Step two three, shuffle two three, dance two three : the big phalanx question

[SwordsMaster]

Well, unless "unleash hell" is intended to describe the phalanx losing cohesion and shuffling to its doom.

LOL Never heard that one so far....

[Red Harvest]

I still think the key is to move your phalanx arm as a continuous line past the enemy line as Ulstan suggests This is the only way I've found to get them to behave as a unit/line. I am leaving them in the default guard mode that the German Spear Warband comes in. This keeps them from fracturing as soon as enemy units rout. I do change orders when they actually engage to get them to match up better and I'll pull them out of phalanx sometimes to reface once they rout the guy in front of them.

As barocca mentioned, I use 4 rank depth to give width to the 121 man German phalanx. The 80 man phalanx units are too small. I don't know what CA was thinking, but they don't work well at that unit size. If you could "weld" the phalanx units it would be different although they would still suffer inordinately from the loss of individual soldiers.

Kraxis doubts the historical shuffle to the right when engaged. I'm sitting on the fence, since I liked his arguments, but I've seen a lot that says otherwise. (Plus I think the position of the spear and placement of the feet would tend to produce some "pull" in combat.) I will say this regardless of the historical accuracy, with the multitude of problems phalanx units face in RTW, the shuffle is a "bridge too far" and should be removed.

I'm going to have to watch more to see what I'm doing...I'm having very good luck with them vs. the Gauls, Dacians, and Britons...but I'm allied with Rome so I'm not facing heavyweights. I swore off infantry as Carthage after finding the phalanx units unusable on vh/vh, but I lacked the availability of cav as Germania early on...and large phalanx units readily available as Germania.

One thing is certain. Phalanx armies need cav, else the army you just whipped will escape off the map to fight you again next turn. When I'm down to scraps of two cav units in each army as Germania, I feel this deficiency in the worst possible way. I'm about three turns from Gaul, Briton, and Dacia running out of money to pump out full stacks every turn (been watching their finances as they gang up on me...oh, there will be a RECKONING!)

[barocca]

Here are my recommendations for using the phalanx capable units for greece, macedon and selucid as they appear in the game,

Phalanx units are not fast moving, they wont blitz through the enemy line in a heart beat (they are heavy troops, not shock cavalry),
But they will decimate most anything that gets in their way.

Phalanx Troops were a Steam Roller, they did punch through enemy lines, but they did not do it quickly.


To Get the Most out of Phalanx Units
------------------------------------

Turn Guard Mode off,
Phalanx units will never persue routing troops very far at all anyway, even in aggressive mode. IF you want them to persue a routing unit take them out of phalanx and order them to chase.

Keep your phalanx units in a cohesive line (open field battles)

If you take a unit out of phalanx to move/redeploy quickly, Then give them a few seconds to reform before attacking

Pick your targets and double-click

Protect the flanks
Protect the End of the line with cavalry and heavy infantry
Protect any Gaps that may appear between Phalanx units with nimble troops, they need to be able to move quickly to guard the flanks of your Phalanx,
You dont need to try to engage anything, just stand in the gap so nothing can get at the flanks.

IF Your army leader is in a Phalanx unit be very carefull, watch where The Actual Leader Figure is standing and try to keep him out of a Phalanx/Phalanx confrontation
- he only has a sword,
- he will try to charge the wall of spears,
- he will wind up poisoning the carrion birds...

Avoid Terrain Obstacles where possible, they will disrupt formation and disrupt cohesion of a line of phalanx units.
IF you must pass through a terrain obstacle pre-order your line to stop immediately after the obstacle to allow your line to remain "solid".

I pin the enemy main line with my Phalanx units, knowing they will hold long enough for me to go round the flanks and deal with skirmishers and missile troops, then to fall uon the rear of the units the phalanx troops have pinned.

I also use Phalanx units in City Assaults,
I make 3 breaches in the wall, I time them so the first breach is the gate and make one additional breach EACH side of the gate some 15 to 30 seconds later.
I push a Phalanx into the Gate to attract and pin enemy troops, then push something else through the breaches to either side and sandwich the units pinned by my Phalanx.
Then I use my Phalanx units to guard the gate area, and everything else moves into the city.


How to deal with an enemy Phalanx.
Simple, use a reasonable defensive unit as a "pin" on guard mode to engage the Phalanx, and hit the Phalanx from the sides and rear with cavalry.

_________________________________________________________________
What can go wrong

If you leave Guard Mode On for Greece, Macedon and Selucids the Phalanx units become dancing fools.
You can enhance and prolong dancing fool mode by clicking behind the enemy line rather than a direct attack on a unit.

PLEASE NOTE results Cannot be guaranteed if you have installed ANY mods that you yourself did not make, You have NO guarantee what the mod-maker may have tweaked and forgotten to mention.
and if YOU made a mod make sure you did not tweak or alter ANY units.

[Doug-Thompson]

[Edited note: barocca's post and mine "passed in the ether." This reply is not a reply to barocca's.]

As barocca mentioned, I use 4 rank depth to give width to the 121 man German phalanx.

... The 80 man phalanx units are too small. I don't know what CA was thinking, but they don't work well at that unit size. If you could "weld" the phalanx units it would be different although they would still suffer inordinately from the loss of individual soldiers.

Well, if you infantry pros would tolerate some guesses from an enemy (cavalry) player ...

Having a formation only two ranks deep seems to relieve the deadly "friendly fire" problem quite a bit when a friendly missile unit is behind you. I think (guess?) that the 80-man phalanx units are meant to work in very close conjunction with missile units.

Although a triarii is not a phalanx unit, I tried some experiments tonight with the triarii and hastati (sp?). There is no triarii rank bonus. However, there is quite a charge bonus. Stretching the triarii into a thin, 2-rank line put the maximum number of spear points on the front line, maximizing that charge bonus. The hastati were behind the spears and threw their javelins over the heads of the triarii without killing their friends in front. After a couple of throws, the hastati charged and finished off the Carthaginian Long-Shields unit.

The cavalry fought to the end, losing their general just before the whole unit was destroyed, leaving two routing survivors. The infantry had no height advantage. The test was run a couple of times on grassy flatlands, with the AI obligingly charging right in. I still had only 20 triarii and 55 hastati left, but destroyed a very good cavalry unit.

I suspect that a long, thin phalanx (which I admit is an oxymoron) backed by slingers or archers would be very deadly.

=============

As for big phalanx units, it seems that phalanx combat is not very satisfying but it is effective. A phalanx unit four ranks deep cuts down hastati, leaving three survivors and losing only eight men. It took time, however -- which was interesting, considering all the complaints the forum has had about kill rates.

============

I never thought a spear unit would need more micro than horse archers, but it does appear that big phalanx units can be manuevered effectively by keeping one finger between the phalanx and "run" buttons, and switching between the two a lot. The facing buttons help a lot, too.

===========

As for the crushing advance of a charging phalanx and historical accuracy, I'm -- just going to stop now.

[Postino]

i give the phalanxes somewhere to walk to that is behind the enemy, and hope they dont wheel uncharaisterically. i get good odds on doing it right as long as i do it one at a time and nobody ios in a group.

[Arakasi]

The problem is not the rightward drift. The problem is them not engaging the enemy properly. They don't drift right when they manage to lock spears with the enemy, or if they do its not by much. I've had phalanx on phalanx combat before and if they get their spears engaged they basically don't drift. What I find to be the problem is like what many said here. They attack the enemy but really don't attack. Their spears are not touching the enemy and they're not doing any damage. Why this is I don't know. This needs to be looked at by CA.

[Finn]

I havent really worked out how to use the phalanx properly but i have worked out what NOT to do if it is any help..

was playing one of the historical battles where you get 'phants and pha'nxs and i had the brilliant(?) idea of sending my elephants charging lengthwise down the line of enemy phalanxes closely followed by my phalanxes (i have no heavy sword infantry) marching forward into their completely disrupted formations...

Elephant manouver worked perfectly, charged straight down their line sidewise disurpting all their nice neat formations with them all scattered around on the ground, my phalanxes move in to what i hope is a massacre as they kill all the enemy soldiers lying on the ground...

well it was a massacre all right, their disrupted troops all promply get up and are now surrounding my nice neat formation of phalanxes on all sides, my phalanxes promptly shuffled about not knowing where to put its spears (ooh matron!) while all the enemy just stood around them in a nice big mulberry bush circle stabbing inwards.

lets just say its not a tactic i would reccomend...

[frogbeastegg]

Ok, the test is done; here are the results. Forgive me if I keep this very brief; I have way too many things to do.

Flat map, assorted phalanx units with pikes/spears etc. Same as last time, except just Louis and myself.

Guard mode is responsible for the majority of drifting. If guard mode is off, no matter whether the unit is actively attacking or standing so another hits it, drifting will be substantially reduced.

Turning guard mode off does help the unit engage; not only does it reduce the combat dodging drift but it also encourages the unit to get close enough to attack.

With guard mode off telling a unit to walk behind it's target is more successful. Not perfect or the best, but more successful than with guard on.

Single clicking and double clicking: absolutely no noticeable difference between the two. The people still didn’t yell ‘charge’ either, just ‘attack quickly’. Must be a culture voice set thing.

Taking a charge: a unit of Greek cavalry was charged into the front of a unit of Seleucid silver shield pikemen. With guard off the SSP lost roughly 40 men (my number memory is bad, so no exact number. It’s correct, give or take a man or two) and defeated the cav quickly. With guard off they looked as if they performed the same, until you checked the losses – around 60 men. Having guard on was worse. *But* on the guard charge the cav did hit ever so slightly off centre, so this one could use a bit more investigation. This is the only test where I am mildly dubious as to the results. We didn't have enough cav to run it again; we only took 2 units since our tests were not aimed at cav.

If two phalanx units are fighting then it does not matter if you order an attack or not *as long as guard is off*. We found that the results were identical with both phalanxes moving to attack and with one moving to attack, as long as guard was off on both of them. This is handy; it reduces micromanagement as you can turn guard off and let the enemy close while you handle your flanks.

Size definitely does matter; there is no disputing this at all. Pikes will trash anything with a shorter weapon if met head on, even when the enemy phalanx is not shuffling.

With guard mode off I was interested to see my phalanx start forward and attack of their own accord when the enemy phalanx got close enough. It did this in every guard off and standing still test. They begin to attack *roughly* when other infantry units begin their charge.

froggy conclusion: turn guard mode off at all times. If you have to attack yourself a single click is the best way (double click produces the same result but tires your finger out more :p), but if the enemy are coming to you then standing is fine.

Now I shall try to make some headway in my PM/email inboxes.

[barocca]

The problem is not the rightward drift. The problem is them not engaging the enemy properly.
They don't drift right when they manage to lock spears with the enemy, or if they do its not by much. I've had phalanx on phalanx combat before and if they get their spears engaged they basically don't drift.
What I find to be the problem is like what many said here. They attack the enemy but really don't attack. Their spears are not touching the enemy and they're not doing any damage. Why this is I don't know. This needs to be looked at by CA.

this is what i cannot understand,
it does not happen to me at all,
when i tell phlalanx "go kill" it does exactly that,
it goes and it kills.
Mostly it kills quickly, sometimes it kills a little slower, sometimes it shuffles WHILE it kills, but it always kills.

Have you tried following my advice exactly?
Guard Mode OFF, Phalanx Mode ON and Double click the target unit?

MAYBE it is something i am doing instinctively/automatically and have not realised that i need to explain it,

TRY double clicking the target unit when it is about the same distance from your Phalanx THAT, you would order a charge if you were using a Hastati Unit.

and i will try and analyse exactly what i am doing with my Phalanx units...

[andrewt]

When I double click, my units say unleash hell and attack quickly but they just stand there doing nothing. They eventually attack but absolutely not quickly.

I've only used militia hoplites but they seem to switch to their swords too quickly. They get slaughtered after that.

[TheDuck]

this is what i cannot understand,
it does not happen to me at all,
when i tell phlalanx "go kill" it does exactly that,
it goes and it kills.
Mostly it kills quickly, sometimes it kills a little slower, sometimes it shuffles WHILE it kills, but it always kills.

Have you tried following my advice exactly?
Guard Mode OFF, Phalanx Mode ON and Double click the target unit?

MAYBE it is something i am doing instinctively/automatically and have not realised that i need to explain it,

TRY double clicking the target unit when it is about the same distance from your Phalanx THAT, you would order a charge if you were using a Hastati Unit.

and i will try and analyse exactly what i am doing with my Phalanx units...

I fear asking this question, but is there a difference in release level? I'm on 1.1, and I have no problem with phalanx based units. I have to believe the AI is the same for all units of the same type, but you can never tell... I have most experience playing w/ Germans and Egyptians.

[Thrudvang]

As the Germans, my main phalax strategy was making varius U shapes with a few Phalax units. I'd get up within a decent range (out of phalax, charging), then set up the U quickly. Then i'd put screetching women and maybe some cavelery within the U if it was reversed (facing me). The enemy will swarm around the phalax and they'll hold off and fight the enemy. The screetching women will sap morale and will send units routing for a little while, then I just use the cavelery and charge their running backs.

They usually go in singles so it's just a matter of chopping down.

Forward Us are mostly offensive, I leave the phalax open like \_/ and then when the enemy comes in I close it up, if there is alot of guys I have back up Us incase I get surrounded.

[R'as al Ghul]

I can confirm what barocca and Colovion have said.
In my experience there are two "stances" of the phalanx.
Defensive stance:
You have your Phalanx in phalanx mode and guard mode.
This is most immobile and perfect if you're attacked. Your phalanxes work like a wall, everything that charges this wall will be killed. It's good to have your formation deep to repell even cavalry and chariots. Keep in mind that in this mode your phalanx will only kill when charged. Shuffling to the right does occur.
Aggressive stance:
Guard mode off and in phalanx mode:
Your phalanx can move at reasonable speed. When ordered to attack an enemy unit, it will play its "thrusting" animation and will kill. If you had the guard mode on it would only push the opponent away or keep it at bay. You can test this when two phalanxes push against each other and you take yours off guard mode.
I tested this yesterday evening and even my Greec militia hoplites did well against the seleucids scythed chariots. BTW, when two of your phalanxes fight one enemy phalanx, it's most of the time recommended to take one of yours off phalanx mode and attack with the secondary weapon from the rear or flank.

R'as

[jjnip]

I am currently playing Macedonia after a long campaign with Julli and I have found them pretty straight forward. On normal difficulty, normal size units I in most my armies right now have 8-12 Phalanx Pikemen, 2-3 Light Lancers, and Mercs for missle troops. Trying to build a few Archers now to fill out my Armies.

I tried a peace with Greeks, they turned on me so I had to take them out. After that I knew I had to take Brutti out so I took the (2) provinces Brutti had and crossed the small sea with ships to Italy. There I took out (2) Brutti provinces, (1) Scippi Province, then Rome, then finally last (3) Julli cities.

Currently have near (3) full stacks who are spread out and just took (2) Northern Italy Gaul cities and was planning on going North and West and then pure East taking out Dacia and perhaps most of Germania. Then after creating forts to hold Guals in Spain, with Spain and fort for Brittania, fort for Germania was going to go across and South into Greek, Seleucid territory and finally Egypt. Was just playing to get 30-35 territories but could probably easily get 50.

I just line phanlanx units up across in phalanx formation, highlight them all and just right click ahead on the map to close on the enemy. Separately move up Cavalry on flanks, mostly grouped. Separately move up Geneneral unit behind Phalanx, with any missle troops behind the Phalanx units, also moved up separtely. So micromangement, definitely. Often prepare to pull archers, missle troops back and to flank for charging the enemy when they route.

I judge each as different, and micromanage each. When I close, get close enough often the enemy AI would throw a few pila, their missle troops then attack some too. Starting from the right and going left I just highlight a Phalanx unit and right click on the desired enemy infantry unit. Often I have (2) Phalanx units attack one infantry unit, if I especially outnumber the enemy in infantry units. I close, they close, we all start attacking, its nothing really spetacular. My Phalanx is mostly just a "shield". My Cavalry, up till this point +2-3 exp Light Lancers have been enough to flank and attack the enemy in rear and flanks and that accounts for most of the damage. The Cavalry is the "sword".

Usually after the battle, or towards the end I have phalanx units facing all which ways, in, out, toward each other, but mostly its not to big of a issue, they are still in Phalanx formation.They are just all facing different directions because during the course of the battle I will say, "Hey you attack here,'' seeing a opportunity to flank or outnumber the enemy. At this point its best to wait to watch for right moment to send Cavalry, but it is possible to grap unit and attempt to have them "get out of Phalanx formation and have them run to set up a Phalanx flank attack". Just have to be careful and watch out for last minute enemy Cavalry charges into your Phalanxs often turned backs.
Often for reasons really unknown to me some of the leading men, a few of a Phalanx unit will pop out of and into Phalanx formation, and fight with sword, then switch back to Phalanx. It appears to be mainly if they are being flanked or if the enemy has some how managed to deeply invest themselves into one of my Phalanx units.

I managed to conquer all of Italy without appreciating the ability of Phalanx units to run. During one of my last battles against Gaul I was taking a city and was highly irritated at the Phalanx units desire to run into a breach in the wall and quite literally run all the way in before going to where I wanted them to go.

Watching the first Phalanx unit in the breach get slaughtered mostly by the AI, so me trying to be smart would try to send a Phalanx unit "not in Phalanx formation" but running, hugging the wall, hopeing to avoid the conflict waging in the breach so I could position them to attack in a more advantageous position.

The problem was and I dont know how I missed it before was they would run into the battle, to far into the breach and start fighting with sword, and its not what I wanted.

So I tried playing around with "running" then quickly switching to Phalanx once through the breach and that is probably best bet. Whats interesting is after trying this battle over and over to see what was up with these units I came to appreciate their running ability.

They can be ordered to run, and when you press "f" will rather quickly switch to Phalanx formation. So you have (2) options, it appeared to me: 1) have them charge the enemy then go to Phalanx formation and that works, but if they charge the enemy well, then the leading men of the unit will fight with sword, this is not so bad, for you get well invested into their ranks, and many of the units will still pull out Pikes. Also 2) you can quickly if the enemy unit is near full strength just right before contack switch to Phalanx formation and they will do that too.

I mean I would switch to "no Phalanx formation" double right click on a enemy unit, they would run, and then I had option "with a little micromanagement" to make that individual unit switch to "Phalanx formation" rather quickly.

If the enemy units are near route or half strength then it seems maybe ok to let them get invested in the enemy before switching to Phalanx. If the enemy units are strong then switch to Phalanx right before.

Otherwise in normal battle situations I would just march till close to enemy 8-10 Phalanx units across, and then right to left highlight each individual Phalanx unit and right click on a enemy infantry unit. Seems to work, just have to watch their flanks. Helps if you have more infantry units to begin with. In a battle they are just the shield anyway.

What I still wonder about is their relatively high charge value, and how to use it. I didnt and still do not think they can charge in Phalanx formation. I guessed, and still assume, they get charge bonus when they run into the enemy, which might be to help in breaches, and getting invested in enemy ranks when desired with some degree of shock. I have had some success in switching to Phalanx when doing that when the I outnumber the enemy.

They do have power I see afterwards with battle results, often a +3 Phalanx Pikemen will get many kills and suffer hardly no casulties. Like I said I have generally been successful.

Worst case I saw was in the last Gaul Battle I did, which I ran several times, to try to understand how to do breaches, was (2) near full routed German infantry units just tried to run into my Phalanx units for I had them surrounded, and they routed into a Phalanx unit. I never seen so many units just melt.

I have to admit I still don’t feel like I completely understand them and it has caused me quite some frustration and bewilderment that I have been so successful yet feel like I know nothing. Heck I beat Rome factions without even thinking of using run, which actually causes me more displeasure to realize than satisfaction.

As it stands I just highlight my Phalanx units from right to left and right click once on a single enemy unit to attack. They stay in Phalanx formation and attack mostly organized left to right in North South formation until the enemy starts to route or die. I am satisfied with them being a shield and my Calvary the sword I just wish I understood the Phalanx unit better.

[jjnip]

I just checked, Guard mode is on by default. I never really noticed, to change it. That means I have always fought with it on. I never switched it off for my units.

What that means for me on normal diff, normal size units, based on my success I have no idea. They do fight, I have seen it, they do fight organized, in Phalanx formation, they do kill the enemy, I seen it. The fact I have always had it on, I have no idea what that means.

Would they be more effective with it off, I have no idea, they are pretty effective as it is. Lately I just finished off Roman factions, many with +exp.

Now that I think about it, I cant really see a reason for it being on, since I have been mostly attacking. Maybe they would be less likely to engage in sword, and more flexible with their Phalanx formation, but I am grasping. Like I said, sword only seems to occur when heavily invested or flanked with a few units with guard on.

I learned another new thing, lol, after spending 20+ hours playing Macedonia, lol, apparently you can disable Phalanx formation, go to loose, then back to Phalanx and have a loose, wider, Phalanx formation which I am embarassed to admit.

I am kinda under the impression Guard mode reduces attack chance, damage output (something/trade off), but increases defense rating. Pure guess. With Roman Faction I never had guard mode on, unless in certain situations on defensive, never attacking.

Perhaps my Phalanx units would be even more effective with guard mode off. I will have to see.

[Maltz]

Hopefully it is not too late to contribute a few personal experiences after an entire Sunday of struggle. The following suggestions are based on vanilla patch 1.1, VH difficulty and Huge unit size.

A working phalanx, with their spear sticking out, is undestructable against regular, non-phalanx infantry, no matter how sharp their blades, and how naked and chest-hairless your men are. This is because the enemy soldiers can't even get close enough to you to start their attack animation, so there is no chance for your phalanx to get scratched.

Of course, things are not always so ideal, so you will lose a few men due to a "temporarily" disrupted formation. This can happen... of couse when you get flanked or backstabbed. There are some not so obvious circumstances, which you obviously want to avoid:

(1) Enemies' strong charge, head on.

Usually by cavalry, or some infantry that has a fast running speed and charging bonus. A powerful charge will rush into a phalanx formation, and suddenly all the phalanx spearmen decides to abandon their good spears and switch to tiny softy knives that can't touch anything.

Actually, every faction uses some cavalry, so it is very likely that some suicide generals will eventually rush and jump into a phalanx line, thus screwing up your phalanx formation entirely (because they all switch to that f* knife!). That's why people don't like to play phalanx on VH. Because of the +7 attack bonus the enemy has, your formation gets disrupted very often, and so your men all prefer their tiny softy knives. You will end up losing more men than the enemy.

That's also why people complain about Germany spear warband. (or admire, depending on whether you speak German I guess ) These spearmen don't carry a little knife, so they are forced to stick with their spears even if someone rushed into their lines. This disadvantage actually makes them THE MOST USEFUL phalanx in the RTW world, because they always maintain their phalanx formation. Keeping their spears maintain their bonus against charged-in cavalries, holding the majority of them at a distance. At the same time, the rear guys get rid of the disruptors quickly and resume the great spear wall. If you are frustrated with regular phalanx and want to see what kind of damage they are supposed to deliver, definitely give these spear warbands a try. If you don't laugh in your sleep, I guarantee you still laugh in front of your monitor.

So for regular phalanx that does carry a little knife, there is no way to avoid enemy cavalry charging into your line and distrupt your formation. All you can do is make sure your better phalanx are used against these charges, and make your poorer phalanx against poorer infantry.

The other source of disruption is, shamefully:

(2) Our own fault.

Phalanx requires a few extra care to manuever. I have failed it so many times that I learned a few tips:

2a. Don't order a phalanx to attack an enemy. Just tell them to walk to a distant line behind the enemy line.

Most of the time they will deform their lines when hearing the attack command, and some stupid soldiers will go ahead, while others dropped behind. Even worse is the "double right click" charge. You don't need the charge attack bonus at all - because the enemy can't touch you when you have your phalanx formation intact.

You can group your phalanx, so you can order the entire line walk together at the same time.

2b. Order your soldiers to stop walking when other units are engaged.

This way you keep your entire wall as one single line. The AI is sometimes smart enough to detect a gap in your wall, and assign some units to flank from there.

Don't worry about the engaged unit, as long as they keep the formation, they are safe. If their formation is gone and you can see close-distance combat, they will be dead before your other phalanx turns 90 degrees trying to flank.

2c. Order your soldiers to stop and continue walking when the engaged unit rout.

You don't want to chase the routers because you can't catch them, and you don't want your line disrupted when there are other non-routing enemy units nearby. The AI will sense where weakness is, and preferably attack the non-functioning phalanx.

Guard mode doesn't help at all. One time I had my phalanx on guard mode, and after routing the enemy, they gladly decided to rotate 180 degrees to show their arses to the 2nd wave of charge.

When I stick to these 3 simple rules my Germania spearwarband are simply invincible on the battlefield. Never did I see any unit like this in VH. Well, difficulty doesn't really matter because they enemy has no chance to start swinging!

Note: A thing line of phalanx work very well. 3 ranks is all you need against regular infantry. They also extend your wall longer so the enemy is less likely to get any chance to flank you. While against cavalry you will need more ranks. Or you don't need more ranks, because all your men will use knives even if it is 100 ranks!

[ah_dut]

In phalanx battle, head on; you'll find that levy pikes can actually win, due to longer spears. They can also beat Spartans somehow as well...

[Warspite]

As I understand it, the tendency to drift to the right was inherent to the phalanx, as some men involved attempted to squeeze themselves further under the protection of the shield of the man to the right of them, which resulted in the man to his left having to move right to stay under the original man's shield, and hence a chain reaction on down the line. As a result, the entire formation would often shift to the right (I know the phenomenon was touched on in the course of either Stephen Pressfield's "Gates of Fire" or "Tides of War"--unfortunately, I don't recall which right off hand).

This wasn't a good quality, however, and the tendency was drilled out of more experienced and disciplined troops. Has anybody tested to see if there's a correlation between the amount of right-shifting and the level of unit experience? If green troops shift to the right a great deal while seasoned troops are far more stable, this might actually be a rather clever depiction of a very real quirk inherent to the phalanx.

--Warspite

[Woreczko]

Hi

I have a question for you, phalanx experts :)
Did you try to experiment with short_spear hoplites (The ones, with only 2 ranks fighting)? I` ve just discovered this attribute and thought, that it could represent classical hoplites a bit better, as they did not have especially long spears (~2m IIRC).