Your most... painful Defeat

[Psiloi]

Always talking about our great armies, our great victories... A play without good defeats can't be a good play.

Norway, later XIV century: After defeat and kill to the danish king in Denmark, my army of 8 Varangian Guards, 4 Katafractoi, 2 Trebizonds Archers and 2 Steppe Cavalry leader by a general of four stars conquer Sweden and invade Norway. There, the rebels have a strong army of 1500 men of vikings, FMAA, spearmen, Knights, peasants and Halberdiers and a general of three stars. There is a mountain with forest where the enemy wait me, to the right the mountain haven't forest; that is my chance, quickly my army win the part of the mountain without trees and without opposition. More or less, the enemy is divided in two, the knights (the general is a knight) and the halbediers in the upper side of the mountain, the vikings and peasants in the downside, these last group must go up the moutain, don't worry because when they will try i can launch three varangian guards against their. The other VG and the KTs go to the knights and the halberdiers, this launch a charge and the battle begin in the border between the grass and the forest, not very far where i have the rear of VG, my troops have the upper hand; in the plain to the left of the mountain, appear two units of FMAA.

Before the enemy swordsmen go across the forest for fight in the main battle, i charge with my steppe cavalry against the FMAA: they crushed to the enemy without problem. Ummm, where the vikings? The VG's rear!! The vikings and the peasants fight with the three units of the middle, i forget charge and now they have problems, more than five units of vikings are killing to my units. The steppe cavalry turn back quickly and i try to take one KTs for a flank attack. New problem, the two enemy groups of armies are now closed and the enemy general is mixed with other troops, i can't kill him. Right, the three VGs and the KTs with the help of the SC defeat to the vikings, but there are few survivors and my army is weakened. My cavalry is tired and i can't pursue to the enemy, quickly this enemy stop of running and reorganize the formation, the enemy reinforcement come to the forest.

With less than a half of my army, i hope the attack of the enemy, but this don't begin. I must attack, because the time is run, finally launch my VGs against the enemy in the forest, again i have the upperhand, the KTs must attack by the flank in the forest, is very dangerous but it is needed. The Trebs archers after shoot all their arrows charge against the enemy, i'm triying to put the last effort, but it is futile, the vikings and new FMAA crushed to my army in the forest. The steppe cavalry was pursuing to peasants, they are the only survivors, but now all the enemy army are coming: after two succesful charges against peasants and FMAA, the SC are very tired and the huge army arrive, i decide put in the way to Sweden to these brave units.




Consequence: near 700 men lost, 8 units of crack VGs lost of a total for all my army of 25 VG (that is, 25%) and i can't make more VG, 4 units of KTs with a general of 5 stars. Very very painful defeat.

[antisocialmunky]

I have a full Byzantine Army which an english Crusade routed by charging one unit of Hungarian Elite HA into one unit of BI and causing a chain rout against my 6 star general. That was really lame.

[matteus the inbred]

French v Spanish, roughly even numbers, i had the high ground. Spanish jinettes skirmished up close, my knights impetuously charged through my spears, total chaos, the Spanish feudal sergeant infantry arrived and my army fled the field shortly after, jinettes pursuing. Heir was dead, lost all but a coupla dozen mercenary druzhina, the Spanish casualties were about 100...

i've also had an entire 900-odd man Turkish army swept off the field by 14 Kats backed up by a rag-tag of a few hundred infantry causing a chain rout. one of those occasions where one just sits there making strangled noises and waiting for reality to re-assert itself.

probably the most embarrassing for pure foolishness was a bridge battle, Germans v Poles, i had a huge advantage in numbers and confidently charged across both bridges. my General charged some ballistas, got skewered, my cavalry ran away en masse pursued by some mounted x-bows and my infantry were quickly broken at the other bridge...
when i lose like this, it's always due to overconfidence and/or underestimation of the AI's troop quality.

[Scurvy]

i was danes vs spanish, and one unit of lancers swiped straith through my 4 units of vikings and killed my gen (lithuanian cav) my whole army (all remaining 11 units) chain routed and i go a kill total of 42 kill to 365 losses :(

[matteus the inbred]

a kill total of 42 kill to 365 losses

ouch, man! it's horrible looking at the kill bar and seeing it red from end to end...

i remember another one in VI, i landed a viking invasion force of huscarles and lansmenn on Pictish soil and took on a smaller army of Picts, archers and celts. i split my force and advanced uphill either side of the hill, only to get shot a lot more than expected and then charged by Celtic warriors. not ONE of my men made it home. lost the king, lost his heir, luckily had another heir come of age that very turn! learning the hard way that Vikings are good, but not invincible by any means.

[Just A Girl]

those viking huscarles. Are tough,
I usualy use the welsh,
And 1 unit of those things usualy plows through all my celtic warrior chappys.

Id love to tell you my worst defeat but i dont remember enough details :(

I know was either saxon huscarles things or the viking huscarles, and they totaly Decimated my army.

Im afrade i did not take notes :(

[Scurvy]

watch out for beserkers, normally theyd get wiped out against decent troops, i send a unit of kerns to hold them up for battle, they smahed thru them, and then rolled up my flank thru all my dartmen etc. not good watching, although i did kill them in end my army was finished :(

[matteus the inbred]

i'm horrible at using berserkers...always get them all killed. and huscarles of any sort are a total b*stard to fight. they're also a total b*stard to use against Irish skirmishers, hence my decision to retreat as described below!

i once got embarassingly thrashed without even fighting...my Viking King and his 600-strong army (with no cavalry) were besieging a castle in Ireland when 3,500 Irish jumped on them. i decided to retreat, found that my naval cover had been destroyed, and had to ransom the entire army for something like 25,000 florins...many red faces and empty pockets back in Hordaland, i can tell thee.

[Scurvy]

the worst is artillery lol, i dont know how many times iv run in minutes after my gen shot my a well aimed cannon-ball

amnd huscarles are cool but easy to shoot at :P

[rvg]

There was this one time when the Novgorod engaged my BI with Arbalesters....in melee...in a forest.

BI ran like schoolgirls..., my Treb Archers followed not long after.

[Martok]

I actually had a battle like this just a couple weeks ago. I was playing as the Portuguese in XL mod, Early period. I had decided to take Murcia, which was held by the Almos. I invaded with nearly a full stack, led by my 6-star general, who personally commanded a unit of Mounted Seargents. The rest of my army was comprised of 3 archers, 2 FMAA's, 3 Fuedal Seargents, and another unit of Mounted Seargents. My two sons with their royal knights also went with, as they had been studying the military arts under my general's tutelage, and had been eager to see their teacher in action (and hopefully gain some practical experience in the field as well). The Almoravids were defending with something like 650-700 men. They were led by Prince Ali, a 4-star general, with his younger brother Ahmad (a 2-star, if memory serves) accompanying him. He had with him 3 archers (2 Desert and one vanilla), a unit of Berber Camels, 2-3 Arab Infantry, 1 spearmen, and 3-4 AUM.

The Almos were lined up on a medium slope with some woods just behind and to their left side. I deployed my archers in front to start taking out their AUM's as quickly as possible, with my FMAA's and FS's on ready alert (since I knew Prince Ali would eventually tire of his men being shot at and charge me). My general and the other Mounted Seargents were to the right and a little behind the main formation, and I had my two boys stationed in the center, ready to rush in wherever help was needed. They were eager to fight, and it chaffed them that they weren't on the front lines. My crown prince had been in battle with their tutor once before, however, and had quickly (if reluctantly) realized that a certain amount of caution was often necessary in combat--and that those who are overly impetious all too often get themselves killed for little or no gain. It was a pity his younger brother didn't live long enough to learn that lesson for himself....

Initially, my general's battle plan worked well enough. My archers began firing volley after volley, and it wasn't long before the AUM started to drop. As hoped, Prince Ali ordered a majority of his army to attack, leaving their position on the hill. His AUM and spearmen charged down into the waiting arms of my feudal seargents, and then I immediately flanked their left side with my FMAA's. So far, so good.

Ali was no fool, however, which he quickly proved by sending his Berber Camels to harrass my right flank. This was a problem, given that my infantry already had their hands full dealing with the AUM (and in addition were now taking enemy fire from Prince Ali's archers). My general quickly realized he had no choice but to take both units of Mounted Seargents and personally hunt down the Berbers until they were destroyed and chased off the map. Leaving the bulk of the army under the command of my older son, he took off.

In the ensuing 30 seconds, everything went to straight to hell.

It turned out that my opponent was far more cunning that I had realized. For as soon as my general persued the Berber Camels past some woods, that's when Ali's brother Ahmad came bursting out with his Ghulam bodyguards, along with some Arab Infantry. My general was caught completely flat-footed and was struck down almost before he could utter an oath (no doubt cursing himself for making a rookie mistake). Most of the surviving mounted seargents were too shell-shocked at the general's death to even run away, and they were cut down as well.

My infantry (which had finally started to turn the tide against the AUM's) saw the general fall and immediately began to waver. My younger son, infuriated at the death of his teacher (whom he had held as an uncle), immediately charged into the fray in a mad attempt to exact vengance. Cursing, my crown prince charged in after him, knowing his little brother's recklessness would get himself killed unless he could flank Ahmad's bodyguards.

Alas, this is where Ali revealed his second unpleasant surprise: the Arab Infantry suddenly began throwing missiles at my men. One of them must have had exceptionally good aim, as my younger son suddenly slumped over in the saddle, dead before he'd even managed to close with Ahmad's bodyguards. With a cry of rage and grief, my crown prince now urged his horse to even greater speed, intent on riding down his brother's killers. Unfortunately, this was exactly what Prince Ahmad had been hoping for, as this allowed him to charge straight into the rear of his royal knights.

I don't think my older son ever saw the man that slayed him, not that it particularly mattered at this point. With his death, the surviving royal knights of both units suddenly despaired. They galloped from the field, yelling at the rest of the men as they rode past to do the same. Given that a good portion of the army had seen their general and both princes die in less than a minute, most of them needed very little encouragement to drop their arms and flee.

Great was the kingdom's mourning after that battle, and swift was its downfall. With the death of his sons and his best general (whom he had loved as a brother, as they had grown up in the castle together), the king fell into despair, and soon after died of a broken heart. He had no more heirs, and the nobles could not agree as to who should replace him on the throne...."


Ugh, what a horrible battle that was. In short, the reason I lost was because I was over-confident and had underestimated my opponent. I didn't bother to check that every enemy unit on the battlefield was accounted for before I attacked, thus setting up my general for an easy ambush when he went after the Berber camels. Almost as important, I had also forgotten that with the XL mod, VikingHorde had altered the abilities of some of the units in the game--notably, that Arab Infantry can now skirmish as well as melee! I'm pretty sure someone did indeed get a lucky shot off and kill my younger prince, as he was dead after the battle, but most of his royals knights were (miraculously) still alive.

In a strange way, it was still a fun battle, even though I lost (I also lost the game, as my king really did die a couple years afterwards). I like that the AI can still defeat me, even after all this time!

[Betito]

Danes, high period.

It was one of my first campaigns, and i didn't know the mechanics too well. The proof of this is that i expanded to the east, tasking all the steppes for myself (dumb, dumb mistake).

I had just conquered khazar and crimea, with my king and his 4 best princes —i had 5 heirs, but the one who wasnt here was a pervert, drunk, dumb... "man"—. khazar had a castle(no ring wall nor catapults), my army was my 5 royal knights(yes, another dumb mistake), some vikings, feudal sergeants and a couple of vanilla archers. The year was 1229...

You know what come next...

I still managed to kill loads of cavalry, becuase i dismounted my royalty into CFK, but, i ended up losing the battle, and almost the campaign, actually. A civil war came next, my economy went to bankrupt, and i didnt win the campaign... i didnt die, either, i was just another lousy faction

[Ludens]

I have suffered quite a few defeats, usually because of overconfidence or downright incompetence on my side, and sometimes because of unkillable Kataphraktoi princes. Oh, and once a high-valour unit of berserkes as well.

I recall a similar thread somewhere in the depths of the Mead Hall. Many interesting tales, especially of how peasants are not the same as Yari Ashigaru .

Edit: found it. It's exactly how bad are you? If you want to know how to suffer a chrushing defeat without even trying to, read Maelstrom's acount on page two.

[Odin]

English Early XL Mod.

I had decided to leave France alone and consolidate Britian, Ireland and Wales then look to the continent. I bribed the Welsh gaining the longbows and crushed the scotish by force of arms.

So I look at Ireland and arrogantly decided to allow my heirless king to lead the conquest. It was a long bloody fight, I could not get the Irish to move from thier superior defensive position and marched my longbowmen into range to soften them up.

Normally I would have danced a cav unit infront of them to bring them down from thier pearch but since all I had was the king I was aware of his vulnerability. The longbowmen get a few rounds off when the Irish come down in force. The entire Irish army commits to the charge....

I had never seen the AI do this before, normally a few melee units run down then back up once you pull out of range. Surprised I tried to hurry my spear units to the point of attack to soften the blow on the longbowmen, no luck. The longbow take the charge and fight admirably but cant hold, my spears do get thier and a fight ensues which I believe I can win as the down hill charge bonus was already absorbed.

I commit the kings knights to the right which was comprised of 2 dartmen units and the whole fight is a melee, the longbowmen break and run and the AI smartly disengages from thier pursuit and atacks my kings position( I believe it was still william, but its been a while). I select all and try to hit the dartmen so I can break my king free of the Melee, not becoming overwhelmed and surrounded.

The longbowmen rallied but did not make it back in time, the King fell, the fight went from bad to worse and needless to say my campaign was over as I had no heir. It was my most painful defeat only because I underestimated the AI. I had never seen it commit to a full all out charge, given the circumstances of my army it was the best chance it had for victory, and it was successful.

I wont claim to be the best MTW player but I have played this game for hundreds of hours and to this day I still respect the AI's ability to hand me my hat from time to time

[scotchedpommes]

Suffered several painful defeats mostly due to poor tactical decisions on my
part, however the most recent harsh defeat that comes to mind was in VI, as
the Welsh, I think it was. Two Royal Viking Huscarle units had landed in a
relatively undefended coastal province, and I brought up several units [Celtic
Warriors, some Horsemen, and one Prince] to prevent them from launching an
assault.

{At this time it should be said I was unaware of the Jedi status, as it were, of
Viking Huscarle units. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, they are
tough, and certainly stronger than I had expected then.}

Firstly they only brought one Prince's unit forward, [the other one standing some
distance away, unmoving] which clashed with Celtic Warriors. Moved another
unit of the same type around behind and charged them, then brought two units
of Horsemen down onto one of their flanks, fully expecting them to break. They
swiftly began massacring the Celts, although they did start to take a significant
number of casualties. This quickly became academic though, as my Horsemen
then routed, and when I brought my Prince into the Vikings' other flank they cut
his bodyguard down too. When the Vikings' numbers were reduced so much so
as to make it an even fight, the other Viking Prince simply waded in to the rallied
Horsemen and Celts that were still engaged and put paid to any hopes of
salvaging some kind of victory.

[Roark]

My most painful defeat was as the Scots, against the Northumbrians. My Pictish allies betrayed me and sent 4 units of Berserkers into the rear of my army (which was busy carving up the Northumbrians). Needless to say, I was butchered.

[Cowhead418]

There is one battle that sticks out in my mind. I don't remember too much of the specific details of the battle, only that I was enraged afterwards.

I remember fighting a crucial bridge battle against who I believe was the HRE. I don't really remember who I was playing as but I think I was the Russians. I had about a 700 men quality army defending a key point against some few thousand German troops. My men fought valiantly and broke the enemy's first wave. I made a mistake and pursued to prevent their good quality troops from re-grouping. My troops rushed across the bridge and before they got far the enemy's reinforcements approached.

I quickly organized my army and engaged the fresh enemy soldiers. I had brought nearly my entire army across the bridge but had left my general behind to prevent a mass rout if he were killed. My troops were gaining the upper hand and I saw the enemy troops were beginning to waver so I encouraged my men on to victory. Just as the enemy was about to break, one of my units routed and caused my other troops to waver. Soon after the rest of my line broke and ran like cowards. Rejuvenated by my army's cowardice, the enemy pursued and crushed my remaining force. I didn't even bother to ransom back the fools, I was so angry.

I also remember a time I lost an English campaign within the first 15 turns. It was on vanilla MTW and two of my heirs had become of age. I invaded Wales with my two Princes, my King, some archers, a Hobilar unit, and some regular spearmen. The rebels consisted of nearly all Longbowmen and situated themselves on a nice steep hill on all sides. Seeing as I had no choice, I foolishly charged up the hill with my Princes and King at the head of my troops. The Longbowmen cut down my Royal Knights but succumbed to my Cavalry after I engaged them in melee. The enemy had caused more casualties then I had dealt, but I figured my losses wouldn't hurt me too bad.

When I got back to the campaign map I realized that my two princes had both been struck by an arrow and slain on their suicidal charge up that fateful hill. My king was already around 55 years old and died of old age withing the next five turns. I had no heirs of proper age and my kingdom collapsed into chaos.

[Cowhead418]

My most painful defeat was as the Scots, against the Northumbrians. My Pictish allies betrayed me and sent 4 units of Berserkers into the rear of my army (which was busy carving up the Northumbrians). Needless to say, I was butchered.

That is just one reason why you should always let your allies engage the enemy first.

[Lanemerkel1]

when my 640 Byzantine Pronoiai Allagion lost a battle to 320 Rebel Steppe Cavalry

[Roark]

That is just one reason why you should always let your allies engage the enemy first.

Cheese alert!

I try not to exploit the game's weaknesses TOO much, squire...

[Cowhead418]

Cheese alert!

I try not to exploit the game's weaknesses TOO much, squire...

I understand, but if you're going to engage the enemy be sure to keep your flanks protected then. Plus, when I go into battle with an ally, I march my soldiers alongside his troops so that we can engage the enemy pretty much at the same time.

[Roark]

Yeah, me too. I like to maintain the feel of a "concerted effort" with my ally.

At this stage of my MTW obsession, though, I didn't even know that the AI could betray an alliance on the battlefield, so it was a nasty shock. My best army was destroyed by 48 half-naked maniacs. All of my strategic plans were set back by 10 years.

That's what I love about this game though... lots of surprises.

[gaijinalways]

I've had many, and I haven't even played recently! In the beginning, I remember having one campaign in the beginning where my king and two sons got killed in the same battle! Too overconfident and was not thinking that all my heirs were in one battle.

Other times, I have run troops too far from a higher position when I thought the enemy was in full rout. Suddenly they got their courage back or with help from some hidden attackers suddenly turned the tide, swamping my own soldiers.

One of the worst was a battle with my king near the back, and he was felled by a lucky catapault shot, with the catapault falling at the same time to another group of my RKs.

[matteus the inbred]

Ugh, what a horrible battle that was

great write-up though! the 'javelin' experience has accounted for more than one of my generals as well, always with disastrous consequences. on one occasion Slav Javs managed to kill 17 out of 20 royal knights in one volley including the commander.
haven't had one killed by a rock on the head yet, although i did that to a Sicilian general just last night...

[littlebktruck]

One of my favorites was the time that I started one with the Danes, Early, Normal. I read in the strategy guide where someone was able to take Sweden with just the king's royal knights.

I, unfortunately, wasn't.

Shortest campaign ever.

[Scurvy]

One of my favorites was the time that I started one with the Danes, Early, Normal. I read in the strategy guide where someone was able to take Sweden with just the king's royal knights.

I, unfortunately, wasn't.

Shortest campaign ever.

I must try that....

[drone]

One of my favorites was the time that I started one with the Danes, Early, Normal. I read in the strategy guide where someone was able to take Sweden with just the king's royal knights.

I, unfortunately, wasn't.

Shortest campaign ever.

I tried that out as well. The first time I did it didn't work out so well, but, hey, it's only one turn in. Started up another one, strung the enemy out a little more, and it worked out. Interesting solution to get around the problem of the combined Swedish/Norse rebels.

My most painful would be vanilla MTW, Danes, Early. One of my first campaigns. Early on in the game, I had no problems crushing my enemies with my vikings. Then I came up with the bright idea of invading Novgorod...

[Martok]

great write-up though! the 'javelin' experience has accounted for more than one of my generals as well, always with disastrous consequences. on one occasion Slav Javs managed to kill 17 out of 20 royal knights in one volley including the commander.

Thanks! Yeah, having fought both with (and against) units like Spanish Jinettes and Irish Kerns, I can safely say that this game has taught me a very healthy respect for skirmishers....

[matteus the inbred]

yeah, sending armies entirely composed of huscarles into Ireland in VI is a painful and chastening experience...

damn. i need a hedgehog smiley here, to represent what my huscarles looked like by the end of the battle.

[Ironside]

I tried that out as well. The first time I did it didn't work out so well, but, hey, it's only one turn in. Started up another one, strung the enemy out a little more, and it worked out. Interesting solution to get around the problem of the combined Swedish/Norse rebels.

The easiest way is to bribe them when they're stacked in Norway though.

I had one embarrising loss in my third campaign on MTW as the Danes.
My great, newly developed army consisting or arbalests, halbs, CMAA and some cav, led by some zero star general (had severe problems of getting several good generals in that campaign) was attacking some rebels in Preussia I think it was.
The rebels held a good position and my army ran basically without touching the enemy.
Gettting suspicious about the moral issue I found out that prioriticing away the church-line (my lands is getting Christian anyway) wasn't the smartest move.
I'm still suspicious that general valour gave a morale bonuses in MTW 1.0 because of the time it took me to find that out.

I'm not sure if I did really lose that battle, but it had a painful loss. Spanish (me) vs the Almo, both led by high star hiers. About halfway through the battle, my depleted knight unit charged his depleted ghulam unit. My unit had most men left. Not being able to send any reinforcements to that battle (they were busy elsewere), it went eventually down to a 1 vs 1 battle between his prince and mine. Of course, my prince died first

The most painful thing... ever for me was actually a victory. Being the Russians, the horde came hard and swiftly. Unable to withstand my greatest hier lost and fell back to the fort were he was stranded as I couldn't get enough men to free him, while he was protecting my flank. On the last turn of the siege I pull out my hier from the fort to retreat him from the province, so that he could be saved.
Imagen the horror when I find that the comp decided to assult the castle. Severly outnumbered, my men endures a heavy rain of arrows, deafeats several wall breaches (wooden walls) and wave after wave of enemy units, until he finally pulls back, broken. Both sides have taken severe casualities, but my men still holds the fort. My general is saved.

The next turn the fort falls, killing my great general.

The comp seems to have a high tendency to assult is only the garnision sallies. found that out afterwards.