Becoming A Protectorate

[TinCow]

I have seen plenty of posts about getting other factions to be your protectorate, but I haven't seen much about becoming one yourself. Last night in my VH/VH Dacia game I was at war with both Gaul and Germania at the same time. I was frantic because I only had one army capable of defeating large enemy stacks and I couldn't defend both borders at once. The situation was looking grim, with one of my cities recently lost to Germany, with another beseiged by Germany and yet a third beseiged by Gaul. I sent a diplomat to try and negotiate a peace with the Gauls, hoping for even a turn or two before they attacked again to allow me to defeat Germany and transfer my army back west. Surprisingly, the Gauls offered me over 2000 dinarii tribute for 5 turns on the condition that I become a protectorate. I sat back and thought for a while... and finally accepted. I am now Gaul's 'ally' with trade rights and military access for both of us on both our lands. I can easily afford to pump out a couple more armies now and I am certain I can push Germany back. Eventually I will break the Protectorate and pursue Gaul some more.

So... what penalties am I suffering from being Gaul's protectorate? Other than them having military access to my lands, I can't see ANYTHING bad about this situation. What am I missing?

[Siris]

No clue bro. But the question is how do you get a powerful faction to ally you & fight your war for you. I'm thinking I need Germaina & the Gauls to help hurt the Romans in the North to lighten up the War in my Home land, which I'm slowly loseing.

I've lost around 5,000+ men to around 25,000+ Romans in my Spartan lands, and their still pushing us back, crazyiness!

[aw89]

why do you keep saying "us"? are you gullom or something?

[R'as al Ghul]

Are you getting any denari from them?
Like making another faction become your protectorate totally bankrupts you? (at least until fixed by a patch)
It would be interesting to see what happens when you or your ally makes a new enemy/ ally. Does it automatically influence your diplomatic stance?

R'as

[Bob the Insane]

When a faction becomes a Protectorate of yours their lands are supposed to count as yours for victory purposes so I am lead to believe (or at least that is how it is supposed to work)... So I would assume that the players faction becoming the Protectorate of another faction is basically losing the game...

[TinCow]

I'm not at home so I can't check, but I *think* my income from diplomacy the turn afterwards was 3100 (or something close to that). However, I know that about 2500 of that was from the Gauls via tribute and I am pretty sure the rest is Armenian tribute (map trade). There was definitely no large sum deposited into my treasury right afterwards... as far as I can tell, no financial benefits except for the tribute and the trade rights.

When a faction becomes a Protectorate of yours their lands are supposed to count as yours for victory purposes so I am lead to believe (or at least that is how it is supposed to work)... So I would assume that the players faction becoming the Protectorate of another faction is basically losing the game...

Definitely didn't lose the game. I'm still playing without any problems. Even with my territories, Gaul is a LONG way away from controlling 50 provinces so that's not much of a concern for me.

[Bob the Insane]

Yeah, I just noticed I did not read the first post correctly....

Remeber that Protectorates are at the moment apparantly a "little broken" to quote one CA dev who posts here and this might apply to becoming a protectorate yourself...

Which I did not think was possible!!!!

[TinCow]

Which I did not think was possible!!!!

I was very hesitant about it when I saw it offered. I actually tabbed out and searched the forums for any insight into this, but none came up. In the end, I decided I didn't have a whole lot to lose so I accepted, as much out of curiosity as anything else.

Interestingly, they didn't offer me the protectorate when I asked for a ceasefire. They only offered it when I tried to sell them my map. They then countered with Give us Map, Protectorate and we give you tribute.

[Quillan]

I've seen a screenshot where Egypt offered the Seleucids the opportunity to become an Egyptian protectorate (the player was running the Seleucids). Apparantly CA slipped another joke into the game there, because the Pharaoh's message was "All your base are belong to us".

[Bob the Insane]

They only offered it when I tried to sell them my map. They then countered with Give us Map, Protectorate and we give you tribute.

That sounds well broken....

I will have to try offering the AI a tribute to become a protectorate and see if that works....

[sunsmountain]

No you are not allowed to attack Gaul like you are planning to. If an ally of Gaul attacks one of your allies, then you are allowed to break the Protectorate.

You shouldn't be able to attack Gaul armies, therefore.

But i wouldn't be surprised if you could. The diplomacy system isn't watertight or very serious in casus belli or diplomacy effects. One should have a diplomacy rating or standing that drops or rises according to actions done in the past, with a normalizing effect over time. Ah i'm dreaming, who am i kidding?

[TinCow]

No you are not allowed to attack Gaul like you are planning to. If an ally of Gaul attacks one of your allies, then you are allowed to break the Protectorate.

You shouldn't be able to attack Gaul armies, therefore.

But i wouldn't be surprised if you could. The diplomacy system isn't watertight or very serious in casus belli or diplomacy effects. One should have a diplomacy rating or standing that drops or rises according to actions done in the past, with a normalizing effect over time. Ah i'm dreaming, who am i kidding?

I have had an ally attack me without breaking the alliance before... it was actually Germany in this very game and brought about the need to attempt the ceasefire with the Gauls. If it is possible to break an alliance, shouldn't it be possible to break a protectorate?

[nokhor]

i hope its a feature and not because being a protectorate is broken. i think it'd be a great feature if the player can become a protectorate. as long as there were severe restrictions on getting out of being a protectorate.

[soibean]

if a Protectorate is as minor as that, then why are all countries against being it?
I was assigned a mission by the senate to have the Carthaginians become a protectorate for me. They only had 2 provinces, these being Palma and Corduba, and I had destroyed all others. Seeing as how things played out I assumed they would be more than eager to accept this and have me stop killing them off every turn... but no! they're freedom is worth more than being my servant or some such... right

[Nestor]

In a similar situation, playing as Spain, I became a protectorate of Gaul.

I did receive money from the Gauls every 2-3 turns for the next 10-20 turns. I suppose they stopped when they didn't have anything else to give.

Didn't check if I could attack them though! (I'll try to check later today)

The game became far too easy to continue. I was sharing borders only with Gaul and they wouldn't attack. Only the Julii kept trying but not with much power!

At first, I was enjoying it as long as the computer was using the protectorate bug to help me contrary to any logic!

From what I saw the AI cannot respond to the bug: The Gauls were constantly trying to get ceasefires with everybody! Probably they didn't have enough money to raise armies.

Another thing: when playing as a roman faction you can see what they can see on the campaign map. Didn't happen as a protectorate although in the diplomacy screen the status is exactly the same: alliance, military access for both, trade rights.

I suppose CA had something in mind when introducing the idea of protectorates but with the bug I cannot even imagine it

All I see is things that shouldn't happen. They say its broken but I couldn't find any info about what it was supposed to do .

PLEASE, SOMEONE FIX IT!!!
(In the meantime could someone from CA explain its true purpose in the game without the bug? Please?)

[Maltz]

I just became a protectorate of Egypt as Numidia for about 3 turns.

It was very early in the VH/VH campaign and I just occupied the Egyptian city of Thebe with whatever I had in Siwa (sorry maybe spell city names wrong). I then tried to sell my map for 3k, but the Egyptian captain thought he could bring back a big favor for his country. So he asked:

- Map info.
- Give me 7000+
- Become protectorate

I was going to agree since I was in such a tight finance that I cannot even afford to train peasants. Yet I still countered with the same condition with 12000 instead. The Egyptian captain gladly agreed only to be bribed immediately and returned home.

While becoming a protectorate I gained mutual military access plus an alliance with Egypt.

I didn't receive any bugged money over the entire period (of about 3 turns). I COULD attack Egypt.

After bribing all the smaller captains nearby I used my diplomat to declare the "cancellation of alliance" and continued my expansion. I then took the city with the big lighthouse. It looked like I could directly attack the "ally" but I suspected doing this would lower my international reputation (oh well )

This protectorate was mean!



I do notice something strange that I cannot ally with the Romans when I first meet them. However, I could ally with the Greeks. I don't remember whether I allied with the Greeks before becoming a protectorate or after. However, even after dumping Pharaoh I still couldn't ally with the Roman.

[TinCow]

It seems Protectorate doesn't have anything to do with protection. I am STILL at war with the Germans... maybe a good 20-30 turns after the deal with Gaul (which still stands). I finally broke their back last night and took two provinces with a massive army of upgraded Chosen Swordsmen and Chosen Archers. However, just as I was ready to exploit my breakthrough and make massive gains, the Brutii attacked me, causing war with all Roman factions. Once again I find myself in a two-front war without sufficient troops to fight both at once. Not once this entire time has Gaul gone to war with Germany or any Roman faction. Shouldn't a protectorate REQUIRE the patron faction to protect the subserviant one?

[Bob the Insane]

I do notice something strange that I cannot ally with the Romans when I first meet them. However, I could ally with the Greeks. I don't remember whether I allied with the Greeks before becoming a protectorate or after. However, even after dumping Pharaoh I still couldn't ally with the Roman.

I have seen this too and it can be odd... I suspect (as you do) that it has something to do with the chain of allies (e.g. Your ally is at war with their ally so the two of you can not ally)...

[Maltz]

Indeed, Bob, it might be that the Greeks are currently at war with the Romans.

However, in some past campaigns, I could ally with 2 countries that are at war, and once I do that, the 2 enemy clans will automatically reach a ceasefire. (such as Germania & Brits). Some other experiences told me that I cannot ally with a faction for some reason I don't understand. I used to think they are some bugs in the program...

But at least we now know "becoming a protectorate" is such a great thing even without the buggy "tribute".

[Szun]

well sometimes you just need a 7+ influance diplomat to do the job.

I wanted to bribe a rebel army with a 1 influ diplo and didnt even get the *bribe* option..then I sent a 5 influ and it worked.
Same is with other nations the higher the rating the more likely the planed outcome.

[TinCow]

More Protectorate fun in the very same game, so I thought I would post it in here to round out the info.

So, my war against the Germans proceeded well. There was a massive battle between two of their large stacks and my single offensive stack. I won, but with 2/3 casualties and a tenuous hold on the ability to continue the attack. My finances were/are heavily in the red and I only get income by looting and diplomacy since my very poor provinces cannot sustain two stacks of decent troops. Then to my severe displease, the Brutii beseige one of my cities, plunging me into war with all the Roman factions. This tanks my finances even more and I simply don't have the ability to fight both fronts... doom is at hand.

I send a diplomat to try and negotiate peace with the Brutii, but they will have none of it. In order to try and finance a new army, I try and sell them my map anyway... let them fund their own enemy. When I offer to sell for 25,000 dinarii, they counter with a smaller tribute and a Protectorate demand. I know I can't fight both the Romans and Germans at once, so I push it back to 25,000 single payment (in case we go right back to war) and accept the Protectorate. As a result of this, ALL the Roman factions automatically make peace with me without having to do anything. The little scrolls with the ceasefire info just drop down the left side as usual. My Protectorate with Gaul is now broken and I am back at Neutral relations with them.

Interestingly, I am ranked as one of the strongest factions. I am near the top in provinces and I am the 'strongest' faction for whatever that means. If my provinces now are 'counted' towards Brutii's total, he should be nearing the 25-30 mark... which is where the Senate starts getting uncomfortable with you if you play as Rome. Could it be that I might end up starting the Roman Civil War amongst the AI by being one of their protectorates? Could I end up allied with the Brutii agains the Julii, Scipii and Senate?

[Maltz]

I used to sell maps to start the game. On VH setting I get about 3k each time, while last time I received 12k for map + becoming a protectorate.

I just had an idea that perhaps we can "sell protectorate status" too? We can sell the protectorate status multiple times to different factions. In no time we can become very rich...

[Jambo]

This is very interesting. I've never thought of becoming a protectorate before in RTW, and it seems that by doing so, you're offered a whole heap of advantages including a large financial boost.

I'd always been under the impression that by becoming a protectorate of another faction you would have to give tributes to the faction every so often?! From the posts above there doesn't seem to be any disadvantage to becoming a protectorate other than maybe allowing the bigger faction to get closer to their winning goals...

Strange.

[Orda Khan]

There is no disadvantage in becoming a protectorate, in fact it's quite the opposite. I became a protectorate of Thrace. They became my ally and then attacked me the next turn ( I still think diplomacy in this game is flawed ) Each turn they attacked, each turn I crushed them but it was a drag and obviously my army was being whittled away. I sued for peace by means of a ceasefire, no money offered, just a ceasefire. They flat refused so I then decided to demand tribute. At this they offered payment for 5 turns if I became a protectorate. I never refuse free cash and had nothing to fear from their pathetic armies so I accepted.
I gratefully accepted their cash and built my armies very nicely with this added wealth. On receipt of their final payment I marched on their territories and annihilated the population of each city I burned to the ground. Within a few turns I had become the wealthiest faction with the largest armies.

I am quite sure things should not happen like this should they?

......Orda