Milan

[frogbeastegg]

Milan needs to be unlocked before you can play as them. To do this you can either complete a campaign (on any difficutly, long or short setting) with one of the five starting factions, or you can edit the preferences file. To do this open your Sega/M2TW folder/data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign, find the file called "descr_strat" and open it with wordpad. Now find the section which says

campaign      imperial_campaign
playable
   england
   france
   hre
   spain
   venice
end
unlockable
   sicily
   milan
   scotland
   byzantium
   russia
   moors
   turks
   egypt
   denmark
   portugal
   poland
   hungary
end
nonplayable
   papal_states
   aztecs
   mongols
   timurids
   slave
end

Change it so it reads

campaign      imperial_campaign
playable
   england
   france
   hre
   spain
   venice
   sicily
   milan
   scotland
   byzantium
   russia
   moors
   turks
   egypt
   denmark
   portugal
   poland
   hungary
end
nonplayable
   papal_states
   aztecs
   mongols
   timurids
   slave
end

[Debe2233]

Milan

Milan is a bit of a strange faction it doesn’t really put forward any major unique units and the units they have tend to be a bit lacking in power, however they do have the best crossbow men in the game, and the crossbow bolts make a sexy noise that makes me tingle down below so they’ve become one of my favourite factions.

Castles?!... who needs Castles….

Milan can live without creating castles… I know, I know sounds strange but until the top end of the castle tech tree they don’t get anything that useful… and their Militia like the other Italian factions are excellent, ok men at arms and feudal knights are useful for forming a backbone but I find that Italian Spear Militia tend to do just as well and they’re cheaper and easier to come by.

I tend to find my armies are composed of three major elements.

4-5 units of spearmen
4-5 units of Genoese Crossbow Militia
1-2 units of militia cavalry

Of course feudal knights on foot are better than spearmen and Genoese Crossbow men are better than their militia counterpart and feudal knights are better than militia cavalry. Problem is until you upgrade to a fortress feudal knights are hard to come by and Genoese crossbow men are top end. Just use the militia and throw more elite units in as required and as they become available.

Crossbow men pepper the enemy while they come towards you, when they charge your spearmen flank them with your cav and if your desperate throw your crossbow men into the fight (Genoese crossbowmen are more than capable in a fight) remember your crossbow men will likely have a longer range than their missile men (unless they’re also crossbow armed troops) but you’ll have more of them, make the enemy come to you!.

Campaign

Milan starts with two cities Milan and Genoa both in north Italy, within a turns march there are three other cities, Venice owned by Venice strangely enough, Bologna owned by the HRE and Florence which is rebel.

Milans main difficulty is that it starts in close proximity to possible enemies and theres not alot of room to expand.

Your main problem is going to be Venice when you start off it’s a matter of “when” not “if” they will attack and Venice is a days march away from Milan you wont have much warning other than a large Venice army knocking at your front door.

Ideally what you want to do first is either take Florence or if your feeling a tad more brave go straight for Venice! Florence makes a good castle as its in the centre of the northern Italy cities so you can use it to supply the surrounding cities with higher quality troops, while Venice can stay as a city and gives you access to east Italian waters and an excellent cash producing city.

Personally… leave Bologna the main reasons being you want to keep the HRE friendly for as long as possible and it’s the one way Sicily can attack, give it 10 turns and Sicily and HRE will be at war and Sicily will be trying to take Bologna, a pre-emptive on Bologna will put you at war with the HRE then Sicily will attack you then Venice will now doubt join in the fun. So leave it for now.

Bern is another possibility for expansion but again… don’t, it’s a castle north of Milan and taking it seems to put you at odds with the HRE and France.

A better route for expansion is to head by sea to the island forts of Ajaccio and Cagliar, these are easy to take and if you change them both to cities and build them up they can become real cash producers.

Once you’ve taken Venice (either as a pre-emptive or as retribution) and Sicily has taken Bologna go to war with Sicily as their army will have taken a beating to take the city, so take advantage and an ill defended Bologna and then push on and take control of Italy. When Venice loses Venice they tend to not bother you so much.

Once you’ve gained control of the whole of Italy (with the exception of Rome… unless your feeling a tad peeved with the pope of course) you will have some of the richest cities in the world and the ability to strike anywhere. And as if you needed another bonus you can beat anyone to a crusade as you can be in the holy lands in 4-3 turns from the south coast of Italy by boat, and dont forget the sexy crossbow bolt noises...

[cassiusdio]

Milan is an unusual faction in that you don't need castles to produce powerful combat units. It shares this feature in common with nearby Venice.


The forces

Italian Militia, and Italian Spear militia are perhaps the best militia units availiable to any faction, and give you a powerful edge in the early game. Also in your favour is the fact that they are militia and a certain number can be supported in cities for free, and the maintainance costs are generally low. This means that while your rivals might struggle to keep their feudal levies in the field, you can easily support a large military. Combine this with the fact that most of your settlements can be cities, and you will have a serious economic edge over your rivals.

Milan is also unusual in that their militia cavalry is roughly the equal of mailed knights, with the edge obviously going to the Knights, but again, as militia, their upkeep is low, and cities can support some for free.
The trump card in my opinion is the Genoese Crossbow militia. boasting excellent defence and a potent longranged missile attack, they can also hold their own in a melee

Many of the better late game troops are also produced in cities, the famiglia Ducale being the pinacle of Milanese heavy cavalry but easier to produce are the broken swords and their dismounted counterparts. they are only slightly inferior to feudal knights and their dismounted counterparts.

Gunpowder troops can also be trained in cities, so despite the fact that the feudal soldiers might be slightly superior, there is no real need to build castles at all, cities will provide you with all the wealth and soldiers that you need.

Starting Position

Milan is surrounded by potentially powerful enemies from the start of the game, with only limited room for expansion. you will innevitable find yourself at war with one or more of your neighbours sooner rather than later.
The factions 2 cities are situated in one of the wealthiest areas, however, so rather than looking upon the relatively weak starting position as a problem, you should look at it as an opportunity

Opening moves

The city of florence is within easy striking distance and should be claimed from as early as possible, then you should look at the castles of Ajacio and Cagliari on the islands to the south of Genoa. I swiftly changed these to towns for the extra revenue, and it payed off in the long run. these 5 cities will provide you with a solid foundation from which to build your empire.

Next Steps

The two logical next steps are to eliminate the Sicilians and the Venetians. the Sicilians have a very advantageous strategic position, while the venetians are very wealthy, Venice itself is a prize worth fighting a war over.
these moves might attract the ire of the HRE but in the early game they are not a tremendous threat, its the other italians that you have to worry about.

Once sicily and venice are eliminated (you only really need to take Venice to limit the venetians power.

With Italy under your control, and hopefully having taken steps to appease the pope the direction you strike next is entirely up to you. Sicily will provide a good stepping stone into africa, whileif you advance into the balkans and attempt to destroy the venetians you will come into contact with more potential enemies. Innevitably you will want to fight against the Byzantines and the former venetian holdings will provide a good stepping stone.

Equally viable are seizing the french coastal towns and attempting to dominate the western mediterranean, but, as i have already said, once italy is yours, you can go anywhere you want, since you will literally occupy the center of the map

[cassiusdio]

Naval power

The kingdom of milan is both cursed and blessed by the large number of coastal settlements. Blessed in that as cities they will generate a huge amount of revinue, cursed in that as coastal cities they are vulnerable to sieges, and naval blokades will drastically hurt your income. As an example in my current game (M/M) the city of genoa nets me a fairly hefty 3800 gold per turn, this drops to 1900-2000 should i be unfortunate enough to suffer a blokade. obviously then, maintaining a fleet to defend your coastal ports is essential.

The starting milanese ships are the galley and war galley. while not outstanding combat ships individually, it is possible to swiftly build up a good sized force to defend your assets. in the later game, when gunpowder becomes availiable you gain access to more potent ships.

Naval Strategy

Wars can be a costly enterprise, the need to maintain a large military to fight the wars, and the loss of revinue through broken trade pacts, sieges and blokades can really hurt you, but it can also hurt your enemies. A swift naval blokade can bring your enemies to the negociating table to offer favourable terms for a ceasefire, while possessing a strong navy can prevent an enemy doing the same to you. clearly a navy is a vital tool in your political arsenal.

Navies also present you with greater tactical flexibility for your armies. a vital land route might be blocked by an enemy force, but it is faster to move armies by sea, and you avoid the possibility of ambushes and costly bridge battles. more importantly, the increased speed with which sea borne forces can be moved means that while your enemy might be rushing his armies to the front, you can slip in behind and ravage his cities, with little risk of any intervention by a large army that has moved towards your cities.

Balancing Army and Navy

Navies don't come without a cost, training and maintenance is expensive, but milan is blessed with both a potentially very strong economy, and strong militia troops. they are both cheap to maintain, and you can maintain multiple units for free. as far as city defence goes your free units will normally be sufficient to thwart all but the most determined of assaults. even considering this, however, it is very hard to maintain more than 2-3 full armies, and a strong navy. but using the navy to rapidly redeploy forces can go a long way towards giving you a powerful military edge

War versus Sicily, an example

War with sicily is simply a matter of when, not if a campaign will begin, and you can swiftly deal with them, swiftly as in 5-6 turns...

The first step is to make sure you have an edequate network of agents to keep track of enemy movements, diplomats and priests will suffice, but spy's are certainly preferable.

The second step is to make sure you have an army with several siege engines and a large amount of infantry, militia and spear militia will do, since you won't actually be fighting any pitched battles.

when you have an army ready to go blokade either naples or palermo to start hostilities, a large 'donation' to the papacy will ensure he does not interfere in this war.
lacking any Navy itself (you should ruthlessly destroy enemy ships) Sicily will move its army by land, a 3-4 turn march from naples, much longer from Palermo. when their forces are sufficiently distant, land your army at palermo, and swiftly sieze it. Palermo is a much better target since, as a well developed castle, it is much easier to defend from any counter attacks. you should storm the small garrison immediately, and, leaving only damaged units necesary to prevent it revolting, load your army back on to the boats. the next target is Naples, at most 2 turns sailing.

It is quite possible that sicily has by this time reached bologna, and if it is your possession laid siege to it, don't be concerned, because Naples is considerably easier to take than Palermo. land your troops, and storm the city immediately. wth the loss of the city, any forces the sicilians have in the field will revert to being rebels, and can be dealt with at your leasure.

Obviously this is an idealised campaign, but i have tried it 3 times, each time resulting in success. It should not be too hard to use similar tactics against other nations, a naval campaign against the Moors for example, or the french mediterranean holdings. in essence, don't neglect your navy

[Kekvit Irae]

I have been playing Milan recently, and I absolutely love it.

Militia Units or Combat Units?
While Debe2233 puts up a compelling argument against building castles, the use of castles should not be underestimated, especially with the Milanese. Genoa and Milan both start out as Cities. Keep them that way. You'll need one (preferably Genoa) for a Merchant's Guild and one (again, preferably Milan) for the Theologians Guild. Start building your town guard buildings until you get the Genoese Crossbow Militia (first in Milan due to the slow growth of Genoa). These militia units are the most powerful militia units you'll find in the Catholic kingdom. 12 missile attack, and 14 defense. AND they can be used as free upkeep

When you have a sizable army, seize Bern (Switzerland's castle). Occupy and keep Bern a castle so you can upgrade to fortress level and beyond sooner. With Bern snuggly in your hands, you can start building one of the ultimate early foot troops: Genoese Crossbowmen. These powerhouses have 14 missile attack (as opposed to 12) and 16 defense (versus the 14 of militia), making them the most powerful non-gunpowder missile foot troops in the game. Their melee attack has also been upgraded so they can defend castle walls with more ease. Use these units in your eventual conquer of the world.

However, because of the ability of Free Upkeep you get from the militia crossbowmen in towns, you will only need two castles in your entire game: Bern and Gaza (Egypt). Bern for the conquest of Europe, and Gaza for the conquest of the Holy Land. Every other castle is optional, and is suggested you convert into a town for more money. Use Bern and Gaza to churn out Genoese Crossbowmen and Feudal (both mounted and dismounted) Knights.

[Debe2233]

Yup, a couple of castles is all you need, and really only for the crossbow men.

dismounted knights are good but you get dismounted broken lancers at the largest city wall and a heavy cav unit from the largest town hall building (cant remeber their name... something ducal)

Milans major downfall is it takes along time to tech to these units so for a good half the game you'll be stuck with militia.

[comareddin]

Many people have written excellent strategies while playing with the Milanese. I will just hand out a few tips that helped my tremendously. I play only VH/VH and IMHO this faction is the easiest after the English.

The main thing is your economic strength. You do not need any castles. Just field more militia than your opponent and you are set. If there is some lack of armies, you can always hire some mercenary troops. If you have a nice backbone of settlements, you will not run out of money because you will be paying far less upkeep than many of your opponents.

First thing I do with a Milan campaign is to conquer Florence. In one of my games Papal States conquered it which really pissed me off. With that you have three settlements in Italy.

Next thing to do is to send a permanent diplomat to Rome and start offering some gift money every turn, and keep your relationship with them at perfect. Around this time conquer Venice and then move south to conquer Sicily. If you keep your relationship with Vatican at a perfect level, you will not be excommunicated.

After this point my games differ from each other. Sometimes I set of to conquer Africa, sometimes France or HRE. One thing doesn't change though and that is a suitable army always conquers the island provinces.

After you conquer those islands it is a wise choice to leave permanent diplomats near Byzantine, Egyptian and if situation demands it, Turkish capitals to keep your relationship with them at high levels so your east Mediterranean trade will not be disrupted with unnecessary blockades and wars.

Sending a ship of 2-3 priests to Africa is a wise choice as those guys will become high piety in no time. If they turn into heretics... well that is a problem Moors will have to deal with. In one game I always had 7-9 cardinals that belonged to my faction. This guaranteed me the Papal elections which in turn meant less contribution to Vatican.

As a general tip, do not leave your generals rotting in your cities. Kill of those rebels with adequate armies (not overwhelming armies so your troops and general will get more experience) and do not forget to build those watchtowers. It really does make a difference in your campaign when you have a good vision of your borders.

[PseRamesses]

Besides all excellent posts and different strategies in this thread I might add a few quirks:
*Buy Bologna from the HRE. On M/M it will take some 5-6k over 5-10 turns to get it.
*Take Florence and launch a crusade on Tunis taking Corsica and Sardinia on the way.

[KHPike]

If possible, secure an alliance with the Papal States. This together with continued pacifying of the Pope will ensure you have a decent if somewhat temporary edge over your neighbours in the game.

I also find Genoese Crossbows to be excellent headhunters. Thanks to the passive AI bug, I frequently spam 5 of them on the general's unit. This combined with the way the AI arranges its armies in the center helps rack up the casualties while creating havoc among the army's elite troops.

[Caelus]

I’ve been playing with Milan lately, and they are probably my favorite Italian faction. This is what I have found most workable so far. Sorry if I repeat things others have said.

Overview:

The Milanese are in my opinion the most Italian of the Italian factions, in that they are the least reliant on castle troops and have the best militia.

If you like crossbows, you’ll love Milan. The Genoese crossbow is the best crossbow unit in the game. It has a very long range, and is very powerful. In addition they are quite effective in hand-to-hand combat, meaning you can safely field huge numbers of then without worrying about being overwhelmed by a strong mêlée infantry force (large cavalry forces would still be a problem, but could be dealt with). The crossbow militia is almost as good, so they can be used in professional offensive armies. They are also cheap and expendable.

They have all the standard European castle units (sergeant spearmen/armored sergeants, mailed/feudal knights), except instead of chivalric knights they have men-at-arms. This means that although you should probably base your army off militia, you can still use castle produced armies if you want to.

You’ll want to make it a point to tech up to Famiglia Ducale (available at the highest town hall building) and Genoese crossbowmen (castle version, available at fortress, with I believe a level three archery range). In the tests I’ve done Famiglia Ducale beat all French heavy cavalry except Lancers.

Strategy:

War with Sicily is inevitable, and Sicily in on your strategic “back door”, so I would make a point of destroying them as the first thing. In order to do this you must secure the support of the Pope. Send your diplomat right away and offer an alliance with trade rights and map information. This should give you a good favor rating which will be important in getting him to look the other way when you savagely and unprovokedly attack Sicily.

From the first turn you should be assembling as large a force as you can muster quickly, using mercenaries if necessary. Then send your army on board your fleet towards Palermo, bringing your spy along.

The Sicilians will probably be sailing to Tunis with their main army. This should leave Palermo and Naples lightly defended. Land off the shore of Palermo and have your spy infiltrate the castle. He may fail in his infiltration or may fail to open the gates, if so it’s still OK. Assault the castle rapidly, and then leave only a small garrison. However DO NOT attack until you have a high favor with the Pope. You may need to make a “donation” to the Vatican to assure this.

Once you have Palermo immediately sail to Naples and assault it in the same manner.

Crusader trickery: at some point, either before or after taking Palermo, you may want to ask for a crusade against Tunis. This has several advantages
1) It will prevent the Pope from calling a crusade against you in the event you do get excommunicated.
2) It will help rebuild your Papal favor after crushing Sicily (something the Pope will ask you not to do).
3) It will give you the advantages of crusading (experience, character traits etc.) without leaving your general sector or getting embroiled in war with eastern powers.
4) It will give you breathing time before crusades are called against eastern targets (which can be expensive).

Do not join the crusade until you have taken Naples and eliminated the Sicilians.

This way you can rapidly remove the faction which would otherwise be a constant thorn in your side quickly, and still have the Pope love you!

Speed is of the essence here, as you want to eliminate the Sicilians before they can expand beyond Palermo and Naples.

With command of Naples, Palermo, Milan, Genoa, Tunis and perhaps Florence, you should be making loads of money. Now send a diplomat to Bologna and ask the Kaiser to give up the city for six payments of 5000 florins. With some bargaining they should agree, and you want the city without going to war with the Reich.

Now you probably go after Venice. With control of all of Italy (except Rome) you can move in any direction you want.

Diplomacy:

You may want to ally yourself with the HRE before asking for Bologna, as this should make him more likely to agree. On the other hand if he refuses you may want to take it by force, in which case having been allied would have been a mistake. Ideally he will agree, in which case being his ally will be in your best interest. If you choose to make this alliance, try to make it while still at peace with Sicily.

Tactics:

The core of your army is your crossbowmen, of which you should have anywhere from six to twelve in a full stack (although twelve in extreme).
They are very competent in mêlée, so keep them in front with skirmish mode off. Behind them have a solid line of infantry, and cavalry behind the infantry. You may want to include a Carroccio standard and artillery.

The idea is to force the opponent into a dilemma: either stand there and get shot to pieces, or advance. If they advance they will more than likely not advance as a solid line (even as a human player it is hard to get your units to advanced side by side, they usually stagger), and thus the leading units will be caught in crossfire. Even if they can get past the hail of bolts and line of sword wielding crossbowmen, they will have to face a line of spearmen, by this time demoralized and beaten up. If they charge with cavalry, the crossbowmen will take the momentum, allowing your spearmen to do their stabby work.

In addition you may send some crossbows to the enemies flank and put down enfilade.

The cavalry can be used for flanking, but its main role is chasing routers. However keep at least three or four in a stack for tactical flexibility.

I hope this is clear.

[Si GeeNa]

How quickly the strategic picture changes in North Italy.

In one of those long drawn out struggles against Venice, my Milan has HRE and the Pope among allies. The Venetians have been knocking on Milan's door every other turn and I have been turning in far too many heroic victories for my liking.

Having turned away the latest incursion, Venice proceeded to siege Bologna instead of Milan. I ride with my ramshackle units to support the defence of my HRE allies. The turn after I place my stack next to Bologna, the Venetian stack entered it.

I have no idea what has happened. Obviously a battle has not taken place for the stack in Bologna looks to be complete. (HRE also had a complete stack within the city prior to this movement.)

I think the crafty Venetians had broker a good deal, they had sieged Bologna and subsequently offered to "buy" it over.

My previous safe city of Florence is now exposed with a Venetian Bologna. In the strategic consideration previously, I only had to worry about the defence of Milan. With the current development, I have to concern myself with possible attacks on both Milan and Florence from Venice and Bologna.

The immense enjoyment of it all...

[Zinian]

First time poster here, and somewhat of a Milan fan. (Only so long as you are Milan... ) Anyways. My general strategy with Milan consists of taking Florence on the 2nd or 3rd turn, and then converting it to a castle. Cagliari and the other island province off the coast are too isolated IMHO to use as "hard core" troop producers. Also, they can generate MASSIVE income if you have trade rights with France Spain and the Moors.

Keep a diplomat sitting on Rome, and get Rome to ally with you any way you can. If the Pope is angry at you for any reason, bribe him.
Congratulations! Now, any faction that attacks you just about anywhere on the Italian providences will seriously tick off the Pope, and become excommunicated. Hold off Venice until this occurs, then hit them with everything you've got. Also, choose to ally with the HRE so that way Heinrich doesn't decide to attack you instead of Venice.

Also remember that way with Sicily, Venice and the HRE is a matter of when, not if. If you can, secure all of modern-day Italy before backstabbing the Pope to take Rome. Also be sure to keep several spies flitting around France to make sure they choose only to trade with you, not attack you. If you take Bern, you can hold them off rather handily, although beware troops coming across the coast from Marseilles(spelling?).

Once Gunpowder opens up, you can really shine. The Monster Ribault is one of the funniest things I've ever used, and fully capable of routing entire armies if you are fighting a bridge battle. Musketeers behind groups of men at arms is my general strat in endgame.

Good luck, and keep your x-bows at the ready!

[Motep]

My military is dine up mostly in cities, though I get the occasional castle to boost up my military might. I start by allying with HRE, Venice, Sicily, and Pope (if I can. They usally do right off the abt for map info and small tribute), taking Florence. Then I take the islands to the west. I chill for a few turns, building my might. Then I steamroll venice untill the pope says stop, then I leave them be, for by that time, they are pushed to 1-3 places. (I bypass armies on the road, and deal with them once in the town...I am good with sieges). Then I build up till the first crusade, and then I strike the holy land with alot I got, I set up a good base there. Then I strike Sicliy and finish Venice. Just go on from there, watch out for the timurds, they are mean.

[Maltz]

Here are my starting moves on VH/VH. By turn 17 I have 10 regions and a good outlook for conquest.

Alliance: Ally with Venice, HRE, then the Pope - pretty much the standard "ally with everyone" to sell alliance, trade rights, and maps. I skipped Scotland, Poland, Turks, Moors, Egypt and Portugal to avoid having to cancel alliance later.

Conquest order:

(1) Take Fluorence, then the two islands. (army 1)
(2) Assassinate 2 Sicily family members. Take southern Italy. (army 1)
(3a) Assassinate Pope to get high Pope rating from election. Call crusade on Tunis. Start counter-attacking Moors. (army 1)
(3b) Assassinate 4 Venice family members. Take Venice (army 2).
(4) Assassinate 3 HRE family members. Take Bologna. (army 2)

Italy united! (except Rome, of course)
Reputation: Reliable
Overall ranking: 1st
Military ranking: 1st

I was invaded twice:

At turn 4 or so, Sicily tried to invade me with 8 units. I blocked its advance with my ships first, then trapped their ship in between the two islands when it was foolish enough to end its turn there. No more threat!

At turn 7 or so, Moors was ready to invade me from the sea. Sunk their troop-carrying ships. After losing the castle along Northern Africa, Moors then allied with my ally France to force a truce. When I attack Moors again, France broke our alliance - we know who is coming down next with Moors!

Milan's strength:
(1) Controls the Pope (by assassination). I called crusade on Turn 9 (and made it on Turn 11).
(2) Very good family members with maturing sons.
(3) Very cheap and useful spear militia (almost as good as merc spearmen). Along with Merc crossbowmen and mailed knights from islands, initial conquests were very easy.

[Iberia Auxilia]

I saw some arguments about castles and cities for Italian militia and castle combat units. For me I prefer to have at least one castle on the land. I usually convert Florence into a castle and it makes you feel secure by having a castle near your capital. And you can easily handle any invasions from both HRE and Hungary or other eastern factions. And dismounted feudal knights should not be underestimated. They have very good morale, good stamina, and can hold the line as second line troops. I usually use Armored sergeants as screening troops for absorbing cavalry charges and preventing the devastating charges into dis. feudal knights. Man at arms, should be used as cheap troops when you lose one battle after another and you are relatively poor. I like dis. feudal knights more. If you got Tunis, you are likely to get Knights Hospitallers too. Don't underestimate order knights. And swordsmen guild are available only to castles with them you can equip your militia units with better spears and swords. For Famiglia Ducale and Broken lances, they should be used aganist swordsmen. And feudal knights should be used against archers and xbows as they have Shield armour and are better than shield bearing man-at-arms. Milan have its G crossbow militia and G xbow as unique units. They don't have any better units than normal medieval units like feudal knights in castles. But these castle armies will hold your lines when you are outnumbered even 2: 5. I won a heroic victory using my feudal army which have besiege Meskersh ( a city in north africa, I know a wrong spelling) and have won another victory against Spanish invading force and again won 2 full stack Spanish army with 2: 5 odds!!! In conclusion, don't underestimate the Feudal armies and City/ Castle mutuality is still needed for Milan.