How fast is it possible to blitz the game?

[Jambo]

I think what you just outlined is nigh impossible in 20 turns (10 years)...

[*Ringo*]

I'm with the general consensus here, pretty much impossible. Assuming you start with say 4 provinces, you would need to capture about two and a half regions a turn. Considering low populations, money and poor units you'd be hard pushed to produce enough units to garrison provinces alone!

*Ringo*

[zhuge]

Ok, ok, perhaps I was a bit hasty putting the time limit at 20 turns. Still it wouldn't be called a blitz if one were to take one's time in completing the campaign. You needn't choose a faction that starts with few provinces and isn't completely fiscally sound initially. Some factions such as the Greeks start with 5 provinces, have a solid economy to boot and can potentially expand on more than 1 front, so it is possible to take multiple towns in 1 turn. Admittedly you will be spreading yourself rather thin and that's risky but well that's the challenge.

Remember that you get instant cash for each town you take and an extra source of income so once you can take a few early towns, cash flow should stabilize. As for garrisoning these new provinces adequately, you may need to babysit the town for 1 turn but once you get a couple of peasant units, public order should be tolerable. I've had towns with no garrison (-15% public order) but with a low tax rate, sometimes you can still get by. Any province you take counts to the target of 50 provinces so you need not necessarily take highly populated provinces (despite the fact that they have very good income) if you think that they are too well guarded and hard to garrison (when you've taken them).

Also I'm not saying I could do it and freely admit I probably couldn't. But even though I've played S:TW and M:TW before, my battle skills and experience are probably considerably inferior to some of the really hardened vets around here.

I didn't say that you had to search blindly for town locations for provinces with no roads. I expect those who attempt the challenge to have completed the long campaign at least once and are therefore roughly familiar with town locations and will therefore zero in on the town upon entering the province.

Lastly I'm sure you will not have failed to notice that I did not put some of the more demanding house rules like no pause and general's camera only. I don't or I rarely use them but some of the more skilled players (especially the MP ones) appear quite comfortable with it.

So all things considered, I'll revise the goal as:
To complete the long campaign in 30 turns or less (I did ask for opinions regarding the time limit since I wasn't too sure anyhow).
That's quite a difference actually. Uhm... ok... any takers?

[Maltz]

I just finished a Vh/Vh Scythia long campaign on 253BC or so, so that's ~35 turns.
But I love bribing

I don't see why not to hire mercenaries or bribe, sell maps and so on. If you want to finish a campaign as soon as possible, then you can do whatever you want to accomplish that goal. It is a fair game, still, if everybody can do whatever he wants. As long as you don't type a cheat code or mod the game to become your favor, we are also playing under the same restrains. If you are so good that you found a lot of ways to exploit the AI to finish a campaign in 20 turns, you are an evil genius.

[Empedocles]

I ended a brutii campaing VH/H in 207BC without bribing armies, trying to take care of senate missions, and not hiring lots of merc. I defeated, dacia, pontus, greeks, macedonia and egypt. I was happy for the fast success I achieved and I believe I could have been faster.
But I was lucky to have Marius reform around 260 bc.

Diego, from Argentina

[zhuge]

I need your help, the help of the community members here. I'm about halfway through the Greek campaign and have gotten them off the blocks so to speak, but will have very little time to play for the next 1 or 2 weeks. Having that in mind I thought why not let other players have a go at it. They might make even better progress.

Zipped save is here:
http://www.sharemation.com/zhuge/Gre...0turn%2012.zip

So anyway, the details are:
Middle of turn 12 and have 30 towns in all but haven't conquered Rome, good economics but still rather lacking in troops for certain armies.

Turns and towns taken:
0 Syracuse, Thermon, Sparta, Pergamum, Rhodes
1 -
2 Apollonia, Kydonia, Nicomedia
3 -
4 Messana, Corinth, Sardis
5 Larissa, Athens, Ancyra
6 Thessalonica
7 Bylazora, Lilybaeum
8 -
9 Salona, Masaka, Tarentum, Tylis
10 Carthage
11 Tarsus, Sinope, Croton, Capua
12 Cyrene, Byzantium, Thapsus, Antioch

Did the last fight a bit hastily and lost a few more troops than I should have and Rome looks real tough. Maybe it might be a good idea to not fight Rome right away even though we're close. We could always return later when we have more troops.

You can carrying on playing in whatever way you like but it would be nice if those continuing the game could stick to the rules I've outlined previously for consistency and try to complete it in 30 turns (in 20 if possible). Hope to have some volunteers.

[Razor1952]

Its a bit pointless unless you have standardized rules, but just allowing bribery makes it all too easy.I've only completed 2 campaigns, as Julii M/M in 238bc before I knew the rules, and 249 as the Greeks on M/M.

Now as Selucs on VH/M having too much fun to worry , just letting things roll a bit and looking for tight victories. Still tight victories are hard to come by, usually things go very badly for the ai --like casualties of 20-100:1 for the poor ai.(once they lost >900 to only 3 losses).

Boy that patch has a lot of work to do.

I reckon using the map info exploit alone( where you get tribute for 100's of turns) would allow perhaps a victory in 20-30 turns, imagine Egypt giving 20k for 200 turns!...poor Egypt.

[Shottie]

Nope, I think its still impossible.

[zhuge]

Got bored and decided to finish off the job. Here's the final screen at turn 18:
http://img83.exs.cx/img83/2711/262bcgreekvictory5xc.jpg

16 Halicarnassus, Campus Iazyges, Aquincum, Chersonesos, Patavium, Cirta
17 Salona, Damascus
18 Segesta, Campus Scythii, Lovosice

Thought there might be a few interested players replaying some of the more memorable battles, so I've selected 3 and put their saved files up.

1)Dionysos Vs Carthage, near Lilybaeum
http://www.sharemation.com/zhuge/DionysosCarthage.zip
I consider myself lucky to come out of this battle alive. Managed to isolate their forces a little and got the first enemy general to charge into the Hoplite phalanx while they were chasing my general. Halfway through, I managed to rout the elephants with flaming arrows but couldn't follow through. When they rallied and returned along with reinforcements and the 2nd enemy general, it was dying time for my troops. Lost about 2/3rds of the Hoplites, but somehow got the elephants to rout again and finished the job for good.

2)Antigonos Vs Thrace, near Thrace
http://www.sharemation.com/zhuge/AntigonosThrace.zip
Click end turn and the large captain led Thracian army will hit from the rear, with forces from Thrace as reinforcements. Another battle that is crucial to get rid of the first force ASAP before dealing with the second. Baited the Thracian generals into range of the Cretan Archers and ran my general in circles to give enough time to do damage. Finished off the job with Militia Hoplites holding the line and the rest charging in from the flanks.
Originally, I just wanted to decimate the first force before withdrawing but the Cretan Archers did so much damage to the main enemy force from a small hill slope that the more I played on, the more I was convinced that I had a small chance. Used up all ammo for all units and ended up with everyone exhausted but managed to rout the Thracians probably partly due to their poor morale.

3)Kleomenes Vs Brutii, near Croton
http://www.sharemation.com/zhuge/KleomenesBrutii.zip
This wasn't too tough a battle but it was certainly fun and considerably larger scale than the first two. As usual, placed my Hoplite line far away and baited the enemy generals from the first force with my own general and Militia Cavalry. Next came their Hastati and the Peltasts were sent to work, with cavalry clearing up sufficiently weakened units. Rushed the remaining Velites with cavalry and repeated the same for the second much smaller force of reinforcements.

Basically, with the Greeks, so long as you can lure the opposing general to commit suicide on your phalanx, you will usually have the battle half won. Whittle down the enemy with Peltasts, hit from the rear/flanks with your general followed by cavalry and let Militia Cavalry do the rout chasing. At the risk of being repetitive, I must once again stress that archers and slingers, especially uber ones like Cretans and Rhodians are too powerful in the game and desperately need to be toned down to preserve game balance.

[Maltz]

This is a great achievement.

After trying Germania spear warband I finally had some courage with Greek phalanx tonight. I fired a Vh/Vh, patch 1.1 vanilla with huge unit size. 3 turn past, and I took 7 more regions.

The battles on Sicily, against Scipii and Carthage are great phalanx classics. I put my line into the following formation:

====== ====== ======
--------- ---------

The better hoplites stand at front, 3 ranks, and the poorer militia hoplites are close backups, 2 ranks. This way, when the enemy disrupt my formation at front and my men switched into daggers, their charged will be stopped and had to face spears of militia hoplites.

With this formation I Slaughtered the Scipii in turn 1, and on turn 2 killed almost every single Carthage unit on Sicily. The 2nd battle I had such a disadvantage so I decided to shameless camp at the corner. Even the elephants are slaughtered by this formation!

I also took a different approach than Zhuge. The starting army on Rhode - I sent them to Asia minor. So 2 forces on Asian minor will go both north and south. I didn't realize this until I check back this thread.

The sieges are just taking too long that I had a few save/loads on Corinth - all I got was 22 minutes. This was definitely not enough for a stone wall assault with phalanx... so I cheated again by taking the timer off. With timer off it is very easy to manipulate the AI, though.

[zhuge]

Hah, I knew it was possible to do better, 7 more cities by turn 3 is incredible. I guess you'll be finishing in 10 turns instead of 10 years.
I never really tried that thin line concept nor that camping in the corner idea to reduce being flanked and usually felt my Hoplites definitely had room for improvement (well I guess I have the improvement right in front of me).

Regarding Corinth, I didn't dare touch it on turn 1 as the garrison had a unit of Archers in addition to 2 Militia Hoplite units and a general and everyone knows archers + stone walls = big time casualties when you are in a straight rush to beat the time limit.
So I had Kleomenes take Kydonia first which wasn't really easy either and in fact cost me a number of Spartans. When I returned to the mainland on turn 3, the Archers and 1 Militia Hoplite unit had left the Corinth to take Athens(?) or travel to Larissa. So I guess you could say I got lucky.
Without Archers, Corinth can be taken without too much trouble. You just need to select the best place to put the siege tower and then rush in with all speed. They'll probably place the Mil.Hops on the wall but Spartans can take out Mil.Hops without problems even on VH so it might be tight but it's doable.

Maybe I should try Spain next. Crap infantry, crap cavalry, no archers and doesn't have a booming econ like the Greeks. Sounds like a bummer already.