning against you when they get their full stack - they can easily find some other enemies to fight.

[easytarget]

I'm pretty sure I've still has post RD vassals turn on me though?! Was this due to the conditions of where they arose then, is that what you're saying? Or whether they are major or minor when the re-appear?

[Fagar]

I have always had a soft spot for Shimazu, on account of them being the first clan I ever played on the original Shogun but rarely play them..
I find in S2 they get wiped out early the majority of the time and so I tend to bring them back when I get around to dealing with Ito..
As I am nearly always based in or around Kyoto at this time they provide an excellent and much needed stable trade partner after RD..
As far as Shimazu go I have not had them turn on me yet..
I have tried a similar thing with the Tokugawa but they are a lot less reliable, although I am reasonably sure I did have shared borders at the time of reviving them..and therefore took the diplomatic hit there..

Haketayama refuse to take Kyoto and I am one province away from RD so I am going to take Kyoto for myself and see the fun ensue from RD as I am vying for shogunism ;-)

[Maltz]

I'm pretty sure I've still has post RD vassals turn on me though?! Was this due to the conditions of where they arose then, is that what you're saying? Or whether they are major or minor when the re-appear?

I guess you mean vassals that are created from a revived clan? These post-RD new vassal is just like a vassal pre-RD. If your vassal is land locked by your provinces, it is likely that the script will force them to attack you when their military is ready (a full stack, for example). If you mean an existing clan at RD which is beaten down by you and turned into a vassal, they still have the RD penalty.

[Jarmam]

There is also a "-100 past grievance" modifier for a vassal that you helped revive. This offset the +100 military alliance modifier. Well, this is a bug! They are not supposed to hate you for reviving them. But there is one way to avoid this modifier - revive a clan that has NO land connection to your territory at the time of the revival. This way the new vassal will only have the +100 modifier, but not the -100 to offset it.

So ship your army to somewhere far away and start reviving clans (that have a trade port to trade with you). This also discourages your vassals from turning against you when they get their full stack - they can easily find some other enemies to fight.

!!!
Can anyone confirm this? If thats the case then Vassals post-divide just got useful again! This would be huge, I cant believe I never thought of trying this.

[Jungle Rhino]

My tips for RD are:

1. Save up a slush fund ~100,000 koku ought to do
2. Save up a couple of princesses for marriages to key clans - marry them off a couple of turns beforehand for maximum diplo++
3. Make sure your Daimyo is has high honour - this can get you +30 relations with some clans
4. Do not overlook the + diplo techs, and retainers. It all adds up.
5. Focus on a tax based economy with as many high level farms as possible running a big food surplus. Trade is for mid-game expansion and cannot be relied upon. Never let your army upkeep exceed your tax income during the mid game or you will founder post RD.
6. Form vassals after RD both to trade, and as a means to quickly pacify an unruly, or religiously different province.
7. Bomb the cr@p out of any enemies of a different religion with monks - one game I reduced Ito from having all of the southern island to two provinces with a prolonged monk/ninja campaign of rebellion/sabotage/assassination. You can do all this without actually declaring war :) Also, unlike vassals rebel provinces never backstab you and don't expand. By filling portions of the map with rebelling provinces you can pave the way for swift conquest without filling up your RD bar.
8. Economise your defenses - construct large castles at key choke points - the free garrisons there save you an enormous amount of upkeep.
9. Build a navy to cover your a$$ - Honma or somebody like them will declare war on you and dump a stack in your backfield.
10. Get a night attack general for an easy capture of Kyoto - or breaking up large enemy stacks.