Out of character thread III

[TinCow]

Yes, theoretically the Crusade could conquer everything between Zagreb and Jerusalem, but that's unlikely to happen. I forsee a long march through Byzantine lands followed by the conquest of a few castles in Muslim lands before taking Jerusalem. The choice of which settlements to take will have to be carefully made, because they will likely be isolated and will only be able to rely on their own resources for support. I don't think anyone will want to hang around a dilapidated motte and bailey with nothing more than peasants to hold the walls against the heathen hordes.

[FactionHeir]

Looks like the crusading edicts both failed but their accompanying edicts passed, meaning that they still failed as they state that they only come into effect if the crusading edicts are passed.

This means in this emergency session, only the OOC charter amendment passed

[econ21]

Out of curiosity, I have added up the votes so far. It's close, but it looks as if TC's crusade is a go.

EDIT: Sorry factionheir - my first attempt at tallying the votes forgot the Emperor's influence.

[FactionHeir]

[Kagemusha]

I wouldnt eat the cow before its butchered.There are still Austrians and Franconians that havent voted.

[TinCow]

Since E1.6 and E1.7 both passed and overlap, E1.7 should overrule E1.6 since it had more votes. So it looks like the result is E1.1 and E1.7, which I think is a nice compromise and a totally workable result.

Oh, and not that it matters for the result, but the correct influence bonus for me is +4. +1 for Count, +1 for Chancellor, +1 for 6 piety, +1 for 6 loyalty.

[StoneCold]

Looks like it. Btw, are priests going to be sent along with the crusade to help convert the land? Will make controlling the captured cities easier I think.

Hmm, Econ, is it wise to total up the votes before the voting is closed? I thought usual voting practice is to tally the votes when the vote is closed?

[TinCow]

If possible, I will put a few with the stack. Hopefully I will be able to assemble the entire Crusade with the few turns remaining in my Chancellorship. The next Chancellor will be the one who will send us on our way.

[Kagemusha]

I think that vote tallying will give impression to the people that the voting is actually over,when its not. I must say that im really not happy how this thing played out. But then that is just my opinion. I think when we start looking each turn how to keep ourselves from winning the campaign not so soon,infact we will drain all the fun out from this game.

[StoneCold]

I don't think it is keeping yourselves from winning but more of to let the AI have a chance to develop more advance units to fight against you. As I see it now, HRE is steamrolling most factions and most everyone still using their basic troops. Milan was supposed to be one of the better starting factions around and they got seriously steamrolled that I don't think they will ever be a threat again. I would like to see more advance units in battle and at least face the Mongols before you guys gain victory.

[FactionHeir]

BTW, about TC's note on changing game mechanics for characters, should we still add it into a separate poll for this emergency session? (as its OOC)

[Kagemusha]

Well issuing money to the factions and sending this army to Crusade with many of our Generals will surely help the AI. But i dont think we should start acting like simple persons inside character,just so we could fabricate the campaign so we can play longer. As i have sayed many times before.All we have to would be to leave Rome alone and we could play as long as we like. Have you guys actually for example fought the Mongols in the campaign? If we would have two household armies facing the Mongol Horde in the East,we would be beaten back half way back from the East before,we could stop the horde.

[FactionHeir]

A fourth issue is leadership of the crusade. I propose that Mandorf, as Chancellor, should have responsibility for day to day operations. We should give thought to one of us running for Chancellor at the next Diet, so as to facillitate our activities. Perhaps Duke Dietrich or a second term for Count Mandorf? In terms of any battles, I believe as Prince, I am the natural leader but propose we should alternate command - perhaps starting with me and then moving to other generals by their command rank.

You'll be emperor during the next term so aren't you automatically chancellor? (unless GH somehow manages to survive another 12 (life) years from now)

[econ21]

You'll be emperor during the next term so aren't you automatically chancellor? (unless GH somehow manages to survive another 12(life) years from now)

IIRC, character's age one year every two turns. So GH should be a bit longer yet. And Henry does not have to stand for Chancellor as soon as he's Emperor.

I think that vote tallying will give impression to the people that the voting is actually over,when its not.

The reason for the provisional tally - which I have done before on occasion - is that adding up the votes takes a fair amount of time. And I can make mistakes. I would rather make a start on it now, get any daft mistakes ironed out and then TC can start playing straight away tonight without any false starts. I confess I am impatient - I think PBMs are like (ancedotal) sharks; they move or they die.

We have 16 votes in; we had 17 at the last Diet elections. We may get one or two more, but I doubt any of them will be deterred by my tally which is clearly stated to be provisional. Tallying public votes is nothing people could not do on their own.

I must say that im really not happy how this thing played out. But then that is just my opinion. I think when we start looking each turn how to keep ourselves from winning the campaign not so soon,infact we will drain all the fun out from this game.

Opinions do differ - I think setting up a Crusade Kingdom will greatly add to this PBM and now seems as good a time as any to do it (in character to atone; OOC to keep up the challenge). I agree too much discussion out of character about manipulating the game risks draining the game of fun. But there's a trade off between immersion and inclusivity. TC came up with the crusade idea and I agreed it would be a fun thing to do. I thought we should just do it without edicts etc, but TC wanted to include everyone in the decisionmaking and given the very dividied opinions on the issue, that was wise.

I would say give the crusade a chance. So far, we have a converted firebrand, an opportunistic Prince and a reluctant veteran saddling up together; it should be a interesting.

One of TCs ideas was to get through the next Diet (ie next 10 turns) fairly quickly - we won't be conquering much anyway. This will give the AI a chance to build up and some avatars to grow up. As apparently, no other crusaders are going to be standing, if Henry stands for Chancellor, running through the next 10 turns swiftly would be the OOC reason for it.

[FactionHeir]

BTW, since we are advancing at quite a pace in the PBM, I was wondering whether ex-chancellor votes should be forever. I was considering that only the last 2, max 3 ex-chancellors should get the extra +1 influence as this kind of influence does fade over time. This way votes are also more even.

Oh, and econ21, you can run for chancellor this time and then use your priviledge for a second term :)

[OverKnight]

econ: Otto's stat line after the marriage is 4-1d-10-3. His influence, by my tally, should be +4.

I can understand concerns about game balance, but the Crusade has already made the game more interesting for me. I'm sure once we get rolling it should add some new dynamics to the game and role-playing opportunities.

If we play it out and some concerns arise or continue, it will make for some interesting Diet discussions.

Edit: Thanks econ.

[ArchdukeEvan]

when the Crusade reaches it's destination... will the lands there form another house?... or be ruled by the generals that captured them?
i belive in real life each city was a seperate land... but how are we going to manage ours?

just curious

[FactionHeir]

According to the discussion in the crusader section, there will be an aim to capture 5 settlements, 1 for each house and 1 for the pope.

[Stuperman]

are we gonna try and limit the communication between crusaders and the Diet once they get far away? i.e. hit asia minor. It would be more realistic, but could lead to some nasty gameplay, re-enforcements wise.

[FactionHeir]

I think so. This is why there is a crusader council. Also, chancellor will only move crusaders the way they want to and otherwise just control the homelands in europe.

[StoneCold]

I dun think reinforcement is expected from the main empire. From what I understand, once the original crusade leave, any force will be hired on the way or recruited from captured settlement by the Crusaders.

[FactionHeir]

Nice little story Otto, really portrayed Elsebeth's lack of manners :D
tbh though, you were too chivalrous in the talk. You should have been more dreadful!
Anyway, since you want to become chivalrous, I guess that was needed eh?

Kinda sad though, now only Günther is dreadful. We need more dread knights!

[StoneCold]

yes, nice story. But with Max and Otto gone. Who will control Barvaria? From what I understand Gerhard is not active at the moment.

[OverKnight]

FH - Next time I'll have Otto slap her back if it makes you happy. He was blunt with her, and he only has the one dread, so I feel it's an accurate portrayal.

Edit: I'm sure Gerhard will be given to an active player after the voting is closed. It's a risk, but either way it'll add to RP. Otto's a little screwed, if he goes, he's selfish for leaving Bavaria to an untested Knight, if he stays he's a power mad social climber with no concern for his soul. But it's no more than he deserves.

[FactionHeir]

After some discussion with econ, he encouraged me to post my thoughts on medifix that is currently used for this PBM.

please find my stance below:

I've been looking again at the medifix change log and found that a lot of the changes are actually to grant generals good traits faster and bad traits almost never. Although this is nice, it is also quite...drastic in doing so (for example some chances for bad traits were reduced to 1 or 0% from 5%)

Also, since I've in the past few days been working on tweaking my own character traits quite a lot, I'm almost inclined to say that mine would be better than medifix.
That is, I already had all the fixes it has included although not as drastic (only 2-3% instead of 1 or 0%) and also have fixed a range of other things today, including triggers for every single princess trait and including the wife traits in the sons and daughters, so that a son from WifeIsWise 3 at least has a chance of being intelligent instead of being not affected at all.
Also added a lot of good (and bad) traits that can be given upon birth for true children only (as you need to wait ages for them to mature, they start with more traits now, but both good and bad in roughly equal chance)
In addition, each princess benefits or does not benefit from almost every trait her father and mother had and generally have a small chance for every trait on spawning, so there is actually a chance of seeing princesses with many traits in late game especially.

While my ancillary file also fixes a lot, in terms of agents suddenly getting marco polo or some such, it doesn't fix that much more than medifix, only a bit more.

So I wonder whether you would like to have a look at my character traits file and see how you like it (you can load it into any game as those work retroactively) and whether it would be better suited for the PBM than medifix which fixes much less and much too subjectively imo.

Cheers!

[StoneCold]

Haha, although I also wished that Otto remains a dread knight though...

[FactionHeir]

GH, I really liked your battle report, great writing. Kind of feeling sad for Heinrich now. Figure his comrade in arms might have been among the "healed" bodyguard though post battle?

[OverKnight]

GH, I was impressed as well. A nice intertwining of triumph and melancholy. Our unfinished goals drive us, but what happens when we do finally achieve them? Is it worth the cost?

Can't wait for the final encounter between Gregory and the Emperor. Hopefully a hairshirt will be involved.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Thanks for the response guys.

Can't wait for the final encounter between Gregory and the Emperor. Hopefully a hairshirt will be involved.

Well, when I saw what happened to Gregory and how he fell without me being anywhere involved, I knew I'd need to write another story to finish it up. I want him to die on my own terms.

And yes, there may be a hairshirt involved.

[Ituralde]

Alright, I'm back from my trip and it has been quite exhausting, physically, and psychological.
It seems like I have a lot of catching up to do. Is it too late to join the Crusade yet? Too bad that it passed, I would still have preffered a 'real' Crusade to happen. Taking the True Cross with you and all that stuff.

Maybe Leopold stays home, tries to get authorization from the Pope and then overtakes you lame suckers!

Anyways, I'll try to get all the reading needed, but I will be a little busy next weekend so it might take some time.

Cheers!

Ituralde