New Forum Structure Proposals

[TinCow]

The staff have been discussing a reorganization of the forum for a while now. The objective of this reorganization would be to make the system more efficient; making it easier for people to find what they are looking for while simultaneously reducing the creeping 'sprawl' we are experiencing due to the endless addition of new fora for each TW game. The main proposed structural changes are as follows:

1) Use of an single Total War Legacy section to reduce the amount of index space devoted to older games. As you can see below, the proposed method of doing this reduces the actual space for each page, but does so in a manner that keeps all of the important game subfora accessible from the index. This has been done by making the parent forum for each game the current SP forum, instead of the current system in which the parent forum is just an empty category placeholder with no purpose except labeling. The disadvantages of this system are (1) it requires renaming the themed fora (i.e. Citadel, Colosseum) to more utilitarian names to enable new members to find what they are looking for (2) the sub-sub-fora get dropped from the index. The most recent game (currently TWS2) remains separate from the TW Legacy section, as it is the forum that most new members are arriving to look at. Once a new game is released, the new game would take the current TWS2 spot, and TWS2 would join the rest of the TW games in the Legacy section. This kind of system would significantly reduce the amount of forum lengthening that we experience with each new game release.

2) The creation of a new Modding category, which is designed to increase the visibility of the modding community, particularly the Hosted Mods, which all retain top index listing with this section, something which would not be possible if they remained as game-specific subsections under the TW Legacy section. This category is also headed up by a Modding Boiler Room, which is designed to be a single forum for modders across all fora to communicate. Input from modders indicates that the actual modding sections themselves should remain under the individual game fora, so the other modding fora stay where they are under the TW Legacy section, but they also get links off the Modding Boiler Room for ease of access (and the modding subfora within TW Legacy will also have links going the other way, for the same reason).

3) Major consolidation of the TW General Forums, Miscellaneous, and Tavern topics, to make them more comprehensible to new members. This involves multiple steps. First, all three forum gaming fora (Throne Room, Gameroom, Chapter House) are grouped together. Second, all other fora are placed into a single off-topic category, to clearly mark that they are not TW-specific. Third, the Hard-and-Software forum and the Apothecary are merged into a single tech forum which handles all tech topics, whether TW-related or not.

In addition to this, there are two separate proposals about how the Forum Gaming and Off Topic sections should be handled. One proposal gives them full forum index space, while another significantly reduces the amount of room they take up by having them listed as subfora.

I have prepared very rough mock-ups of the proposals below. Please note that these mockups do not include all of the forum renaming that would be needed, nor do they include all of the links that would be needed to make sure everything joined together in a sensible fashion. The below is focused on demonstrating what the index would generally look like, and how it would be organized.

Here are the mock-ups for the proposal for the TW related sections:





As noted above, for the Forum Gaming and Off Topic sections, there are two proposals. Here is the proposal with full forum index exposure:




And here is the much shorter version:


Here are some numbers on how these proposals compare to the current listing, in terms of length:

For the proposal with the full forum index version of the Forum Gaming and Off Topic sections, the layout takes up a total of 26 individual 'forum lines' (a 'forum line' being an entry that receives a forum icon). By comparison, our current setup takes up 35 individual 'forum lines'. This roughly represents about a 1/4 reduction in forum length. Also, keep in mind that those screenshots are with the TWS2 skin, which uses larger than normal icons for the fora. The scrolling length would be reduced on any other skin, by an amount that is about equivalent to three to five 'forum lines' (depending on skin) on the TWS2 skin. For example, on the Guild skin, the fora end at about where the Tavern Backroom is on the TWS2 skin.

For the proposal with the abbreviated forum index version of the Forum Gaming and Off Topic sections, the layout reduces the Forum Gaming and Off Topic sections down to two 'forum lines' from ten, resulting in a total reduction of eight lines. The cost of this is significantly reduced exposure for all Off Topic and Gaming sections. With this arrangement, the total forum size is 18 lines, which is almost exactly a 50% reduction in size from the current version.

Please provide commentary and criticism on the above proposals. Nothing is finalized yet and we very much want to know what the members think about these possible setups. Please remember that we are trying to balance the needs of the existing members with the needs of new members who are coming to the Org for the first time. Once again, I want to emphasize that the above screenshots do not include all the minor tweaks that would be required, such as some forum renaming, added links, and cleaning up some of the mods that are listed as Hosted Mods but which are dead and were never released as a usable mod.

Thank you in advance for your input.

[Beskar]

I am for the "full forum index exposure".

[Maltz]

Looks good. My suggestions:

1. The hosted mods can become links "hosted mods" in the first section. Then they do not require the large icons in the mod section. The link can still be given there.
2. I wonder whether the numerous off-topic forums can be combined based on similar topics. Currently a lot of posts come from off-topics, so it might be a good idea to leave them very visible.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I like the first Off topic/Forum gaming set up.

[Monk]

The shorter version looks terrible. If you guys are serious, please go with the full exposure.

[a completely inoffensive name]

"Engage".

[Nowake]

Oi, long time no see
And quite serendipitous to be here in time for this topic, since I remember that, when last visiting about 6 months ago, I thought the board needed it.

So, it is very nice of you to implement this TinCow

Agree with the rest that the slightly longer, full exposure version is still better, even if less radical a change.
If I would have a suggestion, it would be to have the Forum categories be made more visible. That is, New Members, Total War: Shogun 2, Previous Total War games, Forum Gaming, Off Topic. These titles should be bigger, so as to be more visible as you scroll down the page.
And if you don’t mind a bit of feedback in general, then

(1) it requires renaming the themed fora (i.e. Citadel, Colosseum) to more utilitarian names to enable new members to find what they are looking for

Direly needed for what my opinion is worth.
And in view of this, perhaps make sure all names in the On Topic categories and sections are crystal clear, except for the main SP (Tea House) and MP (Hachiman Fields) forum Sub-category titles of the current game, where the flavour should be kept – the voting and talk going along with it when choosing the names has always sparked a very convivial atmosphere as far as I recall, we should hold onto that part.

Sections like Ludus Magna and the Confucian Academy should, however, be renamed as clearly and plainly as possible to something like Game Mechanics and the same name should be used all over for this type of section.
In the same vein, rather than Total War Legacy, just write Previous Total War titles – it’s clear and clean.

Please note that these mockups do not include all of the forum renaming that would be needed

On that topic. Aside from replacing the flavour text, the explanatory notes below the forum section titles should be changed as well in my opinion. The text should be shorter, or more straightforward, and a bit more inviting too. Order should be emphasized when organizing these sections. After the SP, MP sections, we should always have Guides come up first, they’ve always been most important in attracting new members, we want them very visible. Then, in order of their importance for new members again, Mods, then the Game Mechanics sections (the Ludus Magna, Confucian Academy type of sub-forums), then AARs.

I would also suggest not displaying the acronym for AARs, but rather the actual name, After Action Report. I must confess, when checking up on the .Org a year ago I had no idea what AARs meant, but, at the same time, I had towards it that sort of “I’ve no time to check what this is about” mentality we’re adopting more and more nowadays to block the stream of info flooding our brains. It took me 1 month to bother clicking on the section and finding out, I kid you not.

Same thing applies for the Forum Gaming category; drop the section flavour titles there as well and go for clear descriptions and order it the other way around, let Total War Multiplayer Campaigns come first, followed by Interactive History Games and then Forum Games – despite the popularity of the latter among old-timers, the category should first try to emphasize Total War related forum gaming perhaps. It is one of those niches the .Org fills very well and which may at any time gain a large boost depending on the TW title released and the support ensured by CA for such features.

The Off Topic category may, on the other hand, be all flavour in my opinion. It already has the Tavern, the Watchtower, the Mead Hall and the Monastery, which together lead one to imagine one of those small Italian or French medieval towns – we may as well go ahead and complete the tableau by renaming the Hard- and software and the Arena sections in the same spirit, say, and this is merely off the top of my head, the Laboratory and the Foreign Quarter respectively. And again, we should try to list them in a more appropriate order. Say, we first have the Tavern with its Frontroom and Backroom – we should then place the Monastery, since so many Backroom talks touch on the subject of history, then the Mead Hall, since the section really is all about members getting to know each other better at its most basic as well. The Watchtower, then the Laboratory (Hardware and Software) are the sections where chaps go for help, so list them one after the other; and then, ofc, we’d have the Foreign Quarter (the Arena). We may even try to align the Entrance Hall along the same concept by renaming it the Front Gate or something similar, even if it would remain at the top.

And again, everywhere, we should place the most simple, inviting and straightforward texts.
Probably a bit much to just say “change this and that”, so below you have a hurried sketch of how I think it should read:
Note: Bold & Large stands for Forum category. Bold for Sub-category. Plain text for explanatory Sub-category notes. Underline for Sections.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

New Members

The Front Gate
Introduce yourself and learn our rules

Total War: Shogun 2

Fall of the Samurai
Chat about Single Player
Guides
The Tea House
Chat about Single Player
Guides
Game Mechanics
After Action Reports
Hachiman Fields
Chat about Multiplayer
Guides for Shogun 2
Guides for Fall of the Samurai
Clan recruitment and interaction
Tournaments & Ladders
Mods
Chat about Total War: Shogun 2 mods


Previous Total War games


Empire: Total War
Chat about Single Player
Multiplayer
Mods
Guides
After Action Reports
Napoleon Total War

Medieval 2: Total War
Chat about Single Player
Multiplayer
Mods
Guides
After Action Reports

Rome: Total War
Chat about Single Player
Multiplayer
Mods
Guides
Game Mechanics
After Action Reports

Medieval: Total War
Chat about Single Player
Multiplayer
Mods
Guides
After Action Reports

Shogun: Total War
Chat about Single Player
Multiplayer
Mods
Guides


Hosted Mods


Mods: Advice and Brainstorming
TW: S2 Add-ons
etc.

Total War: Shogun 2 Mod Development Forums
Sakura
etc.

Empire & Napoleon: Total War Mod Development Forums
etc.


Forum Gaming


Total War Multiplayer Campaigns
Chat about Hotseat Games, Play-by-eMail Games and Total War RPGs
Interactive History Games
Forum Games


Off Topic


Tavern Frontroom
Chat about anything non-controversial
Tavern Backroom
Chat politely about controversial topics
The Monastery
Chat about History
The Mead Hall
Chat about Arts, Letters and Stories by Orgahs
The TreasAARy
The Watchtower
Chat about .Org management
The Laboratory
Chat about Hardware and Software
The Foreign Quarter
Chat about Games and Gaming platforms

[TinCow]

Thank you for that post, there's a lot of sense in it. The themed forum names are a bit of a conundrum. We use them simply out of Org tradition, and, while the amount of confusion they actually cause is unquantifiable, they certainly have a least a mildly negative impact on the ease of use of the forum. At the same time, they also are part of what makes the Org the Org, and I think many existing members would be sad to lose them. I wonder how much benefit there is to retaining themed names anywhere if they are dropped in some sections. Why have themed names in the TWS2 section if those names will be dropped as soon as the next TW game comes out? Why have themed names in the Off Topic section if they exist nowhere else on the site? It would certainly be a shock to lose them all at once, but does it make any sense to keep them in some areas and not in others?

[Beskar]

I like Nowake's suggestions for the names for the off-topic areas especially, but no having any names at all would be another possible alternative.
That would boil down to...

Off Topic

General
General and Casual Banter and Fun
Serious
For discussions, debates and controversial topics
History
Discussion about History
Technology
Chat about Hardware and Software
Creative
Chat about Arts, Letters and Stories by Orgahs
Game
Chat about Games and Gaming platforms
Management
Chat about .Org management

[Andres]

Are you implying that .Org management is not serious, @Tiaexz ?



Should I change your avatar to a joker and make your title "Resident clown" then?

[Nowake]

Hmm, my previous post may have left you thinking about uniformity, yet my suggestions really targeted a few specific gains

The thing is, the potential member comes here because of the games. So we must ease one’s access to our resources as much as possible, one must feel one has everything at one’s fingertips when one seeks data. So if we change the names of those categories and sections we give them order and clarity, which for me are the greatest assets a forum can have, besides the community. Now that’s a good segue, since...

...on the other hand, the New Members and Off Topic categories are solely about the .Org community. Which, for better or worse, has a kind of history in many people’s heads. The customized names leave one to intuit a tradition of sorts. And that does exist. I’m sure I saw long timers describing themselves or at least they implied to be perceiving themselves as Tavern dwellers, Backroom lurkers or Monastery wonks and such. The Watchtower is pretty iconic a name as well by now. These 3-4 categories and sections have their customs and dropping them would erase that partially. To my mind, we want to keep these long-standing virtual areas and so, we may as well align the rest of the Off topic section titles to them.

And there is potential appeal in that for new members too. You stop by for the information, but if you want to stick around, you do so to be part of the community. Because really, absorbing the info about the specific Total War title you’re playing only takes a few evenings in between gaming sessions. It is one of the reasons old-timers do not post in the game sections after the first few weeks following a game’s release – not much to be said at all. So, the new chap will stay because the new chap wants to interact with Orgahs.
I think we should insert that term more often by the way. It references the both the .Org and an interjection long-timers love because members are always fascinated by what they define as old-school, it identifies a group, the group itself has a history in the larger TW community and it’s really catchy, unlike talking about TWC..ers? or .Com..ers? The latter may break some record for the worst pun ever but that’s pretty much it.

To conclude, if we’re to get this right, lets get the best of both worlds.
Oki, feedback over!

[Beskar]

You forget yourself, @Andres. I am the Org Management.

[TinCow]

As responses have been generally positive, I plan on implementing the new structure with the version including the full listing for the Forum Gaming and Off Topic sections. If you do not think this is a good idea for any reason, please speak up ASAP.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

As responses have been generally positive, I plan on implementing the new structure with the version including the full listing for the Forum Gaming and Off Topic sections. If you do not think this is a good idea for any reason, please speak up ASAP.

Overall, I like the set up - but can I make one suggestion?

Group the Frontroom and Backroom into an empty "Tavern Forum" - I think it's important to keep the two seperate from the other off topic forums.

Oh, and please, please, don't institute Beskar's suggestion for generically named off topic forums.

[Beskar]

Oh, and please, please, don't institute Beskar's suggestion for generically named off topic forums.

It wasn't my "suggestion", it was a suggestion for the hypothetical argument for such a "suggestion" !

My suggestion is actually -CLASSIFIED INFORMATION-









Last edited by Andres; Today at 22:49.

[TinCow]

Overall, I like the set up - but can I make one suggestion?

Group the Frontroom and Backroom into an empty "Tavern Forum" - I think it's important to keep the two seperate from the other off topic forums.

Oh, and please, please, don't institute Beskar's suggestion for generically named off topic forums.

What makes them different from the other fora? We have long since abolished all access restrictions to them, and it would certainly make more organizational sense for them to be with the other off topic, since that's exactly what they are. What other factor am I missing?

I won't be changing the off-topic forum names, as it's unnecessary in the 'long' format I will be implementing for those sections. That issue can be discussed further and independently, as it's not crucial to the new structure.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What makes them different from the other fora? We have long since abolished all access restrictions to them, and it would certainly make more organizational sense for them to be with the other off topic, since that's exactly what they are. What other factor am I missing?

I won't be changing the off-topic forum names, as it's unnecessary in the 'long' format I will be implementing for those sections. That issue can be discussed further and independently, as it's not crucial to the new structure.

Don't you think it's fair to say that there are people who post mostly in the Frontroom or Backroom, and that those populations cross-over.

"Tavern Frontroom" looks weird - they've always gone together as a Unit and they've never suffered from being "deeper" in the forum structure.

I'm probably just showing the tendancy to keep to a habit, but if they're both part of the "Tavern" aren't they better off clearly sperated from the other fora like the Arena?

[TinCow]

The basic reorganization is now complete. Please let us know what you think of the new structure. There are plenty of areas in which further changes could be made, particularly in forum names and descriptions. Please post any improvements, complaints, issues, etc. that come to mind and please do post about additional changes you would like to see, even things that have been posted above but not implemented yet. Just because something has not been altered yet does not mean it will never be done.

[Montmorency]

Off-topic
--Tavern
--Org Gaming
--Frontroom
--Backroom

How about it, for favor?

[Veho Nex]

The basic reorganization is now complete. Please let us know what you think of the new structure. There are plenty of areas in which further changes could be made, particularly in forum names and descriptions. Please post any improvements, complaints, issues, etc. that come to mind and please do post about additional changes you would like to see, even things that have been posted above but not implemented yet. Just because something has not been altered yet does not mean it will never be done.

Overall I'm a big fan of the restructuring except for one part. The Off Topic category should be reverted to its old look. I'm not saying this as I don't like change, it's just that in its current state it's sometimes a pain to navigate. I liked the look behind the game room front-room and back room being a separate part from the monastery and the arena. Right now there is just too much listed under the off topic forum that it feels cluttered at least to me. I could be the only one who feels this way though.

[Graphic]

I agree with Veho, it's a lot crammed into one section

[TinCow]

There's been some debate about whether to have the Frontroom/Backroom split out on their own. The problem we encounter with splitting up the Off Topic sections is figuring out a way to do so that makes organizational sense. Long-time members would be aware of reasons for having those fora in a different section, but it wouldn't make much sense for new members. New members would expect to find all Off Topic fora together under an Off Topic heading. How can we break up that group without making the structure arbitrary?

Also, I really think the Gameroom should remain where it is and not return to any relationship with the Frontroom/Backroom. We have three separate forum gaming areas. I think they will all benefit from the greater visibility that a communal section provides. It also wouldn't make much sense to have a Forum Gaming category, but have the Gameroom located elsewhere.

[Montmorency]

I believe your concerns are addressed by my proposal, Tincow. To be more specific:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Off-topic

--Tavern

--Forum Gaming

--Gameroom

--Throne Room

--Chapter House

--Frontroom

--Backroom

--Monastery

--Arena

--Mead Hall

--Support

--Tech Support & Discussion

--Watchtower

[TinCow]

There are some problems with that structure. First, every forum that is more than two levels (in that example, Forum Gaming, Frontroom, Backroom, Tech Support & Discussion, and Watchtower) down will just be a subforum link and thus not display a description. As a result, at a minimum we would have to rename the non-descriptive ones (Frontroom, Backroom, Watchtower) to utilitarian names so that new members would know what they are for. I think there would be a riot if I changed the name of the Frontroom and Backroom. Second, in that structure the Gameroom, Throne Room, and Chapter House would not even appear on the index. You'd have to click into Forum Gaming first, then go into one of them. That would make it significantly harder to get to those fora, which defeats the entire purpose of the new system.

[Montmorency]

If nesting is entirely out of the question for the sake of the descriptions, then we must accept the dismemberment of the Tavern.

Long live the Tavern.

[edyzmedieval]

While I appreciate the desire for change and refreshment, I think some things should stay like they were. The Off Topic section in particular, should have been Frontroom-Backroom-Gameroom. Too much crammed into Off Topic.

And the Hosted Mods thingy - can't we put them underneath their respective original games? I think it would suit the fora better.

[GeneralHankerchief]

What about possibly moving only the Watchtower up to the section with the Entrance Hall (as well as renaming the section)? This way the Watchtower - which serves an important function - becomes more visible and it does somewhat reduce the Off-topic clutter. Plus, this seems to be more consistent with the format of other fora I've seen.

[TinCow]

While I appreciate the desire for change and refreshment, I think some things should stay like they were. The Off Topic section in particular, should have been Frontroom-Backroom-Gameroom. Too much crammed into Off Topic.

Everything that's in the Off Topic section now was in the "Miscellaneous" section about a year and a half ago, except the Mead Hall. Is one additional forum really "too much", particularly since we eliminated or moved several other subfora out of the Off Topic section? Plus, where do the rest of the off topic fora go if they don't go there?

And the Hosted Mods thingy - can't we put them underneath their respective original games? I think it would suit the fora better.

This was done to give greater exposure to the mods. With the reduced structure for older games, all hosted mods would have been pushed completely off the index if they were left under their original games. That is not desirable, and the current position gives them greater prominence. That is, quite frankly, very much warranted for the older games. Old TW games pretty much exist ONLY for modding these days, so mods for older games should get some decent attention.

[TinCow]

What about possibly moving only the Watchtower up to the section with the Entrance Hall (as well as renaming the section)? This way the Watchtower - which serves an important function - becomes more visible and it does somewhat reduce the Off-topic clutter. Plus, this seems to be more consistent with the format of other fora I've seen.

This is a decent idea. We've been struggling to find something to put up there with the Entrance Hall for a while.

[Axalon]

This forum index change is clearly a turn for the worse - as it is...

I have no doubt that it has involved a lot of work for the people responsible for all this but the result is so poor that I can only say that you guys will have to work some more, for the sake of this site and the people that come here, sorry but there it is. The main culprit seems to be primarily the screwed up guidelines, principles, ideas and ambitions behind it. As it is the results does strikes me as straight up counterproductive in short. Now, I'll try to be constructive here...

The good things about it...

• NTW has now seemingly received full recognition as a game in its own right (controversy or not - there is more gained in that then lost by doing it).
• The more straight forward and basic names on sections/sub-sections at the expense of the previous stranger Org-naming conventions (which I never truly understood).
• The modders general "cross-game" discussion forum/section is a good idea (as I already said in the past).

The bad things about it, the highlights (but not limited too)....

• Drastic loss in visibility in the index for all proceedings and happenings for all regular TW-stuff (whatever it may be) and this regardless the game - save STW2 (as usual).
• Drastic loss in detail in the index for all regular TW-stuff (whatever it may be) and this regardless the game - save STW2 (as usual).
• Drastic loss in both detail and visibility on the index for all modding activities on TW-stuff (whatever it may be) and this regardless the game - save STW2 (as usual).
• Drastic loss in detail and visibility in the index for all serious and released TW-work hosted here and this regardless the game/engine - no exceptions. All visibility and traces of discussions and posts related to that are now shut down on the index. That is just hostile. It is even worse then over at the CA boards that has done similar crap to mods - severing them from the engines/games they clearly belong too. It is just counterproductive.
• The bunching up of all TW-games in one section. It gives a very unserious impression of this site - besides that it is plain stupid and totally unwarranted. The games are games in their own right as each engine is different and functions differently - that is a matter of fact - we all know this. And, it is counterproductive. Just because the CA-boards does this kind of crap does not mean that it has too be or should be repeated here…
• We still need to scroll the damn index anyhow so that excuse/motive for doing all this and the actual nominal gains in scrolling truly achieved here is done at unacceptable and horrendous costs in both detail, visibility and sections on the index. It does not stand in any reasonable proportion to the price it demands. If people can't be expected to scroll somehow then they basically have no future or business on the internet as practically everything needs to be scrolled somehow - it comes with the territory. And, this sites purpose is not to cater to or wet-nurse people who can't manage to scroll. And, there is no future in aiming for such people either - not for this site.
• Another claimed motive for this change was the supposed increased visibility that all this would lead to. Which is ridicolous nonsense. It is plain impossible to ignore that the effect has been the very opposite of such claimed intentions. It has thus been explicitly counterproductive in that very regard.
• If this site was actually called "ShogunTotalWar2.Org" or some such - then all this would make some limited sense. However it is "TotalWar.Org" and because of that none of it makes much sense or is very beneficial for this site - or for many people that come here. There are plenty of people who have invested ridiculous amounts of energy, time and effort that obviously have benefited this site in various ways over the years - this beyond the staff - AND it is not all done in the name of STW2 (or the latest TW-game). There are other games in TW, and there are other people here that is interested in them and who frankly don't give a rats ass about STW2 (more or less). If that were not so, then the other TW-games would have no posts and discussions anywhere - we all know that this is hardly the case. This goes across the board and it is valid for all TW-games and stuff related to them. I wager that in reality, there are more people - this in 2012 - concerned with TW-stuff not related to STW2 somehow then the other way around. This index-stunt does not reflect nor does it correspond to that, it just ignores it... That is just counterproductive and destructive for this site.

***

So, what to do...?

For starters, realize that there is a point when cutting sections and sub-sections does not create clarity and advantages but confusion and drawbacks - when that happens it becomes counterproductive and just stupid to do it. We are well beyond that point here. Thus, if change of index is a must - we are left no choice but go back and have more sections again somehow. There is no way around that if we look at these things rationally and what is good for this site.

The purpose of the main index is to serve - ALL the people that come here. To bring clarity on what is covered here and an overview on what is happening on this site and the boards. ALL sections. The purpose of it is to help us find and locate the stuff that interest us - not to work against us by hiding and shutting down things that can be reasonably expected to be regarded as interesting on general terms somehow (ex. hosted mods, modding etc.). Thus we have no choice but to have more sections again, it is the only way to achieve this.

Now, the only way to do this - and actually get a functional and relatively non-controversial result long term - which is desirable - is to do this seriously and sensibility. That means that we must be fair and reasonable when building up the forum index again. This means that each TW-game get their own index section. Each game, get some visibility and detail on the index (last posts show up on index etc.). Mods, modders and modding get it as well and this within respective relevant sections. I thus think three index sub-sections ("regular section", "hosted mods", "modding and development" - and I suggest in that very order) as per index section is the absolute minimum before clarity, order and fairness begin to collapse into arbitrary and senseless nonsense. I fail to see how there are other (serious) ways to achieve it.

We should indeed standardize, apply self-explanatory naming-conventions on all sub-forums, of which there should be plenty in each index sub-section as to bring some order and clarity for each game and what concerns it somehow. The borders between TW-games should be properly maintained in all regards - this also includes tech-help which is clearly specific for each TW-game - different engine, different problems and all that. So a sub-forum assigned to each game for that is an obvious and sensible solution to that problem.

As for the in increased length of the index as a direct result - it can't be helped as it simply is impossible have a serious and reasonable index that does not need to be scrolled somehow – that is just how things are. That goal is impossible to achieve - and - still have a serious treatment of all TW-games. Period. The only thing that I can think of to combat that circumstance is that we somehow create a "forum index-map" with links/gateways to each index section (not index-subsections) and put that/it as a sub-forum at the top - this under the welcome/new members-index section that the Org traditionally has. That way all new members can easily find it and locate the stuff and sections they might be interested in - and - this without much scrolling involved (if any). Although, I personally find plain 'ol scrolling easier and less demanding to do....


To be continued in next post.

- A